• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Vijay TV's Anti Hindu posture - Please register your protest in a Peaceful way

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh, yes, you are. You are promoting what 'true christianity' is, by pointing out what it is not. You have even quoted from the Bible. We do not follow the Bible in Hinduism.

I have requested kindly not to post like that again. If you disregard and post, I will have no other option but to remove it.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri nageshmahadevan Ji,

While we allow proper discussions about other religions in this Forum, this Forum is not the place to promote the tenets of any other religion other than Hinduism.

Please refrain from posting like this in the future. Thank you.

Regards,
KRS

I was only exposing the hypocrisy of one people group. I was not promoting any tenets here.

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the free link. I would comment (if needed) after I complete that one.

You are forewarned, anyone who thought the Vijay TV program was in bad taste will find this movie downright repugnant. Stay away if you are not progressive in outlook.


I am not against debates. But India is not America where you can not fool people by showing serials. US is a developed country.

Which America are you talking about?

What I saw in Vijay TV can easily be characterized as highly intellectual compared to what is shown on prime time TV in the U.S. Developed in financial terms does not mean they are developed in outlook.

For MGR and JJ in TN we have had Ronald Reagan and we still have Arnold in California. At worst MGR or JJ could only mess up TN. But the politicians in US have the power to mess up the whole world.

What if the host of the show is Christian? I am sure you are aware of Thiruvalluvar's advice about determining the merit based on what is said and not who is saying it.

Personally, I found the host quite even handed. He challenged both sides and gave equal opportunities to both the sides. If you really think our TN people are swayed easily by what they see on TV, then I would say that we must promote more shows like this one than the 1/2 hour prime time serials that routinely depict women in bad light.

I am very upset with this type of silly protests....
 
I think that this whole affair is not thought through by some in a deep manner.

First, I think that we should not worry about how the media or others in power treat other religions. If the muslims do not want 'ijithad' (questioning their 'Shastras') then it is their affair. Let them live in the stone age. Ours is an open religion, and it encourages debate and evolution of the religion based on ever living Dharma principles.

This is why we have to always remember that the Vedas and the Upanishads and the six schools of astika philosophy are supreme. Smrithis are subordinate.

When we say that all shastras are inviolate, we are mainly talking about the so called Dharma Shastras, which prescribe the codes of conduct for the people in the Hindu society. Manu Shastra is an example. It states in one of it's now infamous stanza that molten lead should br poured in to the ear of a Shudra if he hears the recitation of the Vedas. One can clearly see that these would be illegal activities if followed today. So, we need to take the heavenly import of sahastras with a grain of salt as they apply to our life today.

Now let us look at our customs and examin them. There are threads here in this Forum which discuss about wearing Komanams with a zeal of a revolutionary and the wearing of Panchakacham (not much about Madisar though, even though it was beifly mentioned). Are these shastra sanctioned attires or those that came about sometime in our clan's history as an artifact of culture? No one disputes the beauty of these garment styles worn, but do they have any connection to what our Sruthis say?

To me this topic falls in to such an area.

We need to learn to seperate what is important and can not be questioned that is the basis of our religion, and all these artifacts that change with time.

There is no harm in discussing the latter. After all, in the absence of a true societal leader like Swami Vivekananda and the Mahatma, debates on these subjects are the only way for us to understand why we follow certain traditions blindly.

If we keep on protesting on these types of issues, we will lose credibility. And our youngsters who do not understand a reason to follow these customs because no one explained the reasons will abandon those customs, which we do not wish. This is the real tragedy.

I also agree with Prof. Nara Ji. Let us evaluate a person in terms of what they say and how they act. Because, I think, our religion demands that. 'Sermon on the Mount' is both admired and quoted by both the Swamy and the Mahatma. Truth is Truth, irrespective of where it comes from.

My two cents.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Shri Nara,

I admit that, after your mention about the thaali is not in vedic scripts (pardon my ignorance), my focus has shifted from the TV program to our customs which is not defined in Veda. The file which i attached, has helped me to think again and i expressed that in my response post to Sri HH. I am fully conscious that it is silly to protest.

I have the firm opinion that the debates shall be arranged among those who have a respectable knowledge about the subject. As we know, (as the evidence to the thaali issue) many of them may not even know the reason or origin of customs we follow today-i am one among them. Perhaps if we organize such a debate, among the pundits vs atheist many people will get to know the truth instead of getting emotional. So, the question here is that to show the skill of debate and entertainment should we distort the beliefs or we know complete meaning and then discuss?. if it is for entertainment why we don't get to see other faiths and beliefs entertained in the same way.

As Shri Kunjuppu stated, even among ourselves, when we discuss this issue, we have to make sure that, it is done with constructive purpose.

Zakir Naik (president of Islamic org is considered 3rd spritual personality in India, in his website mentioned that, In Bhavishya Purana Mohummad is mentioned and welcomed and also has given many reference in our vedas where islam is recognized.

Islamic Research Foundation - Hinduism -Muhammad(PBUH)

On the other hand there is a exposure that this translations are wrong

Bhavishya Purana : The Prediction of Islam And Muhammad

but many of the Muslims still believe Naik's version.


That's why i requested to open a separate thread to have a discussion on our customs (which is added later due to the need of that time) from scholars who has access to resources to throw some light on the requirement of the same.


//What if the host of the show is Christian? I am sure you are aware of Thiruvalluvar's advice about determining the merit based on what is said and not who is saying it.//

I fully agree to that. But if it is said for the betterment of the target with good intentions. The times are changed. But if it is having a hidden agenda, then it is our duty to see the real motive behind the person who has just said the மெய்ப்பொருள்.


[I do not know in the U.S. if the ladies over there are spending Majority of their time glued to the TV watching mind stimulating(!) dramas so much so that their daily actions are having unknowing influence from the TV shows.]

[I did watch the link you have provided. I dont know why i like that. Its sort of discussion in village tea shop. Perhaps I have heard very bad commentary from the muslim forum about Ramayana.]

To put it simply, I still see the need to defend and protest if any christian or muslim conducts shows or debates on our customs. It may not be logical, but I believe that they dont do it with a good intention. If we only see from our community perspective,it may not at all necessary to protest.

I appreciate, if the debates are done between the group who really knows the meaning of the subject instead of faith alone. I respect your views, but the audience are educated, informative as you are, I will never protest any debates on our customs by the people of other religion.

Thanks for the thaali information, it really straightened some of my antennas.
 
Last edited:
Dear Shri Pann,

In such a case, it will be in the form of suggestion for changes or reforms for the betterment of the community and to enhance the image of the general public regarding brahmins as a whole. But, without listing only the ills of the present system, a neat justification for recommending changes may be done.

A separate thread is to be opened for this purpose.

We must exercise caution, this topic being a very sensitive one, it shall not be utilised or exploited by non-believers or persons from other communities. We should not provide them with more arguments to hit ourselves.

If this proposal is accepted, members may post their views briefly and in instalments.
Please don't go overboard.

I am really excited to know the customs & Beliefs which are later added (as Thaali) for the need of those times. Now with the modern times with better awareness, if we revisit our vedic prescriptions and with the vathyar's acceptance, we may have a Sleek religion add-ins stripped down. (Like chrome/mozilla/safari browser).

It will also help us to have a good knowledge about what we follow and what we believe. Please start a thread...

Over to scholars!.

Thanks
PVR
 
The NDTV is probably one of the worst channels when it comes to promoting a anti-Hindu culture. This is not done openly but very subtly. No wonder it is run by Prannoy "James" Roy. Anyone has a doubt just go to the NDTV website right now.

The Videos include some "great news" on
1. Mohanlal, Priyanka's First Husband
2. Soha has no problem shooting a love scene with Shiney
3. Vivek ready to take on Salman again.

Their Photo Feature has "incredible photos" on
1. Red Hot Moments
2. Infamous Wardrobe Malfunctions
3. Bollywood's Hot Wives

NDTV Good Times is really "good" with
1. Sizzling Hot Kingfisher Girls. (this will put Hugh Hefner to shame)
2. Pics: Red Hot Moments
3. Who will be the next Kingfisher Girl?
4. World's largest bikini Parade.

NDTV Movies is showing
1. Penelope gets raunchy?
2. My nude shot isn't vulgar - Kareena
3. The infamous malfunctions
4. Sizzling Southern siren Namitha
5. Deepika, Yuvraj together.

Previously they carried features on important issues like "Bollywood babes with big bosoms" etc. I used to like Prannoy Roy ages back when he used to do the election analysis but now all he does is promote sleaze. So if one wants to undermine a traditional, conservative culture then all you have to do is just promote sleaze.
 
I register my contempt will vijay TV initiate such discussion other religion and their sentiment I request this blog site to forward this to vijay tv
 
Our intention is not to incite the TV channel to start similar programmes despising other religions too.

Let us not fall into a trap. Let us be very clear about that.
 
The NDTV is probably one of the worst channels when it comes to promoting a anti-Hindu culture. This is not done openly but very subtly. No wonder it is run by Prannoy "James" Roy. Anyone has a doubt just go to the NDTV website right now.

The Videos include some "great news" on
1. Mohanlal, Priyanka's First Husband
2. Soha has no problem shooting a love scene with Shiney
3. Vivek ready to take on Salman again.

Their Photo Feature has "incredible photos" on
1. Red Hot Moments
2. Infamous Wardrobe Malfunctions
3. Bollywood's Hot Wives

NDTV Good Times is really "good" with
1. Sizzling Hot Kingfisher Girls. (this will put Hugh Hefner to shame)
2. Pics: Red Hot Moments
3. Who will be the next Kingfisher Girl?
4. World's largest bikini Parade.

NDTV Movies is showing
1. Penelope gets raunchy?
2. My nude shot isn't vulgar - Kareena
3. The infamous malfunctions
4. Sizzling Southern siren Namitha
5. Deepika, Yuvraj together.

Previously they carried features on important issues like "Bollywood babes with big bosoms" etc. I used to like Prannoy Roy ages back when he used to do the election analysis but now all he does is promote sleaze. So if one wants to undermine a traditional, conservative culture then all you have to do is just promote sleaze.

anand,

without intending to, you might have provided the best publicity for ndtv in this forum :) :)

too bad. we cannot get it in canada :(
 
Dear Kunjuppu ji,

anand,

without intending to, you might have provided the best publicity for ndtv in this forum :) :)

too bad. we cannot get it in canada :(

This thought crossed my mind but still wanted to make a point. This is actually the website I mentioned. If you want you can still enjoy the Kingfisher calendar by clicking on www.ndtv.com:lol:
 
the jews have 3 denominations within them:

orthodox, reformed and liberal.

the names are self explanatory. the quarrels between these groups, is many a times, akin to our fights with subcastes and what not.

it may not be a bad idea to align the community towards a set of customs insync with the current times.

we have instances of customs changing and mores dropped/adopted over the millenium. due to lack of recorded history, in many an instance, we do not know why some ritual was incorporated and why somethings were dropped.

to give an example: when i got married 30 years ago, nobody had heard of mehndi. today, in all the weddings i attended in chennai past 5 years, mehndi is taken for granted. why?

same thing regarding rings. did wearing wedding ring or wedding band, an imported trend from the west? is it the result of marketing of de beers?

some items like nalangu are gently dropped. others like lifting of 30 year overweight brides by the mamas for மாலை மாற்றல் is more a source of amusement and mock, than any religious reason.

i have attended arya samaj weddings, which have the bare essence of hindu wedding and is exactly timed at 1 hr 22 mts, start to finish. as conducted by dr. ravi shrivastava in toronto.

we have மந்த்ரம் in tamil and sanskrit. what is there is to stop having new மந்த்ரம் in english? after all, if not already, there will be more indians speaking english more than any other language but their mother tongue.

while there is an emotional attachment to பஞ்ச கச்சம் & மடிசார், we see an increasing number of grooms in north indian garb & brides in lehnga or north indian style sari. if we can go this far, why not suit and dress?

certain dresses were a reflection of those times. so too, were certain rituals. shorn of religiosity, we have, i think, adhered on to many such stuff, which we are either unable or embarassed to perform these days. all that is left is residual guilt.

many of us, in secrecy, give up those rituals, though few would claim loudly for having done so. it is either out of timidity or not wanting to upset the cart.

the arya samaj itself was a movment born out of protest, in late 19th century, against the corruption of pandas and priests. it does not believe in விக்ரகம் and castes. whatever reason, it did not gain ground.

maybe, it is time now, to come up with a new sect of hinduism, with a 21st century view of things, with the roots in our faith, but reflecting the mores and practices of today.

thank you.
 
Dear Shri Kunjuppu Sir,

May I mention here that, if we know the uncut original version of marriage ceremony mentioned in Veda, based on that one can decide what type of "alankarams" they can add-up, depending upon their present living conditions.

Thanks
 
wedding according to vedas

Sirs,
pl. go through the following. The same is there for other traditions also with a little difference.
pl. note that there is no veda manthram meant for mangala suthram.

Later this important manthram is added by acharyas (I surmise) and it is meant to be told only by the bridegroom and nobody (Including the priest) has the right even to prompt and help by reciting this holy manthra.
Web
The Vedic Wedding Ceremony


Oppiliappan Koil Varadachari Sadagopan
Contents (hide)


Veda mantras or sacred hymns play a key role in every step of the traditional Hindu marriage. The mantras for this ceremony come mostly from the ṛks housed in the tenth mandala of the Rg Veda, where Sūrya, the daughter of the sun god, is given in marriage to a bridegroom by the name of Soma. These mantras are mostly from Section 10.85.
Many Divya Desams have references in their traditional histories (sthala purâṇas) to the Lord seeking the hand of Maha Lakshmi, who is raised by a maharishi after discovering her as an infant of divine origin (ayonijâ). For instance, in Oppiliappan Koil, Markandeya Maharishi accedes to the request of Sriman Narayana who seeks the hand of his daughter Bhūmi Devi. She was found as a child in the tulasi forest by the Maharishi. At Kumbakonam, Sarngapani weds Komalavalli, the daughter of Hema Maharishi. At Thiruvahindrapuram, Hēmâmbujavalli, the daughter of another rishi, marries Dēvanâthan in a Vedic ceremony. At Tirupati, Srinivasa marries Padmavati after seeking her hand from her father, Akasa Rajan. At Tiru Idavendai, the Lord got the name of Nitya Kalyâṇar through his marriage to the 360 daughters of Kalava Rishi. He married them each one a day and made them all into one named Akhilavalli Nacciyar.
The most celebrated one is the wedding of Andal and Ranganatha. Ranganatha seeks the hand of Andal from her father Periyalvar and weds her in a ceremony at Srivilliputtur. Andal had previously dreamt about this marriage and recorded the wedding in detail in her Nacciyar Tirumozhi, Varanamayiram section, exactly as prescribed in the Vedic ceremony.
In the following sections, I will describe the steps of a Vedic wedding and their significance.
Step 1: vâk dânam

This step is a part of Kanya Varanam, where the groom-to-be (brahmachari) sends two elders on his behalf to the father of a girl whom he wishes to marry. The elders convey the message of the brahmachari and ask for the daughter’s hand. The two mantras in the form of brahmachari’s appeal to intercede on his behalf come from Rg 10.32.1 (“pra sugmantha…”) and 10.85.23. The first mantra begs the elders to proceed and return quickly with success back from their mission on his behalf. The second mantram (“anruksharaa Rjava:…”) asks for the gods’ blessings for the elders’ safe journey to the house of the father of the would-be-bride. The mantra prays to Aryama and Bhaga for a marriage full of harmony. The father accedes to the request of the elders and the resulting agreement for betrothal is known as vaak daanam.
Step 2: kanyâ dânam

Here, the brahmachari meets his prospective father-in-law. The latter seats him facing the eastern direction and washes the feet of the future son-in-law, considering him as Lord Vishnu Himself. All honors are given including the ceremonial washing of the feet of the groom by the father-in-law and offer of madhu parka (a mixture of yogurt, honey and ghee) to the accompaniment of selected Veda mantras.
Step 3: vara prekshaṇam

In this ritual, the bridegroom and the bride look at each other formally for the first time. The bridegroom worries about any dośa (defects) that the bride might have and prays to the gods Varuna, Brihaspati, Indra and Surya to remove every defect and to make her fit for harmonious and long marriage life blessed with progeny and happiness (mantra: Rg 10.85.44). The bride groom recites the mantra and wipes the eyebrows of the bride with a blade of darbha grass, as if he is chasing away all defects. The darbha grass is thrown behind the bride at the conclusion of this ceremony.
Step 4: maṅgala snânam and the wearing of the wedding clothes by the bride

Five Veda mantras are recited to sanctify the bride in preparation for the subsequent stages of the marriage. This aspect of the marriage is known as mangala snanam. The sun god (Surya), water god (Varuna), and other gods are invoked to purify the bride in preparation for a harmonious married life. Next, the bride wears the marriage clothes to the accompaniment of additional Veda mantras. The bridegroom then ties a darbha rope around the waist of the bride and leads her to the place, where the sacred fire is located for conducting the rest of the marriage ceremony. The bride and the groom sit on a new mat in front of the fire. The groom recites three mantras which invoke Soma, Gandharva and Agni to confer strength, beauty, and youth on the bride.
Step 5: mâṅgalya dhâraṇam

There is no Veda Mantram for tying the mangala sutram (auspicious thread) around the neck of the bride by the groom. The latter takes the mangala sutram in his hands and recites the following verse:
mâṅgalyaṁ tantunânena mama jîvanahetunâ |
kaṇṭheḥ badhnami subhage! sañjîva śaradaḥ śatam
||
This is a sacred thread. This is essential for my long life. I tie this around your neck, O maiden having many auspicious attributes! May you live happily for a hundred years (with me).
Step 6: pâṇi grahaṇam

After mâṅgalya dhâranam, the groom lowers his right palm and encloses it over the right hand of the bride. He covers all the five fingers of the right hand of the bride with his right palm through this act of paani grahanam. He recites mantras in praise of Bhaga, Aryama, Savita, Indra, Agni, Suryan, Vayu and Saraswati, while holding the bride’s hand. He prays for long life, progeny, prosperity and harmony with the bride during their married life. The closed fingers of the right hand of the bride is said to represent her heart. The pâṇi grahaṇam ritual symbolizes the bride surrendering her heart in the hands of the groom during the occasion of the marriage.
Step 7: sapta padi

During this ritual, the groom walks with the bride to the right side of the sacred fire. All along, he holds his wife’s right hand in his right hand in the way in which he held her hand during the pâṇi grahaṇam ceremony. He stops, bends down and holds the right toe of his wife with his right hand and helps her take seven steps around the fire. At the beginning of each step, he recites a Veda mantra to invoke the blessings of Maha Vishnu. Through these seven mantras, he asks Maha Vishnu to follow in the footsteps of his wife and bless her with food, strength, piety, progeny, wealth, comfort and health. At the conclusion of the seven steps, he addresses his wife with a moving statement from the Veds summarized below:
Dear Wife! By taking these seven steps, you have become my dearest friend. I pledge my unfailing loyalty to you.

  1. Let us stay together for the rest of our lives.
  2. Let us not separate from each other ever.
  3. Let us be of one mind in carrying out our responsibilities as householders (gṛhasthas).
  4. Let us love and cherish each other and enjoy nourishing food and good health.
  5. Let us discharge our prescribed Vedic duties to our elders, ancestors, rishis, creatures, and gods.
  6. Let our aspirations be united. I will be the Saaman and may you be the Rk (Saaman here refers to the music and Rk refers to the Vedic text that is being cast into music). Let me be the upper world and let you be the Bhumi or Mother Earth. I will be the Sukla or life force and may you be the bearer of that Sukla. Let me be the mind and let you be the speech.
  7. May you follow me to conceive children and gain worldly as well as spiritual wealth. May all auspiciousness come your way.

This series of Veda mantras starting with “sakhâ saptapadâ bhava…” and ending with “pumse putrâya…” are rich with meaning and imagery.
Step 8: pradhâna homam

After sapta padi, the couple take their seat on the western side of the sacred fire and conduct pradhâna homam. During the conductance of this homam, the bride must place her right hand on her husband’s body so that she gets the full benefit of the homam through symbolic participation. Sixteen mantras are recited to the accompaniment of pouring a spoon of clarified butter into the sacred fire at the end of recitation of each of the mantras. These mantras salute Soma, Gandharva, Agni, Indra, Vayu, the Aswini Devas, Savita, Brihaspati, Viswa Devas and Varuna for blessing the marriage and beseeches them to confer long wedded life, health, wealth, children and freedom from all kinds of worries. One prayer — the sixth mantra — has a sense of humor and provides deep insight into human psychology. The text of this mantra is: “daśâsyaṁ putrân dehi, patim ekâdaśaṁ kṛti”. Here, the groom asks Indra to bless the couple with ten children and requests that he be blessed to become the eleventh child of his bride in his old age.
Step 9: Stepping on the grinding stone

After pradhâna homam, the husband holds the right toe of his wife and lifts her leg and places it on a flat granite grinding stone known as “ammi” in Tamil. The ammi stands at the right side of the sacred fire. The husband recites a Veda mantra when he places the right foot of his wife on the ammi:
May you stand on this firm stone.
May you be rock-firm during your stay on this grinding stone.
May you stand up to those who oppose you while you carry out your time-honored responsibilities as a wife sanctioned by the Vedas and tradition.
May you develop tolerance to your enemies and put up a fair fight to defend your legitimate rights as the head of the household in a firm manner, equal to the steady strength of this grinding stone.
Step 10: lâja homam

After ammi stepping, a ceremony of doing homam with puffed rice is conducted. Here, the wife cups her hands and the brothers of the bride fill the cupped hands with puffed rice. The husband adds a drop of ghee to the puffed rice and recites five Veda mantras. At the end of each of the recitation, the puffed rice is thrown into the sacred fire as havis (offering) to Agni. Through these mantras, the wife prays for long life for her husband and for a marriage filled with peace and harmony. At the end of the lâja homam, the husband unties the darbha (grass) belt around the waist of his wife with another mantra. The husband states through this mantra that he unites his wife and ties her now with the bonds of Varuna and invites her to be a full partner in his life to enjoy the blessings of wedded life.
Step 11: gṛha praveśam

This ceremony relates to the journey of the wife to her husband’s home. The husband carries the sacred fire (homa agni) in a earthern vessel during this journey home. There are many Veda mantras associated with this journey. These mantras pray to the appropriate Vedic gods to remove all obstacles that one can experience in a journey. The bride is requested to become the mistress of the house and is reminded of her important role among the relatives of her husband. After reaching her new home, she puts her right foot first in the house and recites the following Veda mantra:
I enter this house with a happy heart. May I give birth to children, who observe the path of righteousness (dharma)! May this house that I enter today be prosperous forever and never be deficient in food. May this house be populated by people of virtue and pious thoughts.
Step 12: prâviśya homam

After gṛha praveśam, a fire ritual known as prâviśya homam is performed by the couple to the accompaniment of thirteen mantras from the Rg Veda. Jayadi Homam is also part of the prâviśya homam. This homam offers the salutation of the newly married couple to Agni Deva and asks for strength and nourishment to discharge the duties of a grihasthas for the next one hundred years. After that, the bride shifts her position from the right side of her husband to his left side. At that time, once again, she recites a Veda mantra invoking the gods for blessings of children and wealth to perform the duties of a householder.
At the end of the above homam, a child is placed on the lap of the bride and she offers a fruit to the child, while reciting a prescribed Veda mantra. Yet another mantram asks the assembled guests to bless the bride and then retire to their own individual homes peacefully. During the first evening of the stay in her new home, the couple see the stars known as Dhruva (pole star) and Arundhati. The husband points out the pole star and prays for the strength and stability of the household thru a Veda mantra. Next, the husband points out the Arundhati star to his wife and describes to her the the story of Arundhati and her legendary chastity.
The rich and meaningful ceremony of the Hindu marriage (Kalyâṇa Mahotsavam of the temples) is thus carried out in concert with sacred Veda Mantras. The bride and bridegroom should enunciate clearly the Veda mantras and reflect on their meanings during the different stages of the marriage ceremony. This way, they can be sure of a long, happy and prosperous married life and play their appropriate role in society to the fullest extent. Srinivasa Kalyanam is performed in the temples to remind us of these hoary Vedic traditions behind a Hindu marriage.
lokâḥ samastâḥ sukhino bhavantu |
sarvamaṅgaḷâni santu ||
Oppiliappan Koil Varadachari Sadagopan
December 10, 1995
This I have copied and pasted from swami varadhachari sadagopan without permission!!
 
The NDTV is probably one of the worst channels when it comes to promoting a anti-Hindu culture.

[...]

I used to like Prannoy Roy ages back when he used to do the election analysis but now all he does is promote sleaze. So if one wants to undermine a traditional, conservative culture then all you have to do is just promote sleaze.


Dear Anand, Greetings!

I don't want to get into Prannoy Roy's intentions or what motivates his readers to enjoy a little sleaze. I am against sleaze also, :) except of course when I am alone in front of my computer :).

However, I am not sure why you think revealing pictures of women promotes anti-Hindu culture.

The pillars of almost all big temples I have visited are decorated with exquisitely sculptured scantily clad buxom women. The gopuram invariably will contain anatomically complete naked figurines of both men and women -- with men normally shown with exaggerated features that will make some of the spammers green. One Gopuram that sticks (sorry!) in my mind is the Gopuram of Thirumalirunsolai Kallazagar temple. If you visit this temple take a few minutes to examine the gopuram -- who needs NDTV!

And then there is the Konarak temple.

From visual to written words -- there is tons of sensual and even amorous Azhvar pasurams. Look at this one from Andal's Nacchiyar Thirumozhi #1.5.

வானிடை வாழும் அவ்வானவர்க்கு மறையவர் வேள்வியில் வகுத்த அவி
கானிடைத் திரிவதோர் நரி புகுந்து கடப்பதும் மோப்பதும் செய்வது ஒப்ப
ஊனிடை ஆழி சங்கு உத்தமர்க்கு என்று உன்னித்து எழுந்த என் தடமுலைகள்
மானிடர்க்கு என்று பேச்சுப்படில் வாழகில்லேன் கண்டாய் மன்மதனே.

Andal in effect says her body is only for Sriman Narayana to enjoy, and pleads with Manmathan to unite her with her lover, or else she wishes to die. There are many more, but I will stop here.

Cheers!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
andal

Dear sir
As Andaal has written

மானிடவர்க்கென்று பேச்சுப்படில் வாழகில்லேன் கண்டாய் ',
we should take a spiritual meaning to it. should we not?
 
we have மந்த்ரம் in tamil and sanskrit. what is there is to stop having new மந்த்ரம் in english? after all, if not already, there will be more indians speaking english more than any other language but their mother tongue.


Hi K,

மந்த்ரம் in English reminded me of my own son's wedding in March this year.

He married an American girl. Even though the ceremony was secular, my d.i.l. wanted to incorporate something from Indian tradition. I suggested she look into Saptapadi. She did some research and came up with the M.C. of the wedding reading out the meaning of the seven steps while the couple, hand-in-hand, took seven steps around a lamp.

When it came to the step in which the couple wishes for righteous children, just by coincidence, because she had slightly stepped over her own gown, both my son and my d.i.l. were just standing there for a couple seconds to get their footing. But it seemed as though they were hesitating about having children and all the people gathered burst out laughing.

Cheers!
 
We need to protest all the media where biased onesided versions of hindu rituals are projected and they are all very comfortable that brahmin will not react. One of my friend said once "after maligning the very rituals conducted by the prohidhars, the same fellows will go on the same afternoon call them to perform those rituals they had commented commented, in the same media office be it visual media or paper back. All that he needs is some money and a thengai mudi."
Added to this he also told that there will be a brahmin in that office who will encourage all these things just for his petty benefits.

lease wake up. Even though it looks late, better late than never.

Ganesh kumar

I was deeply disturbed by the contents of the programs in Vijay TV. And I found this on the web which reflected my concerns. I have just copy pasted it. You can also read it in the following web links.

Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com

You can contact Mercury Creations (Mr. Antony-CEO) at 0-9840712192 and Vijay TV (Mr. Sriram-CEO) at 044-28224696 and 044-28214201 and record your protest and condemnation and demand a public apology.
Readers can send letters to Vijay TV, 15 Jagannathan Road, Nungambakkam, Chennai – 600034.
Readers can also send protest letters by e-mail at
indya.com - Feedback
[email protected]
[email protected] and
to the Information and Broadcasting Ministry at
[email protected] and [email protected]

Thennadu udaya sivane potri

En nattavarkum eraiva potri





[Tamil Hindus have noted an increasingly anti-Hindu bias in the electronic media. Recently, a programme telecast by Vijay TV of ‘Star TV’ Group on 11 October, in Tamil, ridiculed the Hindu cultural practice of married women wearing Mangalsutras and insulted Hindu women. There is growing concern that this is part of a concerted socio-political move to defame and delegitimise all aspects of Hindu tradition in public life – Editor]


The sanctity of Mangalsutra


“Mangalyathaaranam’ or the tying of Mangalsutra is the most important ritual in the Hindu marriage. The Mangalsutra, sacred symbol of marriage in all Hindu groups, is known as ‘Mangala Naan’ or ‘Mangala Mani’ or simply ‘Thaali’ in Tamil. Even an ordinary thread soaked in turmeric solution and tied with a small turmeric piece is considered as Thaali, because turmeric is attached with divinity, as it is one of the important ingredients in puja; hence the turmeric thread has the sanctity of a Mangalsutra.


Musical instruments (Nagaswaram, Thavil) are played at the time of the tying of Mangalsutra at full volume, so that any bad words being mouthed by anyone in the marriage hall may not fall in the ears of the bride and bridegroom. The Mangalsutra is tied around the neck of a woman so that she is recognised by all as one who is married to another man and respected. A married woman should never desire another man. The ‘Thaali is like a Veli’ (Mangalsutra is like a fence) protecting her, and she must not transgress it. Tamil Nadu even had a king by name ‘Thalikku Veli’…


Agni (fire) plays the role of ‘witness’ in the marriage ritual, a witness not only for the wellbeing of the couple, but also for their character. If they are not sincere to each other and become characterless, Agni burns their heart and mind and punishes them. That is also reason a woman of character is known as “Karpukkanal” (‘Karpu’ = chastity; ‘Kanal’ = Agni).


The groom puts three knots while tying the Mangalsutra around the neck of the bride to ensure her character: the first knot indicates that she is obedient to her husband, the second that she is docile to her parents and the third that she fears God. It can also be termed as “Kaappu” (protection) that she gets from her husband, parents and God. Both the bride and bridegroom are tied a “Kaappu” in their hands symbolizing that she is ensured of her protection and he assures her his protection.


Hinduism is the only religion which projects woman as Devi and her husband as a devotee (bhakta) making their life happy.


Hey Hinduism! You have made the life happy by projecting the woman as Goddess and laying a fencing of chastity around her! I love you like my life!”
- Poet Kannadasan in “Meaningful Hinduism” (Arthamulla Inthu Matham)


It is our culture to look upon a married woman as a mother. The Mangalsutra is not a decorative item. It is a symbol of culture; it is a symbol of divinity; it is a symbol of chastity; it is a symbol indicating the sanctity of marriage; it is a symbol projecting the renowned Bharatiya Hindu culture.


Our culture survived the oppression of Islamic and Christian invaders for centuries. But in the half century since independence, particularly the last three decades, our culture has undergone severe changes for the worse. Westernization and the assault of anti-Hindu forces, continuing alien system of education, self-centered politicians and their misrule and the irresponsible foreign-controlled mainstream media have together taken a heavy toll on our cultural heritage, driving it along the path of destruction.


Christian Media House insulting Hindus


As a milestone on this destructive path, Chennai based ‘Vijay TV,’ part of Rupert Murdoch’s media empire (Star TV Group), has been telecasting a programme titled “Neeyaa Naanaa” (You or Me – Tum aur Mein) every Sunday for over two years. It is produced by another Christian production company called Mercury Creations; the CEO is one Antony. The programme is anchored by one Gopinath, also a Christian. It is basically a discussion forum wherein two teams (one ‘for’ and one ‘against’) debate a subject before a chief guest (a supposed celebrity), and finally the chief guest and anchor declare their ‘verdict’ in conformity with the ‘motive’ of the producer firm.


It has been noticed that this company invariably takes Hindu oriented subjects for discussion, and demeans Hindu culture, insults Hindu tradition and wounds the religious sentiments of Hindus, planting seeds of poison in the minds of gullible viewers (mostly Hindus) so that they suspect and distrust their own cultural heritage and religious traditions.


A few weeks ago, for instance, the channel telecast a debate: “Do we need to worship the Kula Devatas?” The debate was organized between ‘elders’ and ‘youngsters’, elders talking about Kula Devata worship and youngsters against it. It programme would certainly have impacted upon the innocent minds of the next generation against Kula Devata worship.


Similarly sensitive topics like, “Why not we have Tamil archana in temples?”, “Why should we have only Brahmins as archagas in Agamic temples?” have been debated with the motive of ridiculing Vedic and Agamic principles and to project only so-called Brahminism as Hinduism. These topics were utilized to the hilt to create a rift between Purohits and Pujaris and alienate worshippers of village deities. Another topic “Which is better, arranged marriage or love marriage?” saw Hindu customs ridiculed.


Normally, the participants, who are supposed to talk in favour of the production company’s motive, are handpicked by the company; even if the other team’s participants perform better, their arguments get edited. This writer has had the personal experience of participating in one such programme, anchored by the same Gopinath.


Unfortunately, most participants are Hindus who simply come to show their faces on television without realizing that they are also playing a part in the denigration of their religion and culture. For such persons, seeing themselves on the TV screen is a big achievement, to boast about in the neighbourhood. This is a reason for the obsession with sending children to so-called ‘Reality Shows’, which smack of indecency and even vulgarity.


Vijay TV’s audacious show


The last debate telecast by Vijay TV must be viewed in this backdrop and the topic debated on Sunday, 11 October 2009, between 9 pm and 10 pm (primetime Sunday) was, “Should the Mangalsutra be necessarily worn by women?”


In course of the debate, the sacred Hindu custom was ridiculed in demeaning terms and the Mangalsutra termed as just an ‘ordinary thing’ which need not be worn. Some of the outrageous comments made by the anchor and some participants include:


- Wearing the Mangalsutra is only a superstition; it doesn’t have any sanctity attached to it; the Mangalsutra is just an ordinary thing.


- Most women do not wear it nowadays.


- Women who go out for jobs do not want to show themselves as ‘married’ and hence they conceal their Mangalsutra inside their blouses.


- A lot of women do not wear it while sleeping at night.


- Many women do not wear it while going out and prefer to leave it at home.


- It is like a dog’s license hanging round the neck. The Mangalsutra is only a marriage license and doesn’t have any sanctity (comment by a Christian lady)


The arrogant Gopinath asked a participant who supported wearing Mangalsutras if she would remove hers if a doctor asked her to do so before a surgery. The lady replied that she would obey the doctor and wear it again after the surgery. The anchor teased her, “Will you do whatever the doctor says?” which made her squirm in embarrassment.


In a shocking incident, one lady simply removed her Mangalsutra and handed it over to the anchor when he asked for it. Chief guest Nirmala Periyasamy, a former news reader in SUN TV, who belongs to the school of Dravidian thought, gave the ‘Best Participant’ prize to this lady. When the prize was handed over, the anchor forced the other participants to applaud her for her ‘courage’ and ‘rational’ thinking.


It was obvious that this lady and others who spoke against the sanctity of the Mangalsutra were handpicked by the production company and that the arguments of the opposite team have been edited sharply. The anchor openly bullied participants who spoke in support of wearing the Mangalsutra and the sanctity attached to it. One can imagine the adverse impact this programme could have made on the minds of young girls and innocents in semi-urban and rural areas
 
secularism

But the same Gopinath as Christian do not organise debates on "why pardha?" or " Why special dresses for Pastras in Churches" or " All nuns should be bachelors, why".

Secular person in this column may please try to ubderstand the secularistic views are only to redicule the hindu rituals conducted by brahmins.
i am sure enough people understand secularism because its mostly Hindus who practice secularism.
Most Hindus are tolerant, respect the views of others and live in peace and harmony with other communities.
We are the ones who say "Loka Samastha Sukhinoh Bhavantu"
We do not practise the "Mamaiva" concept and at times this can cause us being taken for granted.

I echo the sentiments of Shri Nara.

I think we should all recognize that 'Dialogue' is an important tool in a democratic society ; As much as 'Thaali' is sacred to many women, we should also recognize that some may not attach the same kind of importance.

Just because we dont like someone's views, we shouldnt shut their voices or the dialogue process.

Throughout the program, i got a sense that there was no 'imposition' of a particular view ; infact the format of the program is to 'place contradictory views' and encourage a freewheeling discussion.

Feeling of insult to Hindu belief et all, in my view is carrying it a bit too far.

The lady who did the supposedly daring act of removing her thaali was presumably a brahmin which shouldnt be the reason why we are up in arms against Vijay TV.

Having said this, i personally dont believe that not wearing a thaali alone is a sign of progressive views. As much as Thaali is symbolic, not wearing a thaali is also symbolic form of progressiveness.

And pray, secularism has nothing to do with this debate. Gopinath may be a christian by choice but that doesnt mean that he cannot anchor a debate concerning the Hindus. Then are we to stretch this argument to levels that a Muslim President doesnt greet the nation on Diwali or a Hindu President doesnt do so for an 'Eid-ul-Fitr'.

There's no doubt that Secularism is an over-stretched concept in India ; I have a sneaking doubt that 90% of Indians dont know what is Secularism.

Secularism isnt a cover to protect sacred cows or is it a means to encourage social taboos.

Tongue firmly in my cheek, I dont think that we should emulate the 'Thaali'ban by seeking a ban on discussions re: thaali. :)
 
Shri. Nara,

Dear Anand, Greetings!

I don't want to get into Prannoy Roy's intentions or what motivates his readers to enjoy a little sleaze. I am against sleaze also, :) except of course when I am alone in front of my computer :).

However, I am not sure why you think revealing pictures of women promotes anti-Hindu culture.

The pillars of almost all big temples I have visited are decorated with exquisitely sculptured scantily clad buxom women. The gopuram invariably will contain anatomically complete naked figurines of both men and women -- with men normally shown with exaggerated features that will make some of the spammers green. One Gopuram that sticks (sorry!) in my mind is the Gopuram of Thirumalirunsolai Kallazagar temple. If you visit this temple take a few minutes to examine the gopuram -- who needs NDTV!

And then there is the Konarak temple.

From visual to written words -- there is tons of sensual and even amorous Azhvar pasurams. Look at this one from Andal's Nacchiyar Thirumozhi #1.5.

வானிடை வாழும் அவ்வானவர்க்கு மறையவர் வேள்வியில் வகுத்த அவி
கானிடைத் திரிவதோர் நரி புகுந்து கடப்பதும் மோப்பதும் செய்வது ஒப்ப
ஊனிடை ஆழி சங்கு உத்தமர்க்கு என்று உன்னித்து எழுந்த என் தடமுலைகள்
மானிடர்க்கு என்று பேச்சுப்படில் வாழகில்லேன் கண்டாய் மன்மதனே.

Andal in effect says her body is only for Sriman Narayana to enjoy, and pleads with Manmathan to unite her with her lover, or else she wishes to die. There are many more, but I will stop here.

Cheers!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me there is a huge difference between sculptures on our gopurams and what is being showed on the channels today. By your own admission, you like to sit on front of your computer screen to enjoy whatever you want to enjoy. Now would you pull up images of the gopurams or the Kingfisher calendar? I think most of us would pull up the latter because that's what titillates us. The keywords here are titillation and vulgarity and that is what the present day channels promote. Honestly, I have visited almost all the temples in TN during my teenage years and never have found them vulgar even at that age. Why go to Andal's period? Just take Kannadasan's lyrics on love which are quite explicit even by the standards of those days. But there was a beauty in it and the way they were tuned by the tune smiths one never felt any vulgarity. Compare it with the modern day lyrics. Without even listening to the lyrics, just the music seems to suggests all kind of pelvic thrusts and gyrations. So a lot depends on the presentation, isn't it?

The other point I was trying to drive across was 80% of the news content on that particular day was featuring exposure of women's body parts in some way or other. Apart from the routine news on crime and politics. In fact this is the case for most of the days for NDTV. So here you have a channel almost entirely dedicated to this kind of stuff. Our temples were not so. That is my point.

Thanks, This is my view, period, as this argument can go endlessly.
 
sculptures in temples

The discussion and debate is basically on the disrespect shown by Vijay TV -advertantly or inadvertantly - on the basic Hindu rituals.

There may be people removing their mangalsutra frequently and hang anywhere in their house.
There may be women not wearing Pardha.
There may be marriages without pastors or pastors not in their customery gowns.

The point is those who are forward thinking do not have time to discuss uplifting of the society, do not hve time to help brothern in India to develope, to eradicate poverty, to stop archakas and sastrigal families from being harrassed time and again - have all the time to discuss why mangalsutra? Height of idiocy is that the very programme is well attended by mostly brahmins and nobody even realises that the very final effect of the programme is disrespecting their own customs.Why?

We have not raised our voice for so many years- precisely -30-35 years - and allowed a good generation to think what their elders did was anti social just because of the blunt propaganda by some idiots and the silence observed by our community, spinelessly.

At least now we should wake up so that first the onslought on brahmins should be stopped. Afterwards we can debate among ourselves about the sanctity of rituals, Sculptures in Temples, madisar , Panchakacham, etc. I dont think that we will get the answer correct when we approach the problem with prejudice.

While writing this I would like to mention that I have been regularly watching the Vijay TV debates and appriciate by and large most of the episodes. I feel that they are less aggressive towards our community. Still, it is not fair to keep silence when such debates with actions - like removing mangalsutra in front of the group and handing over to a stranger- are telecast and appreciate their secularism.
 
sculptures in temples

The discussion and debate is basically on the disrespect shown by Vijay TV -advertantly or inadvertantly - on the basic Hindu rituals.

There may be people removing their mangalsutra frequently and hang anywhere in their house.
There may be women not wearing Pardha.
There may be marriages without pastors or pastors not in their customery gowns.

The point is those who are forward thinking do not have time to discuss uplifting of the society, do not hve time to help brothern in India to develope, to eradicate poverty, to stop archakas and sastrigal families from being harrassed time and again - have all the time to discuss why mangalsutra? Height of idiocy is that the very programme is well attended by mostly brahmins and nobody even realises that the very final effect of the programme is disrespecting their own customs.Why?

We have not raised our voice for so many years- precisely -30-35 years - and allowed a good generation to think what their elders did was anti social just because of the blunt propaganda by some idiots and the silence observed by our community, spinelessly.

At least now we should wake up so that first the onslought on brahmins should be stopped. Afterwards we can debate among ourselves about the sanctity of rituals, Sculptures in Temples, madisar , Panchakacham, etc.

While writing this i would like to mention that I have been regularly watching the Vijay TV debates and appriciate by and large most of the episodes. I feel that they are less aggressive towards our community. Still, it is not fair to keep silence when such debates with actions - like removing mangalsutra in front of the group and handing over to a straqnger- are telecast and appreciate their secularism.
 
I ALSO SAW THE VIJAY PROGRAMME.THOUGH I AM NOT A FANATIC HINDU,I DID FEEL SORRY WHEN THE SENIOR WOMAN PARTICIPANT,REMOVING THE THALI AND HANDING IT OVER TO THE ANCHOR WITHOUT BATTING AN EYE LID.

I DO LODGE MY VEHEMENT PROTEST AGAINST SUCH VIOLATION OF THE SENTIMENTS OF ONE PARTICULAR COMMUNITY IN THE NAME OF "FREEDOM OF SPEECH"

ebsmanibalki
 
I dont understand this.

It is a well established fact that 'Thaali' is not necessarily a 'hindu' custom and certainly NOT a brahmin custom.

So why are the views being registered here as though the program is an 'affront' to 'only brahmins'.

I think this is the 'trap' we should avoid falling into, the trap of feeling that 'brahmin' sentiments have been violated.

Even during the course of the program various types of 'thaalis' belonging to different hindu communities were spoken about. It naturally folllows that 'hindu community' should feel enraged (if at all) but here we are discussing as if only 'brahmin sentiments' are involved.

The action of the elderly lady can be discussed in the context of this forum but again to say that she was 'provoked' to do what she did isnt giving a true account of her actions. May be she did it for bravado.

I am also amazed as to how the label of 'forward thinking' is so easily being bandied about. Would it just require a woman to get rid of her 'thaali' to be a 'forward thinking' woman ?.

Voila !, membership to a group cant get any easier than this.

The points re: the poor state of affairs of sastrigals is well appreciated and as a community we should come together to help those less fortunate amongst us.
 
I ALSO SAW THE VIJAY PROGRAMME.THOUGH I AM NOT A FANATIC HINDU,I DID FEEL SORRY WHEN THE SENIOR WOMAN PARTICIPANT,REMOVING THE THALI AND HANDING IT OVER TO THE ANCHOR WITHOUT BATTING AN EYE LID.

I DO LODGE MY VEHEMENT PROTEST AGAINST SUCH VIOLATION OF THE SENTIMENTS OF ONE PARTICULAR COMMUNITY IN THE NAME OF "FREEDOM OF SPEECH"

ebsmanibalki
But tell me, sir, may I submit that why are we blaming only the programme or the comperor. Why the senior lady chose to remove her thali and give it to the anchor and receive a prize also for her such act.. What popularity she is trying to gain in this?. If she is religion savvy, wanting to uphold the prinicipls of marriage and protect her marriagehood with all her symbols intact would she be ready to part that mangala sutra. Is this not something we should introspect?. Let the anchor do his job . Why the lady did not do her's like wise by raising to protest for tempting her /anybody, resolve to stress the values of marriage in Hinduism and use it as platform to teach him and such critics a lesson.Why she could not have done it? When she is bold enough to remove her sacred Thali she ought to be equally brave enough to react to situation as it demands.
There is something radically wrong with we own people either by ignorance or we are ready at times to give up our principles or totally be patient, meekly submit to actions around who/which are bent on to bring discredit to us. This has to be looked into and set right,Sir. Our own people has to stand up at right times. Are we...? We blame the thief instead of taking care of our purse.If the purse is carefully kept how will a thief steal it ? I don't justify the thieving but protecting is our responsibility, all of us know this>>>> i...
 
Last edited:
So why are the views being registered here as though the program is an 'affront' to 'only brahmins'.

I think this is the 'trap' we should avoid falling into, the trap of feeling that 'brahmin' sentiments have been violated.

.

hari,

i do not know, how many times, i have mentioned this types of traps that we get involved.

the fact that the adheenams have not mentioned anything about it. neither has the rest of the tamil hindu groups.

after all, it is as much their religion as it is ours.

to me it looks again like echoes of vhp and i think, it is in the best interest of our community, that these things are taken in their stride.

pick your battles i say, and avoid skirmishes where you are going to lose.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest ads

Back
Top