Wedding between Tamil Brahmin and Seer Karuneegar

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#229
"When I found out that during the Bangladesh war our military went and raped many villagers it was unacceptable to me as a student that people of my country and that too the respected Army people would do that."

Formation of bangla desh happened in 1971 and most of us were exposed to the events then.

I do not remember there was any reported bad behaviour by indian troops; in fact indian soldiers were welcomed and helped by the locals. Pakistanis were routed in 15 days, pak army surrendered and 90000 pak soldiers were taken prisoners (later released unconditionally without getting anything in return or any investigation in the well published atrocities against bangladesis by pak soldiers.

What stands out is:
1. Killing of bengali hindus, minorities, biharis in hundred thousands is not considered as 'genocide' by some, but death of 700 muslims (and 300 hindus) in gujarat is projected as genocide of muslims by hindus in gujarat. Humanist seculars have no shame to repeat falsehood knowing fully well reality.
2. There is no explicit reference of indian soldiers engaged in war atrocities; stray incidents are possible, but not glaringly reported.

Some info from wiki:

Bangladeshi authorities claim that as many as 3 million people were killed, although theHamoodur Rahman Commission, an official Pakistan Government investigation, put the figure as low as 26,000 civilian casualties.[SUP][26][/SUP] As a result of the conflict, a further eight to ten million people, mostly Hindus,[SUP][27][/SUP]fled the country at the time to seek refuge in neighbouring India.American political scientists Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose, give an estimate of 300,000 dead, killed by all parties and deny a genocide occurred.[SUP][28]

[/SUP]
Many of those killed were the victims of militias who fought with the West Pakistan Army:Razakars, Al-Shams and Al-Badr forces,[SUP][34][/SUP] at the instruction of the Pakistani Army.[SUP][35][/SUP] There are many mass graves in Bangladesh, and more are continually being discovered (such as one in an old well near a mosque in Dhaka, located in the Mirpur region of the city, which was discovered in August 1999).[SUP][36][/SUP] The first night of war on Bengalis, which is documented in telegrams from the American Consulate in Dhaka to the United States State Department, saw indiscriminate killings of students of Dhaka University and other civilians.[SUP][37][/SUP]
There was significant sectarian violence not only perpetrated by the West Pakistani army,[SUP][38][/SUP]but also by Bengali nationalists against non-Bengali minorities, especially Biharis.
According to political scientist Peter Tomsen, Pakistan's secret service, in conjunction with the political party Jamaat-e-Islami, formed militias such as Al-Badr ("the moon") and the Al-Shams("the sun") to conduct operations against the nationalist movement.[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP] These militias targeted noncombatants and committed rapes as well as other crimes.[SUP][45][/SUP] Local collaboratorsknown as Razakars also took part in the atrocities.
Jamaat-e-Islami members and some of its leaders collaborated with the Pakistani forces in rapes and targeted killings.
The generally accepted figure for the mass rapes during the nine-month long conflict is 200,000.[SUP][63][/SUP] Numerous women were tortured, raped and killed during the war.[SUP][64][/SUP] Again, exact numbers are not known and are a subject of debate. Bangladeshi sources cite a figure of 200,000 women raped, giving birth to thousands of war-babies. The Pakistani Army also kept numerous Bengali women as sex-slaves inside the Dhaka Cantonment. Most of the girls were captured from Dhaka University and private homes.
The minorities of Bangladesh, especially theHindus, were specific targets of the Pakistani army.[SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP] There was widespread killing of Hindu males, and rapes of women. Documented incidents in which Hindus were massacred in large numbers include theChuknagar massacre, the Jathibhanga massacre, and the Shankharipara massacre.[SUP][75][/SUP] More than 60% of the Bengali refugees who fled to India were Hindus.[SUP][76][/SUP] It is not exactly known what percentage of the people killed by the Pakistan army were Hindus, but it is safe to say it was disproportionately high.[SUP][77][/SUP] This widespread violence against Hindus was motivated by a policy to purge East Pakistan of what was seen as Hindu and Indian influences.

1971 Bangladesh genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sri Sarang

Thanks for your sources.

The incidence of rape by Indian army was very low based on what little I knew then. I only remember having argued with some school friends that such a thing is impossible. Hence I remember what I heard and read then. There were isolated instances and what I read was that it was covered up and people did not get punished. In comparison to Pakistan Army's action it is obviously nothing.


My larger point is that human beings behave similarly when conditions are similar no matter where they are born. There are many in USA that are in denial that US army is capable of torturing its captives. This is because people place inapplicable value on something that is not there. Atrocities do get committed in wars and by few people when they have the opportunity and freedom to do so.

There is a fear of rapists in Delhi by some contemplating to visit India. My take is that the stories are overblown but there are bad guys everywhere in the world. Being Indian does not prohibit one from committing atrocities.

I do not want to drag this on further. Thanks for your reference.

 

[Vaagmi]

post #251:

My larger point is that human beings behave similarly when conditions are similar no matter where they are born. There are many in USA that are in denial that US army is capable of torturing its captives. This is because people place inapplicable value on something that is not there. Atrocities do get committed in wars and by few people when they have the opportunity and freedom to do so.

90,000 soldiers is not a small number. It represents a few Divisions of the Pak army. The Indian army which captured them and disarmed them had several options--Geneva agreement or no Geneva agreement. They were 1. select a few of the soldiers at random at a time and leave them to the mercy of the rape victims of erstwhile East Pakistan to be lynched slowly and deliberately 2. Shoot to kill a few of them and claim that they tried to escape and so were shot. etc., etc.,

Indian army did none of these.

They were all carefully transported to India by train spending a huge amount so that they were away from the hands of the newly formed nation which could have taken revenge.

They were treated as POW meticulously as per the Geneva convention and handed over to Pakistan.

Indians did not raise any objection to any of these steps taken by Indian Government. And, this is most important, Indians were never in need of being in any denial mode about atrocities on Pak POW.

Now compare this with the statement in the quoted passage above.

The army, the Government etc are made of people and the collective value of these institutions are just the aggregate of the values of Individuals who make them. Indians are different and that is why the every POW who went back home will be for ever thankful to Indians in his heart of heart.

As a corollary the question naturally comes to the mind as to why should that innocent little naked vietnamese girl in flames be made to run for her life-her only crime was that she lived in a small village in a forest, which a certain army wanted to destroy without bothering about the level of collateral damage that will be inflicted. It is for citizens(natural and naturalized) of the Haven on earth to ponder and find an answer as to why their army behaved that way.