Who is brahmanan

[Nara]

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Nara ji Though I found yr comment humorous,Raji Ram ji s sentiment might be hurt.

Dear krish44, from what I have observed in the forum, and IMHO, Mrs. RR is a lovely person, I don't think she has a disagreeable bone in her body. But, the underlying message in her post was disagreeable. I have no doubt such a thought was far from her consciousness. However, it is our duty to dig into our subconscious and excise all the indoctrination we have all suffered.

 

[krish44]

Dear krish44, from what I have observed in the forum, and IMHO, Mrs. RR is a lovely person, I don't think she has a disagreeable bone in her body. But, the underlying message in her post was disagreeable. I have no doubt such a thought was far from her consciousness. However, it is our duty to dig into our subconscious and excise all the indoctrination we have all suffered.

Every human wants to belong to a privileged class. brahmin collects his privilege due to his birth like MPs claim as peoples representatives or a child from a corporates family on the basis of his parents position and wealth.I do not want to enter into a discussion whether it is moral or not Frankly if you found her post disagreeable ,so be it. No right is conferred on you to judge and give moral judgements . To suggest digging into subconscious and advising excise of all indoctrination is unwanted and unwarranted. I wonder whether you want to become a new age guru leading us thru new paths of salvaging our soul after purging us of something we got due to accident of birth in a brahmin family

 

[renuka]

Dear Krish ji,

I dont think Nara was talking about caste or targeting Brahmins in his reply.

Many people from other communities too do the same..they like to say 'Oh you are not like your caste/community you are like one of us"
This is the time where the extension of the Madhyama Anguli works best!LOL

The simple thing to remember is we need to respect anyone..by thinking that someone good is like us that shows that we do not acknowledge goodness in other communities in the sense that this must be some freak case.. and also we fail to do some self introspection.

Every tribe in this world comes with their fair share of the good,bad and ugly.

So it is hard to generalize that some tribes are good and some tribes are bad.

BTW it is considered an insult to one's mother to change the community name of a person.

 

[Nara]

... I wonder whether you want to become a new age guru leading us thru new paths of salvaging our soul after purging us of something we got due to accident of birth in a brahmin family

You may wonder whatever your mind is capable of, I don't care. Mrs. RR, a fine and gentle woman she is, said something that had an unsavory subtext. All I did was shine a light on it. If she thinks I was out of line, let her say so, and I will deal with her, you can go and jump in the nearest lake or pond you can find, LOL....

 

[Nara]

This canard that somehow good character defines who a Brahmin is, is so ingrained that even otherwise nice and reasonable people seem to accept it in a kind of default way. I beseech these otherwise reasonable folks to stop for a moment and think about what they are saying. If good character defines Brahmins, then what defines a Shudra? Folks, I am not your enemy, all I want to be is a witness to your conscience, and if that is presumptuous of me I apologize.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Mrs. RR, you have missed my point. Renuka got it, please take a look at her post #22 above ....

:nono: Prof Sir!

Brahmins are NOT supposed to eat non.veg. Hence my dad called him Iyer.

All others in his house were eating non.veg. OK! What is wrong to THINK that a dear friend is from our clan? :grouphug:

BTW, Renu was a bit upset when one of her dear ones married a Muslim girl, if I remember correct!

 

[renuka]

BTW, Renu was a bit upset when one of her dear ones married a Muslim girl, if I remember correct!

Dear RR ji,


Well my own Great Grandmum was a Muslim who married into a Hindu family but since that happened in India and no conversion took place that made the rest of us still remaining as Hindus.

Yes..you are right..I was upset when the near and dear one married a Muslim cos I had to deal with 2 severely depressed elderly individuals... cos out here when one marries a Muslim one has to convert, and name and everything changes.

It is not like in India how Hema Malini converted to Islam for namesake to marry Dharmendra but she will be able to live and die a Hindu.

Here its different..hence people feel upset.

On a personal note I do not have anything against any religion and till today I do not try to give any Non Hindu person/Relative any Hindu Pseudonyms.

She is a good person and I never try to make her to be my clan.

So I hope you understand the difference how my mind works.

 

[Raji Ram]

Nara ji Though I found yr comment humorous,Raji Ram ji s sentiment might be hurt. she was referring to a muslim with veg preference along with other traits identified with her caste. ........

Dear Sir,

No sentiments hurt! In fact my dad never discriminated between his patients based on caste (FYI, he was a medical practitioner)
He was neither strictly orthodox nor visited temples daily! But he taught us to be kind to everyone and help people in need, always! :angel:

 

[Nara]

. OK! What is wrong to THINK that a dear friend is from our clan?

That is exactly why I wondered whether Wahabji ever said your dad was an honorary Muslim?

 

[Raji Ram]

.........
She is a good person and I never try to make to be my clan.

So I hope you understand the difference how my mind works.

Yes!!

 

[Raji Ram]

That is exactly why I wondered whether Wahabji ever said your dad was an honorary Muslim?

No Sir! But he liked to be called 'Wahab Iyer' by my dad!

Though me dad NEVER had an ego to be a brahmin, many of his patients called him 'sAmi'!

 

[krish44]

I have noticed many times even in case of Dr APJ Abdul Kalam being referred to as Kalam Iyer.

This I feel is not fair to the community Dr APJ is from..that is we are not giving due credit to a person.

I have seen that Hindus tend to do this..when they meet a person from a different community or religion whom they feel is good etc..they become like an Amoeba and use their pseudopodia to enclose the person by calling him "Oh he is not like a Muslim/Christian..he is like a Hindu and give him some Hindu Pseudonym"

I feel this can be considered sort of an insult as to not to acknowledge that goodness can be present in anyone and is not the sole patented copy right of Hindus or any Hindu Subcaste.

As humans the least we can do is to recognize that goodness can exists in anyone and everyone and we might actually not even measure up to the other person.

Being born in a brahmin family ,many believe gives them the previlege to decide whether some belonging to other castes/religions can be admitted into their fold based on their food preferances and other behavioural traits and confer a title belonging to their community on them to say you are one of us. Hindu brahmins consider themself to be most holy with all the goodness in them and they look down on everyone else. It comes naturally to them . Hinduism has great capacity for absorption . Jains,buddhists have become part of the hindu religion and hindus have treated mahavira and buddha as avathars of God. Sikhs have escaped this fate so far. Muslims and christians are more rigid and do not tolerate the hindu appraoch. muslims/christians are marginilised communities in india Their fate is likely to get worse if a certain party gets political power

 

[tks]

My dad had a close friend named Wahab, who was nicknamed 'mittAy thAthA' by my sisters kids. He used to visit our house every

morning to greet my dad. He did not eat non.veg stuff, smoke or drink alcohol. My dad used to refer to him as 'Wahab Iyer'!

This Iyer was so much attached to my dad that he was NOT alive to hear the news of the demise of my dad. He passed away the

very next day! I have written about this friendship in a literature thread.

The expression 'Wahab Iyer' by itself has neither merit or demerit associated with it.
However it can come across as a serious insult/condescending expression or just a show of respect based on where the listener's mind is.

If the various caste or race titles are how one views the world (even if they mean well) this will come across as insult.
If they truly do not have any sense of caste hierarchy in their mind this expression comes across as just an expression of brotherly love!

If the caste hierarchy is present in the mind this could come across to some as an expression of a progressive Brahmin ..

Caste and other differentiation are human imposed on human beings. One can have differentiation as a tag or identity to describe a culture which by itself is innocuous. Or the differentiation may come across as an expression of a hierarchy in which case depending on which side one is on there will be possibly strong reaction.

In other words we see the world the way we are not the way it is.

When I read this I just thought it was simply an expression of brotherly love and nothing more.

 

[renuka]

Being born in a brahmin family ,many believe gives them the previlege to decide whether some belonging to other castes/religions can be admitted into their fold based on their food preferances and other behavioural traits and confer a title belonging to their community on them to say you are one of us. Hindu brahmins consider themself to be most holy with all the goodness in them and they look down on everyone else. It comes naturally to them . Hinduism has great capacity for absorption . Jains,buddhists have become part of the hindu religion and hindus have treated mahavira and buddha as avathars of God. Sikhs have escaped this fate so far. Muslims and christians are more rigid and do not tolerate the hindu appraoch. muslims/christians are marginilised communities in india Their fate is likely to get worse if a certain party gets political power

Dear Krish ji,

I have no problems who thinks what of themselves as long they give the due respect to others and not play Ameoba Pseudopodia and try to make anyone good into their clan.

That is totally not within the scope of rational thinking anymore.

 

[Raji Ram]

The expression 'Wahab Iyer' by itself has neither merit or demerit associated with it. .........
When I read this I just thought it was simply an expression of brotherly love and nothing more.

You are absolutely right Sir! My dad never thought that brahmins are in a higher level than other humans!

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,

I have no problems who thinks what of themselves as long they give the due respect to others and not play Ameoba Pseudopodia and try to make anyone good into their clan.

That is totally not within the scope of rational thinking anymore.

Rji I never talked about the morality or rationality of this hindu brahmin way of thinking.
it is likely to get worse as this is a byproduct of caste ,community based reservation systems foisted on india based on theories of social justice.Brahmin is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste and behave more irrationally than before

 

[renuka]

Rji I never talked about the morality or rationality of this hindu brahmin way of thinking.
it is likely to get worse as this is a byproduct of caste ,community based reservation systems foisted on india based on theories of social justice.Brahmin is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste and behave more irrationally than before

Dear Krish ji,

Actually if you read my last few replies..I have never named any caste and never even mentioned the word Brahmin as in targetting any caste.My post were quite neutral that we need to give anyone their due respect and not claim they are like us etc. I think it was you who thought that Nara ji was targeting Brahmins.
So I also wonder why you keep mentioning about caste in your replies.

For me I view all humans as the same but at the same time we need to respect their individuality.

I enjoy being a member in this TB forum and also a being a member in a Dalit blog cos it nice to see how different minds think.

So you see I have no problems if a Brahmin or Dalit is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste as long everyone acknowledges there can be goodness in anyone.

 

[krish44]

You may wonder whatever your mind is capable of, I don't care. Mrs. RR, a fine and gentle woman she is, said something that had an unsavory subtext. All I did was shine a light on it. If she thinks I was out of line, let her say so, and I will deal with her, you can go and jump in the nearest lake or pond you can find, LOL....

lead kindly light guru nara ji

 

[sravna]

Dear Krish ji,

Actually if you read my last few replies..I have never named any caste and never even mentioned the word Brahmin.My post were quite neutral that we need to give anyone their due respect and not claim they are like us etc. I think it was you who thought that Nara ji was targeting Brahmins.
So I also wonder why you keep mentioning about caste in your replies.

For me I view all humans as the same but at the same time we need to respect their individuality.

I enjoy being a member in this TB forum and also a being a member in a Dalit blog cos it nice to see how different minds think.

So you see I have no problems if Brahmin or Dalit is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste as long everyone acknowledges there is goodness in everyone.

Dear Renuka,

The basis of division into different groups is as universal and timeless as it can get. This is because anywhere in the universe and anytime these differences are bound to exist. Thus not being based on artificial considerations, I think Smt. RR ji is not wrong in saying someone as a brahmin based on his mental traits. I think we can use these same mental traits to call someone a brahmin some millions of light years away from our planet or a million years from now. That may not hold for other classifications.

 

[renuka]

an expression of brotherly love and nothing more.

Dear TKS ji,

You do have your point but how many upper caste Hindus will accept if a Dalit calls him "You are my Dalit brother"?

 

[tks]

You are absolutely right Sir! My dad never thought that brahmins are in a higher level than other humans!

Let me describe summary of a conversation I had with a very close Muslim friend of mine some years ago.
Depending on how one views the world they may or may not take this as humerus or insult...

My friend of did not get his visa renewal in time for him to go to India to attend his brother's wedding.
There was a very good chance he may not be able to get back to USA especially with a name he had..

(As it turned out he did get detained for almost a year and got back but that is besides the point)

He prays 5 times a day even at work place and is very devout Muslim (let me call him M by the initial of his first name)

Here is a summary of conversation before he went back to India for his visit..
======

Me: I hope you are praying to Allah to make sure your Visa processing happens smoothly

M: I never do that, I go for something much larger ..

Me: Really, what is that ...

M: I pray for paradise ..

Me: Wait a minute - if you got permit to go to Paradise what will happen to the rest of us

M: Actually I pray that you go to Paradise too .. you see I pray for all the people I like

Me: Not sure how I can thank you, wait a minute what if I can prove to you there is no paradise

M: You can never do that ,, I know you are wrong but just in case you are wrong you are covered with my prayer

Me: OK, I will make a deal .. I will go and break a Cocunut at a temple near by so you can get you visa .. just in case (laughing)

M: I think if your God can help me there please pray for my visa

Me: OK that is a deal .. by the way do you know that I am a Hindu Brahmin and my words carry a lot of weight .. I shall do a prayer towards your visa resolution ...

M: That is a deal .. paradise for visa

=====================

I am not much into rituals and of course I did not break any coconut for his Visa resolution.

In the above exchange there was no intent to act as if one is superior.

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

You do have your point but how many upper caste Hindus will accept if a Dalit calls him "You are my Dalit brother"?

Dr Renu

You are absolutely right that many will not accept it but they have embedded hierarchy in their mind with a serious sense of insecurity. They will see the world the way they are.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

The basis of division into different groups is as universal and timeless as it can get. This is because anywhere in the universe and anytime these differences are bound to exist. Thus not being based on artificial considerations, I think Smt. RR ji is not wrong in saying someone as a brahmin based on his mental traits. I think we can use these same mental traits to call someone a brahmin some millions of light years away from our planet or a million years from now. That may not hold for other classifications.

Dear Sravna,

I do not believe in the classification of Guna Varna(Varna based on Gunas)..that was never ever practiced anywhere.

Even Yuddhisthira in his conversation with the Yaksha was giving some cock and bull that one is a Brahmin by gunas etc.

You see if what he said is true that Varna is not based on birth but based on Gunas then why Yudhisthira always called Karna a Suta Putra?

Didn't Karna display Kshatriya Guna?

Only after Yuddhi knew that the slain Karna was his brother only then his mindset changed.

Varna is by birth and that is no doubt of that and there is nothing wrong with that as long mutual respect exists.

Calling another person another Varna equals to the most feared by some... 'Varnasankarah"

 

[renuka]

Dr Renu

You are absolutely right that many will not accept it but they have embedded hierarchy in their mind with a serious sense of insecurity. They will see the world the way they are.

Dear TKS ji,

I am glad you agreed with me..this is reality.

So brotherhood in the real sense can never exists but mutual respect can.

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

I am glad you agreed with me..this is reality.

So brotherhood in the real sense can never exists but mutual respect can.

Brotherhood and respect can both exist - but depends on the people involved and their maturity level.
It is not relevant how many people can do this etc because ignorance is the prevailing factor ruling the mind of most human beings.