Who is brahmanan

[krish44]

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Now I feel sad for dragging the nice friendship of my dad with Wahab Ji in this thread!

My their souls pardon me! :hail:

RRji I pity you .you seem to have provoked a caste war by making innocent comment about your dad and wahabji .may their souls rest
in peace

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Zebra ji,

I dont know why..but I feel Nara ji is being misunderstood here.

The fact remains is if we try to give a caste pseudonym to anyone else who is not of our caste becos we feel he or she displays favorable qualities that only goes to show that we did not feel his/her caste is capable of having such an individual.

I think that was what Nara ji was trying to convey...wonder why no one is reading his post like how I am reading.

Now let me put a question like this..would it be a compliment to an Upper caste Hindu if a Dalit would give the upper caste a Dalit tag?? Wont all hell break loose? Even the upper caste that does not practice his Svadharma would get real mad I am pretty sure.

In this no world one needs compliments or insults..just mutual respect would do.

Best example was when Mandela died..many Indians were calling him the Gandhi of South Africa..tell me was that fair? Mandela did not have to be Gandhi to be acknowledged..he was great in his own right.

Doctor, forget Brahmin Dalit yada yada.. there's this universal tonic binding all castes, creeds, colors, races, religions, even animals.. some call it whisky, some vodka, some beer, some wine, some absinthe, some rum.. this universal equalizer is basically alcohol.. even the "gods" love it!

 

[Vaagmi]

post#29 and 30:

You may wonder whatever your mind is capable of, I don't care. Mrs. RR, a fine and gentle woman she is, said something that had an unsavory subtext. All I did was shine a light on it. If she thinks I was out of line, let her say so, and I will deal with her, you can go and jump in the nearest lake or pond you can find, LOL....

This canard that somehow good character defines who a Brahmin is, is so ingrained that even otherwise nice and reasonable people seem to accept it in a kind of default way. I beseech these otherwise reasonable folks to stop for a moment and think about what they are saying. If good character defines Brahmins, then what defines a Shudra? Folks, I am not your enemy, all I want to be is a witness to your conscience, and if that is presumptuous of me I apologize.

RR madam,

You should never be proud of being a brahmin. There is no heritage/culture/unique traits which are worth feeling proud of for a brahmin. If you say anything bordering on such an appreciation of a brahmin trait/desirable quality of a brahmin/brahmin culture or heritage, people here will read cleverly a sub-text in it and haul you through the coal. Such simple pleasures of ordinary human beings are certainly not for brahmins. People will go to the extent of asking you to rummage through your conscience and come up with an excuse for what you said. Things like this and "oh that US girl came into our family as d-in law: come markazhy, everyday morning she recites thiruppavai like a brahmin girl" are all a strict no no to a brahmin. The entire US may go up in fire to singe India. Khobragade may be arrested again and put in jail for a 120 years.

The high priests of the forum will declare you a tankaiah and hound you out. Be careful. LOL.

 

[sravna]

post#29 and 30:



RR madam,

You should never be proud of being a brahmin. There is no heritage/culture/unique traits which are worth feeling proud of for a brahmin. If you say anything bordering on such an appreciation of a brahmin trait/desirable quality of a brahmin/brahmin culture or heritage, people here will read cleverly a sub-text in it and haul you through the coal. Such simple pleasures of ordinary human beings are certainly not for brahmins. People will go to the extent of asking you to rummage through your conscience and come up with an excuse for what you said. Things like this and "oh that US girl came into our family as d-in law: come markazhy, everyday morning she recites thiruppavai like a brahmin girl" are all a strict no no to a brahmin. The entire US may go up in fire to singe India. Khobragade may be arrested again and put in jail for a 120 years.

The high priests of the forum will declare you a tankaiah and hound you out. Be careful. LOL.

Nice post

 

[renuka]

Dear Krish ji,

I remember when I was young aged some 12- 13 my mum used to tell us stories about the greatness of Hindus etc and I listened to her even when she used to say unproven stuff like the Mayans of South America were actually from India(this is still subject to controversy)

So you see at the age I believed what ever she said but surprisingly when she told this same stuff to my son who is aged 13 now..he called her a racists!

He said "how can you think like a racists that only we Indians are the greatest and totally disregard the the greatness of any other civilization?"

So you see mindset has changed..never mess with a teen of this era.

 

[krish44]

Dear Zebra ji,

I dont know why..but I feel Nara ji is being misunderstood here.

The fact remains is if we try to give a caste pseudonym to anyone else who is not of our caste becos we feel he or she displays favorable qualities that only goes to show that we did not feel his/her caste is capable of having such an individual.

I think that was what Nara ji was trying to convey...wonder why no one is reading his post like how I am reading.

Now let me put a question like this..would it be a compliment to an Upper caste Hindu if a Dalit would give the upper caste a Dalit tag?? Wont all hell break loose? Even the upper caste that does not practice his Svadharma would get real mad I am pretty sure.

In this no world one needs compliments or insults..just mutual respect would do.

Best example was when Mandela died..many Indians were calling him the Gandhi of South Africa..tell me was that fair? Mandela did not have to be Gandhi to be acknowledged..he was great in his own right.

Frankly I think there is a lot of over reaction . If one says Mandela was gandhi of south africa , It is only addressing indians and conveying that south african s feeling for mandela is similar to Indians feelings for gandhi.Where do compliments or insults enter into it. Any comparison is made only communicate in simpler language the feelings and thoughts to ordinary people . It is not to put down any caste or race. or show them in poor light. your inferences are faulty in my opinion. I do not know if I am correct. pardon me if I am wrong

 

[renuka]

Doctor, forget Brahmin Dalit yada yada.. there's this universal tonic binding all castes, creeds, colors, races, religions, even animals.. some call it whisky, some vodka, some beer, some wine, some absinthe, some rum.. this universal equalizer is basically alcohol.. even the "gods" love it!

Ash,

LOL! Yup I forgot!

 

[renuka]

Frankly I think there is a lot of over reaction . If one says Mandela was gandhi of south africa , It is only addressing indians and conveying that south african s feeling for mandela is similar to Indians feelings for gandhi.Where do compliments or insults enter into it. Any comparison is made only communicate in simpler language the feelings and thoughts to ordinary people . It is not to put down any caste or race. or show them in poor light. your inferences are faulty in my opinion. I do not know if I am correct. pardon me if I am wrong

Dear Krish ji,

I give up..I dont think anyone understands what I want to convey besides one or two members.
I am not over reacting..the over reaction feeling is when we think "that anyone good is like one of us".

We need to keep sentiments out when we want to view anything through neutral lenses.

 

[Vaagmi]

post #74:

Dear Renuka,

Dear Zebra ji,
I dont know why..but I feel Nara ji is being misunderstood here.
The fact remains is if we try to give a caste pseudonym to anyone else who is not of our caste becos we feel he or she displays favorable qualities that only goes to show that we did not feel his/her caste is capable of having such an [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]individual[/COLOR].
I think that was what Nara ji was trying to convey...wonder why no one is reading his post like how I am reading.
Now let me put a question like this..would it be a compliment to an Upper caste Hindu if a Dalit would give the upper caste a Dalit tag?? Wont all hell break loose? Even the upper caste that does not practice his Svadharma would get real mad I am pretty sure.
In this no world one needs compliments or insults..just mutual respect would do.
Best example was when Mandela died..many Indians were calling him the Gandhi of South Africa..tell me was that fair? Mandela did not have to be Gandhi to be acknowledged..he was great in his own right.

There is no misunderstanding. If anything the understanding is perfect and that is the problem. A simple innocent statement made by RR has been pulled out of context, selectively highlighted, its imagined innards brought out, analysed threadbare, motives imputed, criticised recklessly, used to trivialize and mock at a community-all done because of somebody's tendency to pick holes in anything said about brahmins. When are we going to enjoy our follies and innocent foibles without feeling guilty? The intellectual load is playing havoc.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Ash,

LOL! Yup I forgot!

Even Chandalas are brahmins by varna, the Dom raja of Benares is a brahmin too, albeit descended from a fallen one..he controls the lucrative cremation mafia..

 

[renuka]

post #74:

Dear Renuka,



There is no misunderstanding. If anything the understanding is perfect and that is the problem. A simple innocent statement made by RR has been pulled out of context, selectively highlighted, its imagined innards brought out, analysed threadbare, motives imputed, criticised recklessly, used to trivialize and mock at a community-all done because of somebody's tendency to pick holes in anything said about brahmins. When are we going to enjoy our follies and innocent foibles without feeling guilty? The intellectual load is playing havoc.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

You guys are keeping past issues in mind with Nara ji when reading his posts.

Its not tendencies to find fault etc its just talking about how we tend to view things by always comparing others with ourselves and not giving anyone their due credit.

RR ji might have just written a comment innocently as you rightly said but I do not see any harm in Nara ji pointing out to something he did not agree with.

RR jis understood the post and also my post to her thats why she asked me about me being upset with a muslim marriage in my family to which I answered her and she understood my stance.

We are just seeking answers here..no one is starting a caste war.

Ok Vaagmi ji..let me ask you point blank..I dont like to start caste wars.. why should anyone be given a caste pseudonym to start with and expect that person to take it as a compliment? Why cant we just acknowledge the other person without giving him a new caste tag?

Would you mind if someone called you for example Vaagmi Iyer when you are an Iyengar??

Even a Vadakalai wont tolerate being called a Thenkalai..need I say more?

 

[Jaykay767]

DidWahab refer to your dad as <your dad's name> sahibu because he cared forpoor people, basic human dignity, etc.?

Hello Nara,

RR made a very innocent comment to which you have attributed an unsavory motive! This is not fair !

for the anti-brahmins, the brahmins can do no right. RR’s father & Wahab had a fantastic friendship which should be celebrated.

Lets assume you are correct – my apologies to RR’s father, so what is the problem? So your accusation is that Brahmins think they are superior. It is pointless to argue with you – lets assume you are right – so what are we doing with this superiority complex – are we hurting & upsetting others? And why should you be so upset coz some ormost or all brahmins think they are superior? Since you are a prof, I assume you have figured out a way to find out that all brahmins feel they are superior– LOL !

I also saw some other post where you suddenly seemed to have developed some modicum of respect for the Pope after having been a staunch atheist - LOL. Obviously it means you did not respect the previous pope (White Man) but a modicum of respect for the new Pope (Latino). If an African or Dalit becomes a Pope, you will convert to Christianity J LOL - Amazing!!

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - I have to disagree with you here. RR is not the kind of person who will make veiled remarks of Brahmin superiority. Most of us here can see that she made a innocent remark to which Nara's response was uncalled for. I can understand his response if some of the staunch brahminists had made such statements. Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - It is like a white man addressing a African person as a black man today !. In the near past, this was acceptable, but today, it is unacceptable coz some people decided to move the goal post. so whites can only call them as African American etc.. so all of us know that RR's father did not mean to put down Wahab, on the contrary, they had a fantastic relationship & this happened in the distant past. Hence Nara's comment was totally uncalled for. Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka - I have to disagree with you here. RR is not the kind of person who will make veiled remarks of Brahmin superiority. Most of us here can see that she made a innocent remark to which Nara's response was uncalled for. I can understand his response if some of the staunch brahminists had made such statements. Cheers,

Dear JK,

RR ji and I share a close relationship..I know she did not mean any superiority feeling here.Didnt you read my post where I said she could have written it innocently?
But the fact remains that we should not change anyones caste tag hence my comments.

I think I made myself clear in all my post and she herself knows me very well that I wont think anything negative about her.

 

[Jaykay767]

DearJK,

RR ji and I share a close relationship..I know she did not mean any superiorityfeeling here.Didnt you read my post where I said she could have written itinnocently?
But the fact remains that we should not change anyones caste tag hence mycomments.

I think I made myself clear in all my post and she herself knows me very wellthat I wont think anything negative about her.

Hi Renuka,

Kindly refer my post #89. This is what I call changing the goal post. Some things are acceptable today, which may not be acceptable tomorrow. Lets take the LGBT example, in the past, everyone unanimously shunned them, but today no one wants to be seen as opposing them in public!.

Yes, agree, we should not call others with our surnames, but this is a new goal post which did not exist earlier. I can show you many instances where people have routinely made such comments in the past by pre-fixing their surnames to others.

More importantly Nara’s comment was absolutely uncalled for saying basic human dignity. In this case, RR’s father & Wahab shared a very personal bond that transcends all this.

Cheers,

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear JK,

RR ji and I share a close relationship..I know she did not mean any superiority feeling here.Didnt you read my post where I said she could have written it innocently?
But the fact remains that we should not change anyones caste tag hence my comments.

I think I made myself clear in all my post and she herself knows me very well that I wont think anything negative about her.

Who is a Brahmin anyway? Recent converts to Iyengarism like DA Joseph? The Chandalas and the Dom Raja who belong to the Brahmin varna? The Viswakarmas and Asaris? The Sivachariars? The Palakkad Iyers who are neither part of the Kerala caste hierarchy nor Tamilnadu? The Namboodiris? The Bhumihars and Kayasthas? The GSBs of Konkan? Or the Meitei Brahmins of Manipur who are officially declared as scheduled castes??

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,

I give up..I dont think anyone understands what I want to convey besides one or two members.
I am not over reacting..the over reaction feeling is when we think "that anyone good is like one of us".

We need to keep sentiments out when we want to view anything through neutral lenses.

renuka ji
again let me explain.If I say you look good like many girls of my community ,it does not mean there are no good looking girls in your community in case your community is different. It is an inference you have drawn on your own . One statement does not imply the other.this is not a community issue. it is only your expectation for better sensitivity towards your community not getting fulfilled that is hurting you. you cannot expect everyone to have neutral lenses. this is the harsh reality of life as it exists

 

[Raji Ram]

RRji I pity you .you seem to have provoked a caste war by making innocent comment about your dad and wahabji .may their souls rest in peace

Dear Sir,

They were very good human beings and I am sure their souls will rest in peace.

That is why I requested for their pardon!

 

[renuka]

renuka ji
again let me explain.If I say you look good like many girls of my community ,it does not mean there are no good looking girls in your community in case your community is different.

You must be having a strong sixth sense. How did you know I was good looking?
I see no harm to "praise" myself here and welcome any good looking person to join my community! LOL!

 

[ashwin_ash]

This subject has been discussed a number of times in Tamil Brahmin Forum. However I give below another quote from The Yakhsa Prashna (also known as the Dharma Baka Upakhyan: Story of the Righteous Crane) appears in the Vana Parva (or Aranyaka-parva or Aranya-parva) of the great epic, the Mahabharata. Yaksha is non other than Yama Dharma, father of Yudhishtira. Thus Yaksha Prashna is considered "An Encounter Between Dharma, The Father And Yudhishtira, The Son" .


Q: Yaksha: 'By what, O king, birth, behavior, study, or learning does a person become a Brahmana? Tell us with conviction!'

A: Yudhishtira: 'Listen, O Yaksha! It is neither birth, nor study, nor learning that is the cause of Brahmanahood. Without any doubt, it is behavior that constitutes it. One's behavior should always be well-guarded, especially by a Brahmana. He who maintains his conduct unimpaired, is never impaired himself. Be it a Guru or a Sishya, in fact, all who study the scriptures, if addicted to wicked habits, are to be regarded as illiterate wretches. He only is learned who performs his religious duties. He even that has studied the four Vedas is to be regarded as a wicked wretch. He who performs the Agnihotra and has his senses under control, is called a 'Brahmana!'

Ofcourse, very few will qualify to be called "Brahmana" under this definition.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Brahmanyan Uncle,

I now know who a Brahmin is. Agnihotram refers to the act of smoking cigarette and beedi. So anyone who smokes beedi and cigarette is a Brahmin.

 

[renuka]

it is only your expectation for better sensitivity towards your community not getting fulfilled that is hurting you.

Nope..this is not very accurate..Mandela was not my Mama or Machan to start with but I felt strongly in another thread that he was great on his own without the Gandhi tag.

Somehow you just do not seem to get what I am trying to convey.

 

[Jaykay767]

HiRenuka,

Let me try & clarify here. If Nara had NOT referred to RR’s father & NOT made the basic human dignity comment & instead said – “I know RR’s father did not mean any disrespect, however I don’t think it is right to pre-fix our surnames to others” – then most or all of us would have appreciated his inputs. He chose to deride the friendship by questioning it !!. Also I said, I didn't agree with you is because - if RR's father & Wahab are okay with each other's comments, then why should this be a problem ?. But if you make a generic comment like the mandela/Gandhi one, that we should not pre-fix the surnames, then I agree with you !!

Nara on the other hand has let himself loose on the hapless brahmanas in this forum with his virulent anti-Brahmin & atheist views. If he had come up with an alternate view ofthe creation of Universe, then we can debate it. His views are based on some silly western thought who came up with the mind-body problem only recently that too after reading some tid bits of our philosophy & then decided there is no God !!

Our Rishis are Great Geniuses & unparalled/unmatched in history, they not only worked on the mind-body problem, semi & pure consciousness, dream state,Brahman, Atma, Jiva etc.., 1000s of years back, they also resolved it, showing us the path of salvation !!

If he hasany genuine contributions to our discussions, he is most welcome, but his only focus seems to be to taunt the brahmins, insult them, & derail our philosophy / discussions. I remember he did the same with Sravna’s brilliant analysis on Brahma sutras some time back.

Cheers,

 

[renuka]

HiRenuka,

Let me try & clarify here. If Nara had NOT referred to RR’s father & NOT made the basichuman dignity comment & instead said – “I know RR’s father did not mean anydisrespect, however I don’t think it is right to pre-fix our surnames toothers” – then most or all of us would have appreciated his inputs. He chose to deride the friendship by questioning it !!. Also I said, I didn't agree with you is because - if RR's father & Wahab are okay with each other's comments, then why should this be a problem ?.

Dear JK,

RR ji did not have any problems with me and Nara ji at all..she replied our questions and also asked me a question to which I replied.

No one is finding fault with RR Ji here yaar..dont you guys get it?

OMG I feel now everything is blown out of proportion and context.

I rest my case and totally give up.

 

[ashwin_ash]

HiRenuka,

Let me try & clarify here. If Nara had NOT referred to RR’s father & NOT made the basic human dignity comment & instead said – “I know RR’s father did not mean any disrespect, however I don’t think it is right to pre-fix our surnames to others” – then most or all of us would have appreciated his inputs. He chose to deride the friendship by questioning it !!. Also I said, I didn't agree with you is because - if RR's father & Wahab are okay with each other's comments, then why should this be a problem ?. But if you make a generic comment like the mandela/Gandhi one, that we should not pre-fix the surnames, then I agree with you !!

Nara on the other hand has let himself loose on the hapless brahmanas in this forum with his virulent anti-Brahmin & atheist views. If he had come up with an alternate view ofthe creation of Universe, then we can debate it. His views are based on some silly western thought who came up with the mind-body problem only recently that too after reading some tid bits of our philosophy & then decided there is no God !!

Our Rishis are Great Geniuses & unparalled/unmatched in history, they not only worked on the mind-body problem, semi & pure consciousness, dream state,Brahman, Atma, Jiva etc.., 1000s of years back, they also resolved it, showing us the path of salvation !!

If he hasany genuine contributions to our discussions, he is most welcome, but his only focus seems to be to taunt the brahmins, insult them, & derail our philosophy / discussions. I remember he did the same with Sravna’s brilliant analysis on Brahma sutras some time back.

Cheers,

Jaykay,

Here's an observation about Nara:

Nara cannot wear his hatred on his sleeves in India, he can choose to do so from the comfort of his living room in the States. Like I maintain, he must try to sell his atheistic (atheism is not wrong, using atheism to spread hatred is so so wrong) agenda in the states such as Alabama, Louisiana and so on. He can also educate the populace of those states on Big River and his hate filled agenda, he might find himself in prison for slander.

Big River referred to Islamists as "dirty treacherous Saibus" and to Dalit women as topless night soil gatherers. Big River may have roused the consciousness of some, but certainly not many. A 90 year old man marrying a teen can never be revered even among hardcore ideologists.

Btw, all those who smoke beedi cigarettes are Brahmins (the Agnihotra theory!)