Who is brahmanan

[sarang]

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Illiterate is another word we have assimilated from the west. All hindus have wisdom inherited from their parents, family, society and the learned. Reading or writing a script is called literacy now. Most of our ancestors irrespective nor varna or jati or gender were well versed in spiritual and loukika literature, had huge memory, enviable skills in all fields. The english have foisted the word 'illiterate' on us and we now claim 60 to 70 % of the population is illiterate.

The ladies of the house, irrespective of their status and station in life were well informed and wise. All pattis are worthy of respect and affection.

I have requested several times not to refer to widowed brahmin woman as 'mo---- pA--i' but one member repeatedly uses the same.

Disgusting! It does not end with that. One illiterate old widow is compared to my father who was outstanding in studies and considered

next to God in our village. And one 'like' clicked for that irritating post! For heavens sake, please stop this.

There is NO NEED to comment about a person whom you have not SEEN even once in your life time! Thank you.

 

[sravna]

Illiterate is another word we have assimilated from the west. All hindus have wisdom inherited from their parents, family, society and the learned. Reading or writing a script is called literacy now. Most of our ancestors irrespective nor varna or jati or gender were well versed in spiritual and loukika literature, had huge memory, enviable skills in all fields. The english have foisted the word 'illiterate' on us and we now claim 60 to 70 % of the population is illiterate.

The ladies of the house, irrespective of their status and station in life were well informed and wise. All pattis are worthy of respect and affection.

Dear Shri Sarang,

What is surprising is that the westerners were able to make others believe in the supremacy of their ideas. Most surprisingly even many brahmins fell for it and are falling for it.

You have very correctly pointed out how the word illiterate that is used to describe a large section of India gives a very wrong idea about them. What is far more important is the ability to read the message hidden in the worldly experiences and not literally interpret them. In that way, I think there are far more learned people in India than in any other country , thanks to our spiritual heritage. The only danger is that if things that seem to start going in a regressive way due to embracing of western culture does continue that way.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear JK,

We need all sorts of post to keep anything interesting..who wants to be boring and prim and proper 24/7..beedi,beer,dharu sharu,scandalous post,imaginary post..whats wrong yaar?

After all we all do read your unproven research too and find it at times unbelievable and at times factual.

BTW even if anyone is an Authority on anything here I am sure they do have some sense of humor or a crazy side.

So relax and enjoy yaar.

Let the Dapankuttu begin!

Dear Doctor,

Thanks for understanding me in the right spirit. Pray tell me this. The people in this forum discuss Vedas, Advaita, Dudvaita, Mimamsa, Samosa etc. You are heading towards becoming an authority in Sanskrit. I am an authority on nothing, I have very cursory knowledge of geography, western classical, tantra, English and so on.

However, what's the use of all the knowledge? Someday you'll end up a pile of ashes. Isn't that knowledge enough to bring people down to earth?

 

[sravna]

Dear Ashwin,

If I may intrude,

Knowledge which is universal helps us to apply it irrespective of where we are and so if we can acquire that knowledge like the laws of science we do not have to spend time acquiring such knowledge if we are to inhabit any other part of the universe. So practically it has its use. Similarly if we can acquire knowledge that is timeless we can use such knowledge irrespective of the time we are in. In a sense we are conquering the uncertainties associated with a different space and time.

From the point of view of Hinduism, knowledge which is considered timeless i.e, the spiritual knowledge talks of a timeless entity, the soul which it says is the real self. So you may not be really turning in to ashes but live on and use every knowledge acquired to advance yourself. The end result of such an advancement is a really hot area of debate but it is a broad agreement that you are said to be liberated from the physical world and go into the spiritual world.

 

[renuka]

Dear Doctor,

Thanks for understanding me in the right spirit. Pray tell me this. The people in this forum discuss Vedas, Advaita, Dudvaita, Mimamsa, Samosa etc. You are heading towards becoming an authority in Sanskrit. I am an authority on nothing, I have very cursory knowledge of geography, western classical, tantra, English and so on.

However, what's the use of all the knowledge? Someday you'll end up a pile of ashes. Isn't that knowledge enough to bring people down to earth?

Dear Ash,

I do not consider myself an authority of anything even though I might write some cock and bull from time to time..the more we read the more we will realize that there is so much we might never ever know..that itself is enough to bring us down to ground zero level.

If you ask me why I am studying Sanskrit..my answer is simple....It is a desire and whatever said and done every desire has to go before I become a pile of ashes.

All acquired knowledge to a certain extent has a risk too...cos it can feed our ego and when we become puffed up with ego..downfall is certainly ahead.

So I feel the best knowledge is just being ourselves without any pretenses...that is why I had objected to Jaykay's post where he was trying to paint a picture of the Forum being an exclusively August/September/October Forum and any unconventional thought and views are not really advisable.

When we form walls of unwarranted rules and regulations around ourselves we become judgmental and there is no scope for any mental growth...a stunted mind is as good as a brain dead person.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Ashwin,

Let me add to Sravna’s post. You have raised a problem that has become very common with the Gen X, Y & Z.

for Gen XYZ, money is not a problem since their parents have earned them & given them a good education. Given that all the jobs are being outsourced to India, getting a job is also not easy. so why not enjoy life fully on alcohol, drugs & sex. (Pl read my earlier post – Cosmic Theory – Life’s real secrets)

Now, every generation has to re-discover the truths, they cannot learn from our Rishis, elders, parents.

Have you ever wondered why accidents happen to good people?

Let me narrate a true life story aired on Nat Geo. A very beautiful 25 yr old British Girl –Blonde hair, blue eyed, white girl decided to enjoy her life. So she took a good amount of money from her mother & landed in Goa.

In Goa, she really found heaven, drugs – cocaine, Sex,party, alcohol and Beedi obviously. She enjoyed for over a year before she ran out of money. Then she started smuggling drugs by buying Indian Statues & sending them to Europe. She made a ton of money & enjoyed even more. Lifewas good, nah – super J

One day, when she was sending the drug parcel, she got caught by the Indian police & was sent to Thihar Jail for 5 yrs. She tried to commit suicide there & went through hell. After she got released after the 5 yrs in Jail, she went back to London & now living a very very moderate life.

Similarly, there was a case of a Tabra Iyer Girl who got drunk in Bangalore & fell down from a 15 storey building coz she tried to jump from one balconey to another. What a terrible tragedy for her parents who are a very very middle class family from Kerala !!

So in short, if you enjoy your life like there is no tomorrow, you will face disasters in life. That’s why people after enjoying long years of peace, prosperity or happiness face issues & problems.

The paradox of life is, if you want to live a long long healthy life without any problems, you have to give up everything & becomea Sanyasi in pursuit of God. So since we cannot live like that, the next best thing is to live your life in absolute moderation & pray to God daily.

Look at it, our Brahmins have survived right through history untouched by any wars & disasters. It is because of this pursuit of knowledge, living in absolute moderation, religious prayers, rituals. Prayers to God will ensure, we follow the right path always. Otherwise how will you know which decision is going to be right ?. for eg, if you have 2 jobs & you have to choose one, how will you know which one will be the best in the long run. That’s why prayers are so important, it will help us take the right decision.

In summary, it is this knowledge that is supreme & life’s purpose is to gain this knowledge & attain salvation. The fear of re-birth was so high for our Rishis, they wanted to achieve salvation by being one with God.

PS: This may be too heavy for you at this age, but it will help you to know that it is far better to learn from our ancients than to painfully relive it & be an example to others !!

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Ashwin - Pl take this in the right spirit again. It is not funny to equate Advaita/Dvaita with Samosa !!. Shankara & Ramanujam are Giants & they are unparalleled/unmatched Geniuses - they are truly divine beings. The fact that they were able to talk about mind-body problems 1000s or years back & solve them is astonishing ! These problems are being formulated by the silly westerners today, let alone think of solving them. Probably you haven't even heard such a thing !!. so pl don't make fun of our great spiritual texts, Gurus, priests & rituals etc... Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Ashwin - Pl take this in the right spirit again. It is not funny to equate Advaita/Dvaita with Samosa !!.

Dear JK,

What is wrong with Samosa?

From a Samosa we can learn about Advaita.

Now picturize a Samosa.

The Samosa has a crispy hard crust that shields the tasty contents.

The Samosa Crust has veiling(Avarana) properties...like Maya.

When looking from outside..we might never ever know the inside.

Once the crusty wall of Samosa Maya is broken down then we are able to taste the bliss within..the Aaloo.

We do not need to be an Archarya to understand the simple lessons in life..

Always remember SRK's Punch Dialogue: Don't Underestimate the Power of a Common Man!LOL

 

[ashwin_ash]

Ashwin - Pl take this in the right spirit again. It is not funny to equate Advaita/Dvaita with Samosa !!. Shankara & Ramanujam are Giants & they are unparalleled/unmatched Geniuses - they are truly divine beings. The fact that they were able to talk about mind-body problems 1000s or years back & solve them is astonishing ! These problems are being formulated by the silly westerners today, let alone think of solving them. Probably you haven't even heard such a thing !!. so pl don't make fun of our great spiritual texts, Gurus, priests & rituals etc... Cheers,

Dear Jaykay,

My indifference and irreverence does not necessarily indicate ignorance. There's always a clown in any Bhutanese Buddhist festival to remind people of the non-grim side of grim religion. All our great spiritual texts are essentially useless. They serve no real purpose. The only reality is the pain or pleasure you are experiencing right here right now. Even Adi Sankara pooh-poohed rituals and said that the present is the only reality. This is what he said when he first argued with Sureswara.

Read this- Ecclesiastes 1. The Holy Bible: King James Version and you may get some perspective on the impermanence of everything. And a yummy samosa can satiate your hunger, reading a chapter from the mundaka upanishad can't.

Personally, I'd rather subscribe to schools within Hinduism such as Samkhya, Mimamsa, Charvaka/Lokayata, Nyaya, Jaina, Sanatkumara and so on which are to quite some extent hedonistic and emphasize on "right now".

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Nara,

I refer to the discussion we had regarding vedas as a source of true knowledge. If the laws of science are disproved in a repeatable way it means that there are timeless laws in operation. So my test for the truth of the vedas would be if some fundamental law of science is disproved in a repeatable way and in conformance to the theories of the vedas.

I propose a challenge: We know in the field of particle physics, elementary particles are accelerated to very high energies by particle accelerators. That is, such particles do acquire very high energies when accelerated is a certainty in physics. My challenge is to make the energy of particles accelerated to very high energies vanish using mind power. I am not kidding. I genuinely think it is possible. Will any science lab accept such a challenge?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Ashwin,

If I may intrude,

Knowledge which is universal helps us to apply it irrespective of where we are and so if we can acquire that knowledge like the laws of science we do not have to spend time acquiring such knowledge if we are to inhabit any other part of the universe. So practically it has its use. Similarly if we can acquire knowledge that is timeless we can use such knowledge irrespective of the time we are in. In a sense we are conquering the uncertainties associated with a different space and time.

From the point of view of Hinduism, knowledge which is considered timeless i.e, the spiritual knowledge talks of a timeless entity, the soul which it says is the real self. So you may not be really turning in to ashes but live on and use every knowledge acquired to advance yourself. The end result of such an advancement is a really hot area of debate but it is a broad agreement that you are said to be liberated from the physical world and go into the spiritual world.

Dear Sir,

The existence of the soul has yet been unproven, except perhaps in horror movies (which are oddly comforting because they show that life is forever). A Muslim colleague once told me that if she is "not spiritual" and doesn't repeat "Allah's name" unbrokenly, she'll go to hell and her body will be covered with creepy crawly reptiles etc. I challenged her notion and offered to go to a Muslim graveyard, all she'll find are bones and dust underneath, no reptiles for sure! When I went to Kannamapettai and pushed my father inside the hot chamber, he emerged in a steel box as a pile of hot ashes. He was never a religious man, he was a good man though. In the nearby chamber, a vedic scholar was pushed inside, he too emerged as a pile of ashes. And in the last chamber, a senior police officer who liquidated many dangerous criminals also emerged in a tiny steel container as ashes.

Of what use are all the religious texts and cantos, when all that's left is dust (even books are eaten by bookworms and turn into dust)??

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

The existence of the soul has yet been unproven, except perhaps in horror movies (which are oddly comforting because they show that life is forever). A Muslim colleague once told me that if she is "not spiritual" and doesn't repeat "Allah's name" unbrokenly, she'll go to hell and her body will be covered with creepy crawly reptiles etc. I challenged her notion and offered to go to a Muslim graveyard, all she'll find are bones and dust underneath, no reptiles for sure! When I went to Kannamapettai and pushed my father inside the hot chamber, he emerged in a steel box as a pile of hot ashes. He was never a religious man, he was a good man though. In the nearby chamber, a vedic scholar was pushed inside, he too emerged as a pile of ashes. And in the last chamber, a senior police officer who liquidated many dangerous criminals also emerged in a tiny steel container as ashes.

Of what use are all the religious texts and cantos, when all that's left is dust (even books are eaten by bookworms and turn into dust)??

Dear Ashwin,

Whether soul exists or not is debatable. If every effort is finally going to be worthless why do anything at all? By that logic, what is the meaning of living today when in another x years I will definitely die. I think the idea is we try to be optimistic and see if that optimism can be a reality. We assume by trying to acquire knowledge we can understand nature and hence do things which seem impossible today. How do you know from that fact that everyone who was born did die, that death is inevitable? The simple logic is we do not know what the future has in store. It may not be rosy or may turn rosy. But we need to assume that it will be rosy as a first step to make it a reality. And we need the knowledge.

 

[krish44]

I am rather pained to see the change of course of this thread. We may disagree with the contents of some opinions, but should we lose our politeness in our replies? Using abusive language or personal vilification will not help in understanding the subject.

It was Sri Krishna Cahitanya Maha Prabhu who said
"Be more humble than a blade of grass, more tolerant than a tree, always offering respect onto others and never expecting any in return"

I humbly request the members to do some course correction and come back to the subject.
ray2:
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I am trying to understand the subject namely N. LOL

 

[krish44]

Why is shopping with wife hell?LOL

Do as I do..when I go to a shopping mall..I go where I want..husband goes where he wants and once we are both done with our shopping we give each other a call and meet up and one point to go home...but we shop for groceries and vegetables together..other stuff we do separate shopping so that no one feels bored to death.

we are on a foreign jaunt enjoying christmas and new year in singapore. hence division of work rules do not apply. we are on the elusive gold hunt after the price crash in singapore. the price arbitrage on indian and singapore prices is too tempting to ignore. we can always find out later who is a good brahmanan ash or naraji a bit later . both may not mind it.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Ashwin,

That's a good one. I appreciate the humour in the definition of Agnihotram. But the Agnihotram mentioned in Yuthishtra's answer is different."The texts say that performing this ritual brings welfare to the family. It cures us of diseases and contributes to our mental and physical health. The positive energy it lets out heightens our confidence and strengthens character." You know what benefits of the present day Agnihotram may bring.

Best Wishes,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Shri Ashwin, Shri Brahmanyan,

"agnihotram" was a device through which every brahmin household could have its own "aahavaneeya agni" or fire which could be taken to another spot and "oupaasanam" was for maintaining the same agni with which the marriage vows of the brAhmaNa were made and this "srautaagni" was to be utilised ultimately for the cremation of the husband/wife whoever dies first.

The whole purpose was to ensure "unpolluted agni" (for instance, fire obtained from a house observing the mourning period due to death was considered polluted; so was 'fire' given or brought after sunset. All these pertained to that era when safety matches had not yet become known to us tabras.

Today, as the world has undergone such transformation that it may not be of any significant purpose to maintain such three and four "agnis" in each brahmin household. To that extent, Yudhishtira's views are irrelevant today, imho.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Today, as the world has undergone such transformation that it may not be of any significant purpose to maintain such three and four "agnis" in each brahmin household. To that extent, Yudhishtira's views are irrelevant today, imho.

Dear Sri "sangom",

I fully agree with your views. It is also my personal view many of our rituals have lost their relevence in today's world.
We have also discarded them one by one discreetly or otherwise.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sangom]

Dear RR,

That was disappointing.

I too am against the derogatory term (MP) "mot---pA--i". It disturbs me no end about the times our community has come through. I would join with you in appealing to that member not to use that term in future. That settled, let me move to the rest of your post.

I added the like to Sri Sangom's that post. Leaving the use of the term MP that post essentially brought out a neutral position about the raging issue beautifully and effectively.

You were irritated and were disgusted by that comparison of that "illiterate old widow" to that"outstanding, next to God" dad of you. While I appreciate your love and regard for your dad and also the regard in which he was held by your village people, would you please stop for a moment to think about your words in that post? You have more or less justified Mr. Nara's position of taking offence at simple words said with child-like innocence. When I read Sangom's post I was for a moment stuck by that poor old widow's wonderment at every thing by just relating it to what she knows best-her immediate surroundings, perhaps like a frog in the well. That kind of child-like innocence is rare to come across. If my dad had been compared to that lady I would have felt proud of him. For me that old paatti is an angel. Despite her situation in life, living by selling appalams made with hard labour at home, she was able to wonder at such things. And you have objected to that comparison. We all, I think, accumulate a lot of grievances (about this and that) in life, and suffer from that load for the rest of our life. I have not seen your dad but from the love and regard he enjoyed from his villagers and from you, I gather he must have been like my dad who was in a similar position. But my dad was also like that MP sangom has explained, in his child-like innocence, in his jumping with joy on coming across instances of human excellence however small they may be, in his trying to understand and deal with complicated situations with his limited rustic knowledge about the world, in his contentment with what he had etc., etc., That I think was that MP also. I am proud of my dad, I am proud of that MP also because she perhaps represents the womanhood of my community at large. Please think about. I do not mean any offence. Only a prompting to look at things from a different dhrishtikone. LOL.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Thank you very much for beautifully expressing what was in my mind. The tabra people among whom I grew up, the term "moTTai pATTi" was not at all considered a derogatory word. About sixty or seventy years ago, our tabra women were slowly entering a changing phase, so to say. My maternal grandmother donned the "moTTai pATTi" attire soon after my grandfather's death, much against my mother herself (only surviving daughter of my grandmother) being strongly against that aachaaram. I remember my grandmother telling her daughter (I was always close to my grandmother - I used to be made fun of for this!) that it all depends not on customs and saastras, but a mark of one's own love, affection and dedication (Complete and wholehearted fidelity) for whatever her husband had done for her during their long married life; she added that anyway she was not a young girl and if my mother felt bad about it, she (my grandmother) would continue to live in the village house to avoid embarrassment to the daughter. And that settled the issue!

Of course, nobody would call, address or use this word before a widow with shaved head, etc., but on all occasions, it helped to describe the old-world women from the newly emerging and mostly viewed as "unfaithful" wives who chose to continue in their saree or puDavai and full hair (usually referred, disparagingly, in their absence by the word பு***சி which was an abusive word alright.

I do not therefore find anything wrong in using the word "moTTai pATTi" to refer to any person indirectly, unlesss of course Shri Praveen decides against when MP will join the 'big river' in anonymity !

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Ashwin,

Whether soul exists or not is debatable. If every effort is finally going to be worthless why do anything at all? By that logic, what is the meaning of living today when in another x years I will definitely die. I think the idea is we try to be optimistic and see if that optimism can be a reality. We assume by trying to acquire knowledge we can understand nature and hence do things which seem impossible today. How do you know from that fact that everyone who was born did die, that death is inevitable? The simple logic is we do not know what the future has in store. It may not be rosy or may turn rosy. But we need to assume that it will be rosy as a first step to make it a reality. And we need the knowledge.

To paste an earlier post of mine- My indifference and irreverence does not necessarily indicate ignorance. There's always a clown in any Bhutanese Buddhist festival to remind people of the non-grim side of grim religion. All our great spiritual texts are essentially useless. They serve no real purpose. The only reality is the pain or pleasure you are experiencing right here right now. Even Adi Sankara pooh-poohed rituals and said that the present is the only reality. This is what he said when he first argued with Sureswara.

Read this- Ecclesiastes 1. The Holy Bible: King James Version and you may get some perspective on the impermanence of everything. And a yummy samosa can satiate your hunger, reading a chapter from the mundaka upanishad can't.

Personally, I'd rather subscribe to schools within Hinduism such as Samkhya, Mimamsa, Charvaka/Lokayata, Nyaya, Jaina, Sanatkumara and so on which are to quite some extent hedonistic and emphasize on "right now".

 

[sangom]

I am sorry to have posted my mail re: Cadaver donation, inadvertantly in this thread. In fact I was composing the mail to add it to my other thread 'cost of funeral' but suddenly I faced power failure. After sometime when the power returned I opened the site again but by mistake opened this thread and in a hurry sent my mail to this thread. sorry for my lapse. However, thanks to Shri Vaagmi for the clarification. I would be more grateful if he could direct me to the relevant Sastra for reference.

thanks and regards

a.sundararaman

Shri Sundararaman sir,

Shri Vaagmi's comments are correct, imo.


According to almost all Dharmasastras (which are our authority for all things brahminic in a grihasta's life) a person becomes a proper braahmana or dwija if and only if all the "mandatory samskaaras" are performed for/by him. These include 16 very important 'samskaaras' starting from 'garbhaadaana' (to be done by the father for the child) and ending with 'pitrumedha' or offering of father's mortal body as an oblation in sacred fire for the proper devas, by the eldest son (seemantha putra) of the deceased.

The belief system depicted in the Rigveda shows that the dead people were thought to go forward to a "pitru lOka" with their bodies intact and reside eternally in that pitrulOka. The living descendents or 'avakaaSis' were supposed to offer Tarpanam on 96 days per year to quench the thirst of one's pitrus and one Sraaddham per year to remove their hunger too. (One earth year makes just one day for the pitrus in their pitrulokam; six months of uttaraayana form the day time and the six months of dakshinaayana make the night.)

In the above background, a believing braahmanan donating any of his/her organs after death will be lacking those organs in the pitruloka and suffer for eternity. Hence all the orthodox tabras who donate their cadaver will have to roam about for eternity (till the pralayam at the end of a chaturyuga or so?) as a disembodied ghost suffering unimaginable grief and pain and suffering and bringing curse upon all his male descendents.

Civilized tabras who boast of their "progressive" outlook disregard their shastras and lend themselves for such a horrible, interminable future suffering.

 

[sangom]

Illiterate is another word we have assimilated from the west. All hindus have wisdom inherited from their parents, family, society and the learned. Reading or writing a script is called literacy now. Most of our ancestors irrespective nor varna or jati or gender were well versed in spiritual and loukika literature, had huge memory, enviable skills in all fields. The english have foisted the word 'illiterate' on us and we now claim 60 to 70 % of the population is illiterate.

The ladies of the house, irrespective of their status and station in life were well informed and wise. All pattis are worthy of respect and affection.

Dear Sarang,

For once, I am in complete agreement with what you have written. I used that word "illiterate" to mean 'no formal school education' (as we know education today). The particular pATTi was of course able to recite, by rote, many slokas, songs like 'amman pATTu/periyamman pATTu', etc. But I can't say whether she could read and/or write.

 

[Nara]

...... My challenge is to make the energy of particles accelerated to very high energies vanish using mind power. I am not kidding. I genuinely think it is possible. Will any science lab accept such a challenge?

sravna, I don't have a lab that can measure these things, so I am in no position to offer any help for you to demonstrate this. Perhaps you can write to IISC and try to see whether any physicist there can help you.

But, this experiment is completely irrelevant to the "truth" of vedas. If you succeed it will only prove human mind is capable of such feat, but won't prove the "truth" of vedas. If you fail, that won't even prove that human mind is not capable of this feat let alone disprove the "truth" of vedas if they are indeed true. These two are logically unrelated.

Your views on science is wrong.

Thanks ...

 

[Nara]

I am rather pained to see the change of course of this thread. .

I feel there must be more accountability when these things happen. Right from the start the responses have been to personalize the issue. I immediately clarified my intent and Mrs. RR herself expressed there was no hurt. The personal stuff should have stopped at this point and the discussion should have been about what I said. Instead the spigot of vitriol was thrown open.

I express contrary view. The site owner has said repeatedly this is permitted. I reject the assertion that just expressing contrary view is insulting to the brahmin (overwhelming) majority here, that is simply not so. I have every right to express my view as anyone else here. If you think my views are wrong then show me, don't just say I spew hate, it is insulting to Brahmins, or give me free advice. Show me I am wrong and I promise to correct myself and even offer an apology if required. But I can't promise I will just keep quiet endlessly, continued taunting takes a toll.

thanks ...

 

[ashwin_ash]

sravna, I don't have a lab that can measure these things, so I am in position to offer any help for you to demonstrate this. Perhaps you can write to IISC and try to see whether any physicist there can help you.

But, this experiment is completely irrelevant to the "truth" of vedas. If you succeed it will only prove human mind is capable of such feat, but won't prove the "truth" of vedas. If you fail, that won't even disprove that human mind is not capable of this feat let alone disprove the "truth" of vedas if they are indeed true. These two are logically unrelated.

Your views on science is wrong.

Thanks ...

All vedas, upanishads, puranas, upa-puranas, other texts are simply useless sheaves of palm leaves/ paper which turned to dust long ago.

 

[sangom]

To paste an earlier post of mine- My indifference and irreverence does not necessarily indicate ignorance. There's always a clown in any Bhutanese Buddhist festival to remind people of the non-grim side of grim religion. All our great spiritual texts are essentially useless. They serve no real purpose. The only reality is the pain or pleasure you are experiencing right here right now. Even Adi Sankara pooh-poohed rituals and said that the present is the only reality. This is what he said when he first argued with Sureswara.

Read this- Ecclesiastes 1. The Holy Bible: King James Version and you may get some perspective on the impermanence of everything. And a yummy samosa can satiate your hunger, reading a chapter from the mundaka upanishad can't.

Personally, I'd rather subscribe to schools within Hinduism such as Samkhya, Mimamsa, Charvaka/Lokayata, Nyaya, Jaina, Sanatkumara and so on which are to quite some extent hedonistic and emphasize on "right now".

Dear Ashwin,

As long as one finds that the going is good in life, he/she is not usually bothered about anything else and "hedonistic" life suits him alright. But very few people are fortunate to live in such favorable circumstances throughout life and die a peaceful sudden death. Unforeseen adversities, troubles, set-backs, poverty, illnesses etc., befall most families and it is then that people usually start wondering, "why was I born?", "why should I die?", "what will happen to me after death?", and so on.

In such circumstances, the hedonistic ways do not usually help and it is difficult to think and be satisfied with the present (which would become rather unpleasant) as the only reality etc.

There seems to me a slight mismatch in the sentence "All our great spiritual texts are essentially useless."; do you hold that those spiritual texts which are second grade (i.e., not great) are useful?

Also I have not read so far heard about Adi Sankara stating that the present is the only reality; this goes contrary to his advaita as it is known. It will be helpful if you give some reference to Sankara's first argument with Sureswara which you have mentioned.

 

[sravna]

sravna, I don't have a lab that can measure these things, so I am in position to offer any help for you to demonstrate this. Perhaps you can write to IISC and try to see whether any physicist there can help you.

But, this experiment is completely irrelevant to the "truth" of vedas. If you succeed it will only prove human mind is capable of such feat, but won't prove the "truth" of vedas. If you fail, that won't even disprove that human mind is not capable of this feat let alone disprove the "truth" of vedas if they are indeed true. These two are logically unrelated.

Your views on science is wrong.

Thanks ...

Dear Shri Nara,

If a fundamental law of science is disproved then it shows that scientific knowledge is not the ultimate knowledge and that there is a deeper knowledge. I think that is obvious. The basis upon which you reposed faith in Science i.e, physical evidence would be obliterated by something which you do not believe in i.e, the spiritual reality.

The question I am asking you now is that in such a case, will you give more credence to science or to the vedas?