Who is brahmanan

[ashwin_ash]

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I did not find any mention of suresvara, mandana misra or argument in the link given, please.

Adi Sankara died at 32, none of the scriptures could save him. His tomb was washed away in the
kedarnath floods, while the Sivalinga remained intact. Meanwhile, I'll send you the link describing the part where mandana misra became suresvara.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Stupid story ..

It might be stupid for people performing mindless rituals.

 

[Vaagmi]

In science law has its limitations. There is no universal law that is applicable at all time. Gravitational law is limited, so is Einstein's law. Laws are true till it is challenged and proven wrong, and then a new order take over.

Precisely. All scientific truths are relative to time. Period.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,Shri Nara,

The fundamental law I am talking about is (physical) energy cannot be destroyed. But I am saying when under the influence of spiritual energy it can be made to vanish because it syncs with the spiritual energy and so disappears from space and time.

What I think would happen is that the physical energy also becomes unchanging when under the influence of spiritual energy, may be by becoming part of or one with the inter connected reality. Such energy loses its force and is also something that cannot be detected. Thus when I say energy can be destroyed I mean it appears to simply vanish from space and time.

Dear Shri Prasad,

I addressed a question about the truth of vedas raised in this thread. That science evolves is a totally different matter. My point is that if a fundamental law of science can repeatably be proved wrong, there should be a greater law in operation.

Dear Shri Sravna,

If a "fundamental law of science can be proved wrong" and that too "repeatedly", then that will simply mean that, that particular law of science is wrong—nothing more, nothing less. It just cannot lead any rational intellect to the conclusion (or, even belief) that the vedas depict some kind of truth, or that there is something called 'spiritual energy'. Even for considering your proposal, I as a dumb student of science, will ask the following queries:

1. What is the definition of this 'spiritual energy' which you propose? How and where and under what circumstances does it manifest and whether it is capable of being detected and measured by physical instruments?

2. What way is the truth of the vedas connected to this spiritual energy?

3. Whether the spirital energy always and invariably nullifies physical energy? If so, why is it that physical energy has not been completely destroyed in all these billions of years and the universe made to completely vanish?

4. Why is a 'human agent' required for producing this spiritual energy? etc.

In addition to the above, kindly also bear in mind the contents of my post # 176 above.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Sangom,

My inputs:

1. Did anyone know about Gravity before Newton discovered ?
2. Many of us believe - Spiritual energy is the life force in all of us & is connected to a bigger life force called Brahman. You need to ask the scientist to figure out – how to measure this energy?
3. If you do NOT accept our definition, you need to come up with an explanation on – what is the driving force in all of us?
4. Spiritual energy is what is behind the creation of universe. If you don’t agree, tell us – how did the universe come into existence ?
5. Human agent is not required for spiritual energy.Spiritual energy is what creates the human agent.

In summary, what is your theory on life & its creation ??

Cheers,

 

[Vaagmi]

Who is a brahmin? Here's an interesting parable.

Guru Nanak looked at the Brahman and said, “Why do you throw water to the sun?” The priest said proudly, “We throw water to the sun to honor our ancestors, it gives them happiness, blessings and prosperity.” “So, how far away are your ancestors?” Asked the Guru. A man nearby heard this conversation. He had read a lot of books, so he thought he had the right answers to everything. He said, “Our ancestors live thousands and thousands of miles away.”

The Guru started throwing water in the direction away from the sun. He was throwing the water faster and faster now, as though he was putting out a fire. As he splashed the water around, the Brahmans yelled, “STOP, STOP, what are you doing!!?” Guru Nanak was panting from all his splashing. He told them, “I have a farm in the Punjab which is in this direction. My fields really need water, especially at this time of year. If I don’t get this water over to them, my crops might dry up!”

Now they really thought he was totally crazy. One of them asked, “How can water get from here all the way to the Punjab?!” The Guru said, “Well, my farm is much closer than your ancestors. How can water reach your ancestors if it can’t even reach my farm in Punjab?” Well, it was true - his fields were much closer than the ancestors who, according to the Brahmins were thousands and thousands of miles away.

A really stupid story no doubt.

If I were there, I would have asked the Guru, how his field of wheat crop gets its water? Naturally the answer would have been that it comes from the river Jhelum. Then on further probing he would have said the water reaches his field through channels that branch off from one of the numerous canals that draw their water from a dam some where up and far away in the upper reaches of the river. So he has never seen the Jhelum and is yet getting the jhelum water flowing into his field through several intermediaries. O Guru, Please understand that the Pitrs also get what they need from what I am giving here through several intermediaries. Only the intermediaries are very different. If the Guru did not understand, I would ask him to come and meet me in the twentieth century. Then when he comes here I would have shown how my chat message typed in Chennai is instantly read by my friend in Siberia and another friend in the north pole at the same time. The Guru wont have any more doubts because he is knowledgeable and can understand.

 

[renuka]

In summary, what is your theory on life & itscreation ??

Simple..people gun it and Lo behold! they create new life forms!

So going by that if we still haven't understood creation..practice makes perfect..therefore keep on gunning it!LOL

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - LOL !!!. All I am saying is, unless we have a credible alternative theory by our so called Aethiests that explains life forms & creation of universe, we are more than happy to follow the Genius Shankara !! Some of the people on this forum keep endlessly questioning others without coming up with an alternate view. Cheers.

 

[Vaagmi]

Adi Sankara died at 32, none of the scriptures could save him. His tomb was washed away in the
kedarnath floods, while the Sivalinga remained intact. Meanwhile, I'll send you the link describing the part where mandana misra became suresvara.

If you expected that the scriptures should have saved Sankara, it shows your understanding of the scriptures as well as Sankara is a big zero. The Sivalinga might have remained in tact because it is a heavy stone which could not be moved by the current of the flooded rivers.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,


For eg, have u noticed that if you think strongly about someone, they also think about you the same time ?. Sometimes you think about them a few mins before they call you & then you end up saying – 100 yrs to you, I was just thinking about u.


Cheers,

Dear Jk,

This is true to a certain extent...recently I had nightmare that a close friend had met with an accident and I was freaking scared and called up to find out if my friend was Ok and he told me that he nearly met an accident just 2 hours before I called!

So that I feel is 6th sense..dont ask me how it works...cos sometimes just suddenly we remember someone and the very next moment the person calls you or emails you.

That may be is thought waves that travel.

BTW even Prana is described by Paramhansa Yogananda as negatively charged and he calls it Lifetrons.

Technically Energy is Energy...Its just that we haven't been able to identify all types of Energy and as usual when we do not know something we give it fancy names like Spiritual/Divine...just like even though Love is becos of hormones, some people call it Divine Love!

 

[Vaagmi]

Simple..people gun it and Lo behold! they create new life forms!

So going by that if we still haven't understood creation..practice makes perfect..therefore keep on gunning it!LOL

Yeah. Well said. One shot at a time and not Kalashnikov style. LOL.

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Jk,

This is true to a certain extent...recently I had nightmare that a close friend had met with an accident and I was freaking scared and called up to find out if my friend was Ok and he told me that he nearly met an accident just 2 hours before I called!

So that I feel is 6th sense..dont ask me how it works...cos sometimes just suddenly we remember someone and the very next moment the person calls you or emails you.

That may be is thought waves that travel.

BTW even Prana is described by Paramhansa Yogananda as negatively charged and he calls it Lifetrons.

Technically Energy is Energy...Its just that we haven't been able to identify all types of Energy and as usual when we do not know something we give it fancy names like Spiritual/Divine...just like even though Love is becos of hormones, some people call it Divine Love!

Hi Renuka,

This is what we call as spiritual energy or Brahman or Divine or God. One can name it anyway, does not matter. For believers like us, Gravity is also a manifestation of this “spiritual energy or divine or Brahman”.

So my point is – how do thoughts originate?. And how do they travel across to other beings?

See, tomorrow the Scientist will call it with some other name, it does not change the fact that there is something/someone who is beyond us & behind this wonderful creation!!

Cheers,

 

[Nara]

Stupid story ..

tks, aren't you being a little too hasty? You often say there is hidden meaning and it should be understood with proper attitude, etc. with which I don't actually disagree. Sometimes there is nothing there for all the proper attitude, effort, etc., that is where we sometimes disagree.

Be that as it may, coming to this story it seems the guru was trying to teach his sishyas that one need not resort to superstitious behavior in order to honor ancestors. Now, you may disagree that the act of offering water to sun is superstitious and that would be your POV, but that does not make the story "stupid".

 

[kunjuppu]

somewhat related... and made my day. Ranjitha officially becomes a monk. And part of Nithyananda's ashram. Way to go!!

Sanyasini Ranjitha

 

[vgane]

I can narrate an incident ..I was in Mumbai & my Periamma/Periappa lived there...One day I was alone in the house

I smelled some burnt smell of flesh...I have never felt such a flesh as there were no non veg families nearby..I felt bad & thought it was a bad omen


Shortly, I received a call in land line...My Periamma had expired & they were trying to reach me for quite some time..The mobile phone was down as battery got discharged..They only had mobile no..Not land line..After great difficulty, they could reach me

I thought for a moment that God had a way to communicate with me through

There is no logic..But this incident impacted me about the power of God

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Vgane - Absolutely, that is the power of thought - power of the spiritual energy / God!!. This is what Sravna was also saying earlier. so if we can focus & amplify our thought energy then we can heal people or perform miracles or influence the events or read our future or etc.. !!. this is what our Rishis were able to via meditation etc.. of course as I said earlier, unless this is demonstrated people will continue to disbelieve it. Cheers,

 

[prasad1]

This thread is like brook, meandering through the forrest.

Are we now equating science with superstitions?
Just because you add words like energy it does not become a science. Maya energy, Paranormal energy does not make it science.
I am a theist, and believe in Supreme being (may be that too is superstition).

 

[vgane]

somewhat related... and made my day. Ranjitha officially becomes a monk. And part of Nithyananda's ashram. Way to go!!

Sanyasini Ranjitha

Did you see the comments...Good that The Hindu has transformed itself into a tabloid for the Tamil medium..Way to go!LOL!!

 

[sravna]

Dear sravna,

If a fundamental law of science can repeatedly be proved wrong:

1. A new law which is foolproof will have to be found and will be found.

2. There may not be any law to explain that fundamental truth and humanity will have to wait for the time when a better understanding gives us that law.

3. We can live without that law and nothing will really change because of the proving wrong. Despite our proving, disproving, tampering, experimenting with, misusing, using, inferring from etc., of these laws the reality remains what it is. Is it not so?

These are the three possibilities. Not the possibility you have mentioned -that there should be a greater law in operation. By the way what is great about a law? A law is a law. It is true or false. There is nothing greater or smaller about it. Explain please.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Take for example the law of conservation of energy. It is something that is supposed to hold good universally. Say it has never been contradicted and indeed it has not been. But if I now say that there is a different form of energy under the influence of which the law of conservation of energy will not work. That is the energy I am talking about can make the energy we normally are familiar with simply vanish. I say all this before I demonstrate what I say. I give the rationale also that such an energy by its influence changes the physical energy into its own nature and thus makes it vanish from space and time. It seems to vanish because such an energy cannot be directly detected by any physical instrument. It can be only inferred.

Now assume that I am able to prove what I said which is make the physical energy vanish.I
have followed the process of science. I stated a hypothesis about the existence of a new form of energy. I said something about its nature and how that nature will lead to the result I proposed. I finally demonstrate it. Obviously since a fundamental law of science would be broken, a new law would emerge. I called this a greater law because that new law is something which is antithetical to the philosophy of science because it would establish the presence of an energy which is not physical.

 

[kunjuppu]

Did you see the comments...Good that The Hindu has transformed itself into a tabloid for the Tamil medium..Way to go!LOL!!

considering the platitudes discussed here in this thread and in this august forum, ranjitha is as much a savant as the others venerated here. i think. wait for a few years, and watch out for the number of temples in her honour

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

If a "fundamental law of science can be proved wrong" and that too "repeatedly", then that will simply mean that, that particular law of science is wrong—nothing more, nothing less. It just cannot lead any rational intellect to the conclusion (or, even belief) that the vedas depict some kind of truth, or that there is something called 'spiritual energy'. Even for considering your proposal, I as a dumb student of science, will ask the following queries:

1. What is the definition of this 'spiritual energy' which you propose? How and where and under what circumstances does it manifest and whether it is capable of being detected and measured by physical instruments?




2. What way is the truth of the vedas connected to this spiritual energy?

3. Whether the spirital energy always and invariably nullifies physical energy? If so, why is it that physical energy has not been completely destroyed in all these billions of years and the universe made to completely vanish?

4. Why is a 'human agent' required for producing this spiritual energy? etc.

In addition to the above, kindly also bear in mind the contents of my post # 176 above.

Dear Shri Sangom,

Spiritual energy can be readily identified with thoughts which are caused by the human mind. Human mind produces spiritual energy only when it is spiritual in nature. Spiritual energy is to be differentiated from physical energy because it transcends space and time. It cannot be detected by physical instruments. However I think the thoughts which are the manifestation of spiritual energy can be detected by a physical instrument just as the brain detects them. What I mean by the above is the spiritual mind sees far in time but the brain possibly cannot detect the full extent of it and what the brain detects is what is perceived at any time.

In the normal process, physical energies evolve towards spiritual energy and that is how the evolution from inanimate to animate to human to brahman happens. But if specifically and consciously directed at physical energy, spiritual energy invariably nullifies it.

As I said since spiritual energy presents itself in the process of evolution, humans as agents of spiritual energy only means that humans are advanced enough to be able to be the creators of spiritual energy.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Hi Vgane - Absolutely, that is the power of thought - power of the spiritual energy / God!!. This is what Sravna was also saying earlier. so if we can focus & amplify our thought energy then we can heal people or perform miracles or influence the events or read our future or etc.. !!. this is what our Rishis were able to via meditation etc.. of course as I said earlier, unless this is demonstrated people will continue to disbelieve it. Cheers,

So now you say your "God" is some obscure form of energy. There's a book about a godman from andhra who flew up in the sky and steadied an airplane passing through an air pocket. Can blind belief get more absurd?

What is this "god" you speak about? We don't even need doctors if mere 'energy' or 'god' can heal. Where are all the rishis in the present age? Probably they've taken 'rebirth' as Nithyananda and Ranjitha!! They are also a manifestation of dynamic energy hence they are Gods!!

 

[tks]

tks, aren't you being a little too hasty? You often say there is hidden meaning and it should be understood with proper attitude, etc. with which I don't actually disagree. Sometimes there is nothing there for all the proper attitude, effort, etc., that is where we sometimes disagree.

Be that as it may, coming to this story it seems the guru was trying to teach his sishyas that one need not resort to superstitious behavior in order to honor ancestors. Now, you may disagree that the act of offering water to sun is superstitious and that would be your POV, but that does not make the story "stupid".

Nara, I am choosing to not respond since it will not be taken in the right spirit based on past experience.

Instead let me say two things.

One is that whatever you have attributed to me in your post are incorrect.

Two, let me point to an intelligent post instead without qualification as to why.

That is Sri Vaagmi's reponse (message #206)

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

This is what we call as spiritual energy or Brahman or Divine or God. One can name it anyway, does not matter. For believers like us, Gravity is also a manifestation of this “spiritual energy or divine or Brahman”.

So my point is – how do thoughts originate?. And how do they travel across to other beings?

See, tomorrow the Scientist will call it with some other name, it does not change the fact that there is something/someone who is beyond us & behind this wonderful creation!!

Cheers,

Dear JK,

God is a Logician but sadly His followers are not!

 

[Vaagmi]

Nara, I am choosing to not respond since it will not be taken in the right spirit based on past experience.

Instead let me say two things.

One is that whatever you have attributed to me in your post are incorrect.

Two, let me point to an intelligent post instead without qualification as to why.

That is Sri Vaagmi's reponse (message #206)

Dear tks,

I deliberately intended that post to be just "intelligent" because that is the language/medium which is understood by atheists like Subavee and our friends here.

Nice that you understood it. Thanks.