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Why I Am Not A Hindu ?- Book Review

  • Thread starter Thread starter sapr333
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the practice of vegetarianism is a method which has evolved to keep the mind and body pure...

Another alternative - If you dont want divisiveness (as per your perception), why not every hindu turn into vegetarians?

Seshadri, there is no clear cut point to prove vegetarian food makes body and mind pure..Infact, majority of the Hindus are Non-veg, and the also have equally a clean and pure mind and body.

And second thing is, let's go by the majority, and all accept non-veg, discard the unproven spritual aspect of Veg.. Doesnt that brings unity in Hinduism and discard the caste divided, which every one is talking here..

Regarding my second important point of 'Animals becoming one'ness with Brahma'' You havent yet convingly answers.. What should a Tiger do, ie what good karma a Tiger can do, inorder to discard its bad karma and find oneness with Brahma?
 
Seshadri, there is no clear cut point to prove vegetarian food makes body and mind pure..Infact, majority of the Hindus are Non-veg, and the also have equally a clean and pure mind and body.

And second thing is, let's go by the majority, and all accept non-veg, discard the unproven spritual aspect of Veg.. Doesnt that brings unity in Hinduism and discard the caste divided, which every one is talking here..

Regarding my second important point of 'Animals becoming one'ness with Brahma'' You havent yet convingly answers.. What should a Tiger do, ie what good karma a Tiger can do, inorder to discard its bad karma and find oneness with Brahma?
I think you have not grasped the intent... sathvic, rajasic and tamasic are relative classifications done with the primary objective of an individual in pursuit of enlightenment...

Why should we go by the majority? A majority does not always mean that it is right...

I think you are contradicting here - answer this: is there something called "good" or "bad"?
 
Kancha says
"Although Saraswati is the goddess of learning in the Hindu mythology, there is no record of Saraswati writing a book. Lakshmi, though she is the goddess of wealth, was in actual Hindu life very poor because women were not allowed to possess wealth. On the other hand, we have the writings of Sumangala and Amrapali in Buddhist tradition," he said. That tradition of socio-spiritual liberation was carried forward by people such as Ayyankali, Sree Narayana Guru and Mahatma Phul

ANY COUNTER ARGUMENTS, please?
 
I think you are contradicting here - answer this: is there something called "good" or "bad"?

Seshadri, I like this point.. Now my question is (seeking a philosophical answer)..

1) On what basis we decide and distinguish Good/Bad

2) Who has the authority on this?
 
There are some subtleties which you have to understand, before we can go on a philosophical discussion... so I restrict myself to the social scope in this discussion of vegetarianism...
 
there is always a space in INDIA for refined and unrefined cultures to co-exist.

Our culture is a vibrant one just because of this one reason.

We live and let live...
 
i find it funny.....a northie considers a southie as uncultured and a southie considers a northie as uncultured...how does one define what is cultured?

reg the discussion on vegetarianism by sapr333, this is an idea of some vedic monastic traditions too....they say plants are as much alive as animals...non veg was an acceptable norm then...which i think was coz man had not fully settled from hunting into farming settlements at that time...later the concepts might have developed..
 
thannuir pole mannuir kaapathu dharmam dharmam dharmam than

In mahabharata there's a story of a Rishi who lived on one Nellikai from a Nillekai tree a year. ... his degree of refinement is on highest scale.

A raskashasha slayed by Bheema used to swaha any moveble and unmoveable things his degree of refinement is on the lowest possible scale..

In this way people have different degree of lifestyles in terms of non-harming others in making their livelihood.
 
there is always a space in INDIA for refined and unrefined cultures to co-exist.

Our culture is a vibrant one just because of this one reason.

We live and let live...

Malgova.Mangoe, there is something terribly wrong with this ideology... LIve and Let live.. Thats means you are not worried about the other person, and that, you are only letting him to live, just because he was at your mercy...

Rather, lets look at the higher 'Moral Standards'... Lets help him to live up to a higher life... Its not great to let a begger live in the back yard..Rather, we should work towards brining him up to our life standards, like a 'Good Samaritan'... Dont you feel its right??
Dont you feel, this ideology is better than, the uncaring 'live and let live' ideology?
 
reg the discussion on vegetarianism by sapr333, this is an idea of some vedic monastic traditions too....they say plants are as much alive as animals...

Palindrome, we are in a great dilemma..

1) Its all about karma.. How animals could do good karmic deeds and move up the ladder to become human, then Brahmin and then Brahmin...After all, animals dont know whats good karma and good deed

2) How to distinguish Veg & Non-Veg...Im sure you all would know, the western cheese, which is on most demand globally than our Cottage Cheese(panner), is made out of the enzymes taken from the dead calf's intenstine..(Pls Google)...Im eating bacteria daily..Am I not killing a member of animal kingdom.

3) If bacteria could be killed, cos it doesnt express the pain, then it applies to plants too.. Then it applies the same to abortion.. And same to Death penalty sedated with injection..

Can some body draw the border line?
 
In this way people have different degree of lifestyles in terms of non-harming others in making their livelihood

Malgove.Mangoe,

You are only feeling great that you have not done harm to others... Look at this higher moral standard.. 'Why dont you go out and help those who are harmed by others... Instead of sitting as a mute spectator..
 
Dalit literature will bury Sanskrit under "yards of books", and in the next 20 to 30 years, English will emerge as the national language, according to Dalit activist Prof Kancha Ilaiah.



Inaugurating a national seminar on Dalit writing, organised by the Centre for Comparative Literature, University of Kerala, recently, Prof Ilaiah said Hinduism as a socio-religious force was going to die within the next hundred years and no force would be able to prevent that. Dalit literature alone could challenge the "Hinduised and Sanskritised" Indian literature, he said.



It was wrong to label Dalit literature as post-modern. All the acclaimed writings so far, save those of some authors, had dealt with semi-secular Hindu topics or essentially Hindu topics. All such writings were centred round the Vedas, the Upanishads and the Gita. Literature so far had been a process of Hinduisation of knowledge. Such literature also did not speak anything about civilisation.



Dalit literature was really post-Hindu literature, which sought to do away with Sanskrit symbolisms. This process was set in motion by Dr Ambedkar. Sanskrit was essentially a casteist language, anti-people and anti-production, he charged.



"The so-called reforms initiated by people such as Raja Ram Mohan Roy, including widow remarriage and movement against child marriage, were essentially Brahmanical reforms. Such issues were never issues before the common man, " he said.



The Vedas, the Upanishads and the Gita had not inspired nationalism in Indians. "In fact, the reading of a holy book was not part of the Hindu tradition. Christians read the Bible and Muslims the Koran. The number of people reading the Bible in India was on the rise. But I have not seen so many people reading the Gita. If there had been no Bible and Koran in India, the nation would not have got freedom. If there had been no English, India would not have been a nation," he said.



Dalit literature was basically also about women's emancipation. "Although Saraswati is the goddess of learning in the Hindu mythology, there is no record of Saraswati writing a book. Lakshmi, though she is the goddess of wealth, was in actual Hindu life very poor because women were not allowed to possess wealth. On the other hand, we have the writings of Sumangala and Amrapali in Buddhist tradition," he said. That tradition of socio-spiritual liberation was carried forward by people such as Ayyankali, Sree Narayana Guru and Mahatma Phule.



Today the Dalits in the country had reached a stage where they were no longer willing to fight for their cause with weapons. Now they were fighting through books. "For every trishul that the forces of Hinduism distribute, we will distribute 100 books to Dalit children. Dalit literature has the power to change the Indian social structure, but Indian society is yet to recognise that power," he added


HOW do we handle this guy? I mean Kanja..
 
it takes a lot of jenmas to get refinement ..... do you mean our moral standards of living.. well nothing can be forced.. we can only set an example by living to high moral standards..

Upakaram seiyattiyum upathruvam seiyama erukkalam. that's what we can do.

One can't enforce moral standards.
 
Malgova.Mangoe, there is something terribly wrong with this ideology... LIve and Let live.. Thats means you are not worried about the other person, and that, you are only letting him to live, just because he was at your mercy...

Rather, lets look at the higher 'Moral Standards'... Lets help him to live up to a higher life... Its not great to let a begger live in the back yard..Rather, we should work towards brining him up to our life standards, like a 'Good Samaritan'... Dont you feel its right??
Dont you feel, this ideology is better than, the uncaring 'live and let live' ideology?

your idea of standard of living is based on one's pocket.

mine is on one's attitude towards life itself.

One can live like a Rakshasha or one can live a life of NON-HARMING others to the max. extent possible.
 
One can live like a Rakshasha or one can live a life of NON-HARMING others to the max. extent possible.

Malgova.mangoe, there is still a better higher moral standard when compared to the live of being a RAKSHASHA or just being a NO-Harmer..

ie, Reach out your hands to those who were harmed by Rakshasha and give a lending hand to those on the streets,than just being a mute spectator to say, I have not harmed him!!

I think , I made sense here..
 
Upakaram seiyattiyum upathruvam seiyama erukkalam. that's what we can do.

Malgova.Mangoe,

Upaharam seiyaVedum.. Its obligatory..Thats the higest moral standard..
Correct me if im wrong..
 
good!

Now Rakshashic life-styles are given empowerment and Sadhus are being ridiculed for their life-styles.

Don't worry I'm doing my bit for Sadhoos.
 
Now Rakshashic life-styles are given empowerment and Sadhus are being ridiculed for their life-styles.

Don't worry I'm doing my bit for Sadhoos.

Good sarcasm.. Matter of fact, who ever is suffering , we should reach out with our helping hands.. Thats my view.. I have no political view here.. I understood what you said..
 
My one cent:

There are rishis who ate non-veg and rishis who survived on one neelikai.

As one progresses along the path of spiritual life, slowly they stop eating anything at all.

Buddha died from eating stale pork. If you can imagine how stale pork wud have smelled, then think how they wud have eaten it.

Bhikshuks wud eat anything they got as bhiksha. So did Hindu monastic bhikshuks. They had conquered the sense of taste and smell.

The difference here is between eating something consciously and eating something after having forgotten the conscious self.

When those like agastya, rama, buddha were eating non-veg it cannot be said that "they were eating non-veg" or "they were eating veg" specifically - because they had no sense of attachment to whatever was going down their throat. Even grass wud have tasted the same for them as stale pork.

But we are regular mortals and have craving for various foods like sweets or chettinad chicked curry or even murukku. When we consume out of craving our tamasa guna is at work; and we tend to justify if veg or non-veg is acceptable or not for us based on our own gunam.

We see quickly filled up venues when sadhus of various traditions come to give talks. Maybe this problem of ridicule happens in areas where more people are illiterate.
 
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Kancha Iliah's book is old and stale news.

The book was criticized by leading historian Romila Thapar for promoting pseudohistorical views concerning the origins of Dalits, and for abusing Max Muller's theories concerning the origins of social strata in India as ammunition for Caste confrontation. Thapar essentially dubs this sort of historiography as "extreme" and "weak". Journalist and editor of the Telugu daily M V R Sastry criticized the book for its 'undisguised hatred for the targeted community (Hindus), its crudeness, a general lack of scholarship and academic rigor, the abundance of cheap rhetoric, distortion of facts and finally, the author's total lack of understanding of the religion it seeks to denigrate'.

Another problem was ignoring the facts about the intermediate castes to which he belonged and the practice of untouchability among the Dalits themselves.

A critical review can be found here.

http://vaidikdharm.org/Documents/Why I am not a hindu-Critic.pdf
 
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Hinduism is not definitely declining. It is well and alive. These extreme views about the decline of Hinduism has only as much validity as Kancha Ilaiah's views in his books. Outbursts of anguish and frustration.
 
It would be worthwhile to go through this link:

http://www.animal-rights.com/arsec5q.htm

Plants are not sentient... ie., they do not have the kind of consciousness that humans or animals have...

Plants are alive. They have consciousness. They grow better with music. (plz read abt JC Bose's expreiment). Animals such as lions and tigers are said to lack that 6th sense. But some animals like birds and dogs can sense earthquakes before they happen, which some attribute to the 6th sense in them. What is consciousness in either plants or animals cannot really be defined.

Anything that reproduces can be considered alive. Anything that is alive can be possibly be considered as having some form of consciousness.

The yogis consider that life is sustained by life. Meaning that only a thing which is alive can sustain another thing which is alive. That is why water is considered alive, air is alive...pancha bhutas are alive. Which is why they sustain us as 'alive'.

We breathe in air-borne stuff like bacteria every second. We are actually constantly living in a state of himsa....thence comes the need to move the consciousness out of the animated body and so on the yogis say...
 
Nachhinarkiniyan>>Another problem was ignoring the facts about the intermediate castes to which he belonged and the practice of untouchability among the Dalits themselves>>>

In that book even Kancha couldnt resist telling out his caste identity. There is even discrimination among Dalits. But Brahmins being in this highest social strata, should take the lead and abolish. Like how discrimnation percolated from top to bottom, similarly, casteism can be erased out, if its dealt from the top.

It could be achieved by installing non-brahmins as Sankaracharyas, giving participation to dalits in prime temples, discarding compulsory vegetarian ideology, rituals in tamil etc etc. That would bring confidence in all ... To add, in the process, reservation also should be scrapped.
 
Hinduism is not definitely declining. It is well and alive.

Very well alive, but is declining. The conversions in AP, TN, Bangalore, Orrissa are tremendous. Many a scholars argue that the unofficial figure of Christians could be above 7%.

Islamic conversion is pretty less. Population growth again adds up. Indian census clearly covers them all.
 
Hinduism is not definitely declining. It is well and alive. These extreme views about the decline of Hinduism has only as much validity as Kancha Ilaiah's views in his books. Outbursts of anguish and frustration.

Supposedly, tamil nadu has been fairly resistent to missionary work compared to Ap, kerala and karnataka. According to some people i spoke to andhra pradesh is a growing christian state, one pastor openly decalred on a public stage that within 15 years 3/4th of AP will be xtian at the current rate of 'our growth'.

That growth rate is all because of 'you-know-who', and he is supposed to be a brahmin son-in-law turned christian.... The christian population is supposed to be as high as that of kerala. Hindu monks say people themselves knowingly and shamelessly run after the goodies...Its only the money that is making the difference. Not the religion itself.
 
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