Why many don't want the next birth?

[Raji Ram]

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My grandfather taught Carnatic music right from my very tender age but a few of the songs were banned because

they are very philosophical. When I learnt those songs later on, most of them wished for 'no more births on earth!'

One of the song says, 'maRupadiyum karuvadaiyum kuzhiyil thaLLi varuththap paduththa vEndAm' which means,

'Please do not push me again into a mother's womb and make me suffer!' and another says, 'piRavA varam thArum'

which means 'Grant me a boon not to be born again!'. In another song, birth as a grass / a stone in the Brindavan

gardens is requested (pullAyp piRavi thara vENum) and not the birth as a human!

Why is the next birth as a human scary and unwanted? Or is the birth as any other creature equally scary? :fear:

 

[renuka]

Not wanting rebirth is just a desire..the same as someone who wishes to be King in his next birth.

Everything boils down to desire..even wanting to be free from the cycle of birth and death is a desire.

Frankly speaking many people do not want re birth but they fails to ask themselves if they are actually fit to be free from the cycle of birth and death..mostly think they are entitled to it without even examining themselves.

In the thread I started in General Discussion about "are we as good as we think we are"..one can only be totally free when one is sans vasanas but how do we know when are totally a clean slate?

None of us know our own subconscious but we imagine we are flawless and the start imagining about Moksha etc

Most people want to run away from responsibilities as in escapism.. thinking that Moksha is totally enjoyment jumping from cloud to cloud in some Loka and singing praises of an external God or total merging into some dormant life form.

The truth is none of us really know what Moksha is..the best is just lead life the way we feel suits us best and if there is something called Moksha it will be "conferred" to us eventually as we evolve in our thought process.

Then they are people who wish to be a stone or grass (a Kall or a Pull) in some holy location....thats not really a problem cos the average Indian husband is glorified as in Kallanalum Kanavan Pullanalum Purushan..so no need for wishing anymore!LOL

But sitting and hoping for anything whether its a bottle of JD or sitting and wishing for Moksha is nothing but a DESIRE.

 

[Raji Ram]

Wishing for no more births is a desire, Renu! But why many composers have wished for this?

Is it because to be born again in this world as a human being is so dreadful?

 

[renuka]

Wishing for no more births is a desire, Renu! But why many composers have wished for this?

Is it because to be born again in this world as a human being is so dreadful?

Any situation is dreadful if we do not take life in a stride.

Not everyone has prefect lives but they just focus on what makes them happy.

I was seeing a TV show where a person from USA had injured his spinal cord and was paralyzed waist down.. later on he learnt sky diving cos he said while being up in the sky we do not need legs.

So you see he did not see his life as dreadful..he worked on finding what could still make him happy.

That way I admire westerners they make the best use of life.

BTW for all we Hindus claim to be religious etc..why complain about life? Isnt that insulting God to find human life dreadful when avatars themselves descend in human form?

 

[prasad1]

The goal of Advaita philosophy is not to be born again.

Shankara says:

Verse 21: ~~~~~~~
PUNARAPI JANANAM PUNARAPI MARANAM
PUNARAPI JANANEE JATARE SAYANAM
IHA SAMSAARE BAHUDUSTAARE
KRIPAYAA(A)PAARE PAAHI MURARE
Undergoing the pangs of birth again and again, passing through the throes of death again and again, lying in the mother's womb over and over again, this process of samsara is hard to cross over. Save me from it, Oh merciful Lord !

Moksha also called vimoksha, vimukti and mukti, means emancipation, liberation or release. In eschatological sense, it connotes freedom from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth. In epistemological and psychological sense, moksha connotes freedom, self-realization and self-knowledge.


In Hindu traditions, Moksha is a central concept and included as one of the four aspects and goals of human life; the other three goals are Dharma (virtuous, proper, moral life), Artha (material prosperity, income security, means of life), and Kama (pleasure, sensuality, emotional fulfillment). Together, these four aims of life are called Puruṣārtha in Hinduism.


The concept of Moksha is found In Jainism, Buddhism and Hinduism. In some schools of Indian religions, moksha is considered same as and used interchangeably with other terms such as vimoksha, vimukti, kaivalya, apavarga, and mukti. However, terms such as moksha and nirvana differ and mean different states between various schools of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.The term nirvana is more common in Buddhism, while moksha is more prevalent in Hinduism.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Thank you for your clear reply. The goal of Advaita philosophy is not to be born again. So, many songs are based on this concept.
One more reason is that most of the composers who composed such songs did not lead a happy life and hence prayed for moksha! ray2:

Some are so much devoted to God that they want to be born as stone (for longevity) where they can always get a glance of their Lord!

 

[krish44]

thank you prasadji , a very educative post.

IT appears in normal living ,we think of dharma and moksha only after we have enjoyed in full the other aspects Artha and Kama.

when we grow old , we turn back to see how moral or virtuous we have been in our lives . some how we do not think much of morality in day to day life until some hurt by our actions and views point it out .lol.

would prefer to be reborn again and again as a human being. it has not been a bad life in terms of material prosperity or pleasures of life . could have couple of janmas more to continue this . Dharma and moksha are for better souls . i do not mind being a half hindu as I do not qualify as either as a very moral person or desiring moksha

 

[biswa]

Very good post Prasadji.

Many India philosophers and poets have compared life to a difficult voyage over a turbulent ocean. We must allow that most members of this forum have a somewhat privileged life. In general life could be much, much worse whether as an animal in the Amazon jungle or as a farm animal bred for slaughter.

Make the most of this birth and hope we can get out of the infinite loop.

 

[Rengavaasi]

To be born as a Human being is HIS creation and a rare opportunity for us to serve the Humanity at large.

Our ancient teachers gave us a beautiful idea. They said that there are six enemies of every human being-sadripu. Sad means sastha, six; ripu means enemy.

They are not outside, but within us.

What are they ?

Kama, krodha,lobha, moha,mada, matsarya-
unrestrained lust, anger, greed, delusion, pride and violence.

These are the six enemies in every human being-this is a profound analysis of the human psyche. These are the enemies that create all the trouble.

When such is the reality, many do not want rebirth-because they have to undergo all sorts of happiness and sorrow by remaining in this samsara during their life-time.
We have to utilise our birth for the benefit of mankind and try to reach HIM by serving the poor and following dharma ways.

When it is not 100 % possible in this samsara life, one wants to be liberated and wishes never to be born again !

 

[Rengavaasi]

To be born - whether a curse or blessing ?

And it is not our will whether you will be born again as a human being or anything on earth, it is according to your deeds what you have done during your life-time. Hence, many pray to GOD , let me not be born again !

 

[prasad1]

Krishna verses penned by Syed Ibrahim "Raskhan" , whose poems are sung even today in the Brindaban region, along with a rough translation by yours truly. Raskhan was a muslim who is widely considered to be among the greatest exponents of devotional hindu poetry. He lived at the time of the Mughal emperor Jahangir. His mazhar still exists in a park near Gokul. Urz is celebrated at his mazhar every year.

-Rashmun

Manusha ho to wahi Raskhan, basoN braja Gokula Gaava ke Gvaraan,
Jo pashu ho to kaha bas mero, charo nit Nand ki dhenu manjharan,
paahan ho to wahi giri ki, jo dharyo kar chatra Purandara dharan,
jo khag ho to basero karo,mili kalindi kool kadamb ki daran

(In my next birth):
if i am born human, may i be the same Raskhan whereupon i would go to Braja and dwell with the cowherds in Gokula;
if i am an animal, what else can i do but to go and graze everyday in the midst of Nanda's cows;
if i am a stone, may i be the same mountain holding which Indra was controlled;
if i am a bird, may i live on a branch of the Kadamb tree on the banks of the Yamuna;

But as an Advaitin my goal is the Moksha.
You never know what the next birth will be. But our wishes do not come true and we do not know what actions we will have to perform in this life, that may lead to sorrow.

The goal is be in permanent state of Bliss (ananda), every birth will have its own problems. So we need to escape the cycle of birth and death.

 

[krish44]

there appears to be a general consensus from members that we should escape from this cycle of

birth and death . some feel we will attain the goal of eternal ananda by escaping .

IMHO we we can attain ananda in this birth itself facing less problems if we strive . Why escape

at all .problem is for those who view everything as a problem . for some others it is only another situation we come across in life . A reasonable attitude is not reflecting on rebirth or moksha concepts and try for escape routes .

chitrlalekha tells yogi
sansar se bhaage phirte ho , bhagwan ko tum kya pavoge translate
You are running away from life , how will you reach God

and also invites the yogi to her world of love saying

yeh hai meri prem ki nagari ,

yehan premki hai puja

Hers is the city of love where love is worshipped .

If we do no run away from living and love our fellow beings , we will attain and reach the feet of God.

 

[Raji Ram]

.........
(In my next birth):
if i am born human, may i be the same Raskhan whereupon i would go to Braja and dwell with the cowherds in Gokula;
if i am an animal, what else can i do but to go and graze everyday in the midst of Nanda's cows;
if i am a stone, may i be the same mountain holding which Indra was controlled;
if i am a bird, may i live on a branch of the Kadamb tree on the banks of the Yamuna; .........

Dear Prasad Sir,

There are parallel songs in Tamil also. Posting two of them here:

Pullaai Piravi Tharavenum - Sudha Ragunathan

mann aanaalum Thiruchendhuril - T M S

 

[renuka]

If I had a chance to choose my next life..I would want to be myself over and over again...same face..same person..same everything.

Not that I am obsessed with myself but its just that all I know is only myself.

So there is nothing better than being our own selves.


But the thought of after life(life after death) is scary cos I dont want to end up in some loka with all conservative people!LOL

I might like a hot happening Loka with like minded people!

 

[Raji Ram]

There is something called 'vitta kuRai; thotta kuRai' in Tamil. For Those who have some goals to finish in this life,

God will choose the right family and environment for the soul to be reborn! A four year old who is brought up in a

family of a SaasthrigaL recites many difficult slOkams with ease - hear once and repeat in a perfect way! It amazes

us because he is the one adopted by the parents, soon after he was born! The software engineers who are the real

parents wanted to abort the baby but the kind hearted lady doctor refused and promised to give the child away to

someone known to her, soon after his birth! I think God saved the child and brought him to this new environment

because that soul had a flare for orthodox living and intense bhakthi to God! :thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

...... I might like a hot happening Loka with like minded people!

:nono: Renu! Variety is the spice of life!

If you exist, I should also exist!!

Hope I will not be born as your mother in law ! :lol:

 

[renuka]

There is something called 'vitta kuRai; thotta kuRai' in Tamil. For Those who have some goals to finish in this life,

God will choose the right family and environment for the soul to be reborn! A four year old who is brought up in a

family of a SaasthrigaL recites many difficult slOkams with ease - hear once and repeat in a perfect way! It amazes

us because he is the one adopted by the parents, soon after he was born! The software engineers who are the real

parents wanted to abort the baby but the kind hearted lady doctor refused and promised to give the child away to

someone known to her, soon after his birth! I think God saved the child and brought him to this new environment

because that soul had a flare for orthodox living and intense bhakthi to God! :thumb:

May be its a Karmic debt...could be in a previous life the boy did not take care of his mother well..he had treated her badly ... did not feed her and she died but later on in life he regretted his actions and prayed to God intensely for redemption.

So in this birth he was born to a mother who did not want him..cos she wanted to abort him and I think this is the case where you said she did not even eat well and gave birth to an underweight baby.

So in this life he is rejected by his birth mother cos in his previous life he rejected her and treated her badly but becos of his actions later on in his previous life where he regretted being bad to his mother and he prayed to God with intense bhakti..so in this birth even though he was rejected by his birth mother he was adopted by an orthodox religious family so that he can continue his Bhakti Marg.

So the Karmic debt with him and his birth mother is over and he is on the Bhakti Marg!

Not bad huh? My Karmic theory possibility!

God does not save anyone..our actions decide everything.

 

[renuka]

:nono: Renu! Variety is the spice of life!

If you exist, i should also exist!!

hope i will not be born as your mother in law ! :lol:

lol!

 

[Raji Ram]

May be its a Karmic debt..............

So the Karmic debt with him and his birth mother is over and he is on the Bhakti Marg!

Not bad huh? My Karmic theory possibility!

God does not save anyone..our actions decide everything.

Good guess, Renu! This might be possible!

 

[Raji Ram]

I read something relevant to the topic. Here it is!

கணவன்: சாமி கிட்ட என்னம்மா வேண்டிகிட்ட?

மனைவி: அடுத்த ஜென்மத்திலும் நீங்கதான் என் புருஷனா வரணும்னு வேண்டிகிட்டேன்ங்க...

நீங்க என்னங்க வேண்டிகிட்டீங்க?

கணவன்: எனக்கு அடுத்த ஜென்மமே வேணாம்னு வேண்டிகிட்டேன்...

Translation:

Husband: What did you pray to God?

Wife: I prayed that you should be my husband in my next birth also!

What did you pray?

Husband: I prayed I don't want my next birth!!

 

[vaithehi]

Love for an individual is selfish, when we have selfish desires we create attachments..that leads to bonding...bonding leads to re birth...Therefore Love is not a pleasurable thing if we are attached (too much) to only one person (one human being who is very close)..Therefore LOVE all Have BOND with none

 

[krish44]

Love for an individual is selfish, when we have selfish desires we create attachments..that leads to bonding...bonding leads to re birth...Therefore Love is not a pleasurable thing if we are attached (too much) to only one person (one human being who is very close)..Therefore LOVE all Have BOND with none

why do they give the call Love all for 0-0 in tennis and badminton . any idea.

 

[renuka]

Therefore Love is not a pleasurable thing if we are attached (too much) to only one person (one human being who is very close)..Therefore LOVE all Have BOND with none

That is like friends with benefits....where a person has multiple liaisons but yet does not bond with anyone.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear R V,

We can't love ALL in the same way! For example, a lady can not love her father or her son in the same way as she loves her husband!

Love has different ways of expression according the person concerned, though the basic feature of love is kindness and care!

 

[Raji Ram]

why do they give the call Love all for 0-0 in tennis and badminton . any idea.

May be a sort of warning! :horn:
Love all in and around the court; otherwise you will end up :fencing: and :boxing:!!!

P.S: Love all is the first point in many other games like throwball, volleyball, tennikoit, table tennis, shuttle badminton and so on....