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Why?

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Please permit one more small correction, the member in question did not message me saying they did not want to leave. I misread the e-mail and communicated a wrong impression to Praveen. I take full responsibility for the misunderstanding.

Cheers!

prof,

now that you agreed that you have misread the mail, and yourself being bold and think skinned to bear any attacks (lets say for argument sake, including moderation attacks), i know nothing would stop you. the fault is yours.

two things i need to clarify here.

1) your praising of praveen and critique about moderation, gives me feel, that it could be a divide and rule trick. its more like praising the prime minister,and admonishing the chief justice.

2) there were times you posted thanks and appreciation to sh.KRS and his moderation, when few orthodox were banned or posts deleted or thread closer. not far, in the same 'god thread' it happened once. but when the same rule was applied to another member who shares your view, you got angry.

anyway, you are not involved in this, except but you got emotionally attached to this, and took a break.

it reminds me of a village proverb,esp used among my hostel mates of 90's

<edited the proverb>

Just curious.., when are you going to come back, kick starting with yet another interesting youtube songs? I predict tomorrow, an auspicious day indeed!

the show must go on!!
 
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பழமொழி ஆனாலும் கூட, நல்ல மொழியாக இருக்க வேண்டியது அவசியம் இல்லையா?

எதை வேண்டுமானாலும்
தட்டெழுதலாமா?
:typing:
 
We can grin and bear it once - since it is NOT venomous! :becky:
Reminded of appa's expression "sariyaana Burmaak kaaran!" :pound:


பழமொழி ஆனாலும் கூட, நல்ல மொழியாக இருக்க வேண்டியது அவசியம் இல்லையா?

எதை வேண்டுமானாலும்
தட்டெழுதலாமா?
:typing:
 
Mr. KRS's post #11:

We have established certain guidelines on moderating - of course personal attacks are moderated as well as any statements that embrace violence or encourage the law breaking.
Regarding the statements that 'affect the sentiments' of a group of folks - so far this has been applied on two instances:
1. Because Gurus are in our tradition, unsubstantiated attacks on our Gurus were moderated, because the sentiments of the Bhakthas are involved. A person left the Forum on this account some time ago, because his words were moderated on.
2. Attacks on other religions and sects that are value based from one's own perspective philosophy/religion without any substantiation. I have moderated on many of these including ad hominem attacks across other fellow sects of our religion, as well as other religions.
Now what Professor Nara Ji perhaps is citing is my soft deletion (can be revived easily) of two posts of a member that in my opinion contained material that would inflame passions of a certain group and would be inflammatory. These postings came right after a big tussle with this member on Moderation, which was done both in public (because the person would not use the PM) as well as in private, with Sri Praveen fully involved. Right after the clean up, these two postings were made out of the blue, without any context with little contextual reference to the topic at hand. So I chose to soft delete these two posts (already there was a post with negative comment by another member on these posts that I had to moderate on) and said that these were temporary deletes pending clarifications in private from the poster. Firstly, I wanted to know the authorship and secondly I wanted to get the full meaning so that my interpretation can be answered. But the member chose to disregard my request and chose to challenge the moderators by re-posting the same info. This left us with no choice then.
It was not arbitrary. Such postings would have created more negative responses and guess who had to clean them up? But if the author had discussed the import of the postings with us, and if an explanation attached to the postings context and meaning would have reduced the misconception conveyed by those posts, we would have gladly re-posted. But it was not to be, because the poster took a path that we as moderators can not allow.

I hope this explains.

Dear Mr. KRS,
That does not explain at all. What I posted and you deleted was not something "unsubstantiated attack of our gurus, or attack on other religions and sects, or an ad hominem attack across other fellow sects of our religion, or personal attack of any kind, or a post using abusive words lacking civility". I had just made a comment about the other members being totally in the dark about the reasons for the exit of a certain member from the forum. To be precise I had mentioned in a general way that when a member either leaves the forum or is shown the door I feel deprived of the opportunity to listen to dissent. I do not understand to this moment as to what was so offensive in that to deserve a deletion. When I took it up I was told, in so many words, that it amounted to 'ganging up' and that it is not my business to know what happened. And what more, I was already feeling insulted by the repeated assertions that I am only a "guest"(uninvited, gatecrashing type?) and I have no rights whatsoever-something which we all know and needed no reminding. Hence I decided to take it up with Mr. Praveen and I took it up without any tangible outcome. So I decided to keep away until such time the forum gets better moderation norms implemented. I post this only because what you have posted in the case of Nara should be applicable across the board to all members here, which I find not to be so. I know I am not indispensable to this forum and the forum is not indispensable to me either just as Mr. Nara has said. If you allow this post to stand as it is and people discuss it I will not be participating in that discussion as I do not want to say anything more on this. I leave this wonderful forum only because of intrusive moderation. Thank you.
 
Surajuji,

I can counter you point by point but that is not going to solve anything.

Before posting this i read the message KRSji sent you and it does not have any phrase that related to "ganging up" or similar.
When I took it up I was told, in so many words, that it amounted to 'ganging up' and that it is not my business to know what happened.

He had also mentioned that if you did want to know, you could have private messaged one of us.
I repeat, freedom of expression does not mean one can question the moderation. If at all you wanted to know, a private message is the ideal way and not by posting in public.

Let's put an end to this,

Only a few members have an issue with the moderation and i cannot bend over backwards to accomodate their whims and fancies.
Moderation is a thankless job and if you feel its intrusive, i cannot do anything. Maybe you might have to look into why what you post are being moderated. Maybe it could have been worded in a different way.

Again, if you (and others) decide to stay away, then it is indeed a sad loss for us all. This forum is what it is because of the members. But that does not mean a set of members can hold the forum for ransom.

But if you do come back, I would be the first person to be happy.

I have made my stance clear. Now its upto to you to stay away or come back.
What you decide is your decision and no one forced you to make it. And whatever you decide, i respect it.
 
Why are the moderators being moderated in this thread?

I find it very amusing.Many of my posts have been deleted before but I did not feel bad about it.Some of my post are dumb I admit.

If the moderator feels a post is not suitable or it has served it purpose or it might lead to a "war" and it gets deleted just accept it and move on.
 
Mr. Raju,

Please do not leave; your posts are logical, incisive and educative.

The moderator has a job to do and he can never satisfy all, even when he does not intervene.
Please review your decision.

Mr. KRS's post #11:

I leave this wonderful forum only because of intrusive moderation. Thank you.
 
Praveen/KRS,

looks like few members have personal ego's towards moderation. I thought it was a gang, but now its quite clear, its few individualists from both the sides, are up in arms, with their attitude, 'dont question me', 'dont touch my posts' or 'highly sensitive for correction, may be..

a good suggestion would be, make moderation as a robotic act, than being identified personally as praveen/krs.

make the handle name as 'moderator1, moderator 2 etc.. who ever the moderator is , let him operate that without disclosing their id/regular log id for participation. where as he can as usual do his regular postings.

let the moderator-robot, not write long passages explaining the reason for moderation. long response from moderator may reveal the id vide writing style.

it should be like, just a hammer fall of judge, in red ink or delete.. thats all.. no questions asked, no questions answered.

this i believe, reduces the personal tag towards moderation..

if any one wanna cry, they can only address their roof top shouting towards 'the handle names mod1, mod 1, but not get in to personal think addressing as KRS/praveen..

give it a thought pls


as some one said earlier, the ego's here are as high as eiffle tower.

PS: suraju, i think you should also keep in mind the judicious support given by moderation, when sh.nara opened up a personal thread against you 'Suraju wins'.. that must be green in memory with most of the members here.
 
dear Mr. ShivKc,
You are a real cool guy. :cool:
You did not object to your funny proverb being deleted. :nono:
That is the right spirit sir! :clap2:

actually, while posting, i know that tamil proverb, wont be of good taste.

but then, i brushed all my school days english proverbs/idioms searching for one, nothing came handy. i also tried a translation for that, but that didnt convey the real message.

there is something great with tamil.. for certain way expressing the points, tamil does the job well, than english.

yes, if one claims to be a law abide, then its not just the civil law, he should also abide by the law of village,street,home, law of wife, law of kitchen and last but not least the 'FORUM'.

in a court, if someone questions the judge, or mock him,or re publish critique in news or re posting, or disobey him in the court room, you would only be sentenced immediately for 3 days imprisonment, doesnt matter if your on the side of prosecution or defense.
 
i just observed an interesting thing about the title of this thread, chosen by sh.nara , Why, Why, Why????..

lets make this thread with some interesting posts, than worrying about why this happened.. who is wrong or who is right..

Why?

wonder WHY , this title 'why' is chosen?is it to convey, WHY this kolaveri di'? Sh.nara, pls explain, WHY your silence make more noise here than the thunder? if you never change your mind (to participate), WHY you have one?

sh.nara, for many a WHY's, even i dont have an answer.

why do banks charge me for insufficient funds, when they know that there are no funds.why do i press hard the 'remote control' button, when i know the battery is dead? Why do they used sterilized needles,for death by lethal injection?

why super man stops bullets with his chests, but ducks when a knife is hurled at him?

stop whistling and read on....

do you ever wonder, why you logged registered here, in the first place? there must be a reason right..

pls make a great coming back, and work it out towards that reason. thank you.This invitation is to my sweet best pal and the role model parent, sh.YAMAKA also


சிங்கத்தின் கால்கள் பழுதுபட்டாலும், சீற்றம் குறைவதுண்டோ ?







 
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okay folks,

let me please, present another view of moderation.

this is in no way reflecting of moderation in this forum, which i abide by and basically work with. for that matter, the moderation here is no different in its execution than any other forum that i know.

but then, maybe and just maybe, we should strive to be a little better than gravel banging judgements in bright red colours?

let me explain.. if i were a forum owner and i see a valuable collection of diverse participants, i would cherish them. whether these bicker or break each other skulls, indulge in love fest or just quote after quote their erudition, these are the crown jewels, on whose presence, a forum is valued, and word spreadaround.

legally we may all be equal, but come off it, each of us is gifted with certain talents, and i would be wrong, if i dont say, that we are proud as a peacock to strut around these threads, showing off what we know. it is exciting to know, that various corners of the earth, are brought together instantaneously here in this cyber page, something that even we could not have dreamt 20 years ago.

if a certain group leaves, there is a vacuum in the forum, for that niche knowledge and excitement. not easily or quickly or may be never refilled. it takes after all two hands to clap, and a moderator, should ensure that 'like the gates to russia as napoleon found', goes only one way. no exit ;)

so what is to me an ideal moderator (IM)? again i wish to reiterate, this is not a judgement call on KRS or praveen, but my vision.

an IM is a teacher. should be good enough, with a lot of patience, to guide the participants to expressing their views, directly at each other's views, and not persons. where topics or posts get excited, call a 24 hour or such truce period, and let the involved parties have time to think and reflect, before rejoining the fray. peacekeeping is, i think, a key skillset, and not easily achieved.

most of the time, we respond, in the heat of the moment, to posts, with the anger boiling inside us, and once the 'enter' button is tapped, we are but trapped in the adversity generated by our finger tips, passions, though not necessarily our common sense.

'time out' is a great disarming tool. does not poke anyone's egoes, and gives time for people to give second thoughts. atleast i think so.

the skillset of the moderator, should also be a passion for the membership, and ensure clarifications, as many a folks here, use the english language, with a gusto, not quite aware of some of the nuances, which though may be acceptable in one culture, is found gross in another. after all, inspite of our common background, we are separated by nationalities and civilizations, and the fact, is much as we try to deny it, traces of where we abode does smear the fingerprints that we leave here.

many of us, may have experienced, more than once, of being misunderstood, or misunderstanding a post, simply because, english is after all alien to us, and on top of that, we present it in a passive written form, void of human interaction. i may read angry, what you intended as a mild comment. and vice versa.

to sum up, a moderator, is an educator, english language teacher, peace keeper, who through his behaviour earns the trust of the members so that an appeal, they know, will be considered only a last resort, and the decision will be willingly accepted by all; and seldom, very seldom, a judge. all this takes a special type of maturity and care, for the person, and for the forum.

a good facilitating skillset, to handle the various viewpoints, ensure that each is fairly and rightly presented and members of extreme views accept and like each other, though not each other's views - all this are the job qualifications of an ideal moderator.

all this for nothing? no rewards? :) no surprise, the general feeling here, is that it is a thankless job :)

thank you folks, for letting me say my bit.

as typical in this type of postings, i have said all that i can say, and is more a wishful thinking on my part, along the terms of 'what would have I have done in such circumstances' scenario. not inclined for arguements or any serious further discussions from me, re this one.

sorrry. :(
 
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so what is to me an ideal moderator (IM)? again i wish to reiterate, this is not a judgement call on KRS or praveen, but my vision.

an IM is a teacher. should be good enough, with a lot of patience, to guide the participants to expressing their views, directly at each other's views, and not persons. where topics or posts get excited, call a 24 hour or such truce period, and let the involved parties have time to think and reflect, before rejoining the fray. peacekeeping is, i think, a key skillset, and not easily achieved.


the skillset of the moderator, should also be a passion for the membership, and ensure that many a folks here, use the english language, with a gusto, not quite aware of some of the nuances, which though may be acceptable in one culture, is found gross in another. after all, inspite of our common background, we are separated by nationalities and civilizations, and the fact, is much as we try to deny it, traces of where we abode does smear the fingerprints that we leave here.

to sum up, a moderator, is an educator, english language teacher, peace keeper, who through his behaviour earns the trust of the members so that an appeal, they know, will be considered only a last resort, and the decision will be willingly accepted by all; and seldom, very seldom, a judge.

a good facilitating skillset, to handle the various viewpoints, ensure that each is fairly and rightly presented and members of extreme views accept and like each other, though not each other's views - all this are the job qualifications of an ideal moderator.

sh.kunjuppu, that was a wonderful armchair script done for an ideal mod job. point taken. but then, what makes you not fitting here? which skill set you feel you are lacking with?

another quest is, what if Nara/Yam/HH were made as moderators. what skill set you feel they also may lack.

if the answer is NO to both, then, do you have any person in mind to nominate for this job, who ideally fits in to this bill?

when you look it at that tone, you may end up saying, something is better than nothing!
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

You said:
so what is to me an ideal moderator (IM)? again i wish to reiterate, this is not a judgement call on KRS or praveen, but my vision.

I can categorically state, dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji, I do not have an iota of the skills you portray for an IM. I leave it up to Sri Praveen to self assess, if he is so inclined.

I am a simpleton, lacking in all three areas you highlight. I have neither the intelligence nor the patience to be a teacher. Not armed with great language skills, nor do I have a Solomon's wisdom that imparts justice.

I look at the world very simply. As one becomes a 'crown jewel' of this Forum, it perhaps should fall upon that person to display what all you mention above. I think that the onus is on the membership to understand the rules and behave accordingly, so that the Forum can be a safe place for everyone to speak one's mind without fear. This is the fundamental job of a Moderator, IMHO. By the way, just because one is among the jewels of this Forum, in my opinion, does not give them any more 'rights' than a Newbie, because, that would not be right. I often tell folks that we are all guests here - and as you can see, some folks take umbrage at that comparison. But let me explain this:

1. One is a guest, because the host allows one in in to a household, and in this case, free of charge.
2. A guest sees other guests, some long standing for sure, but nevertheless has the same rights as those other guests.
3. Guests have the responsibility not to get in to fights with other guests.
4. Guests do not have the right to abuse other guests.
5. Guests have the responsibility to obey the house rules.
6. If a guest violates rules 3, 4, and 5 above, then they are subject to any action by the host.
7. A guest can not question the actions of the host, because by definition, a host always holds the larger interests of the household and all guests in mind.
8. A guest has no inherent right to be a guest.

So, there you go.

I am sorry. I am not an ideal moderator by your definition. I am trying to do the best I can.

By the way, this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation I have had with one of our 'crown jewels'. To my comment that I get criticized by both camps on moderation and so it shows that I am impartial, this person said that it only shows that both sides see me as partial to the other side!

Regards,
KRS
 
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This is funny, this is taking democracy to its death. There are limits in every sphere of life. We have to accept them or find another location. A disgruntled person leaves a company and the workers are wanting the CEO's head. I think this thread has served its purpose. Mr. KRS you are doing an admirable and thankless job, giving Mr. Praveen some well deserved time, but you keep defending your position you are not doing your job. Do your job to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where ever they do. If you have second thought about your qualification and your abilities then get over it.
Please accept my appreciation of your job.
Be strong and make the decision and then be firm in enforcing it uniformly.
 
421 (a). ஊருக்கென்று ஒரு தாசி இருந்தால் யாருக்கென்று அவள் ஆடுவாள்?

421 (b). If you try to please everyone, you will please no one.

(Source my blog of parallel proverbs in English and Tamil)
 
Many members are giving suggestions regarding moderation. I think it would be better to make suggestion directly to the owner or moderator than contributing to the "why" thread. Although the suggestions are well intentioned, it does give a scope to interpret that the present moderator/moderation is not upto the mark.

My suggestion is that the "Like" button should be disbanded, as from many previous messages I gather that the "Like" is the starting point of clichés or groups. Let the admirers of a post pen an appreciation post.
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

I think that the onus is on the membership to understand the rules and behave accordingly, so that the Forum can be a safe place for everyone to speak one's mind without fear. This is the fundamental job of a Moderator, IMHO.

sh.kunjuppu, of all the list, i think, you missed this key specs for an IM.. ie, 'making it a safe place for every one to speak one's mind'.

* not letting the mob rule
*not letting the high vocab english gang to rule the simpletons
* not letting the west rule east.

list is endless.. i think, that point said by sh.krs makes lot of sense.. not letting the mob rule the forum with high handedness over newbies.
 
Hi Sri Prasad1 Ji,

Please don't interpret my willingness to engage in conversations about concepts of Moderation as any sign of self doubt or weakness.

My vision about Moderation is what I stated. And as long as I am a Moderator, I will do my job as I have always done. My job requires only one person's approval, no one else's.

Regards,
KRS
 
I was about to click the "like" but was not sure whether I was going against your suggestion and so kept quiet!

Many members are giving suggestions regarding moderation. I think it would be better to make suggestion directly to the owner or moderator than contributing to the "why" thread. Although the suggestions are well intentioned, it does give a scope to interpret that the present moderator/moderation is not upto the mark.

My suggestion is that the "Like" button should be disbanded, as from many previous messages I gather that the "Like" is the starting point of clichés or groups. Let the admirers of a post pen an appreciation post.
 
I wonder how group-ism entered the Forum where everyone enters at

different times as individuals? :bump2:

Why this blind affinity defying reason and logic??
:noidea:
 
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