Yet another failed marriage

[suraju06]

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Dear Prasad,

The OP is like watching a thriller only upto the interval/intermission. We do not know what exactly happened between the boy and girl for such a serious decision.You have been repeatedly raising the point why the parents did not accept divorce and instead sent the girl to US alone. In TB households, divorce is a very serious matter for many reasons. So the effort will be first to avoid it as far as possible. That is why the effort again and again to make it work. The girl was perhaps very bold and was willing to go to us and confront the boy one last time before the final parting of ways. Unless you tell us, if you know, the reason for the trouble, it will all be speculation only.

Cheers

 

[renuka]

Prasad Sir

i feel sorry for the girl and her parents even if they are on the wrong side; in these types of cases, the girl and her parents suffer more; as both boy and girl are highly educated and fairly wealthy, probably their egoism played a major role in their disagreement.

Dear Sir,

Sometimes we can't feel sorry for anyone who is not on the right side..why should a girl be given immunity even if she is wrong just becos she is a female.

Both men and women are equal partners in a marriage..so we can not hold the male always 100% guilty for everything gone wrong in marriage.

In my job as a doctor I see enough cases of battered wives and also mentally stressed up and and battered husbands.

Marriage should be like a partnership where both should behave.
We woman want equal rights so no immunity should be conferred just based on gender.

BTW I disagree to generalize that high education and wealth gives rise to egoism.
Even girls and guys with less education and money divorce at the drop of a hat and can be selfish to the core.

A richer and educated person has more to lose cos reputation too could be affected especially if a person is well known..so they will work harder to mend ties.

 

[renuka]

BTW I think the whole Indian society as a whole including every caste and religion view Divorce as a death sentence.

So many attempts will be made to save the marriage.

So it is not only a TBs that view divorce seriously.

 

[P.J.]

Renukaji

I feel sorry for the Girl and her parents because, it might be very difficult for the girl to accept and marry another guy whereas most men are mentally different in this respect; Unlike in Western Countries, a divorced Hindu girl carries a stigma which is a burden she carries throughout her life; any disagreement between the divorced girl and her new husband will ultimately touch girl's past life and whenever it comes up, the Girl will cringe under the weight of her old memories.

 

[renuka]

Renukaji

I feel sorry for the Girl and her parents because, it might be very difficult for the girl to accept and marry another guy whereas most men are mentally different in this respect; Unlike in Western Countries, a divorced Hindu girl carries a stigma which is a burden she carries throughout her life; any disagreement between the divorced girl and her new husband will ultimately touch girl's past life and whenever it comes up, the Girl will cringe under the weight of her old memories.

Dear Sir,

Times have changed a lot..many divorcees remarry eventually and men are getting broadminded and do not bring up past history.
A divorcee most of the while marries another divorcee and since both have past history so there should be a better understanding.

In that way I admire the local Non Indian people here..for them once a person is a divorcee somehow men will want to marry them and they also get married very fast and they do not carry seeds of a past failed marriage and sow it in the new marriage.

I have noted that many Indian divorcees here tend to be Once Bitten Twice Shy and become bitter and view every male with suspicion.
Even if they get married again..somehow they try to control the new husband.

They should learn to view a new marriage as a new beginning and not ruin it with seeds of hatred from the past.

Dear Sir..these days we have to listen to both side of a story before feeling pity for anyone.

The so called innocent divorcees are not always females.

Woman these days are educated enough to know the consequences of their actions..so if she caused the divorce than she has to learn to live with the stigma or move on with life.

I have seen many local Non Indian divorcees here who venture out into the business field and become successful business woman and end up living happily with their children.

So for some..sometimes a divorce is also a launching pad and they do not really miss the presence of a male in their life.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Divorces are becoming common in India. Divorces are fairly common among the Hindu community in Kerala. Now it is becoming common among the Bengalis and Tamil Brahmins. Divorcees are getting remarried. There are matrimonial sites exclusively for divorcees. Even the conservative Tamil Matrimonial sites have an exclusive section for them.

But look into your hearts.Do you think all the old marriages were successful? How many men and women have had undergo a life of torture just because they could not get out of the shackles of marriage? A lifelong punishment?

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad,

The OP is like watching a thriller only upto the interval/intermission. We do not know what exactly happened between the boy and girl for such a serious decision.You have been repeatedly raising the point why the parents did not accept divorce and instead sent the girl to US alone. In TB households, divorce is a very serious matter for many reasons. So the effort will be first to avoid it as far as possible. That is why the effort again and again to make it work. The girl was perhaps very bold and was willing to go to us and confront the boy one last time before the final parting of ways. Unless you tell us, if you know, the reason for the trouble, it will all be speculation only.

Cheers

I understand your explanation. At this time I do not know the reason for the failure of the marriage, and I am not going to speculate.

 

[prasad1]

Divorces are becoming common in India. Divorces are fairly common among the Hindu community in Kerala. Now it is becoming common among the Bengalis and Tamil Brahmins. Divorcees are getting remarried. There are matrimonial sites exclusively for divorcees. Even the conservative Tamil Matrimonial sites have an exclusive section for them.

But look into your hearts.Do you think all the old marriages were successful? How many men and women have had undergo a life of torture just because they could not get out of the shackles of marriage? A lifelong punishment?

I agree with this post. I agree that it is better to be separate and happy than be unhappily married.
I had a thread
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/9447-happily-divorced.html#post147909

 

[prasad1]

prasad,

Though divorces are becoming common among the Tamil Brahmins, the society/organized religion does not accept divorce. I know a girl who is a divorcee and who got married recently. Her father is on first name terms with one of the Peeta Acharyas. Their family has been closely associated with the Peetam for generations. But the Acharya refused to meet the couple or bless them. When I asked the Bride's father he told me that the Mutt was aginst divorce and there was a lot of opposition for her getting a divorce.

I am not posting this as a criticism of the attitude of the Peetams. I want to show the amount of opposition that the girl's parents would face if the girl takes a divorce. But what the girl's parents should realize is that it is the girl's welfare which is of paramount importance and not the approval of religious authorities.

In the particular case I quoted, the Mutt authorities had become cold towards the girl's parents when she got a divorce. But they were still accepted. The girl continued to met the Acharya even after her divorce and got his blessings. After her second marriage she met the Acharya alone and got his blessings.

The Tamil Brahmin society does not approve of Divorce. The peetams/Acharyas only reflect that attitude.

We can only hope that it will change.

This explanation seems to be the reason for the girls parents, as they are very close to Kanchi Mutt.

 

[prasad1]

The marriage scene in India is very vitiated, according to reports. I presume the girl and her parents are located in or near ND, is this correct? If so, it may be worthwhile to bear in mind that there is, reportedly, a flourishing "Divorce Industry" in those areas (and also Bengaluru, I am told). There are lawyers specialized in this area and they are employing agents also; some marriage brokers themselves double up as touts for these divorce lawyers.

I strongly suspect that the girl's parents have acted in this case as per the advice of some such lawyer. While I am no expert in such matters, may be the girl coming back to India without any hubbub or commotion was not "legally" attractive and the lawyer wants to make a case under sec 496 which will make it an non-bailable offence and the girl's side may even have the boy's passport withheld by the court so that the boy's future is completely and irrevocably destroyed. May be that the girl and her parents did not want the boy to go to the US and he did not mind them. This sort of a small discontent is suitably made use of by the divorce lawyers and the norm is that once the court pronounces the monetary part of the punishment the lawyer takes half of it.

Even poor and middle-class families are reportedly lured by these lawyers into extracting the maximum money from the boy's side. People living in ND area are therefore doubly cautious to please the girl's side and keep them in good humour at all costs, it seems.

Divorce in such cases is not given easily and early, because, it seems, the longer the marriage lasts on paper, the longer the period for which the husband will have to pay the maintenance amount and this will increase the total amount of monetary punishment at the end of the case.

Though Shri Prasad sir states that the girl's side are rich people, they might have fallen into this kind of trap just to "teach a lesson" to the boy. It is worth making discreet enquiries on this possibility, imho.

It is possible, but highly improbable. The girl's parent are not vindictive, the girl herself is not vindictive. It seems they are better people than I. I would like to do what you are alluding to.

In addition they are über rich, money is of no concern, and they have only this one child.

 

[Raji Ram]

The matrimonial sites are all flourishing because they have a separate section for re-marriages for divorcees!

 

[sankara_sharmah]

The matrimonial sites are all flourishing because they have a separate section for re-marriages for divorcees!

Not a separate section. But under classification of marriage there is a separate classification of Divorcee as well as Separated. The next row is about Number of Children.

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[TD="width: 30%"]Marital Status:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 30%, align: left"]Have Children:[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
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[prasad1]

Divorces are becoming common in India. Divorces are fairly common among the Hindu community in Kerala. Now it is becoming common among the Bengalis and Tamil Brahmins.

I would like to emphasis these words, we need to accept the new normal at least in Metro cities.

Though divorces are becoming common among the Tamil Brahmins, the society/organized religion does not accept divorce.

 

[suraju06]

1) In a site near my residence in Chennai there is hectic construction activity going on for construction of a multi-storied building. The construction workers are from Orissa and Andhra. The marriage is just a matter of convenience for these consruction workers. Men and women change their partners just whimsically. Of course they are happy always once the sun sets. This is one extreme of the society where divorce is as simple and easy as changing your clothes.
2) I know of a club in a metro. The club is exclusive to very rich men and women only. Here the weekly rave parties end up with a funny and strange ritual. All the male members deposit their car keys inside a box. The female members have to just blindly pick up a key each from the box. After the party is over the member goes with that male member(whose key the member has picked) in his car to spend the night with him. This is the other extreme of the society in which marriage as well as divorce are just irrelevant to individuals.Life has to be lived fully and adventurously without any shackles. Yes, you have to have a child to inherit all the riches you will be leaving behind and for that you enter into a joint venture with your spouse.

Majority of TBs are middle class people. They have all sorts of moral codes to follow. They can not break many time honored moral principles. So for them changing a spouse is not an easy decision. Divorce is avoided by all means.Only if every effort has failed divorce is resorted to. Acharyas would not even tacitly support divorces for fear that it may encourage sishyas to go for it.

This is the reality today. But times will change.


Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

1) In a site near my residence in Chennai there is hectic construction activity going on for construction of a multi-storied building. The construction workers are from Orissa and Andhra. The marriage is just a matter of convenience for these consruction workers. Men and women change their partners just whimsically. Of course they are happy always once the sun sets. This is one extreme of the society where divorce is as simple and easy as changing your clothes.
2) I know of a club in a metro. The club is exclusive to very rich men and women only. Here the weekly rave parties end up with a funny and strange ritual. All the male members deposit their car keys inside a box. The female members have to just blindly pick up a key each from the box. After the party is over the member goes with that male member(whose key the member has picked) in his car to spend the night with him. This is the other extreme of the society in which marriage as well as divorce are just irrelevant to individuals.Life has to be lived fully and adventurously without any shackles. Yes, you have to have a child to inherit all the riches you will be leaving behind and for that you enter into a joint venture with your spouse.

Majority of TBs are middle class people. They have all sorts of moral codes to follow. They can not break many time honored moral principles. So for them changing a spouse is not an easy decision. Divorce is avoided by all means.Only if every effort has failed divorce is resorted to. Acharyas would not even tacitly support divorces for fear that it may encourage sishyas to go for it.

This is the reality today. But times will change.


Cheers.

Raju sir,
I do not believe your first paragraph at all.
The 2nd paragraph is probable (surprise is chennai), i have heard of it in Mumbai. It was in the newspapers sometimes back.

Acharyas would not even tacitly support divorces for fear that it may encourage sishyas to go for it.


This is the reality today. But times will change.

Obviously I do not have great respect for these actors (the so called religious leaders).

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Morality is the ... of the middle class. Have you not heard of Middle class morality? Remember the words ""I am poor, I can't afford morals" Search in Google for Middle Class Morality.

Then you talk about "vices of the rich".

Morality is the sword with which the middle class attack the poor and the rich. When you are poor you can not afford Morality. When you are rich you do not care.

Most of the Tamil Brahmins cling to their Middle class Morality/Values even when they are financially rich.

 

[sravna]

People need to take marriage very seriously. It should be viewed as a lifetime commitment. To facilitate that, enough care should be taken to find the right match and selection should be made for the right reasons and not for superficial ones like the status, wealth etc. But very unfortunately we find this superficial mindset beginning to pervade the society. Unless this mindset reverses we will find the marriage relationship very fragile and easily breakable.

So I think we should at least first try to bring the symptom under control even if we find the real problem formidable. In that direction getting a divorce should be made very difficult and dissuaded by law and any relationship other than marriage should be made illegal. By these and other forceful measures we thus not let the situation go out of control as it is happening in the west. It is like disciplining the children.

Then we can think of long term solutions by trying to educate the impressionable young generation especially about the importance of values and that only a principled life is the way to lasting happiness.

IMO the girls parents were right in a deeper sense because they do not want to give up on the marriage so easily but that sentiment unfortunately as I said would appear not sensible given the prevailing mindset of people. Only when people begin to see beyond the superficial they begin to appreciate such sentiments which are grounded in values.

 

[prasad1]

People need to take marriage very seriously. It should be viewed as a lifetime commitment. To facilitate that, enough care should be taken to find the right match and selection should be made for the right reasons and not for superficial ones like the status, wealth etc. But very unfortunately we find this superficial mindset beginning to pervade the society. Unless this mindset reverses we will find the marriage relationship very fragile and easily breakable.

So I think we should at least first try to bring the symptom under control even if we find the real problem formidable. In that direction getting a divorce should be made very difficult and dissuaded by law and any relationship other than marriage should be made illegal. By these and other forceful measures we thus not let the situation go out of control as it is happening in the west. It is like disciplining the children.

Then we can think of long term solutions by trying to educate the impressionable young generation especially about the importance of values and that only a principled life is the way to lasting happiness.

IMO the girls parents were right in a deeper sense because they do not want to give up on the marriage so easily but that sentiment unfortunately as I said would appear not sensible given the prevailing mindset of people. Only when people begin to see beyond the superficial they begin to appreciate such sentiments which are grounded in values.

Sir,
Your picture showed a younger mindset, I am sorry.
In this case the marriage was arranged for all the right reasons. Even jadgam match was done, the families knew through other relations. How much more can be achieved?

Yet you want the punish the girl, for the boy's mistake. Wah re wah ye kaysa nyay hai?
I am deeply saddened by your backward thinking.

 

[Raji Ram]

I have no right to comment about this girl's family, since I do not know anything about them. But people can not blame only

the boys for ALL the divorces. I have already written about how a boy in my close circle of relatives got actually cheated,

even after taking all sorts of precautions before fixing his wedding. The girl was so quiet that they thought she will make the

best partner for the talkative and jovial boy! But the parent of this girl had given sedative medicines to her, when she stayed

with the boy's family for a few days along with her parents, to see the future style of living. If the spy work was done prior to

the wedding to find out the real picture of the girl, then at least this alliance would have been stopped. I feel very sad when I

see the brand new silk saree presented to me on that occasion. I had reserved it for this Diwali and did not wear it since the

'divorce news' came to me!


It is embarrassing for any couple to frankly discuss with relatives, including their parents, about their intimate relationship.

And if this relationship is not good, it is sure to mar the marriage and lead to a divorce!

 

[sravna]

Sir,
Your picture showed a younger mindset, I am sorry.
In this case the marriage was arranged for all the right reasons. Even jadgam match was done, the families knew through other relations. How much more can be achieved?

Yet you want the punish the girl, for the boy's mistake. Wah re wah ye kaysa nyay hai?
I am deeply saddened by your backward thinking.

Dear Shri Prasad,

Think of this without any prejudice. What would happen to the society if divorce became so easy, that it is granted at the drop of a hat. Marriage loses its meaning and would be usurped by arrangements such as live-in and in my opinion other undesirable alternatives . So IMO it is in the best interest of the society that we try to preserve this longstanding tradition. Also Shri Prasad all that is old is not backward thinking just as all that is new is not forward thinking.

 

[tbs]

hi sravna....

o I think we should at least first try to bring the symptom under control even if we find the real problem formidable. In that direction getting a divorce should be made very difficult and dissuaded by law and any relationship other than marriage should be made illegal. By these and other forceful measures we thus not let the situation go out of control as it is happening in the west. It is like disciplining the children.


nice words...now in our TamBram INNOCENT DIVORCESS MORE THAN UNMARRIED GIRLS... these are new trends now a days...

like u said disciplining children more diifficult in west....if we want to say something abt wife like disciplining ...we will be

UNDER DOMESTIC VILONCE......if we discipline our kids....WE ARE UNDER CHILD ABUSE.....we can see a lot of stories

like that...finally we will be trouble in any way...if the same rule india...most of the husbands in jail.....most of the parents in jail too..

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TBS,

The problem is we let it somewhat go out of our control. Let us at least realize the mistake and do what needs to be done.

I think you are probably a bit out of date regarding the facts on domestic violence in the west. It is now abuse of husband and abuse of parents too.

 

[tbs]

hi sravna,


I think you are probably a bit out of date regarding the facts on domestic violence in the west. It is now abuse of husband and abuse of parents too.

im not out of date...recent story of telugu parents and recent IT guys in USA....ultimately the men are suffering.....no gal is under

arrest now.....all laws support women folks....ONLY MEN AND HIS PARENTS ARE ALWAYS TROUBLE IN DOMESTIC./CHILD ABUSE

CASES... NOT A SINGLE WOMAN....ACCORDING TO LAW ...ALL WOMEN ARE GOOD.. ALL MEN ARE BAD....just latest info...


BBC News - Norway court jails Indian parents in 'child abuse' case

 

[sravna]

hi sravna,

im not out of date...recent story of telugu parents and recent IT guys in USA....ultimately the men are suffering.....no gal is under

arrest now.....all laws support women folks....ONLY MEN AND HIS PARENTS ARE ALWAYS TROUBLE IN DOMESTIC./CHILD ABUSE

CASES... NOT A SINGLE WOMAN....ACCORDING TO LAW ...ALL WOMEN ARE GOOD.. ALL MEN ARE BAD....just latest info...


BBC News - Norway court jails Indian parents in 'child abuse' case

Dear Shri TBS,

Again the problem is our reaction to one extreme is that we swing to the other extreme. What is really needed is what would be just irrespective of the past. Just because some injustice was meted out in the past we should not overreact in the present.

 

[renuka]

arrest now.....all laws support women folks....ONLY MEN AND HIS PARENTS ARE ALWAYS TROUBLE IN DOMESTIC./CHILD ABUSE

CASES... NOT A SINGLE WOMAN....ACCORDING TO LAW ...ALL WOMEN ARE GOOD.. ALL MEN ARE BAD....

Dear TBS Garu,

Yes I fully agree with you..in fact the law does not protect an underage boy too as it protects an underage girl.

Out here sometimes girls who are underage entice their underage boyfriends to have sexual relationships with them and when the parents of the girl finds out the girl goes free and the boy gets charged with statutory rape.

I feel if both are minors the law should reform both and not just punish the underage boy alone.

If the guy is an adult and the girl is underage only then it is fair if the guy is charged with statutory rape.

But who wants to listen..I even wrote once in the papers here but no use..every one wants only females to be protected at any cost.

That is why I have informed my son to be very careful of girls these days.

I feel it is harder protecting boys these days..I feel girls and boys should be treated equally and law should not be biased to females alone.

Coming to marriage...Many relatives of the bride poison a bride's mind by telling her to control the husband,use his money..do not contribute to the house etc...these days I feel some wives are nothing more than glorified mistresses.

I have no idea why are people viewing each other with so much suspicion in a marriage?

Why can't people take one day at a time.

Everyone wants immediate perfection but do not bother to maintain and repair any flaws.

Taking a person for granted is the worst possible venom a marriage can have.

In an Indian marriage intimacy and expressions of love is not something always thought about.

We Indians take pride in saying that 'We do not keep on saying I love you to each other but our marriages last longer than the half life of plastic"

But frankly speaking I feel we need to also demonstrate how we feel to keep a marriage alive and the spark of love burning.

We should makes some changes in our life style to pay attention to each others needs.

The Indian marriage most of the while is in Auto Pilot mode and flying in the sky of monotony most of the while.

Someone should take a survey of all these so called long lasting marriages and the answer we might find most of the while is that the spouses had no idea how they managed to put up with all the problems!

So basically long lasting does not mean happiness..its just like the stainless steel plates that can last a lifetime and take in all the dents and finally we get a dysfunctional plate!LOL