america today

[amala]

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Since both groups seem to run the same risk, it clearly shows its the men that are the problem or rather their minds...not women or their dressing (or lack of!). If we blame women for provocative dressing, then how come all covered up too they are in risk? We cant win!

 

[Nara]

Since both groups seem to run the same risk, it clearly shows its the men that are the problem or rather their minds...not women or their dressing (or lack of!). If we blame women for provocative dressing, then how come all covered up too they are in risk? We cant win!

Amala, you expressed the thought that ran through my mind. If a girl dares to bare, that makes the girl too daring for her own good, to the point of inviting trouble, so, if trouble arrives, she asked for it, is it? This kind of thinking is a result of the notion, nurtured by our hoary tradition, of equating girls with Sri or Parvathi. This makes it easy for us to blame the girls themselves for any violence they may suffer -- it is their own fault for being provocative.

Amala, violence and ill-treatment against women is not uncommon in the west, but at least this kind of blaming the victim as though they provoked the attack is not accepted by the majority. In cases when a girl is attacked, every attempt is made to make the girl whole again, to the extent possible. I wish our Tamil/Indian girls also get such compassionate treatment, even when they dare to bare.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Since both groups seem to run the same risk, it clearly shows its the men that are the problem or rather their minds...not women or their dressing (or lack of!). If we blame women for provocative dressing, then how come all covered up too they are in risk? We cant win!

Dear Amala,

I just want to share my opinion with you....Correct me if I am wrong....

Girls have the tendency to reveal their beauty and to be attractive to men

Girls compete with each other to prove who is more beautiful and who is more attractive

Girls feel emabarased if they are not well groomed up and not looking great, in front of group of guys.

Girls likes a guy for his intelligence, honesty and or his success levels

Girls like a guy for his physical appearance/attractions too and it’s the basic.

-These are the natural tendencies of girls/women……It’s the creation


Men die for the beauty of grils, though he is not handsome

Men get attracted towards the beauty of the girls and natrually get seduced by her beauty
(without the girl personally seducing him)

Men have the natural tendency to be in lust irrespective of the beauty of the girls

-These are the natural tnedencies of boys/men……It’s the creation


(I) If girls wants to reaveal their beauty/sexyness with special costumes, they can do…

- Men would be attracted for sure. Mens who are careful about society and legal actions would not dare to touch her. Some of the others would do and will be prosecuted and punished.

- For this, such guys would be undergoing punishment socially and leagally. He may repent or may not. But his image will be ruined.

- Affected girls can be proud to have taken and achieved legal actions against such guys

- She may or may not feel, for what way she is been affected buy those guys.


(2) If girls want heself not to be exposed her sexyness and reasonably be presentable (or covered)

- Men may not get much attracted towards her and would not be arosed.

- Men may still get attracted, but his animal instinct would not overrule him

- Its very rare for these girls to be raped by some men…Only psychos, dugg addicts and extraordinarily sexually obsessed guys would attack such girls.



1)Girls can either choose to be prepared as per first category
2)Or Girls can choose to be presentable as per second category


As long as both are happy with their choice and style, there is absolutely nothing wrong….

If guys overrule their tendencies, they can be happy..If they could not controll their naturally tendencies than they would be behind bars.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

To put it in a nutshell...

If girls want to tease men, they can exhibit their assets and get into trouble.

If girls want to please men, they better cover up and be as safe as is possible!
eace:

 

[amala]

My replies in black.

Dear Amala

,

I just want to share my opinion with you....Correct me if I am wrong....

Girls have the tendency to reveal their beauty and to be attractive to men

Girls compete with each other to prove who is more beautiful and who is more attractive


Girls feel emabarased if they are not well groomed up and not looking great, in front of group of guys.

I'm not sure we can generalise girls so broadly as you are doing. I speak for me alone. I wouldn't be embarassed if I'm not well groomed and not looking great in front of a group of guys who I don't care about at all. It doesnt matter to me one way or the other what they think of me.

Girls likes a guy for his intelligence, honesty and or his success levels

Girls like a guy for his physical appearance/attractions too and it’s the basic.

-These are the natural tendencies of girls/women……It’s the creation


Men die for the beauty of grils, though he is not handsome

Men get attracted towards the beauty of the girls and natrually get seduced by her beauty
(without the girl personally seducing him)

Men have the natural tendency to be in lust irrespective of the beauty of the girls

All these are the men's responsibility and problem. Its his issue to sort out and his alone. If he get seduced or lustful and he act on it without consent then it is a criminal offence. Sadly women are scarred for life and no legislating can change that.

-These are the natural tnedencies of boys/men……It’s the creation


(I) If girls wants to reaveal their beauty/sexyness with special costumes, they can do…

- Men would be attracted for sure. Mens who are careful about society and legal actions would not dare to touch her. Some of the others would do and will be prosecuted and punished.

- For this, such guys would be undergoing punishment socially and leagally. He may repent or may not. But his image will be ruined.

- Affected girls can be proud to have taken and achieved legal actions against such guys

- She may or may not feel, for what way she is been affected buy those guys.

What is there to be proud for her? She will be scarred for life, traumatised and need therapy, perhaps for life. All because of what? A man acting/thinking with his wrong head! (pun not intended)


(2) If girls want heself not to be exposed her sexyness and reasonably be presentable (or covered)

- Men may not get much attracted towards her and would not be arosed.

- Men may still get attracted, but his animal instinct would not overrule him

- Its very rare for these girls to be raped by some men…Only psychos, dugg addicts and extraordinarily sexually obsessed guys would attack such girls.



1)Girls can either choose to be prepared as per first category
2)Or Girls can choose to be presentable as per second category


As long as both are happy with their choice and style, there is absolutely nothing wrong….

If guys overrule their tendencies, they can be happy..If they could not controll their naturally tendencies than they would be behind bars.

Basically I have read so many times that rape is not about sex or lust or the lack of control. Its about power and most often its the people we know and who are closest to us that do this. Not some stranger lusting after us in dark alleyways.

Having said that, it wont hurt for us women to take precautions.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Amla,

I agree with you! In 90 percent of child molestation the adult involved is a family

member or family friend or at times a close blood relative.

Power and threat are the keywords here.

We have to be very careful in bringing up the girl children safely.

They look so cute, so innocent and are so trusting and loving even to strangers.

No body is really safe whether it is a 6 months old baby or a sixty year old

lady-according to the news paper reports

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Amala,

My replies in blue..

My replies in black.

I'm not sure we can generalise girls so broadly as you are doing. I speak for me alone. I wouldn't be embarassed if I'm not well groomed and not looking great in front of a group of guys who I don't care about at all. It doesnt matter to me one way or the other what they think of me.

-Yes, exceptions like you do exists…There is almost nothing without exceptions. I have focused on the basic characteristics of male and female species…..I have not pointed out the feelings of a particular person here…Both Male and Female got some basic natural qualities, that I have highlighted here. [FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]All these are the men's responsibility and problem. Its his issue to sort out and his alone. If he get seduced or lustful and he act on it without consent then it is a criminal offence. Sadly women are scarred for life and no legislating can change that.


- Off course it’s a criminal offence..I am not denying it. No one else can deny also. Having done some thing wrong, losing his control on temptations, he will face legal consequences and she will undergo psychological problems. The latter’s sufferings are the most deepest..

Again, by advocating responsibilities on men for their imbalances, girls can only get him legal punishment and social defamation & solace out of it. But ends up undergoing some sort of sufferings herself more than the guy.

What is there to be proud for her? She will be scarred for life, traumatised and need therapy, perhaps for life. All because of what? A man acting/thinking with his wrong head! (pun not intended)


- If a girl is raped, for sure she will be traumatized and would need therapy..And the guy would for sure face the legal consequences… A guy would face legal consequences for the cases of eve teasing and anything of that sort also. And off course he should be taken to task for such acts too. In many cases, a girl was found to be shocked and bemused when some guy, kisses her and do something nasty and runs away…

We can very well blame men for his doing and I have stated the same on my previous message and should be punished too…Can a girl be completely happy by finding people blaming only the guy , when she is undergoing aftermath and trauma, being raped or molested?

In either case, it’s the girls who suffer the most. “Girls being proud”, I have stated only in the context of having satisfaction of getting legal punishment to the guy and finding solace for her sufferings.


Basically I have read so many times that rape is not about sex or lust or the lack of control. Its about power and most often its the people we know and who are closest to us that do this. Not some stranger lusting after us in dark alleyways.


- When we are talking on the impact of girls dressing sense, my post is focusing on general outside public/strangers...Whatever term you give- power or lack of control, the bottom line is, masculine power at last over rules feminine power physically and both face the consequences of it in a different way...And girls are the most sufferers

The cases that you have come to know, is quite common in India too and I know it very well. Here also the own people are doing out of lust and sexual obsession. They are sick with sexually focused brain and don’t distinguish the age and the relationship of the female with him..For him there is nothing called relationships and its purity…All it is about female species and sex…These are the extreme cases and I think we were not discussing on general sex abuses of this sort.

Having said that, it wont hurt for us women to take precautions.

-Here I truly appreciate your sense of self responsibility and precautions. Men should also have the sense of self responsibility and dignity. But if they don’t have, they ruin a girl more than ruining themselves.

Hope, it makes you and all other female members of this forum clear that, I am not gender biased.

 

[C RAVI]

To put it in a nutshell...

If girls want to tease men, they can exhibit their assets and get into trouble.

If girls want to please men, they better cover up and be as safe as is possible!
eace:

Your wisdom speaks volume Smt. Visalakshi ji...

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Amla,

I agree with you! In 90 percent of child molestation the adult involved is a family

member or family friend or at times a close blood relative.

Power and threat are the keywords here.

We have to be very careful in bringing up the girl children safely.

They look so cute, so innocent and are so trusting and loving even to strangers.

No body is really safe whether it is a 6 months old baby or a sixty year old

lady-according to the news paper reports

with best wishes,
V.R.

Absolutely right Smt. Visalakshmi ji....Power and threat are the keywords and key factors and girl children need to be brought up safely from a very young age. As far as child sex abuse is concerned, even little young boys are molested by psychologically imbalanced men.


I also believe that, Power and Threat are the key factors for the lust to complete its course successfully. The ultimate purpose of using the power to over rule and threatening with consequences of something, is to gain sexual satisfaction and lust fulfillment by men who are sexually obsessed and lack dignity. They are in fact a different kind of species and for sure the lowest of all.

 

[Raghy]

Chi.Ravi said -

Men die for the beauty of grils, though he is not handsome

Men get attracted towards the beauty of the girls and natrually get seduced by her beauty
(without the girl personally seducing him)

Men have the natural tendency to be in lust irrespective of the beauty of the girls

-These are the natural tnedencies of boys/men……It’s the creation

Chi.Ravi, Greetings. That is quite a broad brush, you have used to describe about 'men'. In my humble opinion, you may have described about a minority of 'men' in that description. No sir, kindly allow me to record my objections to those comments about men, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

You are 100% right sir!

It is not the dress that matters! It is the person who wears it!

My question is "How can you brand the 'Madisar' as a s--y dress?"

பட்டாம்பூச்சிகள் தொடரட்டும்!
Raji Ram

Sow.Raji Ram,

Greetings. 'Sexy' is a psychological feelings. It applies to individuals in an unique way. Let me show it is psychological....when reading a pornography book, one gets exicited and feels sexy. It is not the paper & the book per se stimulated the body, did it? Madisar involved such stimulations. I can't really go in details to answer your question.....sorry, it won't be a decent post anymore. (I won't send a PM either for the same reason). I can give you a hint though..personally my second sexiest out fit (there is only one person who can stimulate such feelings for me) is full sleeved shirt buttoned up all the way +/- neck tie, business suit, long trousers and formal shoes.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Ravi,
Thank you for your replies.
Unless everyone develops self control and a more responsible attitude towards life and fellow beings in the world, this kind of threats will exist.
'Good' and 'bad' always co exist. If we can not do away with the 'bad',
the least we can do is to protect ourselves from the bad people.
with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Raji Ram]

Respected Raghy Sir,

Thanks for your decent reply! Proves you are veteran....

No more details needed and no more questions about 'that' outfit! :tape:

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[tbs]

hi Raghy sir,
sorry for this long discussion....i just give simple reply to Ramanujan.......adiyenukku onnum theriyathu...

regards
tbs

 

[Meerkat]

Madisar.

hi Raghy sir,
sorry for this long discussion....i just give simple reply to Ramanujan.......adiyenukku onnum theriyathu...

regards
tbs

ok ok. ha ha. ithu modalla ae sollirintha ivlo periya discussion nadanthurkathu MADISAR PATRI.

 

[tbs]

hi Meerkat/ongaludan/R R/ R Ramanujan,
i know u r addicted this tbs.com......here mainly all vetarans above 50 yrs old.....life experiences more ....i agreed with u....i know

delhi based life like in karol bagh/R K puram area....utilise ur maximum time for studies and get a good job in delhi....i know

the difficulty for getting admissions in delhi colleges....becoz i did ph. d from UNIVERSITY OF DELHI....PLZ DONT GET INTO THIS

MAAYA......


regards
tbs

 

[Brahmanyan]

(reply to #49).

dear Mr. Brahmanyan,

Yes Sir! Everything loses its meaning when taken out of context.

It was about the modern girls who dare to bare everything on one hand and about

the women compelled to cover themselves from head to foot, in some countries.

Both the groups seem to run the same risk!

Why??

That was the question!

with warm regards,
V.R.

Dear Mrs. Visalakshi Ramani,

Previously we were living in small groups in villages and towns, and our society laid down certain regulatory guide lines on our lives to follow.This applied to dressing also. Which every one followed. Community took care of their welfare and safety. Punishments for transgression of social regulations were severe and quick. Once a person stepped out of the social regulation he/she would lose the comfort of social cover given to him/her.

I have a group photograph taken on the occasion of My grandfather's 60th birth day (Sashtiapdhapoorthy) in 1931, where in all my relatives are found wearing traditional dresses, all ladies in Madisar and gents in Panche with some in turban also. Similarly all communities followed their traditions. Caste and community distinctions were well defined and strictly observed. Caste and Community of a person was identified by his/her mode of dressing.
Please note that I am not going into the merits or demerits of Caste System. Now Caste system is almost gone out of our social fabric except for the purpose of marriage and Government jobs. The identification of caste in Dress has also lost its utility. Women and men wear that mode of dress which is convenient for them. This has got its benefits and risks also. That is what we see today in towns and cities.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. barhmanyam,

People are free to wear convenient and comfortable dresses... as long as

those do not become obscene and make part of the population feel very

uncomfortable! :bowl:

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[C RAVI]

Chi.Ravi said -



Chi.Ravi, Greetings. That is quite a broad brush, you have used to describe about 'men'. In my humble opinion, you may have described about a minority of 'men' in that description. No sir, kindly allow me to record my objections to those comments about men, please. Thank you.

Cheers!
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]

Sri Raghy ji,

In my post I have neither generalized female tendencies nor male tendencies...I have just listed out some of the basic/natural tendencies of both the genders. I did not realize that some of the members would find it grossly ridiculous. But am happy to find some members here, who all could grasp my inputs.

Exceptions do exists and the perceptions/levels/feeling of lust, sex, arousal, temptations do vary from men to men...

There are men many for whom, sexiness, beauty, attractions etc in women are just something that attracts their attentions to praise the beauty of the God's creation.

I have listed out only those natural tendencies of men which are potent to seduce him and get him into lust and go out of way to harm a girl. I re-iterate here that, by pointing out such natural tendencies of men, I am neither approving their wrong doing nor voicing for their justifications.

Hope, I am clear in my expressions.

If you do have something in objections to record, to those of my listing of men's natural tendencies, please Sir, feel free to share them with us. It would for sure help me to educate myself and I would be grateful to you.

 

[Raji Ram]

hi Meerkat/ongaludan/R R/ R Ramanujan,
i know u r addicted this tbs.com......here mainly all vetarans above 50 yrs old.....life experiences more ....i agreed with u....i know

delhi based life like in karol bagh/R K puram area....utilise ur maximum time for studies and get a good job in delhi....i know

the difficulty for getting admissions in delhi colleges....becoz i did ph. d from UNIVERSITY OF DELHI....PLZ DONT GET INTO THIS

MAAYA......


regards
tbs

True........ it is MAAYA

copy pasting a portion of my recent kavithai which has appeared in my other thread "eNNa alaigaL" # 181, for easy reference.

Those who can't read Tamil Fonts, please request help from your friends.

புதிய மாய வலை!

உலகை ஒரு குடைக்குள் கொண்டுவரும் கணினி,
உலகை ஆட்டுவிக்கும் ஒரு பெரிய சக்தியே இனி!

எந்த விஷயமோ, கிடைக்கும் ஒரு சொடுக்கில்;
அந்த விஷயம் மிகப் புதுமையே, யாவருக்கும்!

-------------------------

வலை போலக் கணினி விரிக்கும் வலைத் தளங்கள்,
வலை போட்டு, விடலைகளை மாட்டிவிடும் களங்கள்.

மதுவும், போதையும் ஒரு சிலரை அடிமைப்படுத்தும்;
இதுவும் அந்த வரிசையில் சேர்ந்து, அடிமையாக்கும்!

நல்லவை தேடி, தம் அறிவை வளர்த்துக்கொண்டு,
அல்லவை ஒதுக்க இளைஞர் அறிந்திட வேண்டும்!

அறியாத இளைஞர் இந்த வலையில் மாட்டாதிருக்கப்
பெரியோர் உதவினால், நன்கு அவர் வாழ்வு இனிக்கும்!

உலகம் உய்ய வேண்டும், ray:
ராஜி ராம்

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

hi Meerkat/ongaludan/R R/ R Ramanujan,


I am amazed that you have been able to identify the one person hiding


under so many nicknames! :fish2:Great job!!

 

[sangom]

Sri Raghy ji,

In my post I have neither generalized female tendencies nor male tendencies...I have just listed out some of the basic/natural tendencies of both the genders. I did not realize that some of the members would find it grossly ridiculous. But am happy to find some members here, who all could grasp my inputs.

Exceptions do exists and the perceptions/levels/feeling of lust, sex, arousal, temptations do vary from men to men...

There are men many for whom, sexiness, beauty, attractions etc in women are just something that attracts their attentions to praise the beauty of the God's creation.

I have listed out only those natural tendencies of men which are potent to seduce him and get him into lust and go out of way to harm a girl. I re-iterate here that, by pointing out such natural tendencies of men, I am neither approving their wrong doing nor voicing for their justifications.

Hope, I am clear in my expressions.

If you do have something in objections to record, to those of my listing of men's natural tendencies, please Sir, feel free to share them with us. It would for sure help me to educate myself and I would be grateful to you.

Shri Ravi,

In my opinion what you wrote were relevant and unexceptionable. I am of the opinion that "lust" or kāmam, is the basic natural instinct and love or காதல் is a superimposed layer. In this context I recollect some discussions in another thread where I said the same thing and asked if love or காதல் has an existence independent of lust, why should not lovers just live as lovers only and desist from marriage, which is the licence for sexual intimacy.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

"I said the same thing and asked if love or காதல் has an existence independent of lust, why should lovers just live as lovers only and desist from marriage, which is the licence for sexual intimacy."

Dear Mr. Sangom,

Should it read "why should NOT lovers live as lovers only...intimacy".

If lovers decide to live as lovers, and are contented with cherishing their pure love

in their hearts, there won't be any more broken hearts, suicides and honor

killings in the world. Am I correct?

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[C RAVI]

[FONT=&quot]Sri Sangom ji,

My response in blue

[/FONT]

Shri Ravi,

In my opinion what you wrote were relevant and unexceptionable. [FONT=&quot]. Thank you Sri Sangom ji...//[/FONT]I am of the opinion that "lust" or kāmam, is the basic natural instinct and love or காதல் is a superimposed layer. Exactly...[FONT=&quot]// [/FONT] In this context I recollect some discussions in another thread where I said the same thing and asked if love or காதல் has an existence independent of lust, why should lovers just live as lovers only and desist from marriage, which is the licence for sexual intimacy. Unfortunately I missed noticing that thread and your post.

I would like to add that...

1) A Lust can be a reason for Love and can ever continue to be a true and truthful Love...When a person Love a particular opposite sex, attracted by her/his beauty and wants to live together ever.

2) A Love can be without Lust....When a person Love a particular opposite sex, attracted by his/her fine qualities, behavior, intelligence etc..etc.,that has nothing to do with person's aesthetic qualities and want to live together ever.

Happily or Ironically there are Lovers who just live as lovers only and still have sexual intimacy. Ironically there are Lovers who could never experience sexual intimacy and continue to love for ever.

Basically, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong or unusual for LOVE & LUST to co-exists between pairs in question. When a heart feels extreme love for the other (as both the kinds of True love, I have listed above), its natural to develop an urge to fulfill sexual intimacy.


காதல் கலந்தகாமம் இயற்கையின் நீதி
ஒழுக்கம் இல்லாவிட்டால் வாழ்வு பாதி

தத்தெடுத்த குழந்தையின் தாயும் தாய் தான்
ஈடிலா அவள் குடுக்கும் அன்பு உண்மை தான்

 

[Meerkat]

hi Meerkat/ongaludan/R R/ R Ramanujan,

I am amazed that you have been able to identify the one person hiding

under so many nicknames! :fish2:Great job!!

One clarification mam, its not ongaludan its ongalanbudan meaning your frnd. and R. Ramanujan is RR, there is no separate RR. Plus you forgot Sarath also.(sarath I created when I was banned earlier due to my own stupidity)
so ongalanbudan=RR(R. Ramanujan)=Sarath=Meerkat(super cool)
Now Sarath is a guest member and RR is banned.
Ongalanbudan I created to say sorry to KRSji and Meerkat(my fav mirugham) to continue in the forum.
Earlier one member advised me for self control but that's out of picture. I just won't do until I get settled career wise and life wise.
(Mam I admire ur sense of humour, Pls keep it up, never change no matter whatever others say)

True........ it is MAAYA

copy pasting a portion of my recent kavithai which has appeared in my other thread "eNNa alaigaL" # 181, for easy reference.

Those who can't read Tamil Fonts, please request help from your friends.

புதிய மாய வலை!

உலகை ஒரு குடைக்குள் கொண்டுவரும் கணினி,
உலகை ஆட்டுவிக்கும் ஒரு பெரிய சக்தியே இனி!

எந்த விஷயமோ, கிடைக்கும் ஒரு சொடுக்கில்;
அந்த விஷயம் மிகப் புதுமையே, யாவருக்கும்!

-------------------------

வலை போலக் கணினி விரிக்கும் வலைத் தளங்கள்,
வலை போட்டு, விடலைகளை மாட்டிவிடும் களங்கள்.

மதுவும், போதையும் ஒரு சிலரை அடிமைப்படுத்தும்;
இதுவும் அந்த வரிசையில் சேர்ந்து, அடிமையாக்கும்!

நல்லவை தேடி, தம் அறிவை வளர்த்துக்கொண்டு,
அல்லவை ஒதுக்க இளைஞர் அறிந்திட வேண்டும்!

அறியாத இளைஞர் இந்த வலையில் மாட்டாதிருக்கப்
பெரியோர் உதவினால், நன்கு அவர் வாழ்வு இனிக்கும்!

உலகம் உய்ய வேண்டும், ray:
ராஜி ராம்

yes mam I have copied it and now I will ask my amma to translate it and tell me the meaning. Thanks Raji Ram ji for your kind advice.