Brahmins and Jews

[prasad1]

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Many Jews and Brahmins were supporters of Adolf Hitler based on their common concept of the “race superiority”.
The Genome Research Journal (May8, 2001) reported that the upper caste Brahmin Hindus have common traits with the Jewish people – such as the caste superiority (racism) and ethnically the great majority of both Brahmins and Jews is rooted in Khazar tribes of Asia.
Jews And Brahmins ? The Genetic Code | Sikh Archives

Mr. Sravna was this on your mind?

The Dalit Voice Editorial said:”The conspirators and killers of MK Gandhi were all Chitpavan hailing from Pune to which BG Talik belonged. It is these ChipavanBrahmins who started India’s first Brahminical terrorist party called the RSS. The discovery of the more deadly Brahaminical terrorist outfit called the Abhinav Bharat, headed by a serving Indian Army Officer, Lt. Col. Purohit, now in jail for many terrorist killings along with his gang, further strengthen our theory. Lt. Col. Purohit has admitted visiting the Zionist Israel and getting its full support – with funds and arms – to kill Muslims.

 

[carvaka]

i really dont know how to help you people...listen to Nara and Sangom...

btw Intelligence is nothing special...it doesnt make one superior over other

 

[prasad1]

Intelligence is special, and it is recognized universally.
It is not by birth caste, it is individuals karma and hard work in this life. An individual's achievement is defiantly due to their work and is recognized by others. A little bit of self recognition is accepted.

 

[biswa]

Jews may be smart, but are they wise? The endless struggle between Israel/Palestine and all the financial chicanery in Wall St seem to indicate otherwise.

I see an opening here, but only if Brahmins are willing to take it. Learning Vedas, Geeta etc do not confer greater intelligence, only greater wisdom, that too to those willing to imbibe it.

 

[biswa]

hi
i agreed...both are basically highly intellegent and favorite to god too....

Proof please.

both are pluralism in worship....i think both some kind of same

Absolutely untrue, Judaism is a monotheistic religion unlike Hinduism.

tribes.....EVEN BOTH ARE MOST HYPOCRATIC COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD.....

Now if this not an atrocious generality, I dont know what is.

 

[prasad1]

Raising Intelligence Looks Problematic
If this hypothesis is correct, then it is problematic for efforts to raise human intelligence. How many of the intelligence raising genetic variants bring undesirable side effects? Some scientists speculate that assortive mating of high IQ people is contributing to a rising incidence of autism and Asperger's Syndrome. As smart people become more likely to breed with other smart people the odds increase that pairs of autosomal recessives or other problematic combinations of intelligence boosting genes will be inherited by offspring.


Has human intelligence been selected for so rapidly in the last couple of thousand years that a large portion of all intelligence boosting mutations have undesirable side effects? When a selective pressure is strong early adaptations will have side effects. Henry Harpending explained in the gnxp.com thread on this subject:
FuturePundit: On The Evolution Of Ashkenazi Jewish Intelligence

 

[prasad1]

In fact, most children with high intelligence are conceived by parents of average intelligence rather than by parents with high IQ scores (Plomin & Petrill, 1997). Children’s genetic ancestry, then, is hardly a surefire predictor of what their own potential is likely to be. Environment also makes an appreciable difference, as we shall now see.


Evidence for Environmental Influences
Numerous sources of evidence converge to indicate that environment has a significant impact on IQ scores. We find some of this evidence in twin studies and adoption studies. Studies of the effects of nutrition, toxic substances, home environment, early intervention, and formal schooling provide additional support for the influence of environment. Also, a steady increase in performance on intelligence tests over the past several decades—known as the Flynn effect—is almost certainly attributable to environmental factors.
Twin studies and adoption studies revisited


Let’s look once again at the IQ correlations for identical twins raised in the same home versus in different homes. The median correlation for twins raised in different homes is .72, whereas that for twins raised in the same home is .86. In other words, twins raised in different homes have less similar IQs than twins raised in the same home. The distinct environments that different families provide do have some influence on intellectual development.


Adoption studies, too, indicate that intelligence is not determined entirely by heredity (Capron & Duyme, 1989; Devlin, Fienberg, Resnick, & Roeder, 1995; Waldman, Weinberg, & Scarr, 1994). For instance, in one study (Scarr & Weinberg, 1976), some children of poor parents (with unknown IQs) were adopted by middle-class parents with IQs averaging 118–121.

Effects of Heredity and Environment on Intelligence Page 3 | Education.com

You might think of intelligence as being the result of four factors (Gottlieb, 1991, 1992). Genetic activity affects neural activity (i.e., the operation of neurons in the brain), which in turn affects behavior, which in turn affects the environment. But influence moves in the opposite direction as well: The environment affects behavior, and these two (through stimulation, nutritional intake, physical activity, etc.) affect neural activity and genetic expression.

 

[prasad1]

Sravnaji,
If you think you are intelligent (why would you write this post?), it may not be due to your gene, but more due to your upbringing and your hard work.

 

[renuka]

Learning Vedas, Geeta etc do not confer greater intelligence, only greater wisdom, that too to those willing to imbibe it.

Dear Biswa,

Is wisdom actually divorced from intelligence?

Intelligence is often measured by paper qualification,output,productivity and performance.

Wisdom needs a great degree of intelligence that has shaped the intellect over years of experiences through trial and error and makes one be able to deduce a given situation.

On a personal basis from personal experience I feel reading Geeta does speed up one's thought process and analytical ability which may eventually increase the IQ and EQ.

 

[Nara]

The very first sentence of the OP, namely, "Brahmins and Jews are two groups that are generally considered to possess high intelligence." reveals the toxic cocktail of ignorance and hubris, the very definition of "Satva" by the Brahminists. Have you ever seen a Jew confidently claiming they and Brahmins are blah, blah, blah? Jews in general cringe at the very suggestion that they are somehow uniformly more intelligent than others, and there is the crucial difference between Brahmins and Jews, let alone the fact their contributions to modern science, philosophy, psychology, politics are like the peaks of himalayas and the contributions of the Brahmins, relative to that of the Jews, with all the advantages the Brahmins enjoyed over centuries, are less than the mole hill I have in my backyard.

I am reminded of the self assured Brahmin chiding the boatman of being ignorant, only to be faced with the reality of the raging river and the total futility of his superior intellect, and the timely utility of the boatman's own intellect so vital for the very survival the Brahmin. The intelligence used to exploit fellow humans, like that exemplified by Brahminism and codified in the supremacist varna ideology, is pure evil.

I rather have simple love untainted by the conniving intellect so characteristic of supremacist Brahmins. Most reform Jews are not like that, they would be horrified to be equated to Brahmins.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

We can talk about anything as long as it is done in an objective way and equally importantly it doesn't unduly hurt others even if the discussion is done in an objective way.

The primary reason I started this thread was to emphasize that too much importance to analytical intelligence is not good. And that seems to be sadly what is happening today But we know brahmins are traditionally holistic thinkers. That is the reason we see so much of the idea of complementarity being used by them. Brahmins prefer to see what forms the whole and only second in importance to that are the details.

I strongly think that this is the type of thinking that we need today. Today's social , political and economic systems will create a million times more evil at least than what was possible in the ancient systems because these are products of cold people who can only think of themselves and not the society as a whole.

My intent was certainly not to assure myself about the superiority of the brahmins but only to argue that only holistic thinking produces products of enduring value and brahmins who traditionally employed such thinking would become globally dominant in the future unless the world wants itself to be destroyed.

Dear Srvana,

Thought process in the human mind starts off from one point and finally we get the greater picture.

That is from analysis to diagnosis.

I do not agree with you when you say the Brahmins(I think you meant Brahmins of the past) had holistic thinking sans analysis.

I would say that each one of the ancients had analytic thinking to be able to come up with various Darshanas and schools of thought.

If they did not have an analytical mind none of us now would even know the concept of Brahman.

Knowledge is like a jig saw puzzle..an analytical mind arranges the pieces to get the holistic picture.

The mind seldom works in reverse direction in most normal individuals.

Best example is this Stanza..analysis leading to diagnosis.

Om
Purnamadah Purnamidam
Purnat Purnamudachyate
Purnasya Purnamadaya
Purnameva Vashishyate

Om.
That is infinite, this is infinite;
From That infinite this infinite comes.
From That infinite, this infinite removed or added;
Infinite remains infinite.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom, Renuka,

I am not saying that analytical intelligence is not necessary but only saying that excessive emphasis on that is bad.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Sangom, Renuka,

I am not saying that analytical intelligence is not necessary but only saying that excessive emphasis on that is bad.

Dear Sravna,

Excessive emphasis on anything is bad..excessive emphasis may eventually lead to:

1)Obsessive Compulsive Disorders
2)Narcissism
3)Delusion of Persecution.

Frankly speaking unless a person has one the three I mentioned above most normal humans like us do not really dwell on the same subject matter or fact for long duration.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I remember reading your earlier post in this thread where you mentioned that people are hated for their intelligence.

I do not get what you meant by that.

Why would anyone want to hate an intelligent person?

Does anyone hate Dr APJ Abdul Kalam??

Everyone loves him for his humble down to earth approach in life.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I remember reading your earlier post in this thread where you mentioned that people are hated for their intelligence.

I do not get what you meant by that.

Why would anyone want to hate an intelligent person?

Does anyone hate Dr APJ Abdul Kalam??

Everyone loves him for his humble down to earth approach in life.

Dear Renuka,

I am talking of people who cannot accept another person's positive traits. This attitude seems to be getting more and more prevalent these days.

 

[biswa]

Well said. But let me illustrate the difference between intelligence and wisdom with the very sloka you eloquently translated.

There are many intelligent people who are great at Mathematics, and can easily derive these equations.

Infinity + Infinity = Infinity
Infinity - Infinity = Infinity

One infinite set can be a super-set of another infinite set.

But the question is how do we apply this to our daily life or even to the cosmos? Is our universe infinite? What then is outside this universe? Are there infinite number of universes? That is where wisdom comes in.

 

[renuka]

Well said. But let me illustrate the difference between intelligence and wisdom with the very sloka you eloquently translated.

There are many intelligent people who are great at Mathematics, and can easily derive these equations.

Infinity + Infinity = Infinity
Infinity - Infinity = Infinity

One infinite set can be a super-set of another infinite set.

But the question is how do we apply this to our daily life or even to the cosmos? Is our universe infinite? What then is outside this universe? Are there infinite number of universes? That is where wisdom comes in.

Dear Biswa,

Wisdom is living in the present and realizing that there are subjects that are beyond the scope of perception and we need to choose what is relevant and beneficial to us just like if death is knocking at our door we might not want to be studying Panini's grammar and not recite Govinda!

Nahi Nahi Rakshatin Dukren Karane!

Intelligence is having knowledge..Wisdom is its practical application.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I am talking of people who cannot accept another person's positive traits. This attitude seems to be getting more and more prevalent these days.

Dear Sravna,

How can anyone know our "positive traits" unless we keep displaying it openly?

 

[biswa]

I agree. There are many who can memorise the Bhagavad Geeta and Vishnu Sahasranama. Surely that requires a level of memory capacity. Then there are people who may be able to understand the original Sanskrit. That requires intellectual capacity as well.

However the present day application is where wisdom comes in. If one does rituals mindlessly or recite the 1008 names without understanding the qualities being attributed to God, one is really missing the big picture. Most of us are not standing on the Kurukshetra battle-field trying to kill our enemies.

Applying the ancient knowledge to the present day is where wisdom is required.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

How can anyone know our "positive traits" unless we keep displaying it openly?

Dear Renuka,

We do not need to tout our intelligence for others to know our intelligence.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

We do not need to tout our intelligence for others to know our intelligence.

Dear Sravna,

It is not easy for people to know our IQ ..many times I have been mistaken to be a dumb person by many people who meet me for the first time even though I feel I am not really all that dumb.

So I wonder how can anyone actually know our intelligence?

 

[zebra16]

Sri Nara,

The very first sentence of the OP, namely, "Brahmins and Jews are two groups that are generally considered to possess high intelligence." reveals the toxic cocktail of ignorance and hubris, the very definition of "Satva" by the Brahminists. Have you ever seen a Jew confidently claiming they and Brahmins are blah, blah, blah? Jews in general cringe at the very suggestion that they are somehow uniformly more intelligent than others, and there is the crucial difference between Brahmins and Jews, let alone the fact their contributions to modern science, philosophy, psychology, politics are like the peaks of himalayas and the contributions of the Brahmins, relative to that of the Jews, with all the advantages the Brahmins enjoyed over centuries, are less than the mole hill I have in my backyard.

The dissimilarities do not end here. The jews do not have to suffer the piles of loads, mostly hubris, dumped on them by the self claimed ex-jews or active non practicing jews.

When jews are sought to be rehabilitated they are not told that their current sufferings are on account of their scripture and such scriptural teachings of the past disentitle them to any relief.

The jews are not told that to be acceptable to the current world they have to treat their scriptures as "vile" and have to "repudiate" the scriptures and their misalignment in the current day scenario is because of injustices done by their ancestors in 712 BCE and as recorded in Torah.

They are also not told that the *discrimination* practiced by African tribes are also to be called as Judaism as another name.

In nutshell, the Jews are appreciated and criticized for their CURRENT DAY PRACTICES and not for AGE OLD TRADITIONS and they are NOT TOLD to atone for the *sins* of their ancestors in stone age.

I rather have simple love untainted by the conniving intellect so characteristic of supremacist Brahmins.

What this means is that you are incapable of extending unconditional love without the recipient adhering to some of the stipulations that you have laid down, although you would spend hours and hours in the forum exhorting others to abhor all prejudices and biases and spread the message of universal love. If anyone is expecting *universal love* as defined by the above definition, he has to sign a declaration or swear an affidavit to this effect and also perhaps has to show for the next five generations that his progeny would conform to the stipulations. In addition calling, naming and shaming their ancestors to be practitioners of "vile" ways in the past may perhaps fast track his plea.

Life is too short for most and they would rather do better without pining for this special category of *universal love*

Most reform Jews are not like that, they would be horrified to be equated to Brahmins.

But then most jews do not spend their spare time visiting the forums of the traditional jews and to have the horrors, mostly imagined, to be narrated again and again.

Regards

 

[renuka]

I agree. There are many who can memorise the Bhagavad Geeta and Vishnu Sahasranama. Surely that requires a level of memory capacity. Then there are people who may be able to understand the original Sanskrit. That requires intellectual capacity as well.

However the present day application is where wisdom comes in. If one does rituals mindlessly or recite the 1008 names without understanding the qualities being attributed to God, one is really missing the big picture. Most of us are not standing on the Kurukshetra battle-field trying to kill our enemies.

Applying the ancient knowledge to the present day is where wisdom is required.

Well said!

I totally agree..you see for example I can sing from memory this shloka below and even understand it in Sanskrit but when I am faced with a real life situation where I might need to apply this..I might just fail miserably..so you are right..wisdom is sometimes beyond the reach of many of us.

Sukh dukhe same krutava labh alabhou jaya ajayaou,

(Treating pleasure and pain, gain and loss, victory and defeat alike

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

It is not easy for people to know our IQ ..many times I have been mistaken to be a dumb person by many people who meet me for the first time even though I feel I am not really all that dumb.

So I wonder how can anyone actually know our intelligence?

Dear Renuka,

I for sure know you are intelligent. Of course not everybody agrees on one thing. But figuring out whether some one is intelligent or is not that difficult though you may not be very accurate in your assessment.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I for sure know you are intelligent. Of course not everybody agrees on one thing. But figuring out whether some one is intelligent or is not that difficult though you may not be very accurate in your assessment.

Dear Sravna,

Only those who know us or work with us or have constant interaction with us directly or online can make out our intelligence.

So some amount of contact over a period of time needs to be there to assess a persons intelligence.

So now coming back to your question..that some people are hated for their intelligence..the people who hate them have to be those who are well known to them isn't it?

So do you think there could be other factors besides intelligence or positive traits that might be pissing off the other person?

I would say it is more of a personality clash of two individuals and not really a hatred for the positive traits or intelligence of a person.