Brahmins and Jews

[Anand Manohar]

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I hate to sermonize.

But I would request everybody to read " O Jerusalem " - Larry Collins & La Pierre before we
embark on any sensible discussion on Jews / Judaism.

Incidentally, Larry Collins & La Pierre are the Nobel Laureates whose works also
includes " Freedom at Midnight ".

I think it is an exercise in futility for one to be harping on a topic about which one has very
little 'grip' / 'understanding' on.

Yay Yem

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Only those who know us or work with us or have constant interaction with us directly or online can make out our intelligence.

So some amount of contact over a period of time needs to be there to assess a persons intelligence.

So now coming back to your question..that some people are hated for their intelligence..the people who hate them have to be those who are well known to them isn't it?

So do you think there could be other factors besides intelligence or positive traits that might be pissing off the other person?

I would say it is more of a personality clash of two individuals and not really a hatred for the positive traits or intelligence of a person.

Could be Renuka but I am only saying there are people who just cannot accept the positive traits of others.

 

[vgane]

I hate to sermonize.

But I would request everybody to read " O Jerusalem " - Larry Collins & La Pierre before we
embark on any sensible discussion on Jews / Judaism.

Incidentally, Larry Collins & La Pierre are the Nobel Laureates whose works also
includes " Freedom at Midnight ".

I think it is an exercise in futility for one to be harping on a topic about which one has very
little 'grip' / 'understanding' on.

Yay Yem

I concur with the above...We should not comment upon a community & their religion about whom little is known to our group...Most of the comments about the community (Jews) are hear say or book say with no practical exposure.

 

[renuka]

Could be Renuka but I am only saying there are people who just cannot accept the positive traits of others.

Dear Sravna,

Here again desire comes into the picture.

A person who desires to be what he is not is usually envious of others.

Now coming to positive traits...in India I happened to meet many people who had come for a Sanskrit camp.

They seemed to be soft spoken,very traditional,strict and religious types.

No doubt I felt that those are positive traits and admired them for it but I did not desire those traits cos I can be the total opposite and I am happy the way I am.

So you see Sravna...not everyone desires positive traits.

Desire is the root of all evil.

 

[prasad1]

Is intelligence inherited?
When it comes to the question if intelligence is inherited there can be only one answer: No! Just because the parents of a child are intelligent does not mean that their child will be as intelligent as they are. In fact: our genes define only the framework of our intelligence, which means that our genes are not responsible on how intelligent we become as they only define the maximum of intelligence we could achieve. Scientific research by the British psychologist Dr. Burton (amongst others) with identical twins which were separated at birth has shown that about 60% of our intelligence depends on genetic factors (important: these genetic factors only set the framework) and 40% depend on environmental factors.


Does our environment influence intelligence?
Absolutely! As already mentioned our genes set the framework of the highest level of intelligence that we can reach, but it depends on the environment we grow up if we can come close to the maximum or only use a slight percentage of our inherited intelligence.


Now that we have clarified this there is simply no space for excuses and limited believes such as “I wasn’t born intelligent” or “My parents weren’t that intelligent as well” as it depends on ourselves if we make use of the potential we have inherited or not. Intelligence can be trained even when we have already become adults and even more positive: we can become more intelligent as well.

 

[prasad1]

When it comes to personal development I have noticed that people often accept limiting believes regarding their intelligence, such as “I´m just not smart enough to be good in school/work!” and “I’ve always been stupid. This will not change, I’m simply not gifted with intelligence!”. What a fatal point of view! But when it comes to the counter question “If you assume you must have been burn dump do you really think that great geniuses like Einstein and da Vinci were born highly intelligent, which allowed them to present their theories and inventions in childhood?” Certainly not! In fact none of us was born with a huge intelligence quotient (IQ) just as none of us is born stupid or with low a decree of intelligence.
Intelligence - Inherited, Environmental or Acquired? | Personal Development

 

[kunjuppu]

I hate to sermonize.

But I would request everybody to read " O Jerusalem " - Larry Collins & La Pierre before we
embark on any sensible discussion on Jews / Judaism.

Incidentally, Larry Collins & La Pierre are the Nobel Laureates whose works also
includes " Freedom at Midnight ".

I think it is an exercise in futility for one to be harping on a topic about which one has very
little 'grip' / 'understanding' on.

Yay Yem

Larry Collins and Dominc LaPierre - Nobel laureates? which year? which Nobel?

 

[kunjuppu]

But then most jews do not spend their spare time visiting the forums of the traditional jews and to have the horrors, mostly imagined, to be narrated again and again.

Regards

i dont think this is true. if at all anything, the acrimony between reformed and orthodox is worse than the thenkalai/vadakalai feud.

there is a significant number of jews, i believe, who would give anything to get peace in west asia. and do not identify themselves with the policies of israel, especially the new settlements and treatment of palestinians.

now with syria in the picture, the strange bedfellows of israel, usa, reactionary saudi, and al qaeda..all ganging up against assad and russia.

china, skillfully and masterfully, playing off one against the other, and hoping to reap the spoils. the chinese are the one to watch. they have not made one missstep in their foreign policy since deng xao ping.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Here again desire comes into the picture.

A person who desires to be what he is not is usually envious of others.

Now coming to positive traits...in India I happened to meet many people who had come for a Sanskrit camp.

They seemed to be soft spoken,very traditional,strict and religious types.

No doubt I felt that those are positive traits and admired them for it but I did not desire those traits cos I can be the total opposite and I am happy the way I am.

So you see Sravna...not everyone desires positive traits.

Desire is the root of all evil.

Yes Renuka desire is indeed the root of all evil. But we are talking about intelligence and it is something that everyone desires, right?

 

[Nara]

..... The jews do not have to suffer the piles of loads, mostly hubris, dumped on them by the self claimed ex-jews or active non practicing jews.

Oh dear Narayan, I can always count on you ..... do you really think Jews got it all cushy? They carried the blood libel for almost two thousand years, and still do. In European cities they were corralled into ghettos and imposed strict rules as to what they can do for a living, what they can own, when they can go out, etc., etc. Take a look at the writings of the great reformer Martin Luther to get an idea of the level of hatred they had to endure for generations upon generations. In this respect, the Dalits of India have more in common with the Jews than the haughty Brahmins for heaven sake.

All these were mere juju bee compared to the slaughter that awaited them in the middle twentieth century.

So, please, stop with this whining.

But then most jews do not spend their spare time visiting the forums of the traditional jews and to have the horrors, mostly imagined, to be narrated again and again.

You seem to have special taste for what I write here, it seems you just can't have enough of it. If you so despise my narration, again and again, why not just ignore me, you can even put me in your "don't show" list and I will be invisible to you. I strongly recommend this because you see, I am not going anywhere. Every time you Brahminists post some supremacist crap, which happens with almost predictable regularity, I will express my opinion. If you guys stop, then you will hear from me no more about everything you whine about.

Best regards ....

 

[renuka]

Yes Renuka desire is indeed the root of all evil. But we are talking about intelligence and it is something that everyone desires, right?

Dear Sravna,

I do not think that everyone desires intelligence.

It depends what a person wants.

Some might desire beauty,youth and fame too.

As far as I know these days many people desire the fountain of youth.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I do not think that everyone desires intelligence.

It depends what a person wants.

Some might desire beauty,youth and fame too.

As far as I know these days many people desire the fountain of youth.

Dear Renuka,

There are many people who are proud about their intelligence. They may indeed be intelligent but the problem is their pride makes them refuse to accept other people's intelligence.

I would just say my own thoughts on wisdom. Wisdom is your thinking capability as a totality whereas intelligence is just one part of it. If you are wise you are intelligent but may not be vice versa. The ability to create a thinking machine is intelligence but the ability to not let it destroy you also requires wisdom.

A wise man is not worried about another's intelligence because he doesn't feel threatened as he has enough offence which is his intelligence and in addition the defence due to his wisdom

 

[tks]

As someone who has very close friends from Jewish faith my reaction to the OP is that it is meaningless.

Some of the reactions in the thread also fall into the same category of nonsense.

There is no need to classify people in any manner or compare & contrast them.

Hindus (focus is not on Brahmins) and Jewish faith do not support conversion. In that sense they are the two major religions of today that can be termed gentle.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Kunjuppu

Ref your Post # 57.

My mistake in my post # 51. - I actually meant to write it as " Nobel Laureate Nominees "
Somehow, one word got missed-out thereby conveying a wrong meaning.

Any inconvenience caused by this 'misinformation' is regretted.

Thanks for pointing out.

Sorry again.

Yay Yem

 

[zebra16]

i
there is a significant number of jews, i believe, who would give anything to get peace in west asia. and do not identify themselves with the policies of israel, especially the new settlements and treatment of palestinians.

Most of the times my thoughts do not resonate with your postings, but this one is an exception.

Yes indeed there is a substantial Jewish population that would prefer to have and live in peace content with what they have rather than go after the new settlements.

But come to think of it, same is the case with most communities at any given point of time and should have been the same case with brahmins too in the past. So I find it rather amusing that some people go on riling against brahmins and manu smrithi of 2 century BCE or CE (depending upon the historian you choose to believe).

Please try to remember the Shree Suktam which you appear to have chanted once upon a time going by the posts you have made here. Try to recall the daily prayer to Shree for grant of horses and villages.

If there is any recorded evidence of even a horse, let alone a village, by the Brahmins in the itihAsa-purANam please let me know..

 

[zebra16]

Sri Nara,

Oh dear Narayan, I can always count on you ..... do you really think Jews got it all cushy? They carried the blood libel for almost two thousand years, and still do. In European cities they were corralled into ghettos and imposed strict rules as to what they can do for a living, what they can own, when they can go out, etc., etc. Take a look at the writings of the great reformer Martin Luther to get an idea of the level of hatred they had to endure for generations upon generations. In this respect, the Dalits of India have more in common with the Jews than the haughty Brahmins for heaven sake.

All these were mere juju bee compared to the slaughter that awaited them in the middle twentieth century.

Your silence and lack of response to Jews not being brandished with their religious scriptures for their failures and *conditional love* masquerading as *universal love* are revealing.

I will try to read more about Jews.

So, please, stop with this whining.

I let this comment pass. I am sure you also realise that it didnt add any value to what you had to say.

You seem to have special taste for what I write here, it seems you just can't have enough of it. If you so despise my narration, again and again, why not just ignore me, you can even put me in your "don't show" list and I will be invisible to you. I strongly recommend this because you see, I am not going anywhere.

Thank you for making it known to me all the options I can exercise to avoid certain posts or certain posters. Although it appears to be far from what you desire, this post does give an impression that you may at times wish insulation of contrasting view points to your posts.

Every time you Brahminists post some supremacist crap, which happens with almost predictable regularity, I will express my opinion.

And every time I find your post is a hyped up crap in response to suggested crap, be sure you would find me responding to it.

If you guys stop, then you will hear from me no more about everything you whine about.

I do not foresee either of the two things happening.

With best regards, as always !!

 

[sarang]

BBs can only croak as the frogs do after a sharp shower; some get swallowed by snakes, some find mates, some become dormant or die by exhaustion. The brahmin tribe too knows their strengths and weaknesses, have always adapted to the political and sometimes hostile environments in the past without compromising on their values, traditions and way of life and will continue to do so.

Sri Nara,

Your silence and lack of response to Jews not being brandished with their religious scriptures for their failures and *conditional love* masquerading as *universal love* are revealing.

I will try to read more about Jews.



I let this comment pass. I am sure you also realise that it didnt add any value to what you had to say.



Thank you for making it known to me all the options I can exercise to avoid certain posts or certain posters. Although it appears to be far from what you desire, this post does give an impression that you may at times wish insulation of contrasting view points to your posts.



And every time I find your post is a hyped up crap in response to suggested crap, sure you would find me responding to it.



I do not foresee either of the two things happening.

With best regards, as always !!

 

[Nara]

.....Your silence and lack of response to Jews not being brandished with their religious scriptures for their failures and *conditional love* masquerading as *universal love* are revealing.

Dear Narayan, I have never shied away responding to rational and logical arguments. The comments you are referring to were off base, made up, and a side show. My point was about the assumed intelligence of you Brahmins, which in my opinion is often conniving. In this context I expressed my preference to "simple love untainted by the conniving intellect so characteristic of supremacist Brahmins." Your tirade against this was completely devoid of any logic and therefore is undeserving of a response. If this reveals anything to you so be it.

And every time I find your post is a hyped up crap in response to suggested crap, be sure you would find me responding to it.

That will be the day. I have never seen you making substantive posts, always taking pot shots. Even in this present case your comments have nothing to do with the subject matter.

I do not foresee either of the two things happening.

Narayan, the point is, I am not one to come in guns blazing with put downs of Brahmins and Brahminism. You won't hear a peep from me if these Brahmins stick to talking about tharpanam, sevvay dosham, etc. I express my opinion only when some of these Brahminists make supremacist statements. You never say anything about the Brahminist crap that is put out here such as Brahmin gene, guna-varna, etc., etc. But you are ever on the ready to snipe at me on tangential things. If that gives you pleasure I will call it even.

regards ...

 

[Nara]

Highlight in the original:

BBs can only croak as the frogs do after a sharp shower; some get swallowed by snakes, some find mates, some become dormant or die by exhaustion. The brahmin tribe too knows their strengths and weaknesses, have always adapted to the political and sometimes hostile environments in the past without compromising on their values, traditions and way of life and will continue to do so.

My dear brother sarang, your highlighted part above must be a joke. The one thing we can be sure of Brahmins is that not only will they compromise their values and traditional way of life to suite the environment -- hostile or not --, they will justify it in one way or another. Look around and you will see this happening from the Brahminical Matams that are pinnacle of orthodoxy, to the mundane supremacist Brahmins who follow not an iota of Brahminical tradition but would proudly tout the superior intellect of the Brahmin gene.

with brotherly love to my dear sarang ....

 

[Vaagmi]

The one thing we can be sure of Brahmins is that not only will they compromise their values and traditional way of life to suite the environment -- hostile or not --, they will justify it in one way or another. Look around and you will see this happening from the Brahminical Matams that are pinnacle of orthodoxy, to the mundane supremacist Brahmins who follow not an iota of Brahminical tradition but would proudly tout the superior intellect of the Brahmin gene.

1. It would be useful and great if the member reveals which is the value that has been compromised by brahmins.

2. There is no commitment to the traditional way of life stipulated for brahmins. You are not expected to go riding on horseback everyday to your office while everyone else speeds past you in their Hondas, Suzukis and Hyundais.

3. What is the brahminical tradition spoken about here which is not followed by the so called "supremacist brahmin".

Answer please - shorn of prejudices which are junk. If the member chooses not to answer I have no complaints. Others can do a bit of interpretation and give answers.Thanks.

 

[palindrome]

Most of the times my thoughts do not resonate with your postings, but this one is an exception.

Yes indeed there is a substantial Jewish population that would prefer to have and live in peace content with what they have rather than go after the new settlements.

But come to think of it, same is the case with most communities at any given point of time and should have been the same case with brahmins too in the past. So I find it rather amusing that some people go on riling against brahmins and manu smrithi of 2 century BCE or CE (depending upon the historian you choose to believe).

Please try to remember the Shree Suktam which you appear to have chanted once upon a time going by the posts you have made here. Try to recall the daily prayer to Shree for grant of horses and villages.

If there is any recorded evidence of even a horse, let alone a village, by the Brahmins in the itihAsa-purANam please let me know..

You can choose to ignore this post if you want....

Am just curious to know why you think "brahmins" of the ancient world were your ancestors? And which type of people do you think were your ancestors? warriors like the sunga dynasty creed? traders like the ayyavole type? celibate saints like what kaundinya supposedly was? non-celibate married saints? what do you feel your ancestors were doing (?) -- well you see, based on the veda-shakha you adhere to, you may (also) be able to describe the culture of those who you think were your ancestors...so just curious to hear from you.

Btw, as for gifts of villages, you need to look into brahmadeyams, devadanams, and such like....maybe this wud help.

 

[palindrome]

For all this comparison, i think its more appropriate to compare dalits with jews. Two simple comparisons:

1) Jews were slaves until moses freed them from it. Dalits were slaves until a secular democracy happened.

2) Jews were sidelined and harassed bcoz they refused to accepted the gods of emerging religions (xtianity and islam) which became dominant. Dalits were sidelined, made untouchable slaves, harassed with low base treatment, and one of the reasons why they were treated so is because of their faith. Dalits were heredity buddhists, jains and followers of gods (tribal and theyyams in such case) which were not part of the emerging religion ie., these were concepts / deities which were not part of or acceptable (even being inimical and detrimental) to the brahmanical pantheon.

 

[Vaagmi]

which were not part of the emerging religion ie., these were concepts / deities which were not part of or acceptable (even being inimical and detrimental) to the brahmanical pantheon.

Yeah!! it has to be called only "brahmanical" pantheon, carefully choosing the word brahmanical. They were not Hindu pantheon. The purpose is well understood. We can start another glorious war of words about brahmins, the atrocities they committed through millennia, brahminism as different from brahmins, castes, varna, supremacist brahmins etc etc., People here have a special gene in them which gets triggered on often to provoke others into a brawl. Great going indeed. All the best.

 

[renuka]

For all this comparison, i think its more appropriate to compare dalits with jews. Two simple comparisons:

1) Jews were slaves until moses freed them from it. Dalits were slaves until a secular democracy happened.

2) Jews were sidelined and harassed bcoz they refused to accepted the gods of emerging religions (xtianity and islam) which became dominant. Dalits were sidelined, made untouchable slaves, harassed with low base treatment, and one of the reasons why they were treated so is because of their faith. Dalits were heredity buddhists, jains and followers of gods (tribal and theyyams in such case) which were not part of the emerging religion ie., these were concepts / deities which were not part of or acceptable (even being inimical and detrimental) to the brahmanical pantheon.

Dear Palindrome,

I clicked Like for this post of yours but just one word was not to my liking.

Brahminical Pantheon.

May be Hindu Pantheon would be a better option..cos other wise this post of yours is going to "invite" trouble from some.

 

[renuka]

etc etc., People here have a special gene in them which gets triggered on often to provoke others into a brawl.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

It takes Two to Tango!