Comparing intercaste marriages (TB vs Other Brahmins)

[Vedant Kavaipatti]

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But what about Intermarriage with Caucasian white races?
They are mostly light eyed and very good looking, taller, better muscle mass and very intelligent too..the overall gene pool might improve.

A lot of girls do marry white men when they work in USA.

I don't deny many Caucasians are good looking and intelligent. But it's not only genome aspect , it's also about preservation of culture too .

Brahmins are known historically for being priests, scholars and teachers... They were the ones who studied the Vedas and other texts nad performed the rituals.

Many of this has been passed down to modern day such as Sandyavandam and vegetarianism

If you marry a Caucasian, most likely that culture will not be passed down to the child... My distant relative did a Caucasian marriage.. Child is being raised as a Christian..

At the end of the day it is your choice to do an IC marriage or not. But I just wished more people realize the beauty of our community, why our culture should be preserved and you should mostly try to marry another Brahmin

 

[Vedant Kavaipatti]

your comments expose ugliness in your thinking and thought process. May god help you.

Why ? I said there is no superiority. I think all humans are equal. But there are certain facts, Brahmins have sharper facial features on average and they are hte most successful in India, despite being persecuted by anti Brahmin movements.

 

[sravna]

Claiming superiority whether based on caste or race will be ones undoing. Brahmins do feel superior about their birth and others hate them exactly for that. That definitely has to be set right. But the way it is attempted to set right is not the right way. It reeks of revenge than a rational and a reasonable way of doing it. Always remember one wrong cannot be set right by another wrong. I will endorse any fair attempt in this regard.

But having said that why not make the white race see the same reason and offer them advice. Nobody is interested in doing it. On the contrary there are all sorts of jalras that indeed ape and worship them. Shameless I would say.

If you want to be reasonable adhere to reason strictly. Or if you want to show emotions don't mix it with reason. Do one thing consistently. But personally i would err on the side of reason.

 

[silverspoon]

The main reason for TB community waning in numbers is the one child policy followed by the majority of married families. Mathematically, the decrease is an exponential one with the population halving every average life time (70 years). If childless families, single unmarried men who are tens of thousands today and intercaste marriages are taken into account, the halving of population takes place even in 50 years or less. There are no reliable statistics on the TB population except the often quoted 3%. With all the interstate and international exodus taken into account, the actual figure might be even lower. Among the diaspora settled in West fertility rate is not higher either and outmarriage is even worse. These issues get compounded in every subsequent generation to make things even worse. From looking at communities that once faced extinction but somehow survived and thrived, Mormons and Australian aborigines, they averted the almost certain disappearance by isolating themselves in a remote geographical location either volunteerily or by state policy. For the TB in India, it means to give up urban life and retreat to certain rural locations where they pledge to live their whole life as a community. Mormons, though initially very small in numbers, increased their flock through having big extended families (5 to 6 on average). Isolation comes with its own costs such as not being able to participate in the society, politics and economy at large and enjoy dividends in form of material wealth and social standing. Is TB willing and capable of that? Large tracts of land in millions of acres can be bought in rural parts of India with financial contributions of big business families and wealthy people in the diaspora but the willingness to relocate aspect remains unclear. Even if 25% of TB community relocate and live life purely according to the Vedas in a self sustaining way through small scale agriculture without material aspiration focussing on family and community, fading into oblivion can be averted. This requires a lot of collective thinking and positioning common goals before individual aspirations. Activism at grassroot level is also a necessity to create awareness of existential issues especially among the younger generation.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I'm a long timer lurker and never posted here.I'm from a karnataka brahmin family and I've few of TB friends. One thing I've observed is Intercaste marriages among TB is very high compared to other brahmins.For example in karnataka there are 4 major brahmin communities.I've seen personally that we can put maximum percentage of intercaste marriages are between 10 to 15%.

Girls do marry out more often than men , but still their percentage is quite low(Women perhaps marry out 15% , Men perhaps marry out 10%). In my family or extended family there isn't a single intercaste marriage.But I do know few women and men in my community who had inter caste marriages.In fact compared to 2000s and 2010s , percentage of intercaste marriages is becoming stable or lower.I've attended at least 40 marriages in 2024.Out of them 39 were from within a caste.Other one is married to lingayat community who are fellow vegetarians and have similar culture.

But things are starkly different among TB friends , where too many men and women married out. In fact among TB friends there are very few children born of both TB houses.In US I've seen too many TB women married whites, blacks, chinese , hell lot of them are atheists/agnostics or nonreligious.I was really surprised how many of them are ultra progressive and woke left.

Whenever family functions happen in my family , we are glad to meet people , who speak the same language , have the similar customs, similar thinking .But I've seen among TBs too many different types of people meet in their family functions and uniqueness is pretty much lost.

I've seen similar tendencies among Telugu Brahmins, where inter caste marriages are pretty less.When I visited north indian states ,I've observed that brahmin intercaste marriages are still within 10 to 15% threshold.

My question is why only the TB community is affected so badly ? Why not other brahmins? Basically brainwashing by dravidian parties has an effect in destroying the TB community?

I feel that in the future , when dravidianism dies , one has to import brahmins from north india just like it has been done multiple times before.

It is not Dravidian parties. We conveniently put the blame on others.

The brahmin parents generally are not really interested to carry forward the customs. They concentrate mainly on education of their children and employment. The parents are not serious as in the case of Muslims. Added to this brahmins lack fighting spirit. Educated girls are in all castes but majority of them maintain their identity. There is no case study to know the reason.

Recently a famous Carnatic Music vocalist's daughter married a black. How this could have happened?

The community fails to educate the young properly. There is no point in blaming others.

Militant attitude is need of the hour.

Can anyone sacrifice for community's sake? It is rather doubtful.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

LOL, one group here is crying that IC marriages are happening, other group is crying that such, marriages should not stopped, I'm just giving rational understanding and solution to prevent the community from going extinct,
Either restrict women education, which is not feasible and I don't think is viable either or encourage boys to chase girls i.e parents must encourage sons to chase girls prefarbly of the same community, they should declare that they won't do any AM and it's the boys responsibility to find a partner within the caste, girls can't be controlled these days by parents esp once they go to college and stuff, so boys must be encouraged to chase girls

Instead of chasing, the boys may be asked to go in for NB girls. Marrying NB girls should be encouraged to balance the loss, and the community can create new type of boys with different attitude.

 

[sravna]

Settling in rural areas is not the solution. Rather the overall change in attitude of the nation to a more balanced one though extremely challenging needs to be the objective. The TBs with their gift for creativity can spearhead this task and achieve multiple objectives and not just their resurgence.

Any one care to talk, though in a different thread about what India should be and how it can stand out from the crowd of nations that seem to be pervaded with materialism and their nasty implications and how people are caught in a vicious cycle because of that?

 

[renuka]

I am not againsts same caste marriage or intercaste marriage...but honestly does anyone actually identify that strongly with the physical body?

I hope to shed my attachments to the physical body some day and work towards moksha..it takes a lot of effort to go beyond the body.
Isnt anyone trying to work in that direction?

 

[sravna]

I am not againsts same caste marriage or intercaste marriage...but honestly does anyone actually identify that strongly with the physical body?

I hope to shed my attachments to the physical body some day and work towards moksha..it takes a lot of effort to go beyond the body.
Isnt anyone trying to work in that direction?

Dear Renuka,

As long as you are in a dual reality you can't ignore physicality. Diversity is by God's design but for us to tend mentally towards unity. Unless diversity is there learning is not possible.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

As long as you are in a dual reality you can't ignore physicality. Diversity is by God's design but for us to tend mentally towards unity. Unless diversity is there learning is not possible.

When I wake up in the morning..i dont really identify with anything much.
Just live..not thinking to hard as who am I or what species I am or what gender I am.

Seriously Sravna, do you identify strongly with being anything?

 

[sravna]

That's the reason separation of people was through gunas which is a characteristic of the mind and not according to physical features. You learn through various experiences and achieve perfect balance in gunas. If the gunas get mixed up then the consequences may be unpredictable.

 

[sravna]

When I wake up in the morning..i dont really identify with anything much.
Just live..not thinking to hard as who am I or what species I am or what gender I am.

Seriously Sravna, do you identify strongly with being anything?

No not really Renuka . I have reached a stage where i am equally embracing of all. I don't have any ill will towards any individual or any group but justified anger against adharmic.

 

[renuka]

No not really Renuka . I have reached a stage where i am equally embracing of all. I don't have any ill will towards any individual or any group but justified anger against adharmic.

Anger isnt justified.
If one faces Adharma, one should use Viveka to counter it.

Bhagavad Gita 2.63: Anger leads to clouding of judgment, which results in bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, the intellect gets destroyed; and when the intellect is destroyed, one is ruined

 

[prasad1]

To change this, the government extends financial incentives to inter-caste couples, to help them settle down in the initial years of their marriage. Under the Dr. Ambedkar Scheme for Social Integration through Inter-Caste Marriages, the Union Ministry for Social Justice and Empowerment provides ₹2.50 lakh per marriage.

It hopes the scheme will encourage more inter-caste marriages and help reduce caste prejudices in India.

Rs 50K to Rs 5 Lakh: Here's How Much States Incentivise Inter-Caste Marriage

Rajasthan has the highest cash incentive!

thebetterindia.com

 

[a-TB]

Why ? I said there is no superiority. I think all humans are equal. But there are certain facts, Brahmins have sharper facial features on average and they are hte most successful in India, despite being persecuted by anti Brahmin movements.

Who cares what features that someone possess. Sharper features is your imagination in terms of what constitutes sharp. Even so, why should anyone care? The body is constantly disintegrating to end up in ashes or destroyed somehow. People's faces evolve Why this focus on looks when it is totally dependent on the person looking. There are no absolutes in perception. Your raga and dvesha plays into how you perceive others.

Someone born and raised in China will not appreciate non-oriental features.

Some who are white skinned think they are superior but even the momentary beauty is only in the eye of the beholder and white skin does not make one beautiful for all human beings. That is why racists are ignorant and never win. Racism is a stain on the western society.

TBs are racists too. Explains why chemical products that are harmful to skin like 'fair and lovely' are sold so much .

You say a platitudes or cliche that there is no superiority but say all kinds of attributes that you come across as being superior to you. Mostly they are base thinking and hence ugly.

This topic here is inter-caste marriages. No person should be for marriage within caste or for inter-caste marriages. Both positions reflect a certain narrowness of mind like frog in a well ( You can read Swami Vivekananda;s depiction of this story 100 plus years ago at Chicago). Besides these cannot be stopped or changed except in imagination

Let us say you are speaking for a caste called Brahmins. What makes you one? Are you living the definition of Brahmana in terms of Guna as described in Gita. Based on your writing you are not exposed to any of those in any depth to make a difference.

Have you heard of story of Ashtavakra Gita He had the most distorted figure and a story is that he entered Janaka's kingdom. All ministers started laughing at the distorted frame of Ashtavakra. But he started laughing at them. He was asked why

He replied that King is surrounded by leather and hyde merchants pretending to be vidwans. That they are so shallow that they can only focus on the appearance of a body. In a way he was calling out the shallow and ugly mind of the so called Vidwans in the darbar.

The thinking of body features and making judgments is shallow and from a Guna point of view is delusional and hence Tamasic. When Tamas is predominant in a person that makes for shudra varna.

Quoting you earlier in one of the post: "Brahmins are known historically for being priests, scholars and teachers... They were the ones who studied the Vedas and other texts nad performed the rituals."

OK - have you dedicated your life to studying vedas and upanishads? Do you know that less than 5% of mantras in most rituals recited by competent sastrigal is from Vedas? Rituals are mostly for Kamya Karmas. It is a baby step to know the truth of life. Have you devoted time to study the scriptures with Sankara Bhashya. From this metric you cannot help any community

You wrote " Non Brahmins are less attractive and less intelligent. Why should one pollute his bloodline genes? This is why intercast marriages are wrong."

What monstrosity of ignorance. The English language you use here is not developed by Brahmin caste. This forum implementation was not conceived by Brahmins The hosting site supported by people are not Brahmins.

Every item that touches your life, from your phone to computer , is not there because of contributions of Brahmin caste for most part.

Also the above quoted statement is an expression of ignorant superiority.

Hypocrisy is the worst in any discussion. At least if you say you feel superior then that can be responded to .

I wanted to give you examples why the thinking you have shown here represent ugliness.

If you want to help others in whatever community you think you belong, help yourselves first by become educated in our knowledge scriptures.

 

[a-TB]

I do understand the harmful actions of the rowdy government in Tamil Nadu. Those are greedy and vicious and they make the Brahmin caste a punching bag for political purposes. Their downfall will come but it is all Gods play.

Annamalai is not a Brahmin I think and he seem to be a level headed person. India's PM is brilliant and has taken India to great height in the past 10 plus years. He is not a Brahmin.

Let us be Brahmin first in terms of Gunas and earn the right to that name. The society will be taken care of by doing our dharma to learn. Open mindedness is key.

 

[Vedant Kavaipatti]

Who cares what features that someone possess. Sharper features is your imagination in terms of what constitutes sharp. Even so, why should anyone care? The body is constantly disintegrating to end up in ashes or destroyed somehow. People's faces evolve Why this focus on looks when it is totally dependent on the person looking. There are no absolutes in perception. Your raga and dvesha plays into how you perceive others.

Someone born and raised in China will not appreciate non-oriental features.

Some who are white skinned think they are superior but even the momentary beauty is only in the eye of the beholder and white skin does not make one beautiful for all human beings. That is why racists are ignorant and never win. Racism is a stain on the western society.

TBs are racists too. Explains why chemical products that are harmful to skin like 'fair and lovely' are sold so much .

You say a platitudes or cliche that there is no superiority but say all kinds of attributes that you come across as being superior to you. Mostly they are base thinking and hence ugly.

This topic here is inter-caste marriages. No person should be for marriage within caste or for inter-caste marriages. Both positions reflect a certain narrowness of mind like frog in a well ( You can read Swami Vivekananda;s depiction of this story 100 plus years ago at Chicago). Besides these cannot be stopped or changed except in imagination

Let us say you are speaking for a caste called Brahmins. What makes you one? Are you living the definition of Brahmana in terms of Guna as described in Gita. Based on your writing you are not exposed to any of those in any depth to make a difference.

Have you heard of story of Ashtavakra Gita He had the most distorted figure and a story is that he entered Janaka's kingdom. All ministers started laughing at the distorted frame of Ashtavakra. But he started laughing at them. He was asked why

He replied that King is surrounded by leather and hyde merchants pretending to be vidwans. That they are so shallow that they can only focus on the appearance of a body. In a way he was calling out the shallow and ugly mind of the so called Vidwans in the darbar.

The thinking of body features and making judgments is shallow and from a Guna point of view is delusional and hence Tamasic. When Tamas is predominant in a person that makes for shudra varna.

Quoting you earlier in one of the post: "Brahmins are known historically for being priests, scholars and teachers... They were the ones who studied the Vedas and other texts nad performed the rituals."

OK - have you dedicated your life to studying vedas and upanishads? Do you know that less than 5% of mantras in most rituals recited by competent sastrigal is from Vedas? Rituals are mostly for Kamya Karmas. It is a baby step to know the truth of life. Have you devoted time to study the scriptures with Sankara Bhashya. From this metric you cannot help any community

You wrote " Non Brahmins are less attractive and less intelligent. Why should one pollute his bloodline genes? This is why intercast marriages are wrong."

What monstrosity of ignorance. The English language you use here is not developed by Brahmin caste. This forum implementation was not conceived by Brahmins The hosting site supported by people are not Brahmins
Every item that touches your life, from your phone to computer , is not there because of contributions of Brahmin caste for most part.

Also the above quoted statement is an expression of ignorant superiority.

Hypocrisy is the worst in any discussion. At least if you say you feel superior then that can be responded to .

I wanted to give you examples why the thinking you have shown here represent ugliness.

If you want to help others in whatever community you think you belong, help yourselves first by become educated in our knowledge scriptures.

I am learning Sanskrit to study vedas and upanishads because I don't think translations convey the msg accurately so I am trying to . I pursue education and attain good karmas and eat pure veg food my whole life. I feel that I am following my guna well.

How is it tamasic to prefer to marry someone who looks better ? As long as you don't make fun of someone or mistreat them for their facial features, it is fine to prefer to marry someone with better features and prefer that your ethnic group do the same.

When I talk about intelligence being lower in non Brahmins I am mainly talking about non Brahmin Indians. IQ studies have been conducted showing the average IQ of Brahmins to be 10+ points higher than non Brahmins. Brahmins have contributed more than other groups to literature, science, and art than other groups.

 

[XLR8R]

No superiority... He is just stating his observation. Intercaste marriages is wrong because it reesults in the loss of Brahmin culture and customs... Non Brahmins are less attractive and less intelligent. Why should one pollute his bloodline genes? This is why intercast marriages are wrong.

Wrong to say any caste is more attractive or intelligent etc.

I personally found a lot of Chettiar and Vellalar girls of TN much more attractive than Iyers/Iyengars, to give just one example out of so many. But it is a point observation that has zero statistical significance.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

Consider this situation. When someone insults you as a retaliation and you get angry that anger you get is probably out of ego. You may have previously done wrong to that person and so he is responding. That sort may not be approved.

But when you get anger based on pure objective reasons it is justified. Actually you cannot call it anger but a response that is dharmic. When does something tend towards the adharmic ? The more it is done for selfish ends. That is a great yardstick to measure adharma. That was what I was referring to

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

Consider this situation. When someone insults you as a retaliation and you get angry that anger you get is probavly out of ego. You may have previously done wrong to that person and so he is responding. That sort may not be approved.

But when you get anger based on pure objective reasons it is justified. Actually you cannot call it anger but a response that is dharmic. When does something tend towards the adharmic ? The more it is done for selfish ends. That is a great yardstick to measure adharma. That was what I was referring to

Sravna,

If I get angry( which I hardly do these days)..whatever the reason ranging from insults to accusations or pure objective reasons and even IF I am innocent yet I call it ANGER.

By trying to justify my reactions as Dharmic anger is totally Adharmic in my opinion.

Kama,Krodha, Lobha, Moha,Mada and Matsarya..all these 6 enemies need to be transcended.

The 1st step is identifying these 6 enemies in us and working around it as in trying to transcend it.

By calling our anger a Dharmic Krodha
I am only allowing myself to degrade.

Bhagavad Gita:


For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy.

 

[sravna]

It is mostly ones perspectives and true objectivity is very difficult to come by. Both the brahmins and the non brahmins in TN have their cases. Brahmins for being viciously targetted now and non brahmins for projection of superiority by the brahmins.

Whichever group shows maturity and takes steps to resolve the issue is doing an absolute right. But there are pragmatic issues here. Even when you want to be amicable the opposite side may perceive it as a sign of weakness and may want to continue aggravating the problem.

One possible solution is when one is in a position of strength and offers peace. That is when you are taken seriously.

 

[sravna]

Sravna,

If I get angry( which I hardly do these days)..whatever the reason ranging from insults to accusations or pure objective reasons and even IF I am innocent yet I call it ANGER.

By trying to justify my reactions as Dharmic anger is totally Adharmic in my opinion.

Kama,Krodha, Lobha, Moha,Mada and Matsarya..all these 6 enemies need to be transcended.

The 1st step is identifying these 6 enemies in us and working around it as in trying to transcend it.

By calling our anger a Dharmic Krodha
I am only allowing myself to degrade.

Bhagavad Gita:


For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy.

Renuka

Take the extreme case of God's wrath. Think of Kali. Think of Narasimha. Their anger is because gross adharma was done.

 

[renuka]

Renuka

Take the extreme case of God's wrath. Think of Kali. Think of Narasimha. Their anger is because gross adharma was done.

Narasimha and Kali actions are not Anger driven.
I would prefer to call it a Surgical Strike.

Take soldiers fighting in a battle field..they do not have ANGER.
Anger clouds the intellect and they wont be able to overcome the enemy.

Again and again we love to think Narasimha, Kali,Parashurama all were Anger driven so we use them as excuses to fight with others.

Another example everyone uses is " Krishna told to Arjuna stand up and fight"

Thats the only line we all misuse to justify our desire to fight but we do not follow anything else in the Gita.

 

[sravna]

Narasimha and Kali actions are not Anger driven.
I would prefer to call it a Surgical Strike.

Take soldiers fighting in a battle field..they do not have ANGER.
Anger clouds the intellect and they wont be able to overcome the enemy.

Again and again we love to think Narasimha, Kali,Parashurama all were Anger driven so we use them as excuses to fight with others.

Another example everyone uses is " Krishna told to Arjuna stand up and fight"

Thats the only line we all misuse to justify our desire to fight but we do not follow anything else in the Gita.

No Renuka. I just wanted to show sometimes an intense and forceful reaction is justified.

I will also not advice anybody for a forceful reaction as it needs the ultimate discriminatory power to determine what is adharma. Most times as you say it is ego driven.

Good point Renuka.

 

[a-TB]

I am learning Sanskrit to study vedas and upanishads because I don't think translations convey the msg accurately so I am trying to . I pursue education and attain good karmas and eat pure veg food my whole life. I feel that I am following my guna well.

How is it tamasic to prefer to marry someone who looks better ? As long as you don't make fun of someone or mistreat them for their facial features, it is fine to prefer to marry someone with better features and prefer that your ethnic group do the same.

When I talk about intelligence being lower in non Brahmins I am mainly talking about non Brahmin Indians. IQ studies have been conducted showing the average IQ of Brahmins to be 10+ points higher than non Brahmins. Brahmins have contributed more than other groups to literature, science, and art than other groups.

97 percent of Vedas are Karmas and Upasanas, most of which are dedicated to fulfilling desire based action. The last part of Upanishad is all about breaking away from the prior 95% or so. In all Karma, you start with sankalspa which is a statement to assert what fruits of Karma you are seeking. If you study Gita, what Sri Krishna says is that one that chases fruits of action (Karma) is a wretched person. The ritual and upasana parts are mostly inane and not applicable Yajur veda has descriptions of rituals involving animal sacrifices. Now alternate interpretations exist but many scholars say that those did not stop practitioners from doing animal sacrifices.

One needs to study with a properly qualified teacher which is very hard because most are not fit to be a teacher. They make things up. There are ways to know who could be a right teacher but that is digression.

My point is that to seek knowledge of Gita and Upanishad from the right source, do your nithya karmas properly as starters. Conceptual knowledge is useless. You cannot help anyone and there is no need to help. Ramana Maharishi never built an ashram or called himself a teacher. He was a nobody in silence for 17 years. Today there are centers worldwide studying Ramana Maharishi's teaching . So he helped without doing anything


Anyway, when you study properly you will discover that evaluating others in terms of their physical looks arises from your own deep identification with the body. Body is inert and this deepest identification that forces you to make such statements means you are under the spell of Tamasic Guna

When a person is an alcoholic, they seek help and the person is told to know he is addicted in order to come out of it . Same is the case with being drowned in Tamas.

You are welcome to marry who you find attractive. There is nothing right or wrong about it. It is all body identification and that is how the world is But you want to think there are standards of beauty that are universal. That is rank ignorance, a step beyond most people.

PM Modi I think is non-brahmin, so is Annamalai. They are some of the brightest people in the planet. Look at all the scientists within India, Most are not Brahmin caste. The study that claim what you are citing is suspect and fake, It is a different topic. You show me a published test that is peer reviewed and accepted. Otherwise you are justifying your prejudices with some pseudo science.

In the world, Jewish people have contributed enormously. They are not Brahmins.

Those that are predominantly satvic and possess the broadminded intellect are Brahmins. They come from all societies in India and elsewhere. It is also not based on birth But almost all those 'proud' of their birth and Brahmin caste, are not contributors and tend to be deluded.

If you are a vegetarian and trained that way that is fine, nothing to brag. If you know why you are a vegetarian and if the principle which drives you to be a vegetarian is followed in every other walk of life, that is noteworthy. But then you will not be drowned in delusion of judgments you have expressed thus far.