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Brahmins and Tamil society
- Thread starter tanjoreculture
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Don't give up
I would like to tell Mr. Raghuram and any young person still struggling to make a career, establish a family and fulfill responsibilities not to give up or fall victim to fatalism. Its tough but don't give up.
I would like to tell Mr. Raghuram and any young person still struggling to make a career, establish a family and fulfill responsibilities not to give up or fall victim to fatalism. Its tough but don't give up.
Not voting is the highest form of non-violent protest
Following my suggestion that not just the Brahmins but also other Hindu residents of India (whose only identity now is ‘unreserved’ category) should desist from casting their vote in the elections after making a public declaration, I was surprised to receive a response that not casting vote amounts to running away.
I am afraid this is an incorrect assessment. Far from advocating running away, I am advocating that the struggle be intensified. How? Let me elucidate.
Ever since India became independent, and the ‘unreserved’ category was invented and granted the princely status of third-rate residentship, people have been voting. Whoever comes to power drives the knife deeper into the unreserved category. One set of caste extremists are replaced another. Each new dispensation finds newer avenues and newer techniques of discrimination in the quest for achieving caste-based social justice (whatever that is supposed to mean). Tamil Nadu is the State worst hit by the plague of social justice. Now it is spreading to the rest of India. Courtesy of article 15(4) and its brazen, blatant and diabolical misuse, the right to vote of the ‘unreserved’ category is now a meaningless right that exists only on paper. No matter whom you vote for, whoever comes to power will carry on with the propagation of the fraudulent “centuries of oppression” theory and the need for an institutionalised form of vengeance/vendetta/retribution. Has fifty years of voting changed anything? Things have gone from bad to hopelessness.
From 12% entitlement, 70% has been reached. Then of course there is also the right to entry thru the leftover (jhoota) merit seats too. In theory the quota addicts can get 100% while the rest can get Zero and yet be called forward/oppressors/dominant!
The unreserved category have become political untouchables. No political party or politicians (including of the unreserved variety) is willing to stand up to oppose the savage rape of the democratic system. All of them are actively colluding with the quota extremists to disenfranchise us. Even the cry of the poorest amongst us is not heard. The conduct of the Indian politicians is a blatant violation of the Civil Rights Act that prohibits untouchability. The refusal of certain political parties to provide tickets to Brahmins and their resolute refusal to respect their rights to education, jobs, prosperity and dignity if it does not amount to untouchability, what else is it?
What I have suggested is a form of satyagraha. It is protest by renunciation of the highest order. It is an acknowledgment that everything is over for us. The right to education, to jobs and prosperity have been mercilessly taken away. A system that ensures non-violent extermination has been put in place. The right to vote will fetch you nothing. Can anybody name even one prominent politician who can stand up for the 50 cr people of the ‘unreserved’ category? Ms Jayalalitha is supposed to be a Brahmin. But where is the evidence? What has Mr SV Sekar done? What did Vajpayee do? What has Murli Manohar Joshi done?
Unlike the quota addicts who indulge in violence, destroy property and indulge in unsocial activities to get entitlements, the unreserved people, particularly the Brahmins protest in a democratic and non-violent manner. There is nothing wrong in this kind of passive protest. Not casting vote is also a form of protest, particularly if it is in a collective manner.
There are other non-violent forms of protest and I am convinced that these should be seriously considered and pursued. These are not celebrating festivals, not watching the national waste time cricket (atleast in the stadiums) it will save money that can be put to better use, not visiting cinema theatres etc. These are passive forms of protest and very legitimate. Abstinence from the above activities over a ten-year period will do a lot of good. After all which God has saved our rights? Whether or not you people are convinced, people in my family are convinced and are happy to cooperate.
I am neither a fatalist nor trying to make a career. Responsibility does not mean turning a blind eye to institutionalised wrong doing. Had the USA and UK been more concerned, many jews would have been saved!
In my next post I will provide concrete evidence to prove how the national media is spreading falsehood, lies and ill will against the ‘unreserved’ category residents of India.
Following my suggestion that not just the Brahmins but also other Hindu residents of India (whose only identity now is ‘unreserved’ category) should desist from casting their vote in the elections after making a public declaration, I was surprised to receive a response that not casting vote amounts to running away.
I am afraid this is an incorrect assessment. Far from advocating running away, I am advocating that the struggle be intensified. How? Let me elucidate.
Ever since India became independent, and the ‘unreserved’ category was invented and granted the princely status of third-rate residentship, people have been voting. Whoever comes to power drives the knife deeper into the unreserved category. One set of caste extremists are replaced another. Each new dispensation finds newer avenues and newer techniques of discrimination in the quest for achieving caste-based social justice (whatever that is supposed to mean). Tamil Nadu is the State worst hit by the plague of social justice. Now it is spreading to the rest of India. Courtesy of article 15(4) and its brazen, blatant and diabolical misuse, the right to vote of the ‘unreserved’ category is now a meaningless right that exists only on paper. No matter whom you vote for, whoever comes to power will carry on with the propagation of the fraudulent “centuries of oppression” theory and the need for an institutionalised form of vengeance/vendetta/retribution. Has fifty years of voting changed anything? Things have gone from bad to hopelessness.
From 12% entitlement, 70% has been reached. Then of course there is also the right to entry thru the leftover (jhoota) merit seats too. In theory the quota addicts can get 100% while the rest can get Zero and yet be called forward/oppressors/dominant!
The unreserved category have become political untouchables. No political party or politicians (including of the unreserved variety) is willing to stand up to oppose the savage rape of the democratic system. All of them are actively colluding with the quota extremists to disenfranchise us. Even the cry of the poorest amongst us is not heard. The conduct of the Indian politicians is a blatant violation of the Civil Rights Act that prohibits untouchability. The refusal of certain political parties to provide tickets to Brahmins and their resolute refusal to respect their rights to education, jobs, prosperity and dignity if it does not amount to untouchability, what else is it?
What I have suggested is a form of satyagraha. It is protest by renunciation of the highest order. It is an acknowledgment that everything is over for us. The right to education, to jobs and prosperity have been mercilessly taken away. A system that ensures non-violent extermination has been put in place. The right to vote will fetch you nothing. Can anybody name even one prominent politician who can stand up for the 50 cr people of the ‘unreserved’ category? Ms Jayalalitha is supposed to be a Brahmin. But where is the evidence? What has Mr SV Sekar done? What did Vajpayee do? What has Murli Manohar Joshi done?
Unlike the quota addicts who indulge in violence, destroy property and indulge in unsocial activities to get entitlements, the unreserved people, particularly the Brahmins protest in a democratic and non-violent manner. There is nothing wrong in this kind of passive protest. Not casting vote is also a form of protest, particularly if it is in a collective manner.
There are other non-violent forms of protest and I am convinced that these should be seriously considered and pursued. These are not celebrating festivals, not watching the national waste time cricket (atleast in the stadiums) it will save money that can be put to better use, not visiting cinema theatres etc. These are passive forms of protest and very legitimate. Abstinence from the above activities over a ten-year period will do a lot of good. After all which God has saved our rights? Whether or not you people are convinced, people in my family are convinced and are happy to cooperate.
I am neither a fatalist nor trying to make a career. Responsibility does not mean turning a blind eye to institutionalised wrong doing. Had the USA and UK been more concerned, many jews would have been saved!
In my next post I will provide concrete evidence to prove how the national media is spreading falsehood, lies and ill will against the ‘unreserved’ category residents of India.
Dear friends,
After a long time, I am back and I am happy about it. Regarding this thread - "Brahmins and Tamil Society" I would like to share some old stuff. My intention is not to hurt anybody, any person from any caste.
About twenty four years back, myself and some of my friends ( at that time I was an active member of *******'s small unit of our locality in TamilNadu) as a part of finding the facts task , did some survey in about two dozen schools. We had used our good contacts and even in some cases a far more... also, to get some statistics. A portion of the data was about " The caste details of the Unreserved Category students joined in that year "(in each school we have contacted).
Mind! this survey was taken about 24 years ago. Those days it was almost mandatory to mention about the caste even for the case of UR category. Could you guess what was the result!( I don't have the papers now)
Almost 99% of the students were Brahmins (total Sample population was about 6000 including students from all caste). My hometown is one of the big cities of TN. I can even remember how nicely, the most of the other N.B.-UR Category candidates (rather their parents made)had made themselves in the reserved category list. We were shocked. In fact we made a sincere effort, to make TN a state having 100 % of people covered under some reservation. But the effort failed. Great people of ******* tried but in vain. More about that, I will write later.
Regards to All.
After a long time, I am back and I am happy about it. Regarding this thread - "Brahmins and Tamil Society" I would like to share some old stuff. My intention is not to hurt anybody, any person from any caste.
About twenty four years back, myself and some of my friends ( at that time I was an active member of *******'s small unit of our locality in TamilNadu) as a part of finding the facts task , did some survey in about two dozen schools. We had used our good contacts and even in some cases a far more... also, to get some statistics. A portion of the data was about " The caste details of the Unreserved Category students joined in that year "(in each school we have contacted).
Mind! this survey was taken about 24 years ago. Those days it was almost mandatory to mention about the caste even for the case of UR category. Could you guess what was the result!( I don't have the papers now)
Almost 99% of the students were Brahmins (total Sample population was about 6000 including students from all caste). My hometown is one of the big cities of TN. I can even remember how nicely, the most of the other N.B.-UR Category candidates (rather their parents made)had made themselves in the reserved category list. We were shocked. In fact we made a sincere effort, to make TN a state having 100 % of people covered under some reservation. But the effort failed. Great people of ******* tried but in vain. More about that, I will write later.
Regards to All.
Dear Sri raghuram04
I can see the bottled up frustration and concern for fellow brahmins in your posts. Out of sheer curiosity I went through the nine posts made by you so far in the past two years. All of them are reflective of the plight due to reservations in varying degrees. No doubt our fellow brahmins have been the sufferers because of this regulation. Elsewhere in this forum another member has brought out the fact that prior to some 200 years ago, the current system of learning was not there and therefore the level of education was quite different. Whether or not we like it the British had imposed a system of learning and we are struck with it. In some manners, this system has also helped India, that is Bharat, realise and reap the benefits of its own Human resource.
With the times, the outlook does get changed. Just about ten years ago, it was thought that Bharat's population is its weakness; Its growth rate is something very alarming and what not. But now, Bharat has turned the same thing to her advantage. IT (read also as "it'' referring to population) is our strength. Our manpower is second to none. We can offer from Janitors to Technocrat to Astronaut and what not. One day a person of Indian origin will be the US President as well. That is the strength of Bharat's culture. In preserving this culture over thousands of years the Brahmins have played a major role. While the literature of many languages have vanished, the Sanskrit literature has survived thousands of years. They were taught in the strict Guru Sishya parampara method and were written only on palm leaves. Why I say all these? To impress upon you to have faith in our age old values, system, heritage and the strength born out of Dharmic Path.
We need not protest violently. We need not assemble on the streets and lose our prestige and gauravam. But we can silently show our strength as Bharat has just done by turning its population card from weakness to strength. Centuries ago, it was this population that the enemies divided to rule us. Now it is this population that is united in its efforts in educationg and improving its skill sets. That delivered. And left the rest beaten.
The Tamil brahmins are known for their positive response. Yes, there was Veera Vanchi who shot dead Collector Ash, but we need nothing of that sort today. Our strength lies in our knowledge. And knowledge is power. Let us stay united, contribute our mite for the welfare of our fellow beings. A beginning has been made by making this forum. We need to chalk out a plan of action and move ahead in a positive manner. You had written in one of your posts about a poor brahmin who had some five or six children. I was happy reading that. Our fellow brahmins are on a negative growth mode as far as population is concerned. On my part I am on an even growth. This guy has covered up some shortfall. We can probably take care of the education of the children like his and many other poorer ones. When they grow, he will be richer than many of us. That is the way his weakness can be converted into strength.
Let us think of a positive action and put it too - to imporve the entire lot. Even if reservation is there, if we can start a University - just See what the Vanniars have done - who can hold us back?
I can see the bottled up frustration and concern for fellow brahmins in your posts. Out of sheer curiosity I went through the nine posts made by you so far in the past two years. All of them are reflective of the plight due to reservations in varying degrees. No doubt our fellow brahmins have been the sufferers because of this regulation. Elsewhere in this forum another member has brought out the fact that prior to some 200 years ago, the current system of learning was not there and therefore the level of education was quite different. Whether or not we like it the British had imposed a system of learning and we are struck with it. In some manners, this system has also helped India, that is Bharat, realise and reap the benefits of its own Human resource.
With the times, the outlook does get changed. Just about ten years ago, it was thought that Bharat's population is its weakness; Its growth rate is something very alarming and what not. But now, Bharat has turned the same thing to her advantage. IT (read also as "it'' referring to population) is our strength. Our manpower is second to none. We can offer from Janitors to Technocrat to Astronaut and what not. One day a person of Indian origin will be the US President as well. That is the strength of Bharat's culture. In preserving this culture over thousands of years the Brahmins have played a major role. While the literature of many languages have vanished, the Sanskrit literature has survived thousands of years. They were taught in the strict Guru Sishya parampara method and were written only on palm leaves. Why I say all these? To impress upon you to have faith in our age old values, system, heritage and the strength born out of Dharmic Path.
We need not protest violently. We need not assemble on the streets and lose our prestige and gauravam. But we can silently show our strength as Bharat has just done by turning its population card from weakness to strength. Centuries ago, it was this population that the enemies divided to rule us. Now it is this population that is united in its efforts in educationg and improving its skill sets. That delivered. And left the rest beaten.
The Tamil brahmins are known for their positive response. Yes, there was Veera Vanchi who shot dead Collector Ash, but we need nothing of that sort today. Our strength lies in our knowledge. And knowledge is power. Let us stay united, contribute our mite for the welfare of our fellow beings. A beginning has been made by making this forum. We need to chalk out a plan of action and move ahead in a positive manner. You had written in one of your posts about a poor brahmin who had some five or six children. I was happy reading that. Our fellow brahmins are on a negative growth mode as far as population is concerned. On my part I am on an even growth. This guy has covered up some shortfall. We can probably take care of the education of the children like his and many other poorer ones. When they grow, he will be richer than many of us. That is the way his weakness can be converted into strength.
Let us think of a positive action and put it too - to imporve the entire lot. Even if reservation is there, if we can start a University - just See what the Vanniars have done - who can hold us back?
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S
Saab
Guest
Well said Appaiahji!
In another forum that I am involved with, there was a debate on the education system that changed in post colonial days. A gentleman who did not hide his anti-Brahmin stance observed that people of each varna were experts in their own fields and wrote books in their respective field prior to British involvement. The Englishman changed the system so as to sever him. This gentleman lamented that it had let Brahmins to learn not only on their Vedic treatises but also on medicine, engineering, architecture and so on and so forth which were not in their domain. It became difficult for others to compete with the Brahmins and he was loudly suggesting that the Brahmins should be forbidden from learning anything other than the Vedas!
I was wondering who is now advocating varnasrama dharma!! Poor guy does not know that the Vedic knowledge is a must for all Hindus except the intellectually challenged.
Yes, indeed, Appaiahji, we should turn everything that was imposed on us to be a burden into an advantage not only for the Brahmins but for all Hindus. I am shoulder to shoulder with you on the onward march!
Regards,
Saab
In another forum that I am involved with, there was a debate on the education system that changed in post colonial days. A gentleman who did not hide his anti-Brahmin stance observed that people of each varna were experts in their own fields and wrote books in their respective field prior to British involvement. The Englishman changed the system so as to sever him. This gentleman lamented that it had let Brahmins to learn not only on their Vedic treatises but also on medicine, engineering, architecture and so on and so forth which were not in their domain. It became difficult for others to compete with the Brahmins and he was loudly suggesting that the Brahmins should be forbidden from learning anything other than the Vedas!
I was wondering who is now advocating varnasrama dharma!! Poor guy does not know that the Vedic knowledge is a must for all Hindus except the intellectually challenged.
Yes, indeed, Appaiahji, we should turn everything that was imposed on us to be a burden into an advantage not only for the Brahmins but for all Hindus. I am shoulder to shoulder with you on the onward march!
Regards,
Saab
Dear Sri Saab
Namaskarams
I am not inclined to get into discussions on Varnasrama and the aftermath, the arithmatics after discussions on Varna and the like.
Simply because the discussion on such topics gets heated and causes the most unwanted division and bitterness among us. In fact, it is Rajaji's introduction of the "Kula kalvi thittam" that has earned the displeasure of all the other castes among Hindus against brahmins. That is the foremost reason as to why the hatred against Brahmins is predominant in Tamilnadu alone, but not on Karnataka, Andhra or Kerala. Less said the better for the community. We need to put the past behind and overcome our surmounting problems.
You have stated that
We should not deviate from the goal at all. This forum is for the Tamil brahmins. Here we shall focus only on the means of advancing the cause of the Tamil Brahmins, bettering their education, social upliftment, employment opportunities, regulating and preserving the vedic studies and cultural heritage. For discussing or working for the Hindu cause there are many out in the whole world and they will take care. On the other hand, for the Tamil Brahmins alone, there is very little who come forward openly to say "I stand by you". Let us fill that gap. We must keep in mind that just making the posts in a forum like this is not any service at all. One shall do shramdhan, dhanadhan, bhoomidhan for the cause. The cause is a positive one. Creation first of education opportunities then of employment opportunities. The rest can come in the later phases.
Rather than spending our energies in discussing contentious issues like Varnasrama, we can focus on solving the problems facing the community. I was attracted only by the spontanious and voluntary contributions made by some forumites for education and the like. We should focus on streamlining those activities rather than getting at the large Hindu cause, for which there are many all over the world, and most of them have political motives as well.
Namaskarams
I am not inclined to get into discussions on Varnasrama and the aftermath, the arithmatics after discussions on Varna and the like.
Simply because the discussion on such topics gets heated and causes the most unwanted division and bitterness among us. In fact, it is Rajaji's introduction of the "Kula kalvi thittam" that has earned the displeasure of all the other castes among Hindus against brahmins. That is the foremost reason as to why the hatred against Brahmins is predominant in Tamilnadu alone, but not on Karnataka, Andhra or Kerala. Less said the better for the community. We need to put the past behind and overcome our surmounting problems.
You have stated that
We should not deviate from the goal at all. This forum is for the Tamil brahmins. Here we shall focus only on the means of advancing the cause of the Tamil Brahmins, bettering their education, social upliftment, employment opportunities, regulating and preserving the vedic studies and cultural heritage. For discussing or working for the Hindu cause there are many out in the whole world and they will take care. On the other hand, for the Tamil Brahmins alone, there is very little who come forward openly to say "I stand by you". Let us fill that gap. We must keep in mind that just making the posts in a forum like this is not any service at all. One shall do shramdhan, dhanadhan, bhoomidhan for the cause. The cause is a positive one. Creation first of education opportunities then of employment opportunities. The rest can come in the later phases.
Rather than spending our energies in discussing contentious issues like Varnasrama, we can focus on solving the problems facing the community. I was attracted only by the spontanious and voluntary contributions made by some forumites for education and the like. We should focus on streamlining those activities rather than getting at the large Hindu cause, for which there are many all over the world, and most of them have political motives as well.
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S
Saab
Guest
Sure, no problem with me Appaiahji!
Regards,
Saab
Regards,
Saab
Everything is over
The illegal and unconstitutional aggregation of people as 'majority' and 'minority' castes has finished off the citizenship of 'minority' caste groups. The disenfranchisment and decitizenisation of 'non-quota' Hindus on all-india basis is complete. No matter whom you vote for, one set of panderers will be replaced by another. Each group of extremist competes with the other to prove who is more loyal to the chimera of Social Justice. A hundred years ago hate promotion as an ideology was adopted to achieve social justice. The brahmins were wiped out from all fields (pol pot did something similar in Cambodia and called it 'agrarian revolution') and today the demand for social justice is more louder than ever. For some sick people the mere birth of/presence of 'brahmins' has become a source of 'oppression'. That is the reason why the 88% is called 'oppressed'.
The word 'upper caste', 'forward caste', 'forward class' are illegal, unconstitutional and illegitimate expressions appended to a set of people without their authorisation. The constitution of India does not contain the above terms, nor does it contain the term 'backward caste'.
Brahmins are brahmins like the sikhs are sikhs, the muslims are muslims. Brahmins are neither upper nor lower. Brahmins do not say who is what and it is not our business to categorise people. They are humans first and probably indians next. It all depends on which side of the divide one is.
Many people comprising of groups, individuals and certain sections of the media are engaged in the full time occupation of inventing and spreading lies and falsehoods. Some have adopted hate-promotion as an ideology.
Illegal and dubious expressions are invented and thrown into the public sphere which is readily adopted by the collaborationist media. Schemes that actually exclude people based on birth (a private matter which is nobody's business) is presented as 'inclusiveness'. Schemes that proclaim 'exclusive privilege' are called 'inclusive'. People who hold 95% posts are called 'marginalised'. In this way lies and falsehood is promoted. In this way the terrorised media (which proclaims India is the world's largest democracy), adopts and gives legitimacy to such dubious terminologies.
Please see
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070010087
The above is a vicious article on brahmins by a devotee of Nazism.
The illegal and unconstitutional aggregation of people as 'majority' and 'minority' castes has finished off the citizenship of 'minority' caste groups. The disenfranchisment and decitizenisation of 'non-quota' Hindus on all-india basis is complete. No matter whom you vote for, one set of panderers will be replaced by another. Each group of extremist competes with the other to prove who is more loyal to the chimera of Social Justice. A hundred years ago hate promotion as an ideology was adopted to achieve social justice. The brahmins were wiped out from all fields (pol pot did something similar in Cambodia and called it 'agrarian revolution') and today the demand for social justice is more louder than ever. For some sick people the mere birth of/presence of 'brahmins' has become a source of 'oppression'. That is the reason why the 88% is called 'oppressed'.
The word 'upper caste', 'forward caste', 'forward class' are illegal, unconstitutional and illegitimate expressions appended to a set of people without their authorisation. The constitution of India does not contain the above terms, nor does it contain the term 'backward caste'.
Brahmins are brahmins like the sikhs are sikhs, the muslims are muslims. Brahmins are neither upper nor lower. Brahmins do not say who is what and it is not our business to categorise people. They are humans first and probably indians next. It all depends on which side of the divide one is.
Many people comprising of groups, individuals and certain sections of the media are engaged in the full time occupation of inventing and spreading lies and falsehoods. Some have adopted hate-promotion as an ideology.
Illegal and dubious expressions are invented and thrown into the public sphere which is readily adopted by the collaborationist media. Schemes that actually exclude people based on birth (a private matter which is nobody's business) is presented as 'inclusiveness'. Schemes that proclaim 'exclusive privilege' are called 'inclusive'. People who hold 95% posts are called 'marginalised'. In this way lies and falsehood is promoted. In this way the terrorised media (which proclaims India is the world's largest democracy), adopts and gives legitimacy to such dubious terminologies.
Please see
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070010087
The above is a vicious article on brahmins by a devotee of Nazism.
S
Saab
Guest
Yes indeed! India is not even 'secular' by definition of equality of citizens. In Kashmir the Pandits (kashmiri brahmins) were massacred in tens of thousands and driven out in lakhs. (No other country can boast of such making refugees of the people in their own country as the Congress's Hindustan an oxymoron naamadheyam for Congress's India. They also mouth another oxymoron slogan 'Jai Hind' while doing everything against the Hindus. Aren't you reminded of the "Hindu" newspaper that is viciously against the Hindus?) Hindus from other parts of India are not allowed to settle in Kashmir and Sri Shyam Prasad Mukherjee the founder of Jan Sangh went to visit Kashmir in 1953, and went on hunger strike to protest the law prohibiting Indian citizens from settling in a state in their own country and the need to carry ID cards, and was arrested on 11th May while crossing border. Although the ID card rule was revoked owing to his efforts, he died as detenu in Kashmir on May 23, 1953 under mysterious circumstances. (wikipedia)
In Maharashtra the ugly head of parochialism is again raising its head under the leadership of Raj Thakaray with the blessings of the ruling Congress.
The biggest achievement of the Congress in post independent India is to carry forward the caste division instituted by the British to divide the Hindus and pit the Muslims and Christians against them. As Appaiahji rightly said Rajaji (then a Congress C.M. of Tamilnadu) unnecessarily played the caste card to the great disadvantage of Tamil Brahmins.
Read this fine article:
Caste discrimination a British invention, bigger than steam engine by
Prof R Vaidyanathan
http://hindutva97.blogspot.com/2008/02/caste-discrimination-british-invention.html
In Maharashtra the ugly head of parochialism is again raising its head under the leadership of Raj Thakaray with the blessings of the ruling Congress.
The biggest achievement of the Congress in post independent India is to carry forward the caste division instituted by the British to divide the Hindus and pit the Muslims and Christians against them. As Appaiahji rightly said Rajaji (then a Congress C.M. of Tamilnadu) unnecessarily played the caste card to the great disadvantage of Tamil Brahmins.
Read this fine article:
Caste discrimination a British invention, bigger than steam engine by
Prof R Vaidyanathan
http://hindutva97.blogspot.com/2008/02/caste-discrimination-british-invention.html
S
Saab
Guest
how can the government be secular when they can earmark Rs 1000 crore for the Muslims, provide subsidy of Rs 22,000 for Haj and allow them to have more than one spouse?
S
Saab
Guest
Oops! I meant to post this under 'Budget - Is this fair?' thread. Moderator, can you please move this to there?
Thanks
Thanks
Dear Nacchinarkiniyan, appaiah, KRS, et. al
I am a new member and I am in awe with the wealth of knowledge we have in this forum. These are the kind of stuff I have been looking to find for a longtime. It is revealing and breath taking for the quality of discussion over facts and reasoning without insinuation. Is it possible for you guys to lead an effort to debate, discuss and frame the evolution of tamil, its people, culture, history, etc. I would love to be part of the effort and volunteer right now. And us being tamils it will not be hard to find volunteers towards this effort.
The time to talk is over long time ago. But still no body acts. I am willing to act, but looking for some direction.
Appreciate it if you guys would give some consideration.
Thanks for the time.
I am a new member and I am in awe with the wealth of knowledge we have in this forum. These are the kind of stuff I have been looking to find for a longtime. It is revealing and breath taking for the quality of discussion over facts and reasoning without insinuation. Is it possible for you guys to lead an effort to debate, discuss and frame the evolution of tamil, its people, culture, history, etc. I would love to be part of the effort and volunteer right now. And us being tamils it will not be hard to find volunteers towards this effort.
The time to talk is over long time ago. But still no body acts. I am willing to act, but looking for some direction.
Appreciate it if you guys would give some consideration.
Thanks for the time.
Dear Srimathi/Sowbhagyavathi Gowri Ji,
I am sure either Sri Naachinarkiniyan Ji or Sri appaiah Ji will give proper thought to starting a thread on the genesis and history of Tamil culture. This is a huge undertaking and requires a lot of time spent on the part of the originator.
Unfortuanately, I am not in a position to do it as I have been living abroad for a fair portion of my life, and I am even quite rusty with my mother tongue (not that I am good with any language whatsoever).
Pranams,
KRS
I am sure either Sri Naachinarkiniyan Ji or Sri appaiah Ji will give proper thought to starting a thread on the genesis and history of Tamil culture. This is a huge undertaking and requires a lot of time spent on the part of the originator.
Unfortuanately, I am not in a position to do it as I have been living abroad for a fair portion of my life, and I am even quite rusty with my mother tongue (not that I am good with any language whatsoever).
Pranams,
KRS
Hello KRS Sir,
Not sure if you are being funny
But anyways I want to clarify that I am not a srimathi or sowbhagyavathi. Nor I am going to be.
I am still a bramhachari. The name is Gowrishankar (one word).
Yes, I do understand that cataloging the evolution of tamil culture would be a very strenuous process. But then someone has to do it. And me being in USA, it is tough for me to do the research. But I have thought about it for a while now and one feasible option would be to start an NGO and guys like me could donate our tax money towards this and thereby knowledgeable people (like in this forum) could give directions and we could hire people to research, write, etc.
Just a thought.
Waiting to hear from the esteemed members in the forum.
Not sure if you are being funny
But anyways I want to clarify that I am not a srimathi or sowbhagyavathi. Nor I am going to be.I am still a bramhachari. The name is Gowrishankar (one word).
Yes, I do understand that cataloging the evolution of tamil culture would be a very strenuous process. But then someone has to do it. And me being in USA, it is tough for me to do the research. But I have thought about it for a while now and one feasible option would be to start an NGO and guys like me could donate our tax money towards this and thereby knowledgeable people (like in this forum) could give directions and we could hire people to research, write, etc.
Just a thought.
Waiting to hear from the esteemed members in the forum.
Dear friends,
I feel the best way to re include Brahmins in the Present Tamil Society - is to include Brahmins also in the BC/MBC list. Genuinely "Sapindi Brahmins" are outcasts, need to be given some privilages including reservations etc. The move was tried some 20 years back but failed due to various reasons. Now it can be tried again as it may help the needy and poor young brahmins to get privilages like other NB forward communities. Also this will suit the hypocritic leaders of the present day. Follow the foot steps of others.
The effect will be doubled if we create the awareness (and also support continously by all means either directly or indirectly) among the real Schedule Caste & Tribe people(especially from villages and backward areas) that how they are actually sidelined by the creamy layer reserved categories (mostly from the so called BC & MBC groups).This will work certainly in the long run.
I feel the best way to re include Brahmins in the Present Tamil Society - is to include Brahmins also in the BC/MBC list. Genuinely "Sapindi Brahmins" are outcasts, need to be given some privilages including reservations etc. The move was tried some 20 years back but failed due to various reasons. Now it can be tried again as it may help the needy and poor young brahmins to get privilages like other NB forward communities. Also this will suit the hypocritic leaders of the present day. Follow the foot steps of others.
The effect will be doubled if we create the awareness (and also support continously by all means either directly or indirectly) among the real Schedule Caste & Tribe people(especially from villages and backward areas) that how they are actually sidelined by the creamy layer reserved categories (mostly from the so called BC & MBC groups).This will work certainly in the long run.
Dear Sri. HappyHindu,
Thanks for your posting. A few hours ago one of my friends informed me that his niece, inspite of getting 97% in PCB (this year H.S.) failed to get an admission in Govt/Aided Medical College for MBBS and was asked to take Dental Seat. She is in great distress now and my friend will be going to TN to console her.
Though this might please the sadistic egos of some politicians, it is a loss to anyone who believes in meritocracy.- You said.
My reply: I agree but no way.
Instead of giving in to the idea of caste-based reservations, why cannot reservations be based on economic-conditions of a family irrespective of caste / religion.
My reply: Excellent - Never it will happen ( atleast till near future)
Wud the prob be solved if the govt were to open many more colleges / universities instead of making reservations in the limited number of academic institutions we have and handling a burgeoning population seeking education?
My Reply:
Practically and Economically not viable solution.
How abt admissions based on donations (equivalent to bribery to some), which is also a sort of 'reservation-based' admission? I know someone (a non-brahmin) who refused to pursue a professional education in a well-known place because it was based on donation but instead chose to pursue a humble education in a remote place because that is the only admission she got on her own - on merit. Asking such people to believe in caste-based reservation is a blow to their faith in meritocracy.
My Reply:
Yes there are such people in this World too ! My Pranams to her. In General , very little value for the merit in the present world and I hope you might have realised that.
I feel the suggestions given by me are valid.
Regards,
Adiyean
Note: Readers of this post kindly read "(this year H.S.)" in the first few lines of the above text as "(Last Year H.S. Exam including the all the qualifying subjects and tests)".
The details are given in later posting. Error is regretted.
Thanks for your posting. A few hours ago one of my friends informed me that his niece, inspite of getting 97% in PCB (this year H.S.) failed to get an admission in Govt/Aided Medical College for MBBS and was asked to take Dental Seat. She is in great distress now and my friend will be going to TN to console her.
Though this might please the sadistic egos of some politicians, it is a loss to anyone who believes in meritocracy.- You said.
My reply: I agree but no way.
Instead of giving in to the idea of caste-based reservations, why cannot reservations be based on economic-conditions of a family irrespective of caste / religion.
My reply: Excellent - Never it will happen ( atleast till near future)
Wud the prob be solved if the govt were to open many more colleges / universities instead of making reservations in the limited number of academic institutions we have and handling a burgeoning population seeking education?
My Reply:
Practically and Economically not viable solution.
How abt admissions based on donations (equivalent to bribery to some), which is also a sort of 'reservation-based' admission? I know someone (a non-brahmin) who refused to pursue a professional education in a well-known place because it was based on donation but instead chose to pursue a humble education in a remote place because that is the only admission she got on her own - on merit. Asking such people to believe in caste-based reservation is a blow to their faith in meritocracy.
My Reply:
Yes there are such people in this World too ! My Pranams to her. In General , very little value for the merit in the present world and I hope you might have realised that.
I feel the suggestions given by me are valid.
Regards,
Adiyean
Note: Readers of this post kindly read "(this year H.S.)" in the first few lines of the above text as "(Last Year H.S. Exam including the all the qualifying subjects and tests)".
The details are given in later posting. Error is regretted.
Last edited:
Dear Sri. Happyhindu,
Thanks for ur reply.
Hope your friend will try and get her the seat on payment / donation basis (in this case she has performed well and need not feel guilty) - if money is a prob, then ppl coming forward to aid furtherment of ability / talent will not lack hopefully.
Reply: Even in Brahmins there are people who will choose as you said -humble education rather than going for Donation Seats. Payment seats in Medical Education are extremely costly. I hope you have the idea about that. Also many such young Brahmins may not take aid from others taking the self esteem as their pride.
Will still continue to stick to believing in meritocracy - life is a nicer game to play when played fair and just -- feels more meaningful -- no emotional baggage to carry forward (that is also actually "success" in itself).
Reply: I value merit and so most of the TAMBRAMS. I hope the emotional part of the young Brahmin (he or she) can be understood only if someone experience that personally or been with the affected person closely.
By seeking BC/OBC/MBC status based on caste, everyone is falling prey to the mean machinations of lowly politicians. Sad indeed.
The same politicians are the law makers of our country and they rule the country. So if we want to nullify the worst of isolation of a single community, you have to be like that but not leaving "swadharmam"
Thanks for ur reply.
Hope your friend will try and get her the seat on payment / donation basis (in this case she has performed well and need not feel guilty) - if money is a prob, then ppl coming forward to aid furtherment of ability / talent will not lack hopefully.
Reply: Even in Brahmins there are people who will choose as you said -humble education rather than going for Donation Seats. Payment seats in Medical Education are extremely costly. I hope you have the idea about that. Also many such young Brahmins may not take aid from others taking the self esteem as their pride.
Will still continue to stick to believing in meritocracy - life is a nicer game to play when played fair and just -- feels more meaningful -- no emotional baggage to carry forward (that is also actually "success" in itself).
Reply: I value merit and so most of the TAMBRAMS. I hope the emotional part of the young Brahmin (he or she) can be understood only if someone experience that personally or been with the affected person closely.
By seeking BC/OBC/MBC status based on caste, everyone is falling prey to the mean machinations of lowly politicians. Sad indeed.
The same politicians are the law makers of our country and they rule the country. So if we want to nullify the worst of isolation of a single community, you have to be like that but not leaving "swadharmam"
Dear Sri Adiyen
You had stated:
Can pl. you expand PCB?
This year HSC (+2 or 12th Standard) exams CBSE are over just a couple of days ago. State Board exams, I believe are underway. The results may come sometime only in May, generally.
How come this student has got 97% already?
The admissions for the medical colleges wont commence before June every year. Is is over so early this year?
Or is this the happening of the last year or years?
Namaskarams
Appaiah
You had stated:
Can pl. you expand PCB?
This year HSC (+2 or 12th Standard) exams CBSE are over just a couple of days ago. State Board exams, I believe are underway. The results may come sometime only in May, generally.
How come this student has got 97% already?
The admissions for the medical colleges wont commence before June every year. Is is over so early this year?
Or is this the happening of the last year or years?
Namaskarams
Appaiah
Dear Sri Adiyen
You had stated :
You are right.
The BC reservation system commenced in 1971. In 1972 a friend of mine didnot get a seat for Engineering though he was the first in his college in Pre-University exam. A good number of his classmates joined Engineering though they had scored much lower than him. This guy pursued a commerce degree and believe me, he was the most successful in his career and reached greater heights than any other not only in his batch but also in tens of batches before and after him in his town. Merit will always have its way, come what may.
You had stated :
You are right.
The BC reservation system commenced in 1971. In 1972 a friend of mine didnot get a seat for Engineering though he was the first in his college in Pre-University exam. A good number of his classmates joined Engineering though they had scored much lower than him. This guy pursued a commerce degree and believe me, he was the most successful in his career and reached greater heights than any other not only in his batch but also in tens of batches before and after him in his town. Merit will always have its way, come what may.
S
Saab
Guest
Regrets for Errors in my posting
Dear Sriman Appaiah,
Namaskarams !
A great " Neththi Adi" to me.
I sincerely apologise to eminant contributors like you and other readers of this forum for the errors in my posting.
Let me humbly explain my case - ( A lack of sincerity in homework before posting due to emotional breakdown).
I am out of TN since long time and also out of these basic academic facts (May results; June merit list/Admission etc)due to my professional compulsions. When my friend told about the matter a few days ago, I persumed this has happened this year etc and posted it erraneously. Since my friend is still out of the city , I could get only the information that it was last year's result and she is in great distress now and refusing to write All India Medical Entrance Exam this year etc. I will get detailed information once my friend will be back to the city.
Regarding "PCB" - I assumed Physics, Chemistry, Biology.
From the sources 97% is from all the qualyfying subjects and tests overall - I have to confirm that.
I hope you and others will forgive me for the errors.
In future I will try to be myself just I used to be in my profession which requires highest order of genuineness of facts in statement & work.
I have great respect and regards to you Sri. Appaiah as I have learnt a lot from your excellent postings particularly, the History of Brahmins.
I agree with you. But I feel all are not determined and fortunate like your friend. Individually I fully agree with you and I advise the same to all including to my near and dear. But I feel - we , the members of this forum should perceive the problem, taking the entire community as a whole and try to find out a practical and feasible solution.
with humble regards to you and others,
Adiyean
Dear Sriman Appaiah,
Namaskarams !
A great " Neththi Adi" to me.
I sincerely apologise to eminant contributors like you and other readers of this forum for the errors in my posting.
Let me humbly explain my case - ( A lack of sincerity in homework before posting due to emotional breakdown).
I am out of TN since long time and also out of these basic academic facts (May results; June merit list/Admission etc)due to my professional compulsions. When my friend told about the matter a few days ago, I persumed this has happened this year etc and posted it erraneously. Since my friend is still out of the city , I could get only the information that it was last year's result and she is in great distress now and refusing to write All India Medical Entrance Exam this year etc. I will get detailed information once my friend will be back to the city.
Regarding "PCB" - I assumed Physics, Chemistry, Biology.
From the sources 97% is from all the qualyfying subjects and tests overall - I have to confirm that.
I hope you and others will forgive me for the errors.
In future I will try to be myself just I used to be in my profession which requires highest order of genuineness of facts in statement & work.
I have great respect and regards to you Sri. Appaiah as I have learnt a lot from your excellent postings particularly, the History of Brahmins.
PHP:
You are right.
The BC reservation system commenced in 1971. In 1972 a friend of mine didnot get a seat for Engineering though he was the first in his college in Pre-University exam. A good number of his classmates joined Engineering though they had scored much lower than him. This guy pursued a commerce degree and believe me, he was the most successful in his career and reached greater heights than any other not only in his batch but also in tens of batches before and after him in his town. Merit will always have its way, come what may.with humble regards to you and others,
Adiyean
Last edited:
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