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Brahmins and Tamil society
- Thread starter tanjoreculture
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Brahmins in Tamil Society
Dear Sri Malgova,
I enjoyed your reply. As per your wish, I supplement what I had written already.
1. Like many 'avvaiyars' in Tamil history, there could have been more than
one 'Vyasa'. (The Tamil word avvai denotes an old woman -Moodhati -
and in Telugu too, 'avva' means grandmother). Whoever wrote a
kaavyam or Puranam in Sanskrit must have been given the title 'Vyasa'.
This is my understanding.
2. 'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there. All the inscriptions
relating to B.C. were in these languages. Even the language of 'vedas'
differed in form and grammar from the present day sanskrit to a large
extent. Please tell me how many inscriptions of Asoka, Chandragupta
Maurya, Harsha and other north Indian kings were in Sanskrit.
3. I stick to my view that Lord Muruga originated from Tamil land only.
Since it is a vast subject, we will talk about that later.
4. As I have been repeatedly highlighting in all my posts, all brahmins were
not exploiters nor persecutors of the oppressed. But, haven't you heard
many brahmins who were custodians of temple properties siphoned them
off, for personal use? Haven't you seen offsprings of such brahmins
in most of the cases were either physically handicapped or mentally
retarded? (Even 'sandaala' community supposedly came into existence,
because of Brahmin-Lower castes cross) :tape2:
5. Only in Tamilnadu, I have seen the 'Grandham', an admixture of Sanskrit
and Tamil. Sacred texts in Sanskrit were written in 'Grandham' bhasha,
for the brahmins to understand their pronounciation correctly and recite
them properly. Therefore, I do not dispute the existence of puranas and
other sacred texts in Tamilnadu for thousands of years, but I have my
own doubts whether their Sanskrit version existed here from time
immemorial, as observed by you.
Few drops of poison in the brahmin society spoiled the pot-full of nectar!
This is what upset me much.
Regards,
pannvalan
Dear Sri Malgova,
I enjoyed your reply. As per your wish, I supplement what I had written already.
1. Like many 'avvaiyars' in Tamil history, there could have been more than
one 'Vyasa'. (The Tamil word avvai denotes an old woman -Moodhati -
and in Telugu too, 'avva' means grandmother). Whoever wrote a
kaavyam or Puranam in Sanskrit must have been given the title 'Vyasa'.
This is my understanding.
2. 'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there. All the inscriptions
relating to B.C. were in these languages. Even the language of 'vedas'
differed in form and grammar from the present day sanskrit to a large
extent. Please tell me how many inscriptions of Asoka, Chandragupta
Maurya, Harsha and other north Indian kings were in Sanskrit.
3. I stick to my view that Lord Muruga originated from Tamil land only.
Since it is a vast subject, we will talk about that later.
4. As I have been repeatedly highlighting in all my posts, all brahmins were
not exploiters nor persecutors of the oppressed. But, haven't you heard
many brahmins who were custodians of temple properties siphoned them
off, for personal use? Haven't you seen offsprings of such brahmins
in most of the cases were either physically handicapped or mentally
retarded? (Even 'sandaala' community supposedly came into existence,
because of Brahmin-Lower castes cross) :tape2:
5. Only in Tamilnadu, I have seen the 'Grandham', an admixture of Sanskrit
and Tamil. Sacred texts in Sanskrit were written in 'Grandham' bhasha,
for the brahmins to understand their pronounciation correctly and recite
them properly. Therefore, I do not dispute the existence of puranas and
other sacred texts in Tamilnadu for thousands of years, but I have my
own doubts whether their Sanskrit version existed here from time
immemorial, as observed by you.
Few drops of poison in the brahmin society spoiled the pot-full of nectar!
This is what upset me much.
Regards,
pannvalan
R
Ramaa
Guest
Dear Pannvalan,
I am a big fan of Bharathi not necessarily for the only reasons that you have said. You wish to dismiss the episode in Bharathi movie that I narrated which I think is not to your liking. Have you come across anyone disputing this episode of Bharathi that I have narrated?
I know a couple of grandchildren of Bharathi and I will contact them and verifty and then post what I have learnt.
In your posting addressed to MMji you have said:
Again Grantham is NOT a mixture of Tamil and Sanskrit. It is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam! Grantham borrows lipis from Malayalam to substitute the phonetics missing in Tamil.
Regards,
I am a big fan of Bharathi not necessarily for the only reasons that you have said. You wish to dismiss the episode in Bharathi movie that I narrated which I think is not to your liking. Have you come across anyone disputing this episode of Bharathi that I have narrated?
I know a couple of grandchildren of Bharathi and I will contact them and verifty and then post what I have learnt.
In your posting addressed to MMji you have said:
I don't know where you learnt these so called 'facts' on Sanskrit. Sanskrit and Tamil are two oldest languages that precedes in date to any other languages that you have mentioned.2. 'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there.
Again Grantham is NOT a mixture of Tamil and Sanskrit. It is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam! Grantham borrows lipis from Malayalam to substitute the phonetics missing in Tamil.
Regards,
Last edited:
R
Ramaa
Guest
Dear Pannvalan,
Sorry to say that your Sanskrit teacher is wrong. You can do some research on the web and find out if I am correct or not.through my sanskrit teacher only (in 1980-82)
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Dear Sri Pannvalan
I did not get into an argument with you on Sri Subrahmanya worship. It is possible that the worship of Subrahmanya to the North was taken by Sri Bhagavat Pada Adhi Shankara, when he combined the worship of six Murtis, as many times stated by me earlier. While so, what does it matter if it was from here to there or from there to here? Sri Adhi Shankara had worsipped Subrahmanya in Sanskrit stotras like Subrahmanya Bhujangam. Now we can worship in any language.
But you had stated
Please note that even the western historians have given the date of Sanskrit dating back to as early as 1500 BCE. Though our local account give much more age for both Sanskrit and Tamil.
However, Brahmi's earliest scripts are only as old as 600 BCE. The most found are during 300 BCE, Ahoka's times.
Prakrit is much later. The earliest script found is around 300 BCE.
As to Pali, its palm leaves date back to around 500 CE. The language seems to have been in use since Buddha's times, as the language is close to Magadhi language and is associated with Buddhism. Sinhalese is born from Pali. Budhha's times are assessed as 563 BCE, by one account. Therefore Pali is at least as old as this. There is no records to show that Pali is older than Sanskrit. Even the vedic Sanskrit is accepted as older than 500 BCE.
As to use of the script in the epigraphy of the kings, the kings use the local language. But age of stone inscriptions itself is less than the age of Sanskrit. In other words, only centuries after Sanskrit was in use, the stone inscriptions came in to being. Moreover, every language has gone through much change in its lipi.
Regards
Appaiah
I did not get into an argument with you on Sri Subrahmanya worship. It is possible that the worship of Subrahmanya to the North was taken by Sri Bhagavat Pada Adhi Shankara, when he combined the worship of six Murtis, as many times stated by me earlier. While so, what does it matter if it was from here to there or from there to here? Sri Adhi Shankara had worsipped Subrahmanya in Sanskrit stotras like Subrahmanya Bhujangam. Now we can worship in any language.
But you had stated
2. 'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there. All the inscriptions
relating to B.C. were in these languages. Even the language of 'vedas'
differed in form and grammar from the present day sanskrit to a large
extent. Please tell me how many inscriptions of Asoka, Chandragupta
Maurya, Harsha and other north Indian kings were in Sanskrit.
Please note that even the western historians have given the date of Sanskrit dating back to as early as 1500 BCE. Though our local account give much more age for both Sanskrit and Tamil.
However, Brahmi's earliest scripts are only as old as 600 BCE. The most found are during 300 BCE, Ahoka's times.
Prakrit is much later. The earliest script found is around 300 BCE.
As to Pali, its palm leaves date back to around 500 CE. The language seems to have been in use since Buddha's times, as the language is close to Magadhi language and is associated with Buddhism. Sinhalese is born from Pali. Budhha's times are assessed as 563 BCE, by one account. Therefore Pali is at least as old as this. There is no records to show that Pali is older than Sanskrit. Even the vedic Sanskrit is accepted as older than 500 BCE.
As to use of the script in the epigraphy of the kings, the kings use the local language. But age of stone inscriptions itself is less than the age of Sanskrit. In other words, only centuries after Sanskrit was in use, the stone inscriptions came in to being. Moreover, every language has gone through much change in its lipi.
Regards
Appaiah
R
Ramaa
Guest
The worship of Shiva and Vishnu were most ancient as also the Sun worship as in Sandhya Vandhanam. Adhithya Hridhayam is part of Ramayana which according to our legend is 1.75 million years old. Guhan is mentioned in Ramayana but was certainly a Parivar deity. The worship of Ganesa was far later in the Mahabharatha times. Siva Parivar deity worship is more popular south of the Vindhya mountains. Kali worship is more in vogue in Orissa, Bengal, Assam and the north east as also in Kashmir where she is worshipped as Vaishno Devi and Saradha Devi. Otherwise Rama (worship) rules the entire Bharat from time immemorial which was later joined by Krishna. There are more Saivites in South India than Vaishnavites.
Dear Sri Pannvalan Ji,
Have been reading your posts with interest. I thought I would address two points you have raised:
You have said:
Brahmi is a commonly used script and not a language. Classical Sanskrit after Pannini was written using this script. Prakrit is not a single language. There are many Prakrits, used for common everyday usage by common folks natuarally(as the name indicates, usually a mixture of Classical Sanskrit and the prevailing local spoken language). Pali is a language used by early Buddhists and is a Prakrit.
You have also said:
I agree with you. The following posting here in 2006 by Sri Kaundinyan Ji confirms your point.
Grantha Lipi Is Modified Tamil Script To Write Sanskrit - 09-19-2006, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Hey guys!
Asking dumb questions is my speciality! Just what is 'Grantha Tamil'? I remember reading that many centuries ago Tamil was written in Brahmi script.
I am not being a smartass; but what is the purpose of learning this unless you are a linguist?
Thanks!
Dear Mr.Silverfox,
GRANTHA LIPI is a modified form of Tamil alphabet to write Sanskrit in Tamil. The Sanskrit word "grantham" means a book ( in Tamil a "NOOL"). So grantha script ia a modified form of Tamil script to write Sanskrit granthas. In Tamil many of the alphabets or letters which are found in Sanskrit are missing.For example, there are four letters in 'KA' varga in Sanskrit, namely, KA, KHA, GA & GHA, whereas in Tamil there are only two sounds KA & GA, that too represented only by one letter. So, one cannot correctly pronounce Sanskrit words if they are written in Tamil. For example, the Sanskrit word "GOMATA" (meaning "Mother Cow") is mispronounced as "KO MADHA" in Tamil. So also "SUPRABHATAM" is mispronounced as "SUPRA-PADHAM" in Tamil. So, the Tamil Brahmins devised a new alphabet by modifying the Tamil alphabet incorporating all the Sanskrit letters which are not found in Tamil. They called it Grantha Lipi (script). The Malayalam script is derived from the Grantha script. There are many inscriptions in the Grantha script in temples. There are Grantha inscriptions in the Tirumala temple. Telugu & Kannada Brahmins did not face this problem because their languages (as well as North Indian languages) contain all the alphabets or letters of Sasnskrit.
So, in the past Sanskrit uised to be written in the Grantha script in Tamil Nadu, in Telugu script in Andhra, in Kannada script in Karnataka, in Devanagari script in Hindi areas , Maharashtra & Nepal, and so on. Around the year 1910, an International Sanskrit Conference was held in a European country, in which it was resolved to adopt DEVANAGARI as the common script to write Sanskrit uniformly throughout the world.
DEVANAGARI is the BEST script for writing Sanskrit. It is also the original script of Sanskrit in which Hindi, Marathi & Nepali are also written. Devanagari script , like Tamil & Telugu scripts, evolved over the years & so is a refined script whereas Grantha script is crude, artificial & cumbersome. Nowadays only some old Upadhyayas ("Vadhyars"), Sivacharyas & Bhattacharyas know this script. If one knows Devanagari script, it will be of use throughout India. Learning Grantha script is a waste of time. Nobody knows Grantha script outside Tamil Nadu.
I changed the color above from the original posting for better readability
Pranams,
KRS
Have been reading your posts with interest. I thought I would address two points you have raised:
You have said:
'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there. All the inscriptions
relating to B.C. were in these languages. Even the language of 'vedas'
differed in form and grammar from the present day sanskrit to a large
extent. Please tell me how many inscriptions of Asoka, Chandragupta
Maurya, Harsha and other north Indian kings were in Sanskrit.
Brahmi is a commonly used script and not a language. Classical Sanskrit after Pannini was written using this script. Prakrit is not a single language. There are many Prakrits, used for common everyday usage by common folks natuarally(as the name indicates, usually a mixture of Classical Sanskrit and the prevailing local spoken language). Pali is a language used by early Buddhists and is a Prakrit.
You have also said:
Only in Tamilnadu, I have seen the 'Grandham', an admixture of Sanskrit
and Tamil. Sacred texts in Sanskrit were written in 'Grandham' bhasha,
for the brahmins to understand their pronounciation correctly and recite
them properly
I agree with you. The following posting here in 2006 by Sri Kaundinyan Ji confirms your point.
Grantha Lipi Is Modified Tamil Script To Write Sanskrit - 09-19-2006, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Hey guys!
Asking dumb questions is my speciality! Just what is 'Grantha Tamil'? I remember reading that many centuries ago Tamil was written in Brahmi script.
I am not being a smartass; but what is the purpose of learning this unless you are a linguist?
Thanks!
Dear Mr.Silverfox,
GRANTHA LIPI is a modified form of Tamil alphabet to write Sanskrit in Tamil. The Sanskrit word "grantham" means a book ( in Tamil a "NOOL"). So grantha script ia a modified form of Tamil script to write Sanskrit granthas. In Tamil many of the alphabets or letters which are found in Sanskrit are missing.For example, there are four letters in 'KA' varga in Sanskrit, namely, KA, KHA, GA & GHA, whereas in Tamil there are only two sounds KA & GA, that too represented only by one letter. So, one cannot correctly pronounce Sanskrit words if they are written in Tamil. For example, the Sanskrit word "GOMATA" (meaning "Mother Cow") is mispronounced as "KO MADHA" in Tamil. So also "SUPRABHATAM" is mispronounced as "SUPRA-PADHAM" in Tamil. So, the Tamil Brahmins devised a new alphabet by modifying the Tamil alphabet incorporating all the Sanskrit letters which are not found in Tamil. They called it Grantha Lipi (script). The Malayalam script is derived from the Grantha script. There are many inscriptions in the Grantha script in temples. There are Grantha inscriptions in the Tirumala temple. Telugu & Kannada Brahmins did not face this problem because their languages (as well as North Indian languages) contain all the alphabets or letters of Sasnskrit.
So, in the past Sanskrit uised to be written in the Grantha script in Tamil Nadu, in Telugu script in Andhra, in Kannada script in Karnataka, in Devanagari script in Hindi areas , Maharashtra & Nepal, and so on. Around the year 1910, an International Sanskrit Conference was held in a European country, in which it was resolved to adopt DEVANAGARI as the common script to write Sanskrit uniformly throughout the world.
DEVANAGARI is the BEST script for writing Sanskrit. It is also the original script of Sanskrit in which Hindi, Marathi & Nepali are also written. Devanagari script , like Tamil & Telugu scripts, evolved over the years & so is a refined script whereas Grantha script is crude, artificial & cumbersome. Nowadays only some old Upadhyayas ("Vadhyars"), Sivacharyas & Bhattacharyas know this script. If one knows Devanagari script, it will be of use throughout India. Learning Grantha script is a waste of time. Nobody knows Grantha script outside Tamil Nadu.
I changed the color above from the original posting for better readability
Pranams,
KRS
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Pannvalan!
A language is one thing , script in written form is another thing, Sanskrit language use many scipts, one such script is Grantha others are - Brahmi,Devanagari , even all the scripts like kannada,malayala,telugu etc.... Sanskrit is written.
In tamil - there are no extra alphabets available for the "51" Sanskrit Aksharas , So Granta Libi (script) is introduced to fill the gap.
Samskritam - means refined, Prakritam (prakrit) means naturally spoken language by the people of the land. - One is called "Pitru" Bhasha other is called "Mathru" Bhasha. While Samskritam belongs to many land and not to one particular country the "Prakritam" varies in different land. The very word Prakritam - meaning the unrefined natural shakti - Samskritam mean the refined one. To give a simile (not a close one) it is like the difference between Crude-oil and refined oil. Tamil as Prakritam is much much refined than any other language that is the beauty of Tamil.
As far Sage Veda Vyasa - only one Vyasa - compiled all the Puranas and the Vedas which were in the form of "KEERAVANI". As far the word "Iti Ha Asa" Mahabharata - how it came about is a legend well known. It was written by "Lord Ganesha" as dictated by "Sage Vyasa". The condition by the God is he can't wait for the couplet to come out it should be spontaneous, Sage agreed and put a counter condition that the God should understand the full meaning of the sloka before he proceed to write the next one.
There are no. of sloka which gave many meaning at intervals, before the God could grasp all the meaning, The Sage complied many more slokas. These slokas are called "Baratha kuttu" - Are you aware of all these?
Regards
A language is one thing , script in written form is another thing, Sanskrit language use many scipts, one such script is Grantha others are - Brahmi,Devanagari , even all the scripts like kannada,malayala,telugu etc.... Sanskrit is written.
In tamil - there are no extra alphabets available for the "51" Sanskrit Aksharas , So Granta Libi (script) is introduced to fill the gap.
Samskritam - means refined, Prakritam (prakrit) means naturally spoken language by the people of the land. - One is called "Pitru" Bhasha other is called "Mathru" Bhasha. While Samskritam belongs to many land and not to one particular country the "Prakritam" varies in different land. The very word Prakritam - meaning the unrefined natural shakti - Samskritam mean the refined one. To give a simile (not a close one) it is like the difference between Crude-oil and refined oil. Tamil as Prakritam is much much refined than any other language that is the beauty of Tamil.
As far Sage Veda Vyasa - only one Vyasa - compiled all the Puranas and the Vedas which were in the form of "KEERAVANI". As far the word "Iti Ha Asa" Mahabharata - how it came about is a legend well known. It was written by "Lord Ganesha" as dictated by "Sage Vyasa". The condition by the God is he can't wait for the couplet to come out it should be spontaneous, Sage agreed and put a counter condition that the God should understand the full meaning of the sloka before he proceed to write the next one.
There are no. of sloka which gave many meaning at intervals, before the God could grasp all the meaning, The Sage complied many more slokas. These slokas are called "Baratha kuttu" - Are you aware of all these?
Regards
Last edited by a moderator:
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Pannvalan,
See my replies ....
See my replies ....
Dear Sri Malgova,
I enjoyed your reply. As per your wish, I supplement what I had written already.
1. Like many 'avvaiyars' in Tamil history, there could have been more than
one 'Vyasa'. (The Tamil word avvai denotes an old woman -Moodhati -
and in Telugu too, 'avva' means grandmother). Whoever wrote a
kaavyam or Puranam in Sanskrit must have been given the title 'Vyasa'.
This is my understanding.
It is my understanding all the Puranas and the Itihasa - Mahabharata were from Sage Veda Vyasa - Denoting only one Seer - Am I wrong?
And as far another Itihaasa- "Ramayana" is from Sage Valmiki - Only one seer.
As far the Kavyams - Kalidasa, Bana are well known in Samskritam and Kambar is well known in Tamil - but each kavyams have their own only author.
Eventhough "avvaiyar" is a generic name much like "Rama" and "Krishna" we understand who it was meant as in the subjective context.
Do you meant to say there are many avvaiyars who wrote "ATTHU CHUDI" , "KONRAI VENDAN" etc.. Even it that is the case , Is not the content more important than the author?
Even if let's say there could be many "Vyasa" compiled the Puranas - Does it mean the "Skanda Purana" could be ignored?
2. 'Sanskrit' means refined script. Before the advent of Sanskrit, only
languages like 'Prakrit', 'Bali' and 'Brahmi' were there. All the inscriptions
relating to B.C. were in these languages. Even the language of 'vedas'
differed in form and grammar from the present day sanskrit to a large
extent. Please tell me how many inscriptions of Asoka, Chandragupta
Maurya, Harsha and other north Indian kings were in Sanskrit.
I've addressed in my previous post - The kings choosed Prakritam what's wrong with it?
You have rightly said the Vedic Laguage differs from Samskritam, it meant to be like that, It is Ishvara's language. Not born out of any human intellect. So that nobody can fool around compiling his own composition and saying this is from GOD as other people do. To make it foolproof , the Vedic language - "CHANDAS" - "Yappu Illakkanam" have to be different and intelligeble only to a learned Pandit. That's why Pandits are revered. It is like a seal.
3. I stick to my view that Lord Muruga originated from Tamil land only.
Since it is a vast subject, we will talk about that later.
I just let you know the common view - Lord Muruga originated from Lord Shiva. - Skanda Puranam tells this , Sage Arunagirinathar, also confirms this in Tamil - "THIRUPUGAZHH" - Our co-poster in the forum SRI RAMA has posted the sloka also.
Are you going to tell that Lord Shiva is in Tamil country at that time. That would be interesting .
4. As I have been repeatedly highlighting in all my posts, all brahmins were
not exploiters nor persecutors of the oppressed. But, haven't you heard
many brahmins who were custodians of temple properties siphoned them
off, for personal use? Haven't you seen offsprings of such brahmins
in most of the cases were either physically handicapped or mentally
retarded? (Even 'sandaala' community supposedly came into existence,
because of Brahmin-Lower castes cross) :tape2:
I've already addressed this , this mixture of papa and punya exist everywhere. The other castes are openly doing this . Even the famous temples festivals and nitya puja have came to near halt now for want of funds and human resources. Even the Temple pond is openly contracted out for fishing. Don't you see all these? What we have done about it.?
There are structural issues and peripheral issues, if a brahmin mis-used the temple land he can and should be punished. You are talking about fringe cases. I'm talking about structural issues.
5. Only in Tamilnadu, I have seen the 'Grandham', an admixture of Sanskrit
and Tamil. Sacred texts in Sanskrit were written in 'Grandham' bhasha,
for the brahmins to understand their pronounciation correctly and recite
them properly. Therefore, I do not dispute the existence of puranas and
other sacred texts in Tamilnadu for thousands of years, but I have my
own doubts whether their Sanskrit version existed here from time
immemorial, as observed by you.
I don't know whether it is going to clear your conceptions, let me give a try...
In Shiva Purana, after the Pralaya or dissolution the Shristi starts with Akhshara - Swarupam - The 51 Aksharas of , here the sound (samskrita shabdam ) (not the script) are the first one to appear and later all manifestation came about. If you meditate on the 51 syllable sounds with proper initiation and attitude , you would understand it.
Shabda mandalam a property of Akasha, which comes first , then comes air, next comes the fire etc..... So Samskritam is "grandfather" to even Brahma, Because Siva puranam says the Bramha when first saw , he saw Shiva as "Akshara Swarupa".
Few drops of poison in the brahmin society spoiled the pot-full of nectar!
This is what upset me much.
My humble request, what is the point in blaming only? See the current government is bent upon bringing destruction to our culture, if we don't band together and resist this destruction , we may lose forever. Please consider.....
Regards,
Regards,
pannvalan
Last edited by a moderator:
Dear Sri Malgova Mango
In Tamil literature, the "Aimperum KaappiyangaL" are Silappathikaram, Manimekalai, Jeevaka Sintamani, Valiyapati and Kundalakesi. All these are of the period around 200 BCE to 200 CE.
Kamba Ramayanam is of the period 12th Century CE. It is not accorded the level of a Kappiyam because it is considered a remake (thazuviyathu) from Valmiki Ramayanam.
You had stated:
Kindly note that worship of Lord Shiva is as "anaadhi" as Lord Shiva Himself is.
The oldest Sivalingam in the Deccan Region (South India) is located in a temple in village called "Gudimallam" 12kms from Renigunta in present day Andhra Pradesh (the erstwhile Tamil country). The Lingam is very beautiful and is shining in hand polished (smoothly) pitch black granite. The murti is about six feet tall. The tri-murtis are engraved in the lingam. The small temple is in the control of Archeological Survey of India. There is no pooja offered there, though. The place was well protected when I visited about 15 years ago. The ASI has estimated the age as about 2500 years (that is 500 BCE), while historians have given only 1500 BCE to Sanskrit (I dispute this age, though)
Siva worship was prevelant in the Indus Valley civilisation (2300 BCE) and archeological evidence is available.
Shiva was worshipped in Lemuria (the continent that is now under Sea - as 'anaadhi' as Lrod Shiva) known as Kumari Kandam. The dravidians moved from Lemuria to present day deccan plateau. I keep telling my "dravidian" friends, if Aryan came from North, the dravidians came from South. Therefore both don't belong here! They find it difficult to digest because their pride doesnot allow them to refuse to be part of the Lemurian heritage!
Shiva was worshipped very much here at least as much as in Indus valley. Which one was earlier cannot be said at all.
Regards
Appaiah
In Tamil literature, the "Aimperum KaappiyangaL" are Silappathikaram, Manimekalai, Jeevaka Sintamani, Valiyapati and Kundalakesi. All these are of the period around 200 BCE to 200 CE.
Kamba Ramayanam is of the period 12th Century CE. It is not accorded the level of a Kappiyam because it is considered a remake (thazuviyathu) from Valmiki Ramayanam.
You had stated:
Are you going to tell that Lord Shiva is in Tamil country at that time. That would be interesting .
Kindly note that worship of Lord Shiva is as "anaadhi" as Lord Shiva Himself is.
The oldest Sivalingam in the Deccan Region (South India) is located in a temple in village called "Gudimallam" 12kms from Renigunta in present day Andhra Pradesh (the erstwhile Tamil country). The Lingam is very beautiful and is shining in hand polished (smoothly) pitch black granite. The murti is about six feet tall. The tri-murtis are engraved in the lingam. The small temple is in the control of Archeological Survey of India. There is no pooja offered there, though. The place was well protected when I visited about 15 years ago. The ASI has estimated the age as about 2500 years (that is 500 BCE), while historians have given only 1500 BCE to Sanskrit (I dispute this age, though)
Siva worship was prevelant in the Indus Valley civilisation (2300 BCE) and archeological evidence is available.
Shiva was worshipped in Lemuria (the continent that is now under Sea - as 'anaadhi' as Lrod Shiva) known as Kumari Kandam. The dravidians moved from Lemuria to present day deccan plateau. I keep telling my "dravidian" friends, if Aryan came from North, the dravidians came from South. Therefore both don't belong here! They find it difficult to digest because their pride doesnot allow them to refuse to be part of the Lemurian heritage!
Shiva was worshipped very much here at least as much as in Indus valley. Which one was earlier cannot be said at all.
Regards
Appaiah
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M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Appaiah!
Thanks for your scholarly guidance.
What's nagging me is , why the archelolgical science doesn't accept our Puranas or time as mentioned in Vedas as anadi? Do they question the intelligence of Vedas and our scripture.?
As far Aryan, the term means - noble in samskritam, it is clearly used as an adjective given to some people for their character. To me a Dravidian can also become an Aryan.
I'm not clear how "Aryan" could be a noun - denoting a race. Could you explain?
Regards
Thanks for your scholarly guidance.
What's nagging me is , why the archelolgical science doesn't accept our Puranas or time as mentioned in Vedas as anadi? Do they question the intelligence of Vedas and our scripture.?
As far Aryan, the term means - noble in samskritam, it is clearly used as an adjective given to some people for their character. To me a Dravidian can also become an Aryan.
I'm not clear how "Aryan" could be a noun - denoting a race. Could you explain?
Regards
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Appaiah!
As fas as I know, Kavvya is "Kanthal Samhita" it should be in line with Vedic Spirit, meaning, it should emphasis - "Matru, Pitru, Acharya, Attiti Bhakti". It should also talk about God as mentioned in Vedanta . In short it is like Veda but told in the style of " Kanthal" or wife.
Kamba Ramayana fits all the above. As it is revealed to Valmiki in Sanskrit, so it is also revealed to Kambar in Tamil, he didn't translate word by word. That may be the reason for some difference in content between both.
In his seat of concentration we don't know Ramayana of which time is revealed, as there are many kalpas and history repeats itself, may not be exactly but with little difference. That's why we have this "Pata Bhedhas".
How the other 5 can be termed as Kappiayam is unknown to me. Could you explain?
Regards,
As fas as I know, Kavvya is "Kanthal Samhita" it should be in line with Vedic Spirit, meaning, it should emphasis - "Matru, Pitru, Acharya, Attiti Bhakti". It should also talk about God as mentioned in Vedanta . In short it is like Veda but told in the style of " Kanthal" or wife.
Kamba Ramayana fits all the above. As it is revealed to Valmiki in Sanskrit, so it is also revealed to Kambar in Tamil, he didn't translate word by word. That may be the reason for some difference in content between both.
In his seat of concentration we don't know Ramayana of which time is revealed, as there are many kalpas and history repeats itself, may not be exactly but with little difference. That's why we have this "Pata Bhedhas".
How the other 5 can be termed as Kappiayam is unknown to me. Could you explain?
Regards,
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Another interesting news about Kambar...
You all might have known about his son Ambhigapathy and his love with King's daughter Amaravathi, you might have known how it failed too.
The King orderd to cut his son head-off. So Kambar cursed the Chola Vamsa's decline. The rest is History. Kavi vakku Poikkathu.
You all might have known about his son Ambhigapathy and his love with King's daughter Amaravathi, you might have known how it failed too.
The King orderd to cut his son head-off. So Kambar cursed the Chola Vamsa's decline. The rest is History. Kavi vakku Poikkathu.
Dear Sri Appaiah ji,
'Dravidians' moving to South India from 'Lemuria' is definitely one plausible theory. But some archealogical evidence recently unearthed in TN perhaps lends more credence to the theory that these people settled in South India from Africa (when perhaps there was no sea in between) during the cataclismic ice age when the dinosaurs suddenly disappeared.
There are other theories as well.
Unfortunately unless such theories are proved by evidence, utilizing the modern techniques, one can not be beholden to any one theory.
To me, all Indians today are Indians. They are not Aryans, Dravidians, Iranians, Arabs, Semetic, Chinese or whatever. The fusion has taken place and these questions that bob up again and again as to Aryans versus Dravidians are profitless. By every account Tamil is a great language. So is Sanskrit. But then a Bengali would say that his language is also great. I think there are no ends to such discussions.
This is why we can not base our knowledge about historicity purely on all Hindu literature. This is why, Puranas and Itihasas are not part of the Srutis. Our Rishis knew that the Puranas and Itihasas were developed for the common masses and so a few rules were bent. For example, Vishnu Puranam certainly looks at Lord Shiva as 'inferior' to Lord Vishnu while the Shiva Puranam does exactly the opposite. Someone has labeled Vishnu Purana as 'Sattvic' and Shiva Purana as 'Tamasic' (just for example, I do not want to get in to discussions of Guna here). If one believes that Mahabaratha is also part of Vedas, then one can interpret Gita saying that Varna is by birth but then in another part where a spirit kills all four brothers only to ask Dharmaputra to answer many questions, and lo and presto, one of the questions clearly elicits the 'right' answer that Varna (at least a Brahmin) is not by birth. So, which part is right?
Such debatable points abound in our scriptures. While one may say that a Guru can resolve these contradictions, the fact remains that there a distinct possibility that they are resolved differently, depending on the 'quality' of a Guru.
Vyasa literally means a 'compiler'. So how many Vyasa were there? I believe that there was one Veda Vyasa who compiled the Vedas. The others who wrote the Puranas and the Mahabaratha can only be the original one if he is a Chranjeevi. Could this be true? Of course! But what is the probability? Given that the puranas vary in style and content greatly and there were centuries between the compilation of the Vedas and Itihasas, it would be rational to surmise that there were many Vyasas, especially given the meaning of the word as 'compiler'. Does this diminish our scriptures any? Not at all.
This is why we need to discriminate between what is inviolable with what was just written for the times.
Brahmins were never the first cause of any deterioration of our culture over time. But we were the custodians of the culture and the well being of the Hindu society. In that respect, I would say that our fore fathers opted for survival rather than annihilation. Is that bad? I salute them for their courage to change and adapt. And we are no different today. If we do not find a new identity as a group to live in today's world, given all it's pitfalls and horrors, we will be wiped off in a New York minute.
The 'barber' in your story is the barber I knew from my young age. I still remember him, where he lived. Unless we as a social group can remove the hurt and feelings that were created by this 'theetu' and 'suddham', we will forever be a non loved community. Somewhere along the way we forgot that 'theetu' and 'suddham' were voluntary on the part of those who believed that they were 'violating' some code. But such codes have been gone for a long time. We insist upon those protocals, but the majority of the NBs do not respect them anymore except for in some places (like temples).
It would be interesting in this context to analyze why Buddhism and Jainism came about. What philosophy in them attracted so many Hindus at those times?
Sorry for the rambling.
Pranams,
KRS
'Dravidians' moving to South India from 'Lemuria' is definitely one plausible theory. But some archealogical evidence recently unearthed in TN perhaps lends more credence to the theory that these people settled in South India from Africa (when perhaps there was no sea in between) during the cataclismic ice age when the dinosaurs suddenly disappeared.
There are other theories as well.
Unfortunately unless such theories are proved by evidence, utilizing the modern techniques, one can not be beholden to any one theory.
To me, all Indians today are Indians. They are not Aryans, Dravidians, Iranians, Arabs, Semetic, Chinese or whatever. The fusion has taken place and these questions that bob up again and again as to Aryans versus Dravidians are profitless. By every account Tamil is a great language. So is Sanskrit. But then a Bengali would say that his language is also great. I think there are no ends to such discussions.
This is why we can not base our knowledge about historicity purely on all Hindu literature. This is why, Puranas and Itihasas are not part of the Srutis. Our Rishis knew that the Puranas and Itihasas were developed for the common masses and so a few rules were bent. For example, Vishnu Puranam certainly looks at Lord Shiva as 'inferior' to Lord Vishnu while the Shiva Puranam does exactly the opposite. Someone has labeled Vishnu Purana as 'Sattvic' and Shiva Purana as 'Tamasic' (just for example, I do not want to get in to discussions of Guna here). If one believes that Mahabaratha is also part of Vedas, then one can interpret Gita saying that Varna is by birth but then in another part where a spirit kills all four brothers only to ask Dharmaputra to answer many questions, and lo and presto, one of the questions clearly elicits the 'right' answer that Varna (at least a Brahmin) is not by birth. So, which part is right?
Such debatable points abound in our scriptures. While one may say that a Guru can resolve these contradictions, the fact remains that there a distinct possibility that they are resolved differently, depending on the 'quality' of a Guru.
Vyasa literally means a 'compiler'. So how many Vyasa were there? I believe that there was one Veda Vyasa who compiled the Vedas. The others who wrote the Puranas and the Mahabaratha can only be the original one if he is a Chranjeevi. Could this be true? Of course! But what is the probability? Given that the puranas vary in style and content greatly and there were centuries between the compilation of the Vedas and Itihasas, it would be rational to surmise that there were many Vyasas, especially given the meaning of the word as 'compiler'. Does this diminish our scriptures any? Not at all.
This is why we need to discriminate between what is inviolable with what was just written for the times.
Brahmins were never the first cause of any deterioration of our culture over time. But we were the custodians of the culture and the well being of the Hindu society. In that respect, I would say that our fore fathers opted for survival rather than annihilation. Is that bad? I salute them for their courage to change and adapt. And we are no different today. If we do not find a new identity as a group to live in today's world, given all it's pitfalls and horrors, we will be wiped off in a New York minute.
The 'barber' in your story is the barber I knew from my young age. I still remember him, where he lived. Unless we as a social group can remove the hurt and feelings that were created by this 'theetu' and 'suddham', we will forever be a non loved community. Somewhere along the way we forgot that 'theetu' and 'suddham' were voluntary on the part of those who believed that they were 'violating' some code. But such codes have been gone for a long time. We insist upon those protocals, but the majority of the NBs do not respect them anymore except for in some places (like temples).
It would be interesting in this context to analyze why Buddhism and Jainism came about. What philosophy in them attracted so many Hindus at those times?
Sorry for the rambling.
Pranams,
KRS
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Readers!
Mahabharata contains Vishnu Sahasranama ....
In the salutory verse of Vishnu Sahasranama - The lineage of Sage Vyasa is told , leaving no doubt on the identity of Sage Vyasa. There can't be many Vyasas having the same lineage.
I too have read , "Yaksha Prashnam" nowhere it is said the "jati" is not important ...
Regards,
Mahabharata contains Vishnu Sahasranama ....
In the salutory verse of Vishnu Sahasranama - The lineage of Sage Vyasa is told , leaving no doubt on the identity of Sage Vyasa. There can't be many Vyasas having the same lineage.
I too have read , "Yaksha Prashnam" nowhere it is said the "jati" is not important ...
Regards,
R
Ramaa
Guest
In Vishnusahasranamam the lineage of Vyasa is clearly given.
SakthE pauthra (The Sage Sakthi's grandson)
Paraasaraathmajam (born of Sage Paraasara)
Sukha thaatham (father of the great sage Sukha)
SakthE pauthra (The Sage Sakthi's grandson)
Paraasaraathmajam (born of Sage Paraasara)
Sukha thaatham (father of the great sage Sukha)
Dear Sri Malgova Mango
I still remember the darshan of the Shiva linga in the Gudimallam temple. I had seen such pitch black granite pillar in Simhachalam Ugra Narashimha temple near Vishakapatnam. The visit to Gudimallam temple was an accidental one. while passing by some one told me that there is an old temple somewhere interior. Out of interest to see temples whenever I am on travel, I went there and saw this beautiful sivalingam and the ASI boards there gave the history. I always considered that as a Bhagyam. Whenever I used to go to Tirupati thereafter, someone or the other was always with me and I would always suggest that we take a detour and go there. There had been no inclination to my fellow traveller(s) to venture into unknown off shoots. I did not get a second chance to visit. Undoubtedly, Lord Shiva has to bless for us to have His darshan.
As to archeology and antiquity of vedas, the historians deduce the history based on archeological findings in the form of stone inscriptions, pottery, buildings, palm leaf and such material objects. It is my faith that Shiva worship is annadi and no archeologist or historian would so declare. Therefore no historian would even say that the vedas are 'anaadi'. For him the earliest object in relation to the subject is the piece of evidence and he will deduce his conclusions from that alone.
Regards
Appaiah
I still remember the darshan of the Shiva linga in the Gudimallam temple. I had seen such pitch black granite pillar in Simhachalam Ugra Narashimha temple near Vishakapatnam. The visit to Gudimallam temple was an accidental one. while passing by some one told me that there is an old temple somewhere interior. Out of interest to see temples whenever I am on travel, I went there and saw this beautiful sivalingam and the ASI boards there gave the history. I always considered that as a Bhagyam. Whenever I used to go to Tirupati thereafter, someone or the other was always with me and I would always suggest that we take a detour and go there. There had been no inclination to my fellow traveller(s) to venture into unknown off shoots. I did not get a second chance to visit. Undoubtedly, Lord Shiva has to bless for us to have His darshan.
As to archeology and antiquity of vedas, the historians deduce the history based on archeological findings in the form of stone inscriptions, pottery, buildings, palm leaf and such material objects. It is my faith that Shiva worship is annadi and no archeologist or historian would so declare. Therefore no historian would even say that the vedas are 'anaadi'. For him the earliest object in relation to the subject is the piece of evidence and he will deduce his conclusions from that alone.
Regards
Appaiah
Dear Sri Malgova mango
As to your comment:
World over, epic is understood to be an original, primary and long literary work in the form of poetry, describing the events or deeds of heroic, historic, cultural happening or events. It is a revered piece of literature in that, such reverence may be due to the heroic or hoary deeds of the participating characters in the epic. But there seems to be no mention that it should talk about vedas or that it should be in the style as you say. If that be the case, there would be no epic in other Nations as they dont subscribe to our vedas.
The Tamil literature has recognised "Aimperum Kappiangal" as I had listed. As earlier stated, the Kamba Ramayana not being the original work (as it is a thazuval of Valmiki Ramayana) did not qualify to be in the list of epics.
Regards
Appaiah
As to your comment:
As fas as I know, Kavvya is "Kanthal Samhita" it should be in line with Vedic Spirit, meaning, it should emphasis - "Matru, Pitru, Acharya, Attiti Bhakti". It should also talk about God as mentioned in Vedanta . In short it is like Veda but told in the style of " Kanthal" or wife
World over, epic is understood to be an original, primary and long literary work in the form of poetry, describing the events or deeds of heroic, historic, cultural happening or events. It is a revered piece of literature in that, such reverence may be due to the heroic or hoary deeds of the participating characters in the epic. But there seems to be no mention that it should talk about vedas or that it should be in the style as you say. If that be the case, there would be no epic in other Nations as they dont subscribe to our vedas.
The Tamil literature has recognised "Aimperum Kappiangal" as I had listed. As earlier stated, the Kamba Ramayana not being the original work (as it is a thazuval of Valmiki Ramayana) did not qualify to be in the list of epics.
Regards
Appaiah
Dear Sri KRS
You are right. The original lemuria was a large land mass combining the present Africa and India. The old tribes in some parts of TN, Andhra and Andamans bear similarity to some old tribes in Africa, has been established by anthropologists.
There have been many interpolations in Puranas, due to which the conflicting views highlighted by you have come up. Zealots have caused such havoc from time to time, with short-sightedness. they never thought that in posterity all the passing phases will wane and only sathyam will sustain and survive. Even the Manu shastra seems to have been so interpolated. As of now, Manu shastra is the most misquoted and misinterpreted shastra. Therefore it would be sae and advisable as you say to take them as guidance and frame our activiities based on the forever sathyam - advaita or dvaita or visishtadvaita as has been given to us by our respective forefathers in the family tradition. Anything that doesnot fall in line with our family tenet (one of the above three philosophies) may be given up and those in consonance with the tenet may be followed with all sincerity and devotion. That is the one that will give lasting peace.
By the by, I never though that you hail from the undivided Thanjavur District. You say that you know the barber that I had referred in the incident. Are you from that area?
Regards
Appaiah
You are right. The original lemuria was a large land mass combining the present Africa and India. The old tribes in some parts of TN, Andhra and Andamans bear similarity to some old tribes in Africa, has been established by anthropologists.
There have been many interpolations in Puranas, due to which the conflicting views highlighted by you have come up. Zealots have caused such havoc from time to time, with short-sightedness. they never thought that in posterity all the passing phases will wane and only sathyam will sustain and survive. Even the Manu shastra seems to have been so interpolated. As of now, Manu shastra is the most misquoted and misinterpreted shastra. Therefore it would be sae and advisable as you say to take them as guidance and frame our activiities based on the forever sathyam - advaita or dvaita or visishtadvaita as has been given to us by our respective forefathers in the family tradition. Anything that doesnot fall in line with our family tenet (one of the above three philosophies) may be given up and those in consonance with the tenet may be followed with all sincerity and devotion. That is the one that will give lasting peace.
By the by, I never though that you hail from the undivided Thanjavur District. You say that you know the barber that I had referred in the incident. Are you from that area?
Regards
Appaiah
R
Ramaa
Guest
Dear Appaiahji,
According to geologists India was once attached to Africa and it broke away and slowly moved towards Asia. When it smashed with the Asian continent there arose this huge mountain which is the Himalayas. Geologically Himalayas is the youngest mountain range.
Regards,
According to geologists India was once attached to Africa and it broke away and slowly moved towards Asia. When it smashed with the Asian continent there arose this huge mountain which is the Himalayas. Geologically Himalayas is the youngest mountain range.
Regards,
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Ramaa!
Vyasam Vashista Naptharam - Great grandson of Sage Vashista.
The adjectives used are : -
Thapo Nidhim
Vyasaya Vishnu Rupaya, Vyasa Rupaya Vishnave
Brahma Nidhaye
Vashistaya - meaning belonging to the lineage of Vashishta
Vyasam Vashista Naptharam - Great grandson of Sage Vashista.
The adjectives used are : -
Thapo Nidhim
Vyasaya Vishnu Rupaya, Vyasa Rupaya Vishnave
Brahma Nidhaye
Vashistaya - meaning belonging to the lineage of Vashishta
In Vishnusahasranamam the lineage of Vyasa is clearly given.
SakthE pauthra (The Sage Sakthi's grandson)
Paraasaraathmajam (born of Sage Paraasara)
Sukha thaatham (father of the great sage Sukha)
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Appaiah!
I couldn't understand why you are narrating your personal experience....
As far the archeology, thanks for the clarification...
Do the modern Historians, conclude facts based only on archeology?
See our scriptures are our guide for our culture for many centuries....
The language in which it is told and what is told is not born out of mere human intellect. The "chandas " of the language is a highly developed one. Every word is counted and not one word or a syllable is more or less. In other words "Sankopangama" it is said.
What is said and How it is said displays a very high form of intelligence. Why and what is the reason for modern historians to ignore this intelligence.
Why the modern Historians do not want to take that into the account.?
Puranas are not just hearsay.... It follows a very strict composition, not a word more or less can be said. Exact count of words for each major Puranas are told. I'm trying to get the exact number of words for each Puranas.
Regards
I couldn't understand why you are narrating your personal experience....
As far the archeology, thanks for the clarification...
Do the modern Historians, conclude facts based only on archeology?
See our scriptures are our guide for our culture for many centuries....
The language in which it is told and what is told is not born out of mere human intellect. The "chandas " of the language is a highly developed one. Every word is counted and not one word or a syllable is more or less. In other words "Sankopangama" it is said.
What is said and How it is said displays a very high form of intelligence. Why and what is the reason for modern historians to ignore this intelligence.
Why the modern Historians do not want to take that into the account.?
Puranas are not just hearsay.... It follows a very strict composition, not a word more or less can be said. Exact count of words for each major Puranas are told. I'm trying to get the exact number of words for each Puranas.
Regards
Dear Sri Malgova Mango
I still remember the darshan of the Shiva linga in the Gudimallam temple. I had seen such pitch black granite pillar in Simhachalam Ugra Narashimha temple near Vishakapatnam. The visit to Gudimallam temple was an accidental one. while passing by some one told me that there is an old temple somewhere interior. Out of interest to see temples whenever I am on travel, I went there and saw this beautiful sivalingam and the ASI boards there gave the history. I always considered that as a Bhagyam. Whenever I used to go to Tirupati thereafter, someone or the other was always with me and I would always suggest that we take a detour and go there. There had been no inclination to my fellow traveller(s) to venture into unknown off shoots. I did not get a second chance to visit. Undoubtedly, Lord Shiva has to bless for us to have His darshan.
As to archeology and antiquity of vedas, the historians deduce the history based on archeological findings in the form of stone inscriptions, pottery, buildings, palm leaf and such material objects. It is my faith that Shiva worship is annadi and no archeologist or historian would so declare. Therefore no historian would even say that the vedas are 'anaadi'. For him the earliest object in relation to the subject is the piece of evidence and he will deduce his conclusions from that alone.
Regards
Appaiah
Last edited by a moderator:
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Dear Sri Appaiah!
Thanks for your clarifications.....
You might have known the might of Kamban, " Kavi Chakravarty" - King of Kings, It is a pity that His work is not considered as Kavyam by our Government.
May be it didn't go well with their secular philosophy...
Thanks for your clarifications.....
You might have known the might of Kamban, " Kavi Chakravarty" - King of Kings, It is a pity that His work is not considered as Kavyam by our Government.
May be it didn't go well with their secular philosophy...
Dear Sri Malgova mango
As to your comment:
World over, epic is understood to be an original, primary and long literary work in the form of poetry, describing the events or deeds of heroic, historic, cultural happening or events. It is a revered piece of literature in that, such reverence may be due to the heroic or hoary deeds of the participating characters in the epic. But there seems to be no mention that it should talk about vedas or that it should be in the style as you say. If that be the case, there would be no epic in other Nations as they dont subscribe to our vedas.
The Tamil literature has recognised "Aimperum Kappiangal" as I had listed. As earlier stated, the Kamba Ramayana not being the original work (as it is a thazuval of Valmiki Ramayana) did not qualify to be in the list of epics.
Regards
Appaiah
Last edited by a moderator:
M
malgova.mango
Guest
Just few words on Dharshana....
There is no necessity to stick to one's Dharshana based on the family. As we mature we see the logic of each dharshana and assimilate accordingly. Even if one born in Advaita family doesn't mean he can assimilate Advaita Dharshana , he must grow and mature to assimilate it. It is a process not a birth right or a previlage.
That's why Dharma or Order or the way of life is very important, because only by that any jiva grow and mature. Without the plant there is no cucumber to talk about.
If someone gains and could assimilate the view of Advaita, without following the order in the current life, it is because of the previous Janmanthra Tapas of that jiva, It takes many Janmanthra for any other ordinary jiva to assimilate the views of Advaita.
Saints like Sri Ramana Maharishi, Mahaperieva, Alangudi Swamigal .... cared about the plant, and they spent there life-time to nourish the plant.
Regards,
There is no necessity to stick to one's Dharshana based on the family. As we mature we see the logic of each dharshana and assimilate accordingly. Even if one born in Advaita family doesn't mean he can assimilate Advaita Dharshana , he must grow and mature to assimilate it. It is a process not a birth right or a previlage.
That's why Dharma or Order or the way of life is very important, because only by that any jiva grow and mature. Without the plant there is no cucumber to talk about.
If someone gains and could assimilate the view of Advaita, without following the order in the current life, it is because of the previous Janmanthra Tapas of that jiva, It takes many Janmanthra for any other ordinary jiva to assimilate the views of Advaita.
Saints like Sri Ramana Maharishi, Mahaperieva, Alangudi Swamigal .... cared about the plant, and they spent there life-time to nourish the plant.
Regards,
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