Changing Times: Will Gay Marriage Be Legal in India?

[Brahin]

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I dont know much about this Mataji. So I apologize for what I am about to say in advance. But let me take the liberty to make a general statement

- These days the self-made Babaji and samiyars and Matajis govern greater credibility among the masses than educated Scientists, doctors, physicians, pshychotherapists and other learned experts of the society.
- I have a solution for any of the professionals like psychotherapists that if they are facing a crisis in their profession become a babaji henceforward. Every word you say at whim will be published and propagated as a holy gospel. You can start your own medicine firms, tv channels and what not which would otherwise remain your dream
- Magicians need not worry that the crowds they pull falling off due to other entertaintment. There is another remedy to their career hurdles.
- If you are a bachelor and having trouble with marriage, go ahead and start an ashram and put a board that women are shakti and not discriminated here. Thats it - enjoyment and more enjoyment only. If you are a homosexual this is the best way as well from little boys to big daddy you can play at will

Having said all this I know that there are genuine swamijis, who is genuine -varies from individual to individual perception but I would assume that anybody who does not mislead his devotees, does not have connections with mafia, and lead an unusually hypocritic life, and who is a genuinely learned man in spirituality can qualify as a swamiji. It is upto the individual to be aware whom they want to cherry pick.

Good idea, I might start an ashram soon and may be employ members from TB forum to help out.
We have motivators here,Advaitins,in house doctors,Phds,managements and IT personnel,teachers,principles etc.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ref.249: My view of HS is that it is perverted.

Ref.250: Even established institutions like churches are becoming a HS ground. Recently we heard news of some church father indulging in HS and other sexual activities.

Like a dialogue in a recent Tamil movie, we can believe people who say God exists. We can also believe people who say God does not exist. But we should be wary of people who proclaim themselves to be the God.

 

[renuka]

Ref.249: My view of HS is that it is perverted.

Ref.250: Even established institutions like churches are becoming a HS ground. Recently we heard news of some church father indulging in HS and other sexual activities.

Like a dialogue in a recent Tamil movie, we can believe people who say God exists. We can also believe people who say God does not exist. But we should be wary of people who proclaim themselves to be the God.

Dear Hari,

I have a friend who views even sexual intercourse between husband and wife itself as a form of perversion.
She was the ultimate "Virgin" of the college who didnt even talk to guys cos she used to think its wrong.

You know when we were trainee doctors here if we were on call at night as trainees we were not entitled to a personal bedroom so we have to share this single bedroom with 2 beds with which ever trainee also on call.

So many a times we had to share the room with members of the opposite sex and most of us only slept in that room for 1 hour the most cos we would be so busy seeing patients all through the night.

I still remember she was crying when she knew she had to share the room with a male doc cos she thought it was wrong to do so.
The rest of us were just not bothered or just too tired to know who was sleeping in the adjacent bed.

So I feel perversion is just a perception.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Perversion - Perception: The words might sound rhyming but I don't think perversion is perception. Perversion often is attitude than mere perception. That notwithstanding, I appreciate the message you are trying to convey by narrating a real life expereince. I agree with your act/view in this particular example. I think that is the right way to handle things in life. Your experiences (which you have posted in many threads in this forum) are quite interesting and convey a good impression about you. They are also enlightening to me. Thank you for sharing.

 

[renuka]

Perversion - Perception: The words might sound rhyming but I don't think perversion is perception. Perversion often is attitude than mere perception. That notwithstanding, I appreciate the message you are trying to convey by narrating a real life expereince. I agree with your act/view in this particular example. I think that is the right way to handle things in life. Your experiences (which you have posted in many threads in this forum) are quite interesting and convey a good impression about you. They are also enlightening to me. Thank you for sharing.

Dear Haridas,

When I wrote Perversion is a Perception what I really meant is that we tend to Perceive a particular act that is "distasteful" to us as a Perversion.
See its like this.What which is not palatable to us, we view tend to perceive it negatively.
I can give a better example but its too explicit to write here.

Ok I will give you a within the limits of decency example.

Ok some married couples engaged in acts like using handcuffs for the excitement.Some might view it as a form of sexual perversion but some might just feel its still within normal limits.

So dont you think its just how we perceive it?

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Haridas,

When I wrote Perversion is a Perception what I really meant is that we tend to Perceive a particular act that is "distasteful" to us as a Perversion.
See its like this.What which is not palatable to us, we view tend to perceive it negatively.
I can give a better example but its too explicit to write here.

Ok I will give you a within the limits of decency example.

Ok some married couples engaged in acts like using handcuffs for the excitement.Some might view it as a form of sexual perversion but some might just feel its still within normal limits.

So dont you think its just how we perceive it?

I agree but a balanced human being tries to adhere to the norms of society unless it is against his very nature programmed by genes. So I am not talking about Homosexuality. But for example if in a primary school two teachers hug and kuddle each other in ways going beyond norms of the society, it is an imbalanced decision. They cannot say that my genes and harmones do not allow me to be in control. That is perversion.
Another example of parents doing certain things in front of their children or grandchildren. There is a slight variation from culture to culture but essentially each society has some norms and expects balanced and mature behavior from people.

Is Homosexuality a perversion?, I know no one in close quarters friends, colleagues and family. This is not something I encounter in my day to day life. This leads me to the view that homosexuality is less common in India( per centage vise). The fact that there is more restraint in some societies and less in others, in this matter, leads me to suspect if it is really genetic? I dont think anyone has discovered a homosexual gene, have we?

 

[renuka]

I agree but a balanced human being tries to adhere to the norms of society unless it is against his very nature programmed by genes. So I am not talking about Homosexuality. But for example if in a primary school two teachers hug and kuddle each other in ways going beyond norms of the society, it is an imbalanced decision. They cannot say that my genes and harmones do not allow me to be in control. That is perversion.
Another example of parents doing certain things in front of their children or grandchildren. There is a slight variation from culture to culture but essentially each society has some norms and expects balanced and mature behavior from people.

Is Homosexuality a perversion?, I know no one in close quarters friends, colleagues and family. This is not something I encounter in my day to day life. This leads me to the view that homosexuality is less common in India( per centage vise). The fact that there is more restraint in some societies and less in others, in this matter, leads me to suspect if it is really genetic? I dont think anyone has discovered a homosexual gene, have we?

Coming to genetics..you can read this:

Is there a homosexuality gene?


BTW just an interesting point I want to share.I have 2 patients.They are identical twins(Male).
The elder twin practises Polygamy(permitted by his religion) and the younger twin is gay!

 

[subbudu1]

Coming to genetics..you can read this:

Is there a homosexuality gene?


BTW just an interesting point I want to share.I have 2 patients.They are identical twins(Male).
The elder twin practises Polygamy(permitted by his religion) and the younger twin is gay!

Possible but I think that lot of it is in the brain. Human brain is capable of inducing a lot of perceptions, hearing voices , noise( like in MPSD ) and illusions( different things seeming alike, or objects of differences in length not recognized to be different), color illusions. Other things that may come up is a perception to feel attracted to somebody which may get addictive and so. I believe homosexuality in that order - just a brain creating an addictive feeling to something in somebody that goes beyond the norm. It may be genetic or non genetic. I am no expert

 

[renuka]

Possible but I think that lot of it is in the brain. Human brain is capable of inducing a lot of perceptions, hearing voices , noise( like in MPSD ) and illusions( different things seeming alike, or objects of differences in length not recognized to be different), color illusions. Other things that may come up is a perception to feel attracted to somebody which may get addictive and so. I believe homosexuality in that order - just a brain creating an addictive feeling to something in somebody that goes beyond the norm. It may be genetic or non genetic. I am no expert

Addiction is the word even for Love.You are spot on!!
Read this:

Oxytocin, chemical addiction and the science of love

 

[C RAVI]

If We call Love, possessiveness, compassion as addiction, than in my openion those addictions are the must and are the only source of human survival in a physical world.

A person may strongly love some one (natural/straight love) - It's devine
A person may be possessive with his spouse (natural/straight)- It's the very essential sese of human life. Otherwise, couples may not mind each other's extra marital affirs, openly, even in front of each other.
A person may be compassionate to his/her spouse(natural/straight relationship) - It's the source of sustaining love and relationship.

All the above senses as addiction of humans in this physical world are no bad, IMO.

 

[subbudu1]

There is one another thing that I would like to mention is human will power. The ability to do and convince oneself to do what one believes in.
Since human decisions are based on what people consider a norm, will power plays a role. Let us say we create a norm in the society that one must not walk on stones in the temple, the devotees if they believe in the rule will abide by that law. It is much easier to abide.

But things like sex are difficult to control for some while some are able to control. Before marriage a beautiful young lady provoked me to have double triple looks and sometimes catch my fascination and even appear in my dreams. Once I was married my mind automatically without my knowledge switched off that mode. No woman however beautiful held any power over my mind. It has to do with mind power here. Some people decide to abstain from attraction and atleast some of them are certainly successful. This is the play of will power.

Now if I dont think something is wrong will power does not operate so much. It means it is not an issue I would not think of controlling neither would I hesitate to experiment. Sometimes the very idea can be an excitation for some. Not all people are attracted to someone for the same reason, but for a some a concept can be exciting. For others it is not that just to the fun of doing something new and so on.

In this context by legalizing homosexual marriages, I would assume there would be some people who never would have been homosexuals, become one. Society has to be willing to accept this situation. Do we have the guts?

 

[Harini]

How about legalizing polygamy and polyandry?

If all of these things are there... A will have B C D E & F as partner of which two are of opposite sex and the other two are of same sex as A! All sleep in the same bed for now it is legal!! The next generation G will have father, mother, dammy, maddy, and a step ????

What if one of it is TB and how the Reservation policy will be applicable for G will then make the political discussion

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Dear Haridas,

When I wrote Perversion is a Perception what I really meant is that we tend to Perceive a particular act that is "distasteful" to us as a Perversion.
See its like this.What which is not palatable to us, we view tend to perceive it negatively.
I can give a better example but its too explicit to write here.

Ok I will give you a within the limits of decency example.

Ok some married couples engaged in acts like using handcuffs for the excitement.Some might view it as a form of sexual perversion but some might just feel its still within normal limits.

So dont you think its just how we perceive it?

I neither have good knowledge of psychology nor that of sociology. But I still venture into this discussion. The dictionary gives meaning of perversion as “any of various sexual acts or practices deviating from what is considered normal; sexual deviation”. So, using a handcuff, etc. is sure an act of perversion. No matter who does it. It is another issue that no one can have any view on what (especially of sexual nature) happens between a husband and wife.
Perversion is basically an animal behaviour. A civislised society is not supposed to be pervert. But individuals, who together constitute a society, indulge in acts of perversion, knowingly or unknowingly.
Watching porn, for example, is perversion. But it could be interpreted as pure fun.
Some acts of perversion are less harmful than the others.
Perversion could arise out of ignorance or ego or dissatisfaction or experiment.
Perversion also means “abnormal form”. In that sense, one could argue that the North American English is perversion. Why would they write “check” when the rest of the world writes “cheque”?
Perversion remains so irrespective of what a person believes or perceives or accepts.
To say perversion is perception is over-simplifying or under-emphasising.

 

[C RAVI]

I neither have good knowledge of psychology nor that of sociology. But I still venture into this discussion. The dictionary gives meaning of perversion as “any of various sexual acts or practices deviating from what is considered normal; sexual deviation”. So, using a handcuff, etc. is sure an act of perversion. No matter who does it. It is another issue that no one can have any view on what (especially of sexual nature) happens between a husband and wife.
Perversion is basically an animal behaviour. A civislised society is not supposed to be pervert. But individuals, who together constitute a society, indulge in acts of perversion, knowingly or unknowingly.
Watching porn, for example, is perversion. But it could be interpreted as pure fun.
Some acts of perversion are less harmful than the others.
Perversion could arise out of ignorance or ego or dissatisfaction or experiment.
Perversion also means “abnormal form”. In that sense, one could argue that the North American English is perversion. Why would they write “check” when the rest of the world writes “cheque”?
Perversion remains so irrespective of what a person believes or perceives or accepts.
To say perversion is perception is over-simplifying or under-emphasising.

Wonderful explations Sri Haridasa Siva..

To add to your statements..

Perversions as perceptions, one can practice for himself (if one wish/feels and likes by default) as his individual right and with other sex who has the same taste. Things would go disastrous, distasteful or sick full when perversions as one's perception are expected from the other. When such things happens, the relationship between straight couples strains, the people who are not having perversion as perceptions are gradually intrigued. manipulated and made to accept.

This is how gay/lesbo marriage legalization is going to impact Indian Society. Many chances of boys and girls being brainwashed, made to accept perversions as perceptions and assured of better life with all legal aids. They will also fall under the concept of legal Divorce. They may be divorced, citing incompatibility (as happens with straight people) after one satisfies with his/her personal perversion and marry a opposite sex as straight, telling he/she could understand the real sexual happiness in straight relationships, subsequently have fallen in love (as love can happen with any one at any point of time) and have decided to divorce and get into straight marriage with his/her love.

 

[Harini]

If my third partner is as well the fifth partner of your first partner than what implication it is that we decide to marry each other?

 

[Haridasa Siva]

If my third partner is as well the fifth partner of your first partner than what implication it is that we decide to marry each other?

Are you related to Visu (of "Kudumbam oru kathambam")?

 

[Harini]

Such twisters are known to me from the days of KB. It should have existed even before. Both Visu and KB are Brahmins and so I belong to their community. But I have not met them in any of the marriage or other functions and so I think they may not be related to me even distantly. But in a marriage of the type "If my third partner is as well the fifth partner of your first partner than what implication it is that we decide to marry each other?" there is a possibility that all get related to each other easily without any genetic implication!

 

[renuka]

I neither have good knowledge of psychology nor that of sociology. But I still venture into this discussion. The dictionary gives meaning of perversion as “any of various sexual acts or practices deviating from what is considered normal; sexual deviation”. So, using a handcuff, etc. is sure an act of perversion. No matter who does it. It is another issue that no one can have any view on what (especially of sexual nature) happens between a husband and wife.
Perversion is basically an animal behaviour. A civislised society is not supposed to be pervert. But individuals, who together constitute a society, indulge in acts of perversion, knowingly or unknowingly.
Watching porn, for example, is perversion. But it could be interpreted as pure fun.
Some acts of perversion are less harmful than the others.
Perversion could arise out of ignorance or ego or dissatisfaction or experiment.
Perversion also means “abnormal form”. In that sense, one could argue that the North American English is perversion. Why would they write “check” when the rest of the world writes “cheque”?
Perversion remains so irrespective of what a person believes or perceives or accepts.
To say perversion is perception is over-simplifying or under-emphasising.

Dear Haridas,

I dont think we should drag in animals here.They dont have sex for recreation like humans,most of the while its for procreation.
I have yet to see animals using handcuffs unless they broke into a police station.

How come you are grading perversion as less harmful and more harmful?
Isnt perversion still a perversion?
I have yet to come across any sighted guy who hasn't surfed porn and now there are even porn websites for the blind with full sound effects.

I still feel any impression or even a thought in our mind is a perception and perversion is also a thought that arises in the mind of the beholder.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Haridas,

I still feel any impression or even a thought in our mind is a perception and perversion is also a thought that arises in the mind of the beholder.

Dear Renukar,

I would differ a bit here.

Any impression or thought in our mind can not be considered as perceptions, IMO. Thoughts and impression would often take place in every one's mind without doubt. It also keeps changing now and them. It can also be in a confused state and we tend to clear it off with answers from within or from others.

When we decide and determine to hold up an idea, belief, practices, knowledge gained and live by it, we are considered having perceived a set of our life style/personality qualities.


Perversion as you said is a thought that arises in the mind of beholder, with no doubt. After all the thoughts in mind are the only factor that makes us think, act and react.


If we enjoy such perversions and want to perceive it as our life style, than perversion becomes our standard perception of life.

Thus perversion and perception can not be considered as same, IMO.

As Sri Haridasa Siva has stated in his post #263 and as I have stated in my post #264, perversions as a result of thought process can not be considered viable for a civil society.

But, we are not surprised with the existence of such perversion in some humans. They have perceived perversion and are enjoying their life with their perceptions.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukar,

I would differ a bit here.

Any impression or thought in our mind can not be considered as perceptions, IMO. Thoughts and impression would often take place in every one's mind without doubt. It also keeps changing now and them. It can also be in a confused state and we tend to clear it off with answers from within or from others.

When we decide and determine to hold up an idea, belief, practices, knowledge gained and live by it, we are considered having perceived a set of our life style/personality qualities.


Perversion as you said is a thought that arises in the mind of beholder, with no doubt. After all the thoughts in mind are the only factor that makes us think, act and react.


If we enjoy such perversions and want to perceive it as our life style, than perversion becomes our standard perception of life.

Thus perversion and perception can not be considered as same, IMO.

As Sri Haridasa Siva has stated in his post #263 and as I have stated in my post #264, perversions as a result of thought process can not be considered viable for a civil society.

But, we are not surprised with the existence of such perversion in some humans. They have perceived perversion and are enjoying their life with their perceptions.

Dear Ravi,

I am too tired today to write a reply, so to have the easy way out I am clicking Like for what you wrote since you also click Like for both sides of any debate.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

I am too tired today to write a reply, so to have the easy way out I am clicking Like for what you wrote since you also click Like for both sides of any debate.

Dear Renuka,

Thank you very much for having accepted openly that, you have clicked "Like" to my post just as a humble reciprocation and not as the acceptance of the content of my post.

I never have clicked "Like" for your posts or any one’s post, that was in no sense agreeable / acceptable to me in total. You seem to have been confused due to my "Liking" of some of the vital points of your posts partially (that are not totally in contrast to my views).

My explanations on the same points in another thread seem to have disappointed you at the most, to the extent of ignoring them and continuing with your unwarranted confusions.

You are not the only one to continue with unwarranted confusions. Just, as of now two members (begining with you) have expressed it and may be few others are there who are not expressing it.

No issues dear Renuka, your clicking "Like" to my post or not, doesn't matter to me at all. As well, I am confident that, my clicking of "Like" for other posts in the sense of at least partial acceptance and giving credit to the poster, not gonna make the other participating posters change their stand on the topics.


I am very happy to note your honesty and the level of gratefulness. Keep it up.


Thank you one again dear Renuka..

 

[jaisiyaraam]

The dictionary gives meaning of perversion as “any of various sexual acts or practices deviating from what is considered normal; sexual deviation”...
Perversion is basically an animal behaviour...

Namaste Haridasa Sivaji,

You have given directionary meaning and your opinion on perversion.

Do you mean there is predefined/prescribed standard/understanding about normal human sexual acts ?
Do you consider Humans involving in sexual acts other than for procreation abnormal / perversion ?
Are Oral and Anal sex within normal human sexual acts ?

Do you mean human beings mimicking sexual acts similar to animals are perverted ?
Animals have sex only for procreation (exception exists like bonobos, dolphins etc.,) so which animals sexual acts you are considering for defining/differentiating humanness/human sexual acts ?
Male Elephant cant penetrate Female Elephant and sprays sperms(semen ?) inside Female Elphant so is Elephant animal in your sense or spiritually more advanced than human ?

Om Hiranya Rethase Namaha

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

 

[C RAVI]

Namaste Haridasa Sivaji,

You have given directionary meaning and your opinion on perversion.

Do you mean there is predefined/prescribed standard/understanding about normal human sexual acts ?
Do you consider Humans involving in sexual acts other than for procreation abnormal / perversion ?
Are Oral and Anal sex within normal human sexual acts ?

Do you mean human beings mimicking sexual acts similar to animals are perverted ?
Animals have sex only for procreation (exception exists like bonobos, dolphins etc.,) so which animals sexual acts you are considering for defining/differentiating humanness/human sexual acts ?
Male Elephant cant penetrate Female Elephant and sprays sperms(semen ?) inside Female Elphant so is Elephant animal in your sense or spiritually more advanced than human ?

Om Hiranya Rethase Namaha

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

Sri jaisiaraam

I would just like to share my views with your points..

A husband doing and demanding oral and anal sex may be found as distasteful and equivalent to animal by his wife, who don't enjoy the style. The husband may either force her to accept his doing and giving him the pleasure back Or he would just accept her way and ignore his choices And / OR he may fulfill his requirements from other ladies outside his marriage.

The same may happen if a wife is on the other side (as a husband, narrated above).

As I have stated in previous post #264, a couple sharing same kind of perversion/perception would have no issues and would be having complete sexual satisfaction, with love and care towards each other.

I am pasting below the extract of that post of mine again here -

----------------------------------------------------
Perversions as perceptions, one can practice for himself (if one wish/feels and likes by default) as his individual right and with other sex who has the same taste. Things would go disastrous, distasteful or sick full when perversions as one's perception are expected from the other. When such things happens, the relationship between straight couples strains, the people who are not having perversion as perceptions are gradually intrigued. manipulated and made to accept.
----------------------------------------------------

As far as Animals are concerned…I have no idea. But I got to know one thing, from a TV documentary in National Geographic Channel in the year 2006, that force doings are very much common among animals. In that documentary a male monkey was forcing his way out, somehow overpowering the female monkey , to indulge in oral sex. The male monkey could some how succeed in giving oral sex to female monkey for his pleasure and against the liking of the female monkey.

In fact, I can say that, many of us might have witnessed such force doing in animals, before our eyes in real. Many of us might have noticed a dog forcefully having intercourse with a bitch, making hell out of her. Some of us might have also seen a group of dog indulging by force with one bitch and each one of them get hurt physically. Much to the irony, the bitch suffers the most.

Other than the above case, I could not understand the sexual acts of Elephant or Tiger or Deer, or Cat etc..etc. And could not understand the acceptance of their style among those animals and our analysis about them.

In my opinion, in a simple terms Animals are Animals and Humans are Humans. Anything force doing among humans to be considered as equivalent to Animal instinct.

 

[biswa]

Can we bring this thread back from X-rated to at least R-rated please?

 

[renuka]

Can we bring this thread back from X-rated to at least R-rated please?

Biswa you are such a spoiler!!! I am waiting for it to go XX-rated(Both straight and gay) and you want to go in reverse direction.