Changing times

[Nara]

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Quite right you are, and perhaps, an extension of the above statement would be to say that non-casteist parents treat their kids like stray dogs; untamed and quite willing to mate with any canine. Left to their own devices, as you say.

You are being quite silly and unnecessarily offensive and irrational.

Your extension is illogical and without any basis. A comparison between those who insist on caste pedigree and dog breeders who investigate 4 generations of dog parentage was pointed out by Mrs. RR.

துணை தேடும் செல்லப் பிராணிக்கு நாலு தலைமுறை அலசி
துணை தேடும் எத்தனைபேரை நம்மிடைக் காண்கின்றோம்!

From this it does not follow those who don't care for caste also treat their children as dogs. This is just rubbish.

Once again, let everyone hear loud and clear, it is not that difficult, I did not say casteist parents treat their kids as dogs on my own volition. When dog breeding was offered as justification for looking for in-caste mate I just pointed out what that actually amounts to. So stop with this nonsense. If any of you want to further discuss dog analogy take it up with Mrs. RR.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof Sir,

Thank you for enlightening me (once again?)

Yes! We humans are very different! :thumb:

 

[Nara]

Thank you for enlightening me (once again?)

Yes! We humans are very different!

Dear Mrs. RR, I have not enlightened you more than you have me. It is just another perspective you may not have had the opportunity to think about. We all learn from each other. It is unfortunate that a couple of முந்திரிக்கொட்டை irrationally jumped in head first.

Anyway, best regards, Dileepan

 

[renuka]

. So to equate Dogs to people on this site is crass at best.

Dear Prasad ji,

Actually I always feel equating humans to dogs is an honour cos dogs have gratefulness which none of us humans can ever even imagine to be.

Well the same Atma is in humans and dogs.

When I was young my mum used to get a bit mad with me cos I used to have the same nick names for my dogs and also humans..and she used to say "how could you call humans and dogs by the same nick name?"

I used to wonder why she is getting angry with me??


Anyway per Advaita everything is Brahman.

After all Geeta does back it up that

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ(BG 5.18)

BTW it is only in the word DOG we find the word GOD...no other living being has this honour.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof Sir,

In our family circle also we have had a number of IC and IR weddings. When the couple live overseas, there is no problem.

But if they happen to live in India, they face lots of difficulties during family functions. My nephew, settled in the U S of A,

had a tough time when he brought his wife who does not know Tamil, to visit India. We love to talk in our mother tongue.

Whenever we talk in Tamil, she was clean bowled! So, my nephew almost became a full time translator and had a tough

time to translate the 'kadi jokes we shared!

 

[renuka]

Whenever we talk in Tamil, she was clean bowled! So, my nephew almost became a full time translator and had a tough

time to translate the 'kadi jokes we shared!

Dear RR ji,

May be next time she can do what I usually do when I am with people who speak in a language I don't know or speak a topic I am not interested in.... I just walk nearby and phone someone else and keep talking on phone till others are done with their conversation.

 

[tks]

Op itself is meaningless in my view with respect to times.

There were , there is and there will be kids who always like to ask questions in all religious traditions.

And there were, there is and there will be always elders who will answer them (and some that wont for any number of reasons). Those that answer may be knowledgeable or they make things up which is more common. This is not going to change


Hindu scriptures that has teaching sections are always presented as a dialog be it B.Gita or Upanishads or Yoga Vasishtam or Moksha Dharma Parva to name a few. True appreciation is only possible with understanding. Our teachings are teachings not preachings. Encouraging questions is actually unique to our tradition of teaching and is not new. In fact it is probably several thousand years old for the history buffs.

If a person is preached only all their life then they had to become numb and dumb to reasons which produces a breed of unreasonable types. We see their output often in forums and elsewhere.

 

[renuka]

Op itself is meaningless in my view with respect to times.

There were , there is and there will be kids who always like to ask questions in all religious traditions.

And there were, there is and there will be always elders who will answer them (and some that wont for any number of reasons). Those that answer may be knowledgeable or they make things up which is more common. This is not going to change


Hindu scriptures that has teaching sections are always presented as a dialog be it B.Gita or Upanishads or Yoga Vasishtam or Moksha Dharma Parva to name a few. True appreciation is only possible with understanding. Our teachings are teachings not preachings. Encouraging questions is actually unique to our tradition of teaching and is not new. In fact it is probably several thousand years old for the history buffs.

If a person is preached only all their life then they had to become numb and dumb to reasons which produces a breed of unreasonable types. We see their output often in forums and elsewhere.

Dear TKS ji,

I agree with what you wrote.

Children will ask any questions and we should know how to guide them towards and better understanding and not really just think of an answer.

Sometimes an "answer" is not the answer to everything..it should be an understanding of a situation or a subject not just 1 line of a answer to a question.

For example last week my son asked my mother..(he was reading some religious book which had the word caste in it).

Then he asked my mum " Do you believe in caste?"

To which my mum replied "No"

Then he asked her "what is your caste?"

To which she replied her caste and my son asked her again "I thought you did not believe in caste then why are you identifying yourself with a caste"

My mum said "You asked me my caste ..so I answered the caste I was born into"

My son said "that was not the answer I was expecting..I thought you would say there is no such thing as caste..all of us are humans"

So a child's mind surely works differently...sometimes we end up learning from them.

 

[Vaagmi]

Quite right you are, and perhaps, an extension of the above statement would be to say that non-casteist parents treat their kids like stray dogs; untamed and quite willing to mate with any canine. Left to their own devices, as you say.

Well said.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Prof Sir,

In our family circle also we have had a number of IC and IR weddings. When the couple live overseas, there is no problem.

But if they happen to live in India, they face lots of difficulties during family functions. My nephew, settled in the U S of A,

had a tough time when he brought his wife who does not know Tamil, to visit India. We love to talk in our mother tongue.

Whenever we talk in Tamil, she was clean bowled! So, my nephew almost became a full time translator and had a tough

time to translate the 'kadi jokes we shared!

Moral of the story:

ஆதலால் காதல் செய்வீர் வேறு ஜாதிப்பெண்களை. ஆதலால் மணம் செய்வீர் வேறு ஜாதியிலிருந்து.

IC/IR marriages are great indeed at least for the fun involved.

 

[renuka]

Vaagmi Ji,

What happened to you yaar??? Suddenly you are singing a different Raaga?

Everything OK??

Check Madi Swamy!

Meaning of Check Madi Swamy is "Better get yourself checked" in Tullu.

 

[auh]

You are being quite silly and unnecessarily offensive and irrational.

Your extension is illogical and without any basis. A comparison between those who insist on caste pedigree and dog breeders who investigate 4 generations of dog parentage was pointed out by Mrs. RR.

துணை தேடும் செல்லப் பிராணிக்கு நாலு தலைமுறை அலசி
துணை தேடும் எத்தனைபேரை நம்மிடைக் காண்கின்றோம்!

From this it does not follow those who don't care for caste also treat their children as dogs. This is just rubbish.

Once again, let everyone hear loud and clear, it is not that difficult, I did not say casteist parents treat their kids as dogs on my own volition. When dog breeding was offered as justification for looking for in-caste mate I just pointed out what that actually amounts to. So stop with this nonsense. If any of you want to further discuss dog analogy take it up with Mrs. RR.

My reply can only be as silly, offensive or irrational as your post which I have quoted in my earlier post.
Just as you picked up from another member's post, I found my logic from yours. Relax.

 

[sarang]

In the one hour interview by Sri Narendra Modi to reuters, only his reference 'kuthe ki bachhe' statement is widely quoted by the enlightened media and secular critics; they conclude that 'dog' is an indirect reference to muslims.

conclusion:

naa obvious the dog is at the centre of spirituality and psychology now

manidan is a kalavai?? kadavul padhi and mirugam padhi !!

 

[Vaagmi]

Vaagmi Ji,

What happened to you yaar??? Suddenly you are singing a different Raaga?

Everything OK??

Check Madi Swamy!

Meaning of Check Madi Swamy is "Better get yourself checked" in Tullu.

Renuka,

I checked up with the "Madi Mamy" and has corrected my post. Howzat?

 

[Vaagmi]

In the one hour interview by Sri Narendra Modi to reuters, only his reference 'kuthe ki bachhe' statement is widely quoted by the enlightened media and secular critics; they conclude that 'dog' is an indirect reference to muslims.

Lord Bairava is going to get angry after reading all that is posted here and when he gets angry he will curse members here to become a dog in China.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

I checked up with the "Madi Mamy" and has corrected my post. Howzat?

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I had also removed the quoted portion from my reply to you.

Set Madi Swamy! (meaning..That's the way Swamy)

 

[Raji Ram]

.... May be next time she can do what I usually do when I am with people who speak in a language I don't know or speak a topic I am not interested in.... I just walk nearby and phone someone else and keep talking on phone till others are done with their conversation.

NO Renu, Not at all possible! We talk non stop with lots of 'malarum ninaivugaL' about that nephew's younger days! :blah:

 

[vgane]

There is a comparison with dogs in this thread....Each category of animal has certain personality traits.. A dog too can be grouped with the following 5 traits--- playfulness, curiosity/fearlessness, chase-proneness, sociability and aggressiveness...A lion for example works together as a team to kill a prey but they fight with each other at the time of eating...It has high degree of territorial ownership and will maraud any intruders into its space

On the other hand man may have a combination of traits of several animal species (both good & bad)

Man is however having the power of discrimination that allows him to choose the path that he would like to pursue---on the path of virtue or on the path of impiety leading to loss of morality

 

[renuka]

There is a comparison with dogs in this thread....Each category of animal has certain personality traits.. A dog too can be grouped with the following 5 traits--- playfulness, curiosity/fearlessness, chase-proneness, sociability and aggressiveness...A lion for example works together as a team to kill a prey but they fight with each other at the time of eating...It has high degree of territorial ownership and will maraud any intruders into its space

On the other hand man may have a combination of traits of several animal species (both good & bad)





Man is therefore

Man is therefore the Parama Pashu hence he needs a Pashupathi to tame him!

 

[tks]

The discussion about animals might be a distraction that helps to hide a meaningless OP about questioning kids of modern age (Caste points thrown in to spice it all up)!

What are constants?

Well, old stereotypical prejudices are getting replaced by new ones and this will continue as long as humans continue to exist.

Nature does not express everyone and everything equal with respect to a given set of attributes.

Similarly a class of people could have certain attributes which is far more pronounced than for another class.

Such differences will always be exploited by a few. This has happened , continue to happen and will happen in the future.

Any social system created by human beings will be flawed and will be exploited by some beings with prejudice. (Even this forum that has strong guidelines for free expression provides an unintended punching bag called Brahminism/Brahmins to satisfy psychological needs of a few)

The only constant in all this is that all these prejudices arise out of ignorance. A society that encourages questioning and does not expect its members to lose their reasoning ability by blind faith can increase its knowledge and avoid conflicts such as those arising out of prejudice.

This means celebrating differences and diversity, not pretending to hide them.

This means a teaching tradition that encourages questioning like that of Hindus (points made in earlier post)

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

I agree with what you wrote.

Children will ask any questions and we should know how to guide them towards and better understanding and not really just think of an answer.

Sometimes an "answer" is not the answer to everything..it should be an understanding of a situation or a subject not just 1 line of a answer to a question.

For example last week my son asked my mother..(he was reading some religious book which had the word caste in it).

Then he asked my mum " Do you believe in caste?"

To which my mum replied "No"

Then he asked her "what is your caste?"

To which she replied her caste and my son asked her again "I thought you did not believe in caste then why are you identifying yourself with a caste"

My mum said "You asked me my caste ..so I answered the caste I was born into"

My son said "that was not the answer I was expecting..I thought you would say there is no such thing as caste..all of us are humans"

So a child's mind surely works differently...sometimes we end up learning from them.

Your son is very smart

If you agree with the statement below you can talk to him more when he grows up.

Classification and naming will always exist within human beings. Doing adharmic acts in the name of anything will lead to chaos . So one does not have to believe in unwarranted superiority but they can choose any classification they think they belong to without prejudice and even celebrate their uniqueness.

Even the following lines by Mrs RR is getting challenged these days and Germans have a unique response

ஜாதிகள் இரண்டொழிய வேறில்லை; ஆண், பெண் என்று!

Here is a news item this month

Third Gender Option to Become Available on German Birth Certificates - SPIEGEL ONLINE

A legislative change taking effect in Germany this November allows parents to opt out of determining their baby's gender. The law is the first of its kind in Europe.



Germany is set to become the first country in Europe to introduce a third, "indeterminate" gender designation on birth certificates. The European Union, which is attempting to coordinate anti-discrimination efforts across member states, is lagging behind on the issue.

The option of selecting "blank," in addition to the standard choices of "male" or female" on birth certificates will become available in Germany from November 1. The legislative change allows parents to opt out of determining their baby's gender, thereby allowing those born with characteristics of both sexes to choose whether to become male or female in later life. Under the new law, individuals can also opt to remain outside the gender binary altogether.

Germany is the first country in Europe to introduce this option -- Munich-based newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung is referring to the change as a "legal revolution." It remains unclear, however, how the change will affect gender assignment in other personal documents, such as passports, which still require people to choose between two categories -- "F" for female and "M" for male. German family law publication FamRZ has called for the introduction of a third category, designated by the letter "X."

 

[vgane]

Man is therefore the Parama Pashu hence he needs a Pashupathi to tame him!

Dear Renukaji,

Had a good laugh with your post!

I have just now added a PS to my post

[Man is however having the power of discrimination that allows him to choose the path that he would like to pursue---on the path of virtue or on the path of impiety leading to loss of morality ]

 

[Nara]

In our family circle also we have had a number of IC and IR weddings. When the couple live overseas, there is no problem. But if they happen to live in India, they face lots of difficulties during family functions.

Mrs. RR, This is true not only in your family, to my knowledge, in all the families I know there is at least one IC/IR, in most cases several. This trend is not going to be reversed. Those who cling to caste-pedigree attitude will only bring grief to themselves and others around them.

My nephew, settled in the U S of A, had a tough time when he brought his wife who does not know Tamil, to visit India. We love to talk in our mother tongue. Whenever we talk in Tamil, she was clean bowled! So, my nephew almost became a full time translator and had a tough time to translate the 'kadi jokes we shared!

Surely your nephew's wife is no less a lovely and loving person than an Iyer girl. So you must know jAti does not matter.

best ....

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Surely your nephew's wife is no less a lovely and loving person than an Iyer girl. So you must know jAti does not matter. ....

You are absolutely correct Prof Sir! And I would add: She is better than many Iyer girls I know!

She is pretty; holds a Ph D degree; very neat and tidy; loving; soft spoken and a vegan!

She has added two pretty children to our family and we all love all of them.

P.S: But they still feel uncomfortable by the comments of a few of our relatives in the extended family!

 

[renuka]

I have noted out here that when the Daughter In Law is a totally different race for example a Chinese or Malay marries an Indian..I often see Indian Mothers In Law out here eventually singing praises about the other race DIL but if the DIL is an Indian like them from a different caste especially or even same caste then all the problems start.

I feel it is not that other races seem to be better DILs but the fact remains that the Indian MIL and her Non Indian DIL are just extra cautious of each other and try to maintain a fairly good relationship.
Both are careful in dealing with each other and a rather diplomatic and politically correct relationship develops.

When a person is also an Indian from which ever caste then both MIL and DIL do not really display extra caution becos of similar culture and lifestyle..the average Indian lifestyle from caste to caste does not differ that much as imagined.... therefore they tend to just be themselves and the differences start to crop up.

An Indian MIL expects more from her Indian DIL and even if she is already doing her very best but less effort put in by a Non Indian DIL is seen as a mountain of virtue.

Best example: if we see a Non Indian dressed in Saree everyone goes Goo Goo Gaa Gaa praising them left right and centre ...but if an Indian is seen wearing a saree no Goo Goo Gaa Gaa are showered even if she looks like a Movie Star..and worse still if an Indian is seen wearing western attire sans signs and symbols of her so called Indianess she is shot down with arrows of words for her lack of Indianess.