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Define a Brahmin please!!

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Hello Happyhindu:

1. Yes, you will have minor oscillations in the melanin content during summer vs winter time; or depending on how long you stay in direct sun uncovered and how long at a time etc... but the levels "settles down" to a near constant level of pigment.

2. As I discussed in the other thread cited above, immigrants from the North (you may call the Aryan invasion if you like those words) met the Aboriginal peoples of India, who I believe were dark-skinned (similar to most people at the very Southern tip of India). They fought initially; but after some time they started inter-marry between the two groups and started migrating towards the South.

When you inter-marry over at least for a period of 3000 years, the mutant allele (the low pigment genes of the Central Asia) and the wild-type gene products (of the Original peoples) interact to give different hues of pigment color, which is what you see in most of the middle part of India, with some exception.

In other words, the Kashmiris are nearly same as the peoples of Central Asian population and the Kanyakumaris are nearly the Original peoples of India (who appear very similar to Kenyans and the Aboriginals of Australia) as far as the skin pigments are concerned.

3. I guess not all immigrants (the peoples of Central Asia) became the Vedam writing or reading people.. some of them perhaps started liking and practices of the Original people (the Dravidians) and they followed them.

4. Please go to the Thread I mentioned before and see a material posted by Renuka for mtDNA haplotypes.

Cheers.

Shri Yamaka,

I have some serious disagreement with the aryan invasion theory.

On my part i agree with research by Frits Staal.

In the pre-vedic period there were very many tribes of various lingusitic origins (sino-tibetan, austro-asiatic, dravidian, indo-european, etc). People entered layer by layer into India.

To get a foothold, these groups fought. Obviously post-fight mergers cud not have been avoided. So these groups merged as well.

Some of these were matrilineal, some were patrilienal. Depending on which group won, the culture of the winning tribe was followed after assimilation.

The vedas were composed after this period. Which is why even rigveda has words of dravidian origin, sino-tibetan origin, etc.

What we call as the 'vedic period" is a period of composition, which reflects the continuation of tribal fights. Even the "oldest" of all vedas portrays a fight in its early part, that is, the battle of the ten kings (dasarajna).

Cattle-raids between aryas and dasyus is a recurring theme. I suppose these were tribal fights for cattle, arable land, water, etc.

I seriously doubt if the aryas were fair, light-skinned siberians, or some such thing. If they had already merged in part with various other tribes before the dasarajna, we cannot assume them to be looking like present-day europeans.

The dasyus have been desribed as noseless, dark-skinned, and bull-lipped (thick lips). The description wud fit a farmer in thailand or in java even today.

Am not sure why the dasyu description is taken by commentators to refer to dravidian speakers. I feel it applies to the austroasiatic (mundari) speakers instead of dravidian speakers. Or a mixed group of dravidian-austroasiatic people.

I feel the gradation of skin pigmentation from Kashmir to Kanyakumari merely reflects the climate of the sub-continent. People in Kanyakumari receive a lot-lot-lot more sun than their counterparts in Kashmir. South receives a particular type of sweltering heat that can cook the brain into scrambled egg on a hot afternoon.

Kashmiris can shed off melanin content in snowy winters. Something that people of kanyakumari can never experience. Obviously people of kashmir will be light-skinned and Kanyakumari will be the darkest. Am thinking its a reflection of the climate, from the Himalayan region all across to the near-tropical hot coastal region.

I managed to locate a particualr thread. Please do confirm for me if this the thread you are speaking of : http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6498-aryan-invasion-confusion.html (Also , please give me some time. I need time to go thru the posts in that thread to respond).

Regards.
 
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Hello HH:

That's the Thread...

You may also get more material on mtDNA haplotypes by Googling/blinging..

The final proof of my hypothesis will come -

If one can isolate and sequence all the genes responsible for the melanin pigment synthesis, processing, transport and final assembly and maintenance of large number of people from Kanyakumari, Chennai, Patna, Kashmir, Turkmanistan, Kazhakstan and Kenya.

That's doable project, if someone funds it! Lol

Till then, it is just a hypothesis, IMO.

Cheers.

Regards

Y
 
Hello HH:

That's the Thread...

You may also get more material on mtDNA haplotypes by Googling/blinging..

The final proof of my hypothesis will come -

If one can isolate and sequence all the genes responsible for the melanin pigment synthesis, processing, transport and final assembly and maintenance of large number of people from Kanyakumari, Chennai, Patna, Kashmir, Turkmanistan, Kazhakstan and Kenya.

That's doable project, if someone funds it! Lol

Till then, it is just a hypothesis, IMO.

Cheers.

Regards

Y
Thanks Yamaka, will read up the thread over the weekend. Will log in on Monday next.

As for the project on melanin pigment studies, i will be more than happy to work for you for free if someone funds it :)

Am thinking what if there are genes responsible for melanin processes in the indian population that are not yet isolated. I mean, if one starts off with say SLC24A5 or A326G allele, and ends up finding that they do not influence skin color much in Indians, then the project wud be stuck right from the word go...

Regards.
 
The whole edifice of capitalism is built on the principle of living on the labour of others. Why single out only brahmins?--Narayan asked.

Dear Narayan:

In my understanding, capitalism is where the capital gets MORE importance over the labor in an enterprise.

History records the confrontations between the labor and management (either owner of the capital or owners' representative as the manager) at length.

In this modern world, I stoutly oppose your assertion that "capitalism is built on the principle of living on labor of others."

Because, the present day capitalism involves capital, unique know-how provided by the cadre of scientists, engineers, accountants and other "white collar professionals" (collectively called as Technology), the old cadre of "blue collar" workers and the management.

Capital requires some reasonable return on the money (10 y US Treasury rate plus a risk premium of say 3%-5%).

In a well run enterprise, all the stackholders are happy: capitalists - the share holders get about 5%-8% long term return on capital, after inflation; professionals and management get salaries & benefits and the labor gets wages & benefits.

Bonuses are paid yearly depending on the " excess profitability" of the enterprise, which follows all the laws mandated by the elected Govt in liberal democracy.

Where do you see these days "the principle of living on labor of others", please?

Cheers.

ps. I see some aberrations in the Financial Sector behavior before and after the Financial Tsunami that destroyed Lehman Bros, Bear Stearns etc in 2008.

Dear Sri Yamaka,

I stand by my earlier comment. Clarifying my stand and responding to your queries here would be doing injustice to the thrust of "Define a Brahmin Please" for which this thread was opened. As one thread opened by me under "Fate and Freewill" is quite active, I do not intend to open another thread. However, if you open a new thread to consider the merits/demerits of capitalism, crony capitalism etc. I would be happy to contribute.

As regards the p.s. which is "some aberration in financial sector in 2008", according to you, my mind is fresh with LTCM crisis, Barings Bank case, Black Monday of 1992 when Geroge Soros "broke the Bank of England", East Asian Bank crisis, shady dealings of GS in designing a counter-product to their "exotic mortgage (sub prime) product" after having pushed their original products down the throats of gullible investors etc.

Regards,

narayan
 
O AND WHY HASN'T ANYONE ADDRESSED THE MAIN ISSUE??? IS ONE MARRY A 'BRAHMIN' WHO WASN'T BORN ONE?? HEY, DON'T GIVE ME ANSWERS LIKE 'INTER-CASTE MARRIAGES ARE RIGHT, WE SHOULD FINISH OFF THE ENTIRE SYSTEM ETC' Just tell me if it is possible to call a non-Brahmin a Brahmin. THIS POST IS NOT AN ARGUMENT AGAINST THE SYSTEM- THE QUESTION IS, CAN TI BE INCLUSIVE AND THUS, BECOME HARMLESS?
.

In today's world, a brahmin is considered brahmin only by his/her birth. A man or woman born for a Brahmin Father are called Brahmins.

If you ask me whether genetic qualities plays a role in identifying a brahmin, thats another question altogether.


For your simple question, a person born for a NB man will not be considered as a Brahmin, just for his/her fine qualities and eating Veg. only, etc (as per the standard definition of brahmins from pouranic periods).

Whether one marries a NB considering his fine qualities or one not being so particular about marring a B, considering him as same as NB by his behvior, habits, etc, whatever may be, it all dosen't matter. All that matter is how you consider the other person is, to share your life with you through out and how you can cope with a diffeerent culture/tradition and life styles of your husband/wife.

Now my simple question is -


1) What can be acheived by considering a NB as B?
2) Are NB's in dire need of calling themselves as B's?
3) Do Nb guys wish themselves to be considered Brahmin by marrying a B girl?







 
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....For most youngsters, caste is increasingly growing to be a non-entity..
I agree Happy, but I think the change is being slowed down by the parents and the practice of arranged marriage.

I was watching Vijay TV Neeyaa Naanaa couple of days back, and the topic was pros and cons of arranged marriage. As usual the host did a great job. What I noticed was almost all youngsters emphatically stated that same caste is a must. But when the host asked why, many, sadly not all, mentioned parents won't allow icm as the reason.

An interesting side note is one of the boys was a temple priest whose educational qualification was no more than Veda Patashala. His mom demanded why no girl comes forward to marry her boy even though he makes a good living. A girl who appeared to be Brahmin replied with platitudes about the sacredness of Vedas, but rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest with a perfunctory ஒத்துப்போகாது.

Cheers!
 
If you ask me whether genetic qualities plays a role in identifying a brahmin, thats another question altogether.
Shri Ravi,
Are you saying genetics plays a role in "identifying a brahmin" ?? Am sorry but looking at the amount of claims made in this regard, i cannot let such statements go unchallenged. So kindly forgive me for intervening in your conversation with meghavarshini.

For your simple question, a person born for a NB man will not be considered as a Brahmin, just for his/her fine qualities and eating Veg. only, etc (as per the standard definition of brahmins from pouranic periods).
May i know the sources where it is mentioned that in the puranic period brahmins had fine qualities and ate only vegetarian food?

1) What can be acheived by considering a NB as B?
2) Are NB's are in dire need of calling themselves as B's?
3) Do Nb guys wish themselves to be considered Brahmin by marrying a B girl?
Not just meghavarshini. Asking "who is a brahmin" seems to be the past-time for quiet a few posters. This question repetedly comes up in this forum.

Folks like gopaindu (in this very thread) define as per their own fancies.

I think it merely reflects a desire to project oneself in a certain manner thru caste-labels (and yet having some self-doubt because the inner conscience will not leave us alone if we try falsified claims).

Or perhaps there is some sort of introspection regarding expectations of a brahmin from the shastra pov, and some sort of an inner trouble that one is unable to live upto it.

Or perhaps there is this curiosity reg our hindu social set-up, and the desire to build an ideal world in future.

Sorry to say Ravi ji, but IMO, those who are confounded with all these questions are those who want the brahmin label themselves (that is 'brahmins' themselves).

I see Yamaka as someone like me. Someone for whom caste matters maybe just started off as a matter of curiosity, or an academic interest (in sociology and religious history) [I hope there will be a seperate sub-forum for us to explore caste from various angles including genetic studies, instead of people like us involving in various threads].
 
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I agree Happy, but I think the change is being slowed down by the parents and the practice of arranged marriage.

I was watching Vijay TV Neeyaa Naanaa couple of days back, and the topic was pros and cons of arranged marriage. As usual the host did a great job. What I noticed was almost all youngsters emphatically stated that same caste is a must. But when the host asked why, many, sadly not all, mentioned parents won't allow icm as the reason.

An interesting side note is one of the boys was a temple priest whose educational qualification was no more than Veda Patashala. His mom demanded why no girl comes forward to marry her boy even though he makes a good living. A girl who appeared to be Brahmin replied with platitudes about the sacredness of Vedas, but rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest with a perfunctory ஒத்துப்போகாது.

Cheers!

Sri Nara,

That's the ground reality. A priest can not be expected to accept the modern life style of a girl. Many girls from vedici families are into higher education obviously, and would certainly look for a man who believes and follows modern value systems.

ICM marrieges are still a No No, in Indian society. Especially in families with more than 1 children. If one of the children get married to another cast with the full support of his/her parents, than, the other would lose the scope of getting a brahmin partner for him/her (that one person, he/she may be particular about marrying a Brahmin).

So we can't blame parents too.

It's a very tricky situation. Only time to answer as how and when the evolution will take place in the society.



 
I agree Happy, but I think the change is being slowed down by the parents and the practice of arranged marriage.

I was watching Vijay TV Neeyaa Naanaa couple of days back, and the topic was pros and cons of arranged marriage. As usual the host did a great job. What I noticed was almost all youngsters emphatically stated that same caste is a must. But when the host asked why, many, sadly not all, mentioned parents won't allow icm as the reason.

An interesting side note is one of the boys was a temple priest whose educational qualification was no more than Veda Patashala. His mom demanded why no girl comes forward to marry her boy even though he makes a good living. A girl who appeared to be Brahmin replied with platitudes about the sacredness of Vedas, but rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest with a perfunctory ஒத்துப்போகாது.

Cheers!
So true sir...

And the girl who rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest is, i feel, a perfect reflection of our changing times....

I feel men especially are the sort who want to keep pleasing their parents.

Again men too are the sort who tend to take pride in their most recent (known) ancestors..

All this is male bastion, i feel.

Women are more interested in a easy life without too much hassle, freedom to do things and run the household as per her wishes, etc. Something that men rarely gave a woman in the past (or perhaps even today)..

Regards.
 
Sri Happyhindu,

My replies in blue..
.

Shri Ravi,
Are you saying genetics plays a role in "identifying a brahmin" ?? Am sorry but looking at the amount of claims made in this regard, i cannot let such statements go unchallenged. So kindly forgive me for intervening in your conversation with meghavarshini.

- I am not at all into expolring the validity of specific genetic qualities Sri Happyhindu. Since many of B's claims so, I simply have indicated about it as a different subject matter. Personally I am least bothered about the validity of genetic qualities.

May i know the sources where it is mentioned that in the puranic period brahmins had fine qualities and ate only vegetarian food?

- Sri Happy Hindu, the same reply as above. I am not bothered of the validity of eating habits of puranic Humans. Yes, I was wrong to say puranic period, that might have made you to ask me where I stand on this point. I simply meant to say that NV food is a no no in Tamil Brahmin society as a culture/tradition/belief.


Not just meghavarshini. Asking "who is a brahmin" seems to be the past-time for quiet a few posters. This question repetedly comes up in this forum. Folks like gopaindu (in this very thread) define as per their own fancies. I think it merely reflects a desire to project oneself in a certain manner thru caste-labels (and yet having some self-doubt because the inner conscious will not leave us alone if we try falsified claims).

Or perhaps there is some sort of introspection regarding expectations of a brahmin from the shastra pov, and some sort of an inner trouble that one is unable to live upto it. Or perhaps there is this curiosity reg our hindu social set-up, and the desire to build an ideal world in future. Sorry to say Ravi ji, but IMO, those who are confounded with all these questions are those who want the brahmin label themselves (that is 'brahmins' themselves).

I see Yamaka as someone like me. Someone for whom caste matters maybe just started off as a matter of curiosity, or an academic interest (in sociology and religious history). I hope there will be a seperate sub-forum for people like us to explore caste from various angles including genetic studies.

- For me, I can say that, with Brahmin label am not gonna achieve some thing great. Infact I am feeling sorry for myself to have born in a Brahmin family and have faced social/political challenges of the community.

So there is no desire to have a Brahmin label for me. It has nothing to do with my personal life and social life.

However we debate here, IMHO, the cast system not gonna be ruled out in India atleast for another 15 or 25 years.

Assuming Megha's query as the most urgent need for her knowledge pertaining to possibilities of considering a NB as B by marrying, I asked some questions.


I coudn't guess that you will consider my post as a protection for brahmins, as a desire for holding on the label of brahmins, as a superior complexity of a brahmin.


 
Assuming Megha's query as the most urgent need for her knowledge pertaining to possibilities of considering a NB as B by marrying, I asked some questions.
I also suspect this to be the reason why meghavarshini is repetedly asking the marriage question across threads.

As for predicting removal of caste-system, i agree it will take time...but if within a decade or so of modernity we have come this far, then am sure change is not far off.....

i know i may sound crazy, but am thinking from the astrology pov after 2012 people will desire change and seek truth for a certain time period (age of venus) (before full effects of kaliyuga sets in). Perhaps that is why we are seeing so much interest in caste matters, religion, a general seeking of an "ideal world", even individuals who were corrupt themselves are introspective and want to become free of corruption thanks to anna hazare..
 
An interesting side note is one of the boys was a temple priest whose educational qualification was no more than Veda Patashala. His mom demanded why no girl comes forward to marry her boy even though he makes a good living. A girl who appeared to be Brahmin replied with platitudes about the sacredness of Vedas, but rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest with a perfunctory ஒத்துப்போகாது.
Cheers!
Nara what is not revealed by the girl is her superiority complex. This is the state of the TB Society. While there are plenty out among the B Society, who will talk about the glory of vedas, modern science is little in comparison to spirituality etc. Materialism is blamed for all ills.

However anyone who has modern education and the degrees that correspond with that, feels superior to the people who have had pure vedic education. Atleast these boys had supposedly 8-10 years of brahmacharya and other rules to be followed as a vedic student.

When such is the case. why make this pretension and say that holiness comes with vedas. By heart the modern Bs dont really believe that vedic living is superior to modern life. Heart is at one place, mind is in another place, action is still in a different place.

Pretensions are the order of the day and manifested in fierce defenses of one's community in such threads and forums.

Repeat . repeat and repeat. My conclusions are the same as they keep getting validated by evidences brought forward like in this post of yours

There is not one here in the forum who will be willing to give their daughter in marriage to a vaidika. Such marriages do not happen in my family atleast.

Including the tale of a mother who is looking for a groom for her daughter. She visited the kalakshepam of Vittaldas-Jayakrishna Dikshithar, and made a sad mention of the fact that Jayakrishna dikshithar announced in public a list of 300 vaidikas earning more than 25000 pm and yet remain unmarried. He it seems begged the audience to come forward to give their daughters in marriage to these unmarried vaidikas. Yet of course this mother would not even attempt to speak to her daughter about such alliances( the reason is known to one and all ).

And I have no hesitation to admit that it is because of a superiority complex. Why hide it. then?

How many TB who worry about intercaste marriages really come forward to give their daughter or atleast make a try by talking to their daughters with such proposals? Isnt this kind of alliance , the safest bet of marriage for their caste to be kept pure? I am sure one in these 300 vaidikas will have satisfied horoscope matching and good behavior ? Come on , let us see if the audience here will break their silence?
 
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....Pretensions are the order of the day and manifested in fierce defenses of one's community in such threads and forums.
Yes Subbudu sir, this is what crossed my mind too. The fact the girl rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest out of hand -- not only the girl but her mother too -- is understandable, she is being practical, but what struck me was, before rejecting that idea, they both praised the sanctity of the Vedas and the sacredness of his profession, which seemed totally hypocritical, an observation you made elsewhere and got beaten down.

Cheers!
 
Yes Subbudu sir, this is what crossed my mind too. The fact the girl rejected the idea of marrying a temple priest out of hand -- not only the girl but her mother too -- is understandable, she is being practical, but what struck me was, before rejecting that idea, they both praised the sanctity of the Vedas and the sacredness of his profession, which seemed totally hypocritical, an observation you made elsewhere and got beaten down.

Cheers!
One more thing Nara since this was a recent announcement the offer is still valid. 300 vaidikas of choice. A list for a swayamvaram!
I am personally willing to even get the contact details of Jayakrishna dikshithar( Not that it is difficult to get) to anyone who wants to correspond with him in this matter.
 
One more thing Nara since this was a recent announcement the offer is still valid. 300 vaidikas of choice. A list for a swayamvaram!
I am personally willing to even get the contact details of Jayakrishna dikshithar( Not that it is difficult to get) to anyone who wants to correspond with him in this matter.
Subbudu sir, I agree, this is a true test of the depth of hypocrisy.

However, from the girl's POV, I think it is more to do with the girl fearing the orthodox life style that will come with being the wife of a temple priest and less to do with snobbishness.

Cheers!
 
Nara what is not revealed by the girl is her superiority complex. This is the state of the TB Society. While there are plenty out among the B Society, who will talk about the glory of vedas, modern science is little in comparison to spirituality etc. Materialism is blamed for all ills.

However anyone who has modern education and the degrees that correspond with that, feels superior to the people who have had pure vedic education. Atleast these boys had supposedly 8-10 years of brahmacharya and other rules to be followed as a vedic student.

When such is the case. why make this pretension and say that holiness comes with vedas. By heart the modern Bs dont really believe that vedic living is superior to modern life. Heart is at one place, mind is in another place, action is still in a different place.

Pretensions are the order of the day and manifested in fierce defenses of one's community in such threads and forums.

Repeat . repeat and repeat. My conclusions are the same as they keep getting validated by evidences brought forward like in this post of yours

There is not one here in the forum who will be willing to give their daughter in marriage to a vaidika. Such marriages do not happen in my family atleast.

Including the tale of a mother who is looking for a groom for her daughter. She visited the kalakshepam of Vittaldas-Jayakrishna Dikshithar, and made a sad mention of the fact that Jayakrishna dikshithar announced in public a list of 300 vaidikas earning more than 25000 pm and yet remain unmarried. He it seems begged the audience to come forward to give their daughters in marriage to these unmarried vaidikas. Yet of course this mother would not even attempt to speak to her daughter about such alliances( the reason is known to one and all ).

And I have no hesitation to admit that it is because of a superiority complex. Why hide it. then?

How many TB who worry about intercaste marriages really come forward to give their daughter or atleast make a try by talking to their daughters with such proposals? Isnt this kind of alliance , the safest bet of marriage for their caste to be kept pure? I am sure one in these 300 vaidikas will have satisfied horoscope matching and good behavior ? Come on , let us see if the audience here will break their silence?

Dear Shri Subbudu,

There are some factors which would explain what make up the hesistant attitude of the girls and their parents towards the vaidikas while looking for alliance. The major factor is girls cannot live a modern life style or have to live out of sync with times which is a pressure on them. Also the respect of the profession has gone done considerably. To say that one's husband is a vaidika is something girls cannot today say with the same enthusiasm as saying one's husband is a doctor etc.

Thus the sad fact is those who live modern lifestyle are considered superior and science is considered more authoratative than the vedas. Vedas though down is not out and will never be out. Their rule over the vedas and the perceived superiority is as transient in nature as a cloud covering the sun.

Let us wish that the light begins to shine soon.
 
Subbudu sir, I agree, this is a true test of the depth of hypocrisy.

However, from the girl's POV, I think it is more to do with the girl fearing the orthodox life style that will come with being the wife of a temple priest and less to do with snobbishness.

Cheers!

If that is what is holding some people, I can assure based on personal experiences that there are atleast some vaidikas who dont follow any more orthodox rules for women than is followed by the secular but orthodox Bs.
There may be a few puja rules, but it is the claim by the Bs here that they believe in tradition.

May be the Vaidika husbands may not like it if their wives move around in jeans - but even such an acceptance may be there among many, considering the times. I know of a ganapadigal's daughter who studies in one of the famous colleges in chennai. She , I heard roams around in quite modern dresses. If such families are okay enough to accept such things for their daughters they might atleast grudgingly accept things for their daughter in law- who knows?
 
The major factor is girls cannot live a modern life style or have to live out of sync with times which is a pressure on them. .
This I feel is not such a factor as some Vaidika families are forward looking and even looking positively at such things. Barring widow remarriage most things are accomodated for women in many families.

To say that one's husband is a vaidika is something girls cannot today say with the same enthusiasm as saying one's husband is a doctor etc.

This is the real reason. Why not acknowledge this openly? Personally I dont see any reasons for adjustment problems not withstanding the different qualifications if the boy and girl like each other. I am sure the cooking and day to day life will not be very different from her parent's home.

There is the story of a rebellious Madhva girl( used to wearing even american style dresses) grown up in USA, who married their family sanyasi guru . Her husband was a mutt head but broke his sanyasa vows and was severly condemned by many madhvas including the girl's parents. The boy's side family and his villagers welcomed the marriage. Strange story as it might seem, it is one indication that even such marriages with apparent differences in qualification and lifestyle can work. Then what is difficult about B girls grown up in middle class Indian homes, except the notion of having to marry someone inferior to themselves.
 
"Thus the sad fact is those who live modern lifestyle are considered superior and science is considered more authoratative than the vedas. Vedas though down is not out and will never be out. Their rule over the vedas and the perceived superiority is as transient in nature as a cloud covering the sun." - Sravna said

Science just explains the true nature of matters. Nothing more, nothing less. Science is not trying to rule over Vedas or anything.

However, more and more people believe or perceive that scientific thinking (being analytical and unbiased) is useful than Vedas... hence the Winds of Change is blowing hard...taking people away from Vedas. Which I consider NORMAL, and as inevitability of times.

I don't see any superiority of Science here! The phenomenon is just normal and real, IMO.

Cheers.

ps. I am afraid that Vedas will be totally forgotten in a generation, or two or three!
 
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If that is what is holding some people, I can assure based on personal experiences that there are atleast some vaidikas who dont follow any more orthodox rules for women than is followed by the secular but orthodox Bs.
There may be a few puja rules, but it is the claim by the Bs here that they believe in tradition.

May be the Vaidika husbands may not like it if their wives move around in jeans - but even such an acceptance may be there among many, considering the times. I know of a ganapadigal's daughter who studies in one of the famous colleges in chennai. She , I heard roams around in quite modern dresses. If such families are okay enough to accept such things for their daughters they might atleast grudgingly accept things for their daughter in law- who knows?

Sri Subbudu,

The concern is not only about being able to roam around in modern dresses.

As Sri Sravna has stated in post #92, there are many reasons for the girls to not to prefer a priest as husband.


Modern city life style has been drastically changed and if one's husband found to be a priest, than that would be the most awful feel. My husband is a Engineer/Doctor/Scientist/Pilot etc..etc would not only add to one's pride but guarantees a broad minded husband who's life style is well in synchronization with the modern way of living.

I am sure, majority of guys would be of the same mind set, if females happen to be the priests in temples.

There is nothing to blame on any one, that’s not reasonable too. As we live, so would we be used to and so would be our preferences, for a more comfortable day to day living.

IMO, a fair solution would be that, there should not be any priest hood in the society and all should be living in par with each other. But that would be just a day dream.

Every segment of the society is inter related to each other in some way or other. Many are the reasons behind opting a particularly profession. No one to be blamed. It's just a matter of evolution and a need for happy living for all.

For many of the complications and plight of many people in the society, only time has to answer. As "Time and Tide will wait for no men", the people at receiving end at present days can only be sympathized. Sooner or later things would change and may pose different kinds of challenges, IMO.
 
...There is the story of a rebellious Madhva girl( used to wearing even american style dresses) grown up in USA, who married their family sanyasi guru . .
Subbudu sir, obviously, this must a love marriage. The boy and girl surely knew each other, enough to fall in love and then get married.

The cases we are talking about here are all arranged marriages. The girl has no idea what sort of a man this gurukkal will turn out to be, all she has is the image of temple priest and his family. Even if these girls are given the freedom to dress as they wish, how about the husbands? They may wish to go out in a two-wheeler their husbands dressed up smart and modern, go see a movie and have dinner in a restaurant.

These are ordinary expectations of any young girl. IMO, she must not be made to take a gamble with her life because her father wants to prove he is not a hypocrite.

Cheers
 
Dear Yamaka,

you wrote:

ps. I am afraid that Vedas will be totally forgotten in a generation, or two or three!


I disagree,you can keep counting but Vedas will never be forgotten.
 
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I second Sri Yamaka, sorry Renuka :)


Dear Ravi,
Why you have to be sorry? Dont get it?? You are entitled to your opinion just like how I voiced mine and my dear Ravi boy as I have said before you seem to click like for most posts in a debate and its confusing at times what is really your stand.
So no big deal yaar..be cool dude.
 
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