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Fatalism and Poverty in India

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Interestingly it is not only Hindus who are poor. In fact in India the Muslims are the poorest, as they are in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan and many African countries. In the middle east some are well-to-do just because of the oil wealth, not because of producing anything.

But I will say this: poverty has no religion. We should show compassion to the poor, instead of using it to forward some religious or atheistic agenda.

1. As I said before, people of Abrahamic religions constitute hardly 15% of the total in the India91%.

2. In Haiti, Africa, South and Central America, Catholicism is the root cause of the FATALISM there, and the poverty.

3. Yes, I am compassionate and understanding of the poor and their needs... My agenda is to make their life livable and tolerable. I am trying to find a Solution.

For any Solution, one should understand the Problem comprehensively.. in other words, "Get to the bottom of the issue", as we say in our profession.

This is only my attempt towards that end.

I know a good quality education will convert the entire world towards a Secular Thinking... which will happen sooner or later. Even in India... may be after another 200 years of hard work!

Wait & watch.
 
Folks,

The Catholic issue that is going on in America, that Sri Yamaka references has nothing to do with any poverty issue.

It is all about US Constitution's First Amendment - freedom to practice religion. In the guise of providing health care to all, the Obama Administration is trying to force the institutions run by Catholics to offer free contraceptives, sterilization etc. to their women employees. Catholic religious doctrine is opposed to their women taking even any birth control pills.

Wanted to elaborate so that you all know the issue.

Regards,
KRS
 
Folks,

The Catholic issue that is going on in America, that Sri Yamaka references has nothing to do with any poverty issue.

It is all about US Constitution's First Amendment - freedom to practice religion. In the guise of providing health care to all, the Obama Administration is trying to force the institutions run by Catholics to offer free contraceptives, sterilization etc. to their women employees. Catholic religious doctrine is opposed to their women taking even any birth control pills.

Wanted to elaborate so that you all know the issue.

Regards,
KRS
Mr. KRS
There is mistake in your understanding of the problem.
Catholic institutes, and not catholic Church is protected bt first amendment.

Catholic schools and hospitals have to practice equal employment act, and have non catholic employees. 95% of catholic women use contraceptive devices and pills. The Bishops(old men) are waging a battle on women's sexual choices.
 
Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji,

If only it is so clear cut.

I know the Catholic institutions other than the church operate in the 'secular' arena.

But, most of those institutions are run by Catholic churches.

And folks who work there, do so with this knowledge. Let us give an example.

Let us take an hospital run by the Hare Krishna movement. And they serve only vegetarian food in their hospital, where they hire folks of all persuasions. Then is it your opinion then that on demand they have to serve beef steak in that cafeteria?

Do you think that the government has the power to force them to serve such food?

Regards,
KRS
Mr. KRS
There is mistake in your understanding of the problem.
Catholic institutes, and not catholic Church is protected bt first amendment.

Catholic schools and hospitals have to practice equal employment act, and have non catholic employees. 95% of catholic women use contraceptive devices and pills. The Bishops(old men) are waging a battle on women's sexual choices.
 
Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji,

If only it is so clear cut.

I know the Catholic institutions other than the church operate in the 'secular' arena.

But, most of those institutions are run by Catholic churches.

And folks who work there, do so with this knowledge. Let us give an example.

Let us take an hospital run by the Hare Krishna movement. And they serve only vegetarian food in their hospital, where they hire folks of all persuasions. Then is it your opinion then that on demand they have to serve beef steak in that cafeteria?

Do you think that the government has the power to force them to serve such food?

Regards,
KRS

You can not equate food choice with women's health. In NY and California Hospitals run by churches are already paying for contraception. This is being politicized for the the election. The Bishops thought they set a trap for Obama, but it backfired on them. The majority of American are with the women's choice.

The bishops may be able to prevail on their congregation, but not on their employees.
 
Sri Prasad1 Ji,

Whoa, my dear Sri Prasd1 Ji! First amendment freedom does not vanish on the basis of what is involved, food or healthcare.

By the way, this is not a health issue - pregnancy is not a disease. It is neither an access issue as the women can get these pills/services very easily from other institutions.

The issue is about the choice of conscience. The states you mentioned are ruled by progressive governments. This is a State issue, with State constitution governing the issue. I do not think that the Federal govt. has any business in this.

Of course this has become political.

I think this is a clear cut first amendment issue. Very similar to recent dormitory issue where the Catholic University at D.C was challenged on rejecting the dorm cohabitation.

But of course, we agree to disagree. :)

Regards,
KRS
You can not equate food choice with women's health. In NY and California Hospitals run by churches are already paying for contraception. This is being politicized for the the election. The Bishops thought they set a trap for Obama, but it backfired on them. The majority of American are with the women's choice.

The bishops may be able to prevail on their congregation, but not on their employees.
 
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1. Population is an asset and a capital. It is self regulating; in fact it is preferable to concentrate on other issues - education, living conditions, spare income (other than what is required for basic survival) levels - to stablize population.
2. Natural calamities, war, terror attacks, emigration to less populated lands - are some of the controlling factors.
3. All the developed, economically advanced countries have shrinking population and are worried about it. Influx or import of 'fertile' people from different countries and races will likely lead to social discord and conflict, when they get controlling/ influencing share of the administration.
4. "Parents find it difficult to maintain the requirement of 2.28 children per family to maintain population at current levels. A round figure will be more convenient." Quote from the book on statistics "Facts from figures".
5. Who is the candidate in the US presidential race - who has pledged to discontinue funding of UN population control programme.
 
Dear Ravi and other Theists:

You may deny it...

Because you want to pretend sleeping.. I just can't wake you up, dear Ravi.

More later.

Cheers.

Shri Yamaka,

You seem to be awaken to make Religion/Spirituality vanish with your personal atheistic views that they are utter FATALISTIC. And you seem to be sleeping ignoring the actual reasons and the only sensible and practical sollutions. In your sleep you are dreaming that once Religon/Spirituality been totally removed from India, the corruption in India and the Indian corrupted politics/politician would automatically get changed for better to make India flourish.

I may be pretending sleeping beacuse I could find only one Mr.Anna Hazare who is working towards the betterment of INDIA91% and for the reason that I am not in a poistion and capable to start such movements from my base. But I am absolutely awaken and could figure out the reality and actual causes as an Indian.

I am happy that we all are awaken in some or the other ways that we could feel for the plight of INDIA91% and are sympathetic towards poor folks. At least we all are awaken to spare our time and energy to voice our views for the betterment of 1100 millian Indian folks who are locked up inside the gates of Hell of Poverty.



 
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Sri Prasad1 Ji,

Whoa, my dear Sri Prasd1 Ji! First amendment freedom does not vanish on the basis of what is involved, food or healthcare.

By the way, this is not a health issue - pregnancy is not a disease. It is neither an access issue as the women can get these pills/services very easily from other institutions.

The issue is about the choice of conscience. The states you mentioned are ruled by progressive governments. This is a State issue, with State constitution governing the issue. I do not think that the Federal govt. has any business in this.

Of course this has become political.

I think this is a clear cut first amendment issue. Very similar to recent dormitory issue where the Catholic University at D.C was challenged on rejecting the dorm cohabitation.

But of course, we agree to disagree. :)

Regards,
KRS

Contraceptive devices are not just for birth control only, they are used for other health issues as well. Particularly for bleeding, cramps, tumors, scheduling periods etc. I am sure Renukaji may have a better explanation.
If you think everything a church does is covered by first amendment, why are they forced to abide by equal employment clause. Can a church controlled hospital say that they will only hire whites, or men only?

"In December 2000, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that companies that provided prescription drugs to their employees but didn't provide birth control were in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on the basis of sex. That opinion, which the George W. Bush administration did nothing to alter or withdraw when it took office the next month, is still in effect today—and because it relies on Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, it applies to all employers with 15 or more employees. Employers that don't offer prescription coverage or don't offer insurance at all are exempt, because they treat men and women equally—but under the EEOC's interpretation of the law, you can't offer other preventative care coverage without offering birth control coverage, too."

Most of Obama's "Controversial" Birth Control Rule Was Law During Bush Years | Mother Jones
 
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The world's poorest families are cutting back on food and sending children out to work in order to survive, according to a survey by Save the Children.The survey, conducted by the charity in India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Peru and Bangladesh, provides a snapshot of the hardship that families are facing in countries already experiencing high rates of malnutrition.Soaring prices for food have left a third of parents saying that their children did not have enough to eat.One in six said their children were skipping school to work for food.

'World Hunger Summit' Called For As Food Prices Hit Poorest Families

Poverty knows no religion. Ignorance is the only cause of poverty, and education is the only way out of it. Every religion can be modified, as it is just a practice, not a divine grace.
 
Folks,

I hate to use the red ink. But you have forced me to do just that.

What started as a comment by Sri Ravi Ji, has degenerated in to explanations, counter explanations, uninvited comments by bystanders and even references to the behaviour of a member who is not here to respond.

I thought by letting Sri Ravi Ji and Sowbhagyavathi Amala Ji to talk between themselves, this could have been resolved, but not so.

I hope in the future you all learn to pm each other if you have serious issues with each other's posting, and at least refer any offending post to the Moderators, instead of responding. I also don't understand the urge on some of you folks to do the Moderators' job by freely posting comments about any perceived offenses by others. This only creates work for me.

I am deleting all the posts above, which have added no value to the topic.

Regards,
KRS

 
... First amendment freedom does not vanish on the basis of what is involved, food or healthcare.

[...]

The issue is about the choice of conscience.
To the thread purity police, hold your horses, I just want to respond to brother KRS's views on the above post.

First, the freedoms assured in the constitution are not blanket freedoms without any limits. Let me remind everyone of the oft repeated analogy of shouting fire in a crowded theater.

Similarly, freedom to practice religion also has limits, not just in the institutions run by religious entities, but even in churches, temples, mosques, etc. A simple example is fire code, no church can simply assert religious freedom and exempt itself from complying with these government mandated rules.

Governments, whether federal or state, do have the right to restrict the freedoms guaranteed in the constitution as long as they can show a compelling state interest. The supreme court has established a three tiered system (i) strict scrutiny, (ii) middle-tier scrutiny, and (iii) minimum scrutiny. Depending upon the level of intrusion of the rights one of these levels of scrutiny will apply. In other words, the state can pass a law compelling church and other religious institutions to do what they would consider against their religious teaching, just as long as they can convince at least 5 supreme court justices that it is in the compelling interest of the state.

Coming specifically to the case of contraceptives, the Republicans are trying to frame this as a constitutional issue, but it is not. This is to do with labor laws and tax laws. The government is not compelling that the Catholic Church must run these institutions and must provide these insurance coverage to all women. The rule is, if the Church chooses to run institutions outside their church and become an employer of people, then, like all other employers, they must provide a certain level of health insurance coverage.

Here is an analysis of this issue by a constitutional lawyer, David Boies -- he represented Al Gore in the Bush v. Gore some years ago. KRS may reject his analysis on the sole ground that Boies is a Democrat, but I would like others to give a listen.

Also, brother KRS says "choice of conscience" an ambiguous and broad term. Under such a standard any employer can simply exempt themselves from the laws.

Finally, this unfortunate comment "this is not a health issue - pregnancy is not a disease". I wonder what women and OB/GYN doctors would say about this. Sure, pregnancy is not a disease, and I doubt whether there is one person in this whole wide world who would think that. But, I don't think there is any question pregnancy is a health issue, why then this is a separate field in medicine? Why then do pregnant women see doctors? Why then do women get their babies delivered in a hospital? Yes, in olden days they had their babies at home, I myself was born at home, but not without medical care. Besides, in those days there were no hospital for much of anything, everything was treated at home.

The irony of this whole debate is, it is being widely reported that 99% of women in the U.S. have used contraception at some point or other, and even among Catholic women, 98% of the women in childbearing age use contraceptives. This is a settled issue in the U.S. and these men want to make it an issue again for political gain. But this is going to backfire, Obama is the one who is going to benefit from this debate.

Cheers!
 
If only fatalism and poverty from India could be somehow controlled by women in the US adopting or not adopting birth control measures, how nice it would be! ;)
 
Without getting into the details of your wife's beliefs, I don't think one person can speak for the beliefs of millions of Hindus. Maybe that's what she meant, but somehow you are using that to support the argument that Hindus are casteist in general.

Saying that most Hindus are casteist is the same as saying most Muslims are terrorists or most Jews are usurious. Broad sweeping statements like that labelling entire populations are not arguments. They are really hateful opinions.

Please note that there are very many Reformed Hindus, since 1947 who have moved away from the Casteism, as I indicated before. Yes, their numbers will be in millions as you indicated... I am talking about the rest in the 1.2 billion people.

There are many scholars in this Forum who can authoritatively talk about the History of Casteism in India.

If you insist that Hinduism has nothing to do with Casteism, I will continue to disagree...

Let's leave the matter here.. and focus on the ROOT cause of Poverty in India, the main theme of this Thread.

Peace.

:)
 
<Edtd - KRS>

I agree that the Catholic bishops created this trap for Obama, and Republicans are all over it. Obama may have side stepped the trap, by supporting women's cause.
 
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.. and focus on the ROOT cause of Poverty in India, the main theme of this Thread.

Peace.

:)


The root cause of Fatalism and Poverty in India - CORRUPTION & EXPLOITATION.

This root cause is leading to - No Education, poor education, poor eminities, financial constraints, inequality, goondaism, rowdism. Transgenders are many who are belonging to INDIA91%. If you ask them what is the reason for their poverty, they unanimously would tell you that, it's due to Government of India/discrimination in society. If you ask sex workers the reason for their poverty and continued miserable profession, they would tell you that, its due to inequality in society and lack of goverence/law and order/sex traficking/cheating etc..etc..and these unethical acts are absolutely against the religious/spiritual philosophies. The people who are in unethical / antisocial business / corrupted politicans in Indian durty politics are all acting against spiritual phiolophies. And Shri Yamaka, you are saying that INDIA91% need to be enlightened and made to understand that Religion and Spirituality is FATALISTIC. Hence they should live life rationally ignoring Religion and Spirituality. Do you feel they need to be adviced with your points against religion and spirituality?





 
The root cause of Fatalism and Poverty in India - CORRUPTION & EXPLOITATION.

This root cause is leading to - No Education, poor education, poor eminities, financial constraints, inequality, goondaism, rowdism. Transgenders are many who are belonging to INDIA91%. If you ask them what is the reason for their poverty, they unanimously would tell you that, it's due to Government of India/discrimination in society. If you ask sex workers the reason for their poverty and continued miserable profession, they would tell you that, its due to inequality in society and lack of goverence/law and order/sex traficking/cheating etc..etc..and these unethical acts are absolutely against the religious/spiritual philosophies. The people who are in unethical / antisocial business / corrupted politicans in Indian durty politics are all acting against spiritual phiolophies. And Shri Yamaka, you are saying that INDIA91% need to be enlightened and made to understand that Religion and Spirituality is FATALISTIC. Hence they should live life rationally ignoring Religion and Spirituality. Do you feel they need to be adviced with your points against religion and spirituality?






Dear Ravi:

I will concede to you that Corruption, Exploitation, Goondaism etc are all part of the problem in India... if you go beneath the veneer of all this you will find poor Integrity and Professionalism... then everything will boil down to poor Education (and the attendant poor Skills).

Keep asking why poor Education?

If you keep peeling the core of the problems, POVERTY passed on thru generations and generations will be the answer. This is where I sense the FATALISM of the Organized Ancient Religion(S) come into focus:

"All are Pre-Ordained, Nothing can be done to change this in this world".


If you and other Believers deny this TRUTH, I urge you to reconsider your position.

You may ask me - the Self-Proclaimed Atheist - whether anything good at all emerged from Religions and Spirituality in the past 3500 years?

My answer is

1. Yes, it helped to foster great artists and musicians - Performing and Visual Arts flourished in and around the Temples, Mosques and Churches. Soul songs came up all around us - the devotees were singing in praise of their Lord the God, and asking for favors!

2. Yes, in India, it had a " the so called calming effect" - to keep the masses in a mental state of "I just give up, because this is the Will of my God Almighty".. so much so, NO revolution similar to French Revolution or Cultural Revolution of China ever happened.

Neither did the Industrial Revolution of the West...

Innum varum....

Cheers.

:)
 
Dear Ravi:

I will concede to you that Corruption, Exploitation, Goondaism etc are all part of the problem in India... if you go beneath the veneer of all this you will find poor Integrity and Professionalism... then everything will boil down to poor Education (and the attendant poor Skills).

Keep asking why poor Education?

If you keep peeling the core of the problems, POVERTY passed on thru generations and generations will be the answer. This is where I sense the FATALISM of the Organized Ancient Religion(S) come into focus:

"All are Pre-Ordained, Nothing can be done to change this in this world".


If you and other Believers deny this TRUTH, I urge you to reconsider your position.

You may ask me - the Self-Proclaimed Atheist - whether anything good at all emerged from Religions and Spirituality in the past 3500 years?

My answer is

1. Yes, it helped to foster great artists and musicians - Performing and Visual Arts flourished in and around the Temples, Mosques and Churches. Soul songs came up all around us - the devotees were singing in praise of their Lord the God, and asking for favors!

2. Yes, in India, it had a " the so called calming effect" - to keep the masses in a mental state of "I just give up, because this is the Will of my God Almighty".. so much so, NO revolution similar to French Revolution or Cultural Revolution of China ever happened.

Neither did the Industrial Revolution of the West...

Innum varum....

Cheers.

:)


Shri Yamaka,

You are ignoring to grasp my points and the points clearly shown by others.


Who is telling that - "All are Pre-Ordained, Nothing can be done to change this in this world"

The whole lot of INDIA91%?
Shri Yamaka, just by listening to few dejected folks whom you came in touch with, who all say that "what can we do? We have to suffer like this with Rs.150 a day and no one is here to bother us. So we give up because this is the Will of my God Almighty", you are concluding on your own that INDIA91% is existing on the same grounds. Having fixated with such sayings of few dejected folks you are thinking that, Religion/Spirituality is the core reason for wide spread poverty in India.

For Revolution to happen, we need revolutionist, reformist, honest politicians to Govern the Country without personal motive to fill up their swiss account at the cost of countrymen. For constructive revolution to happen, the country should be well resourcefull and well developed without swindling the money so that intellectuals can be retained in India itself.

Today's politicians are even making money through terrorism/terrorist organisations at the cost of the country. And you are saying that Religious and Spiritual mental make up is restricting all sorts of developments in India.

Politicians need to retain poor, uneducated, innocent and ignorant lot to help them carry out their selfish agenda. To have them to their benefit. And these ignorant poor folks don't mind doing anything for the sake of money. Ironically they don't understand that they are digging their own grave being their politician's party men, hatchet men etc.

Honest politicians and descent politics (atleast to some extent) is required for formulating constructive strategies, policies and schemes for the development of India. Honest and consistent initiatives are required to educate INDIA91% in their personal/social/economical/educational levels. Without all these, talking to them against Religion/Spirituality not gonna serve any purpose. Because these folks themselves knows what is what in reality.

Preaching them against Religion/Spirituality would be meaningless when these folks are hardly bothered about spiritual philosophies. They just want to plan with their limited knowledge/understanding/resources and do any thing out of way to earn money.


Out of INDIA91% hardly 1% will be truly blindfolded with their thinking that God Giveth and Man Taketh to justify their decisions of producing children.

1% of them are not into unethical/anti social activities for earning money.

Majority of INDIA91% thinks that God Giveth and Man Taketh only for any anti social and unethical earning opportunities. The same reason for producing more children is secondary. Many don't even bother to decide how many children they want. They just could get it as much as they could get conceived. As I said in my previous post, they are not prepared to spare their hard earned meager money for contraception as well.

These poor folks need to be enlightened with the understanding of responsible family planning and what's the value of human life. And how a descent, good and ethical living should be made. For all these, they should be supported by honest politicians with their constructive schemes, for the betterment of INDIA91%.





 
Shri Yamaka,

You are ignoring to grasp my points and the points clearly shown by others.


Who is telling that - "All are Pre-Ordained, Nothing can be done to change this in this world"

The whole lot of INDIA91%?
Shri Yamaka, just by listening to few dejected folks whom you came in touch with, who all say that "what can we do? We have to suffer like this with Rs.150 a day and no one is here to bother us. So we give up because this is the Will of my God Almighty", you are concluding on your own that INDIA91% is existing on the same grounds. Having fixated with such sayings of few dejected folks you are thinking that, Religion/Spirituality is the core reason for wide spread poverty in India.

For Revolution to happen, we need revolutionist, reformist, honest politicians to Govern the Country without personal motive to fill up their swiss account at the cost of countrymen. For constructive revolution to happen, the country should be well resourcefull and well developed without swindling the money so that intellectuals can be retained in India itself.

Today's politicians are even making money through terrorism/terrorist organisations at the cost of the country. And you are saying that Religious and Spiritual mental make up is restricting all sorts of developments in India.

Politicians need to retain poor, uneducated, innocent and ignorant lot to help them carry out their selfish agenda. To have them to their benefit. And these ignorant poor folks don't mind doing anything for the sake of money. Ironically they don't understand that they are digging their own grave being their politician's party men, hatchet men etc.

Honest politicians and descent politics (atleast to some extent) is required for formulating constructive strategies, policies and schemes for the development of India. Honest and consistent initiatives are required to educate INDIA91% in their personal/social/economical/educational levels. Without all these, talking to them against Religion/Spirituality not gonna serve any purpose. Because these folks themselves knows what is what in reality.

Preaching them against Religion/Spirituality would be meaningless when these folks are hardly bothered about spiritual philosophies. They just want to plan with their limited knowledge/understanding/resources and do any thing out of way to earn money.


Out of INDIA91% hardly 1% will be truly blindfolded with their thinking that God Giveth and Man Taketh to justify their decisions of producing children.

1% of them are not into unethical/anti social activities for earning money.

Majority of INDIA91% thinks that God Giveth and Man Taketh only for any anti social and unethical earning opportunities. The same reason for producing more children is secondary. Many don't even bother to decide how many children they want. They just could get it as much as they could get conceived. As I said in my previous post, they are not prepared to spare their hard earned meager money for contraception as well.

These poor folks need to be enlightened with the understanding of responsible family planning and what's the value of human life. And how a descent, good and ethical living should be made. For all these, they should be supported by honest politicians with their constructive schemes, for the betterment of INDIA91%.






Dear Ravi:

I guess now we have some clarity and the point of disagreement...that's progress, I guess! Lol. :)

1. My understanding is at least 90% of India91% believes in the Religious FATALISM I described above. You disagree. Fine.

2. Politicians just mirror the People and the Politics that they want to follow. They are one of us only... People elect the politician that they like (on a comparative evaluation in their own mind).

Blaming Politician is just ignoring the People at large. Thus, your argument is totally WRONG and is misleading.

3. The term Spirituality is a loaded one invented and sold by some "higher level thinkers". Lol. India91% is just purely RELIGIOUS of the type: "Kadavul Paarthupar... Elam Avan Seyal" type. Nothing more nothing less.

4. Please elaborate how will you achieve what you wrote in the concluding para above:

What are the "constructive schemes"? How will you find "the honest politicians"? Are they in India of today?

Innum varum...

Cheers.

:)

ps. I want other Believers like dear Sravna chime in on this issue... "FATALISM and Poverty in India"... Is Poverty a Major Issue at all? Can Religious FATALISM be at least one of the major reasons for this deep rooted Poverty in India?

Please get involved! Cheers.
 
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Poverty knows no religion. Ignorance is the only cause of poverty, and education is the only way out of it. Every religion can be modified, as it is just a practice, not a divine grace.

Well said and let me add..Poverty is not a Divine Disgrace.
 
[h=1]Public backs Obama in birth control fight, poll suggests[/h]It's not even close: By a lopsided margin of 66 percent to 26 percent, Americans support President Barack Obama's proposal to require private health insurance plans to cover the full cost of birth control for women, according to a new CBS/New York Times public opinion poll.
 
Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji, and Professor Nara Ji,

First of all, Bill of Rights and the constitution are there to protect the interests of minorities, in this case a religious minority. So, polls here don't mean anything (Sri Prasad Ji, please look at the polls where the question asked is about violating the religious freedom).

Secondly, 'Conscience' here is not anything fanciful or arbitrary as Professor Nara Ji claims. Catholic religion has a Pope and one of that religion's core value has been their stance against contraceptives, sterilization, abortion inducing pills etc. This is not anything new, just dreamed up.

Professor Nara Ji asks, the private institutions run by Catholics don't need to be there. Please read the WSJ article cited below about the legal issues pertaining to such an opinion. I know this is written by Republicans, but it sheds light on why the mandate is against the First Amendmend's charter.

Rivkin and Whelan: Birth-Control Mandate—Unconstitutional and Illegal - WSJ.com

And lastly, this is not a health care issue. It could have been, if it was done properly. But now thanks to the President, this has become a valid First Amendment violation issue.
 
Definitely not.
1. Bharat was a rich and poor-free country till 3 centuries ago; it is still is rich with its natural resources, saved assets and philosophy.
2. Out problem is the corrupt ruling class which is exploiting the very people (depressed class) who voted them to power.
3. There are poor atheists and rich theists.
4. The british disrupted the land holding pattern by their ryotwari and jamindari acts. Modern politicians in nexus with real estate developers are doing the same with rural and urban lands by indiscriminate land classification, control and decontrol.
5. Capital generated by exploiting lines the pockets of politicians, and their cronies. Recent examples are the 2G scam, commonwealth games scam, praful patel-air india-canadian businessman scam - the list is endless.
6. If all the money earned by the cheat politicians and saved in safe havens is seized and put to eradication of poverty - food/ housing security, free education, minimim cash dole for the poor - visible and perceived poverty will vanish.
7. Some of the corrupt politicians and business folk are religious (all faiths) and their faith in fatalism has made them rich.


:)
"FATALISM and Poverty in India"... Is Poverty a Major Issue at all? Can Religious FATALISM be at least one of the major reasons for this deep rooted Poverty in India?
Please get involved! Cheers.
 
Dear Ravi:

I will concede to you that Corruption, Exploitation, Goondaism etc are all part of the problem in India... if you go beneath the veneer of all this you will find poor Integrity and Professionalism... then everything will boil down to poor Education (and the attendant poor Skills).
No, you will meet Corruption, Exploitation and mis information. If this is the root cause, how can you go around
peeling further?

Keep asking why poor Education?

If you keep peeling the core of the problems, POVERTY passed on thru generations and generations will be the answer. This is where I sense the FATALISM of the Organized Ancient Religion(S) come into focus:

"All are Pre-Ordained, Nothing can be done to change this in this world".

No, you will come back to Corruption, exploitation and vested interest, and since you are unable to break through this barrier, you perhaps might feel or think so, but deep within people will feel helpless, not for what they are ordained to, but how well knit the corruption is.
 
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