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Fatalism and Poverty in India

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<edited and removed. please refrain from posting comments that are aimed at provoking others. - praveen>
 
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Quite rightly he meant it for the 'patriotic Hindu’s ' to whom it makes sense
Not to those obsessed with reading unwritten things or for the mind with prejudice filled up to the brim
ozone, <edited> if you have something to say to me, do so openly and lets have at it. <edited and removed. once again, please refrain from posting comments that can be seen as a personal insult. - praveen>
 
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ozone, I am tired of your constant cowardly sniping, if you have something to say to me, do so openly and lets have at it. Otherwise, you are nothing but a spineless coward.
Nara, I have no interest in wrestling with you. Neither is it my burden to energise you.
I write here to give readers a perspective different from what you provide where I deem it. It is for them to choose and decide.
 
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Brahminical feelings must sprout out more often, whether some wince or spray.

Let there be more insufferable clowns like swamy who voice hindu sentiments. If some find it obnoxious gas, so be it.
 
Nara, I have no interest in wrestling with you. Neither is it my burden to energise you.
I write here to give readers a perspective different from what you provide where I deem it. It is for them to choose and decide.
<edited and removed. plz refrain from calling others by names. - praveen>
 
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uncle yams, there is a difficulty in answering to your question with a straight yes/no. have a look at the below argument and logical derivative about fatalism wrote by philosopher Origen in line with Aristotelian thoughts.

by any chance if you had tried writing CAT exams, i bet you will definitely agree with me, once you have done with the deductions of this below said logics.


  • If it is fated for you to recover from this illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.
  • Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so whether you call a doctor or not.
  • But either it is fated that you will recover from this illness, or it is fated that you will not recover.
  • Therefore it is futile to consult a doctor.

this infers,that, even if one believes in fatalism, still he would look out for a solution, in spite of his belief on his fate.

so, uncle yams, if you wish to prove that 'fatalism is the root cause of poverty in india', then you need to break this logical argument :) trust we both will stay tuned to this point

Dear Shiv:

The topic of Poverty in India and in most of the Third World is very near and dear to me..

My son Skypes frequently from Haiti about what he sees there:

The same observation as he had in Konganapuram ( near Salem, TN) where he spent a Summer there: That poor families have too many kids (3-5 per family). Most poor are born into poverty, and the cycle proceeds forward endlessly.

In Haiti Catholic RF is responsible, he contends, and in India it is the RF propounded by Hinduism, Islam & Christianity, I propose.

Yes, I agree with you that it will be very difficult to PROVE all this contentions... Then, what's the Solution?

I propose that whatever may be the Cause of the Poverty, let each of the families in India9% adopt 5-10 families of India91% to "guide them thru having small families (1-2 kids) and educating the kids thru High School, at least".

This will need some long term financial commitments, and needs to be done via responsible NGOs in India.

That's what I am planning to do with the help of my son: We want to adopt about 100 families from poor religious families in rural TN near Konganapuram and in Ramnad Tk.

More later...

Cheers.

:)
 
Thanks for confirming you are a spineless coward.

Dear N:

Sorry to get in here.

I must say this: You, dear HH, Kunjuppu and Sangom Sir all know Hinduism from inside out, and can make very knowledgeable observations and authoritative arguments and comments.. and you are all very bold personalities...

That's exactly what irks most of your critics in this Forum.... they all want you to TALK UP Hinduism and toe the lines of Hindutva personalities (Hindutva = Political Hinduism) like Sub Swamy.

Alas.. you all hate political Hinduism, as I hate political Islam.

Take it easy.

Cheers.

:)
 
...That's exactly what irks most of your critics in this Forum.... they all want you to TALK UP Hinduism and toe the lines of Hindutva personalities (Hindutva = Political Hinduism) like Sub Swamy.

Alas.. you all hate political Hinduism, as I hate political Islam.
Dear Y, you make a fantastic point. K made some comparisons between India and China on economic matters, and the jingoistic gang saw it as putting India down and were out to get him with their steely knives. India belongs to all of us, not just those Dharma Shashtra thumpers. They don't own the right to define what it is to love India and what it is not. One of the reasons for K leaving is the aftermath of that exchange.

Muslims are a beleaguered minority all across India. They are our brethren and we all are our brother's and sister's keepers. There are some extremists among them, no doubt, but there are extremists among the Hindus as well -- the recent revelations about the bombing of Samjota Express is a case in point, and who can forget the gruesome murder of the Australian missionaries in Orissa by the Bajrang Dal.

The Muslim zealots kept Rushdie out of India, and the Hindu zealots, a whole lot of them, threw M.F. Hussain out of India, and I daresay there are many in this forum as well who support that.

The case Swamy makes for some mythical age when varna ruled supreme for the benefit of the society is what Brahmnical supremacy is all about. Even in their imagined perfect society personified by Rama Rajya, a Shudra had to be mercilessly beheaded for the only crime of seeking Vedic knowledge, and Swamy pines for such a society and criticizing that makes you prejudiced to the rim.

Dirt poor Muslims and dirt poor Dalits have more in common with dirt poor Devars or Vanniyars or Brahmins. I have been to such Brahmin houses, living in abject poverty. These dirt poor people, whether Muslim or Devar or Vanniayar or Brahmin, they are exploited by their own kind, Muslim, Devar, Vaniyar and Brahmin, who are rich. I am personally familiar with one such rich Brahmin family from whose family arose a great revered Jeeyar!!

As James Carville famously declared, "it is the economy stupid". Varna/jAti system, and religion, keeps the poor separated and ignorant, so that the rich and powerful can keep the poor at each others throats allowing the rich to continue to expropriate their labor. Swamy, for all his spunk to go after selected political elite, which I do admire, in the final analysis, is no more than a nostalgic Varna/Hindutva apologist, yearning to return to this feudal system of exploitation.

The politics of division practiced by the likes of Swamy and his Hindutva cohorts, is not good for India.

All said and done, there is no need for any of us to waste another word on Swamy because of the fact his political influence is between zero and nil.

might I say innum varum :)

Cheers!
 
Intellectuals have nil political clout; it is well known. Only criminals, corrupts and anti nationals and those abetting corruption have political power. Some refuse to see that there are rich dalits, poor dalits, rich brahmins and poor brahmins. What swamy said about tyaga, and sharing has gone over the head. No doubt it is viewed as obnoxious gas by the enlightened.

Raja is a dalit and is worth at least 500 crores. Karunanidhi several times that amount. Mayavati is a dalit and is a classic case of lightning growth. Modi and uma bharati (both dalits) have not used their position and power to earn illegal wealth or assets, because they are rooted in sanatana dharma.

99% of the terrorist acts (riots, bombs) are by jehadi muslims and naxalites (with church support). Citing one instance against hundred glaring instances will not fool anyone. Hindus are a tolerant community. Lakhs of kashmiris driven out of their native land are living in refugee camps or scattered all over, many without voting rights. Millions of illegal bangladeshi infiltrators are given protection and voting rights by the same corrupt politicians.
 
In a tv interview mf hussain said that he was opting for quatar citizenship because he wanted sponsors for three projects he had in mind and was not leaving india because of the controversies.

Non bailable warrant for his arrest was issued when he did not respond to court summons; even this arrest warrant was cancelled by the supreme court. There was no threat to kill him as is the case with rushdie in the recent jaipur conference. The festival organiser said in tv that the islamists had mixed with the audience and had vowed to destroy the venue if rushdy's attended the conference or participated in the proposed video conference.

Hatred for hindus must not make one blind to realities.
****
[h=3]Leaving India, Qatar nationality and projects[/h]A series of cases were brought against Husain and a court case related to the alleged obscene depiction of Hindu goddesses in his paintings resulted in issuing a non-bailable warrant against him after he failed to respond to summons. There were also reportedly death threats.[SUP][33][/SUP][SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP]
Husain, who left India stating that "matters are so legally complicated that I have been advised not to return home",[SUP][36][/SUP] had been living abroad in self-exile since 2006.[SUP][37][/SUP] He had expressed a strong desire to come back, despite fears that he may be arrested in connection with the cases against him.[SUP][37][/SUP] Later a recent Supreme Court order suspended an arrest warrant for Husain.[SUP][38][/SUP] In absence of dual citizenship, Union Home Secretary, GK Pillai, said that MF Husain was free to come back and would be provided security if he requested it.[SUP][39][/SUP]
Qatari nationality was conferred upon him at the insistence of Qatar’s ruling family and had been living in Doha, spending his summers in London. He traveled freely except to India. His work in Qatar was mostly towards two large projects, the history of Indian civilization and the history of Arab civilization, the latter was commissioned by Qatar’s first lady – Sheikha Mozah bint Nasser al Missned, wife of the Qatar’s ruler, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani. The works are to be housed in a museum in Doha.[SUP][40]

M. F. Husain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/SUP]
 
Well said Sri Sarang. For those who want to see filth they go only in search of it, and as you say everything else
goes overboard. The cry in wilderness about supremacy is nothing but a desparate cry to take them as supreme.
For those who cannot find anything useful in what their ancestors followed, these claims of authoritative-ness are nothing
but shallow and cheap. You can therefore image their respect for others.Their agendas are never genuine.
 
Hussain does not keep his promises when hindus are concerned, but accedes to the request of fellow muslims, when they object and withdraws his film.
[h=3]
Mother India
In the 6 February 2006 issue, India Today, a national English weekly published an advertisement titled "Art For Mission Kashmir". This advertisement contains a painting of Bharatmata (Mother India) as a nude woman posed across a map of India with the names of Indian States on various parts of her body. The exhibition was organised by Nafisa Ali of Action India (NGO) and Apparao Art Gallery.[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][citation needed][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP] Organizations like Hindu Jagruti Samiti and Vishva Hindu Parishad(VHP) have protested persistently against Husain displaying the painting on the websites and even in exhibitions in north Europe. As a result, Husain apologized and promised to withdraw the painting from an auction, which was later sold for Rs 80 lakh in the auction.[SUP][29][/SUP][SUP][30][/SUP] The painting later appeared on Husain's official website.


Meenaxi: A Tale of Three Cities
[/h]Husain's film Meenaxi: A Tale of Three Cities[SUP][31][/SUP] was pulled out of cinemas a day after some Muslim organisations raised objections to one of the songs in it.[SUP][32][/SUP] The All-India Ulema Council complained that the Qawwali song Noor-un-Ala-Noorwas blasphemous. It argued that the song contained words directly taken from the Quran. The council was supported by Muslim organisations like the Milli Council, All-India Muslim Council, Raza Academy, Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Hind and Jamat-e-Islami. Husain's son stated that the words were a phrase referring to divine beauty that were being sung by the central character played by Tabu. He said there was no intention to offend. Following the wave of protests the enraged artist withdrew his movie from cinemas.

 
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