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GENDER EQUALITY - in India - what we practice and what is on paper

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Sure Renu!
We need cultural conditioning; otherwise humans will be like 'stone age people' / animals!! :fear:

Dear RR ji,

Actually being like an animal is better.

You see most animals only mate for begetting progeny during a season...it is humans that mate for no rhyme or reason.

Animals do not abort their children too.

It is the human with uncontrollable lust and not animals.


Just to add..cultural conditioning is like icing on a cake...it only covers the cake but the cake remains the same.

So the inner core nature of most humans are the same...it all depends on the Vesham we adopt or the lack of opportunity that makes the majority of us are good!LOL
 
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Dear RR ji,


I have noted in prayer places people meet up with others and talk well to each other.

Even when I was younger I used to think...this person's wife is talking to that person's husband and each are calling each other brother and sister.

I used to think this is all harmless "flirting" cos the human mind needs appreciation from the opposite sex even though it might not be sexual in nature.

Opposites always attract..I have noticed most Indian mothers somehow connect better to their sons than daughters..Indian fathers dont count as much in all these cos they are always busy reading the newspapers!LOL

Ok even sons have a deeper attachment to their mothers as compared to their fathers...these relationship of mother and son is not sexual but yet a relationship of any kind is strongest when it is between the opposite sex...so that shows that humans need the opposite sex or who they perceive as opposite of them(passive gays might feel feminine within and get attracted to a male..for him the male is the "opposite" sex).

I used to tell my mother before when I was teen that in a prayer hall everyone talks freely to each other exchanging stories etc and it does seem that opposites attracts and obviously she got angry with me for saying that.

So you see it is fun analyzing human behavior and I feel in this world there is no 100% platonic relationship between male and female...even our closets friend there is bound to be some amount of attraction even though it might not be sexual.

We must just be sincere enough to ask ourselves.
 
I don't think we should completely generalise women or even men on the basis of how we are. Everyone is different although there some generalisations.
 
I don't think we should completely generalise women or even men on the basis of how we are. Everyone is different although there some generalisations.

Dear Amala,

Though I agree with you to a certain extent...There has been studies done on human behavior and it is not based just on the experience of one man or one woman.

The link given by Naina sir is quite a good study.
 
Explosive titles like that surely must attract more readership for the wonderful "rag" that is the Daily Mail. Oh what will we do without it :D
 
Explosive titles like that surely must attract more readership for the wonderful "rag" that is the Daily Mail. Oh what will we do without it :D

Yup you are right..it exploded and the sharpnel landed on all of us and here we are in this thread discussing about it!LOL
 
.......... It is the human with uncontrollable lust and not animals........
Dear Renu,

Humans are made like that! So unless there is some control, hell will break loose!

Probably, that is how the cultural conditioning came into effect! :angel:

P.S: Don't we say that female molesters should face severe punishment? :whip:
 
I'm really not sure if a female is best suited for monogamy or not, but looking around me, I can surely say it is in her best interest imho.

dear amala,

i am curious as to why you feel that way. if you dont mind, let us know the reasons, 'why monogamy is in the best "interest: of the woman'.. thank you.
 
I'm really not sure if a female is best suited for monogamy or not, but looking around me, I can surely say it is in her best interest imho.
I agree -- in as much as the purpose of life (not consciousness) is to survive and procreate, faithfulness is the best policy for both male and female and we have evolved through natural selection to value monogamy.

best ...
 
dear amala,

i am curious as to why you feel that way. if you dont mind, let us know the reasons, 'why monogamy is in the best "interest: of the woman'.. thank you.
Since Nara mama has answered I hope I'm not on the stand anymore :D. No but seriously I see single mums who left their partners because he wasn't faithful or "monogamous" if you like. I personally have some very good friends who are in polygamous marriages in Malaysia (as you know Muslims are allowed). It has its advantages perhaps, but overall they envy wish their partner was monogamous too. Its working for some communities to be polygamous but are the women really really happy? I'm not too sure.
 
dear amala,

i am curious as to why you feel that way. if you dont mind, let us know the reasons, 'why monogamy is in the best "interest: of the woman'.. thank you.

Shri Kunjuppu, Kum. Amala,

Though humans have a very oustanding account of their progress, civilization, scientific achievements and so on, the humans entered the scene just a few seconds before (Humans have walked the Earth for 190,000 years, a mere blip in Earth's 4.5-billion-year history.—Prehistoric Time Line, Geologic Time Scale, Photos, Facts, Maps, and More -- National Geographic).

The underlying nature of man has, therefore, had not enough time to change to suit his intellectual and scientific achievements. Man remains ape-like and perhaps that is why aping comes so easily to us!

Both man and woman were in group marriages in ancient times, something like a cooperative effort! Motherhood was seen and known but father's role was not understood in those hazy beginnings, and hence such societies were matrileneal. As and when cultivation of land and animal husbandry were learnt and got practised, it must have given rise to organized villages. Then when agriculture produced surpluses and some kind of primitive market economy came into being, the small towns must have originated. Somewhere along these developments, the role of the male in reproduction was learnt by man and the society moved from matrilenial to patrilineal.

The system or compulsion on monogamy which, in turn, necessitated both the male & female to stick to one sexual partner, came very late - as exemplified by the polyandrous Draupadi and monogamous SeetA in our epics although we consider Ramayana to be earlier.

Human beings are still innately made for more than one sex partner but for many practical economic and health reasons monogamy has gained acceptance.
 
Since Nara mama has answered I hope I'm not on the stand anymore :D. No but seriously I see single mums who left their partners because he wasn't faithful or "monogamous" if you like. I personally have some very good friends who are in polygamous marriages in Malaysia (as you know Muslims are allowed). It has its advantages perhaps, but overall they envy wish their partner was monogamous too. Its working for some communities to be polygamous but are the women really really happy? I'm not too sure.

dear amala,

i am sorry that i was not clear.

i was clearly looking at the mirror image here.. ie a woman having several husbands ie polyandry. i agree that polygamy sucks. but thought women might not mind polyandry..after all we have draupadi and her cohorts in our epics..dont we? :)

sincerest greetings to nara. i am the last to wish his welcome back, but hopefully not the least :)
 
K Sir have you heard women who are in a relationship/marriage moan how even one husband/partner is enough! or women who are in a polygamous marriage rejoicing that husband is spending the week with another wife! :D. I have!! Lol Do you honestly think they would be keen on polyandry? I have my doubts, but then again we can't generalise :D
 
i was clearly looking at the mirror image here.. ie a woman having several husbands ie polyandry. i agree that polygamy sucks. but thought women might not mind polyandry..after all we have draupadi and her cohorts in our epics..dont we? :)


Dear Kunjs,


If we analyse human behaviour(leaving the "morals" out for a while)..most humans feel in control when they make the rules.

That gives the person the endorphin rush which sustains the feels good phenomenon in his/her system.

I had a patient a few days ago who told me that he is looking for a girl to get married again.

He is a Muslim and I asked him if his wife would consent and not get upset.

His reply was 'I make the rules..I am in charge"

Humans long to be in charge as in making the rules..that is why we see people trying to get to the top in any organization.

We humans still have our primal mentality of wanting to "lead the herd"...the Alpha Male or the Alpha Female.

When we are in charge..we feel good..when we are at the mercy of others it sucks.

So Polygamy will suck for a woman but not for a guy.

Polyandry will suck for a guy but not for a woman.


Moral conditioning at times just masks the true human psychology sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

I think we are quite familiar how an elephant chained with a thin metal chain since young..thinks that it is bound and not able to break free when in reality it has the strength to break free any time.

That is psychology at the Physical level..that we might not know who we really are within..and at an Atmic level we do not realize that we have the capacity to be Free and still feel bound in the Ocean of Sansar.

My posts about this topic is based on the primal basic psychology of humans since I am a doctor and know this field fairly well..so for all practical purposes my posts might not represent the present day standards of morals and hence no generalization and neither am I recommending anyone to practice polyandry or polygamy.
 
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...... My posts about this topic is based on the primal basic psychology of humans since I am a doctor and know this field fairly well. ..........
Dear Renu,

Experience in our lives is enough to know human psychology and it does not need a degree in medicine!
I have seen a child who refuses to sit on the laps of one particular mAmA!! :fear:
 
Dear Renu,

Experience in our lives is enough to know human psychology and it does not need a degree in medicine!
I have seen a child who refuses to sit on the laps of one particular mAmA!! :fear:


Dear RR ji,

Yes you are right..experience in life can over ride even knowledge acquired from a degree.

Human psychology is a very complex topic and one might need to at least have a special interest in to come to a definite diagnosis..and in my post I wrote :
since I am a doctor and know this field fairly well. ..........
I left the options open..that is I wrote I know it Fairly well...I did not write that I know it Very well cos I know that education is a continuous process and it does not end and also experiences as you rightly said adds to knowledge.


Now coming to the child not wanting to sit on the Mama..what could be the possible reasons?

Karma or the child was Prahlad and the Mama was Hiranyakshipu in their previous birth?LOL
 
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Dear RR ji,

Just one more thing I forgot to highlight.

With regards to this paragraph of mine:

My posts about this topic is based on the primal basic psychology of humans since I am a doctor and know this field fairly well..so for all practical purposes my posts might not represent the present day standards of morals and hence no generalization and neither am I recommending anyone to practice polyandry or polygamy.


Ok this Paragraph of mine above is sort of a disclaimer sorts and the mention of my profession was just to highlight that it is from the medical point of view with regards to human psychology and not that I know it better than anyone else .... further more I would not want to blamed anytime later for promoting polyandry and polygamy and painting everyone with the same brush.
 
Dear Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

You said:
So Polygamy will suck for a woman but not for a guy.

Polyandry will suck for a guy but not for a woman.

Really? do you think so?

In my experience, (I am a one woman guy), this is something I can never experience in a marriage.

Marriage to me is a total commitment to ONE person, being consumed with that person, at all levels: intellectually, spiritually, emotionally and physically. Absent any one of these from my consort, I would perhaps then fulfill that aspect I am missing, may be with another person, but then, I can not call that person my consort.

I do not understand, personally, the logic behind both of these styles of unions. May be it is just me. Just the thought of having multiple wives, let alone two, and what it entails, sickens me.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

You said:


Really? do you think so?

In my experience, (I am a one woman guy), this is something I can never experience in a marriage.

Marriage to me is a total commitment to ONE person, being consumed with that person, at all levels: intellectually, spiritually, emotionally and physically. Absent any one of these from my consort, I would perhaps then fulfill that aspect I am missing, may be with another person, but then, I can not call that person my consort.

I do not understand, personally, the logic behind both of these styles of unions. May be it is just me. Just the thought of having multiple wives, let alone two, and what it entails, sickens me.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS ji,


I live in a country where polygamy is legal for Muslims.

I have seen and know many men who have 2 or more wives.

I had worked in a hospital once where a surgeon had 3 wives all 3 wives were professionals too.

One night it was the Ramadhan fasting month and after breaking fast he had to come for an emergency surgery and he was telling us that he felt he over ate during breaking fast cos he had to eat in each house..that is 3 houses!

So some are happy with this arrangement..it works for them and it suits their mindset.

But polygamy is not totally a taboo in our Hindu society..even sages had more than 1 wife like for example Yajnavalkya had 2 wives one who was the housewifey type and the other Maitreyi his intellectual counterpart.

But again I wonder when we humans are capable of loving all our children why shouldn't it be impossible to love more than 1 spouse?

To some people marriage is like a kingdom..they want to extend borders too.
 
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Why monogamy?

Creationists and evolutionists don’t agree on much, but they both believe that monogamy is the most stable form of reproduction for the human species. Some nesting birds, voles, and a few other animals are monogamous, but most mammals reproduce with one dominant male controlling a large harem of females. Polygamy seems “natural,” monogamy “supernatural.”

Evolutionary scientists claim that pair-bonding (as in a monogamous marriage) is part of the “deep structure” of human reproduction that humans have evolved as their best strategy for survival and success. So, what are the factors that would commend monogamy?

a) Unlike most other animals, humans crave sex all the time, especially when young and most fertile. They don’t have a short rutting or mating season, followed by a long period of sexual quietude.

b) Unlike most other animals, human babies are born weak, fragile, and utterly dependent for many years. They are not ready to run, swim, or fly away upon birth or shortly thereafter. They need food, shelter, clothing, and education. Most human mothers struggle to care for their children on their own, especially if they already have several other children. They need help, especially from the fathers of the children.

Most fathers will bond and help with a child only if they are certain of their paternity. Experiments have shown that if you put a baby in a crib on a street-sidewalk, most women will stop to look at the baby out of natural empathy, but most men will walk by or walk away, unless they are unusually charitable. Once assured of their paternity, however, most men will bond deeply with their children, help with their care and support, and defend them at great sacrifice. Why? They will likely consider their children as a continuation and extension of themselves, of their name, property, and teachings, of their own bodies and beings, of their genes.

c) Unlike virtually all other animals, humans seem to engage in species-destructive behavior in pursuit of their own sexual gratification.

Evolution therefore appears to strongly favour humans to develop enduring and exclusive sexual relationships, call it as marriages, as the best form and forum of sexual bonding and reproductive success. Monogamous marriages are designed to ensure that both fathers and mothers are certain that a baby born to them is theirs. They ensure that husband and wife will together care for, nurture, and educate their children until they mature.

Of course, polygamy might ensure paternal certainty. While a polygamous man usually has his sexual needs met, his multiple wives often do not, producing rivalry and discord in the home. While a polygamous father may know who his children are, his children have to work hard to get his attention, affection, and resources which are dissipated over multiple wives and children.

But the reality today is that people, encouraged by a permissive society/sexual revolution, have sex and children without marriage. The modern social welfare state has helped to buffer and spread out the costs of this “species-destructive” sexual and reproductive behavior. With many Western societies in economic doldrums, how long that support will last is anybody’s guess.
 
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