God Exists

[KRS]

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Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I did not say that the impersonal God would be asking for prayers, but yet the impersonal God again is a supposition based on cause and effect. But just to add. We really do not know about this SNA, do we? As much as it is intellectually neat to discuss about this entity as impersonal, it could really be a a big computer sitting there, in the far heavens controlling everything!

Seriously no one knows. But I agree personally with this:

On the other hand, if you mean a belief in an impersonal SNA is but a logical step away from belief in a personal God, then I do agree, and I insist that it is the very reason why we must nip it in the bud and not accede to even this impersonal SNA, otherwise, we may inevitably descend into the irrational notion of a personal God who cares to assist you if only you pray to it in a sycophantic manner.

But I disagree with you on one thing in the above statement. Like suicide bombers, praying for results is a self limiting proposition. When one relizes that God can not really give you passing marks in an exam, when you turned in a blank paper, reality sets in. You start maturing spiritually.

Regards,
KRS

 

[happyhindu]

Though one is highly prudent, have tendencies to work hard, be honest and skill full in work; there are something called "Opportunities" and "Certainity/Stability". Other than these there is something called "Being alert and hitting the rod when it is hot".

Opportunities-Certainity/Stability in the process of progress-Alertness are the factors that revolves around Karma theory more severely than that of one's mental caliber. "GOOD LUCK" and "BAD LUCK" may come and go but the only thing that determines the net results in our life is purely based of our past and present karma.

What a soul has to learn? What a soul can/has to accomplish? What sort of survival a soul should undergo right from birth to death? When and how a soul can/has to get and lose? How and what sort of pains and pleasures a soul has to experience? etc.etc. are the factors that influences one's wholesome life, dosen't matter what sort of mental caliber/skills/knowledge a person has been offered with during his/her life time.

As such we can find dim and below average students who remained as such through out their learning stage; progressing well in some way, accomplishing as much as possible and leading a peaceful and happy life to their heart content without any constraints. Similarly we can find many highly qualified people who all are briliant, having right attitude and required skills; finding themselves between the jobs often, undergoing distress and frustruation, getting cought in issues/legal complications though being innocent etc. etc. And in some cases they find themselves leading a sorrowful and complicated life till their end.

A person can well say that he/she does not believe in the existence of God, can say that he/she can go through any harsh circumstances of life without resorting to prayers/bhajans with their strong mind and heart, can well consider random phenomena of good and bad in one's life as something that are illogical and unreasonable. Or a person can well believe in the existence of God, do prayers/bhajans and believe in Past and Present Karma. These all has nothing to do with what a person is destined to get and lose in his/her life.

Tactical/rational brain power and the thoughts and perceptions derived from it may synch. well or contradict with what the heart feels deep within, from time to time. That's how the decisions that we take in our life may differ from what our rational brain could sense to act and react.

God and spirituality is related to the purest transmitting impulses of the Heart that can work towards realization of God and stimulates the brain further for intense practices & realizations.

The need of God and spirituality would differ only with what and how much one want's to acheive with it? And what one understands about the purpose of God/Spirituality in human's life?

Dear Ravi,

Nice post.

The sentence in bold will apply only if theists are good people. Unfortunately we see both good and bad people amongst theists. So God is no guarantee for "transmitting impulses" of the heart or any other organ for whatever means to an end.

Further, the need of God is not found in Buddhists and Jains. Both these religions lay emphasis on self-realisation. Hence they are a practical example, to show that presence of god has nothing to do with personal qualities, intense practices and realisations.

Then again, amongst these religions too, you find both good and bad people. So being a jain, hindu, buddhist or whatever religion, is no guarantee to anything 'good' (in terms of qualities, realisation, etc). Perhaps it all depends on the individual self, how he/she wishes to be....

Let me also recount an example how different people may approach the same point. Sometime back i met some buddhist monks wandering about in a frozen food section in a shopping place. I was curious why wud monks visit such places. We got talking.

On vegetarianism, one monk said empathy is man's natural nature. It comes automatically if one is conscious of his thots, words, actions. This, he said was 'realisation'. If a man is conscious in this way, he wud show empathy for animals which do not wish to kill us.

I cud not help thinking how different this religion was from the brahmanical religion which sacrificed animals. Also cud not help thinking how some folks take 'pride' in vegetarianism. Additionally was wondering how can 'empathy' be something that one takes 'pride' in.

I realised the difference how some hindus and some buddhists approach the same point of vegetarianism in different ways. The concept of God too is the same.

Different people approach 'God' or 'God concept' differently. Being theist or being atheist is no guarantee to realisations of any sort.

In puranas, itihasas, evil has to be killed. If one starts exploring what is evil, in puranic and epic literature, i suppose realisations wud differ -- everything is relative...

 

[ShivKC]

Dear Sri ShivKC Ji,

That is exactly what I said in my prior posts regarding luck and atheism. I even gave an example of the 'heads or tails'.

I do not want anyone's submission. No one is going to change anyone else's fundamental views here. What we are doing is to banter, with perhaps some interesting angle or information popping out now and then. That's all.

Regards,
KRS

sh.krs, thanks for taking effort to address this simple issue. while agree in major with you, the only point which was worrying me, is the one below.

"As an atheist, he does not even want to acknowledge the role of 'luck' in his life!"".

this is not a simple topic to be accepted with a wink of an eye (or) to expect some one to acknowledge, just by presenting one or two eg.

a discussion about 'luck in atheism', would run to few thousand posts, like this same god thread.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka Ji,

Please read the above conversation between me and Professor Nara Ji. That will show light on my response to your questions.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS:

1. In my view, the SNA (the God - as described by the Holy Books of Puranas, Koran and Bible) is non-existent. It's the creation of man-made Religions, period.

2. Because of my answer to Qn 1, this Qn 2 is irrelevant.

3. Based on the above, the Super Natural Agent - the God - is totally absent in my mind and thoughts. That's that Entity is just a FICTION in the minds of the Believers.

You know I have been saying that I am a self-proclaimed Atheist - a Non-Believer.

Please note, my definition of God given in 1 above. That's very important.

Where is your argument? You have not stated your answers at all!

Regards.

Y

 

[guruvayurappan]

Dear Ashwin, Yourself and Shri servall, both have some emotional outburst which makes you doubt the existence of god. When an unnatural death occurs, and by that I mean here the death of a younger person while elders are alive, it is normal for many to condole saying 'kaDavuLukku kaNNillai' or something to that effect. But that is not the truth. God cannot be omnipotent, omniscient and all compassionate, all at the same time, which is what the traditional beliefs tell everyone and then cleverly shift the blame on to "poorva janma karma" of the affected person, the moment there is an incident showing god's insufficiency in one or more of the three cardinal aspects referred to above. For example, lakhs of people including some very devout persons, perish in earthquakes, air accidents, 9/11, etc., but god does nothing to forewarn all those devout persons, nor does he bring about some circumstances in which the devout repair from the quake area/flight/accident site to safer places. If at all man with his seismograms is the one who does at least some forewarning, if possible. Then there is the usual question/perennial doubt of "why bad things happen to good people?". Here again hinduism will answer via poorva janma karma or some related thing. But whatever the explanations be, one thing that will stand out is that God is a very unreliable insurance company and when the insurance is most needed He will be absconding. The only other explanation may be that god is not at all influenced by all these shows of devotion, bhakti, religiosity, etc., and he follows some, as yet unknown, rule. Take whichever line you want, you will find ultimately that there cannot be a god who is omnipotent, omniscient and all compassionate, all at the same time. My loss of faith in the god concept did not come about in circumstances similar to yours or that of Shri servall. I have suffered a lot in my life and have been able to come upto a lower middle class life of a pensioner and all this while I had lukewarm religiosity. It is only after I started reading hindu scriptures and books on this subject, that I found it more and more rational to discard the notion of god and live according to the best of your abilities. But in so doing, you have to have one firm resolution in your mind: you may fail ultimately, if something can go wrong it is likely to go wrong and things will not turn out in your life as per your plan. This, according to me, is not because of god or karma but this world is the sum total of the efforts of all the people and all other entities which have some freedom of action. (example, the common cold virus may afflict you from the sneeze of the person sitting beside you in the bus; a mad dog may aim at you and bite you, and so on.) If we are prepared to accept that we are at the mercy of such phenomena and only our intelligence can help us tide over such obstacles, we will have no difficulty in living without a belief in god. PS. I see that already the discussions have veered off into different directions. So, I may not be giving further comments.

dear sangom sir !
you have reflected the voice many persons(it is my view ) and it really en lighted me.
guruvayurappan

 

[KRS]

Dear Shri ShivKC Ji,

Please refer above a post of mine to Sri Yamaka about the consideration of probability in his proposal to his wife. Please also don't fail to read his response.

I agree this is a very deep subject. But in the context of this thread, it is off the mark.

Regards,
KRS

sh.krs, thanks for taking effort to address this simple issue. while agree in major with you, the only point which was worrying me, is the one below.

this is not a simple topic to be accepted with a wink of an eye (or) to expect some one to acknowledge, just by presenting one or two eg.

a discussion about 'luck in atheism', would run to few thousand posts, like this same god thread.

 

[Yamaka]

These all seem reasonable. I don't see why theists would mind following Yamaka's dharma. As long as you don't demand exclusivity of course. Surely there is a lot in common among the great religions (including Yamaka's dharma).

Hello Biswa:

Here is the distinction.

Believers (Theists) believe everything is done by the Super Natural Entity. That's why they say "it's all because of God's Grace". They also believe more and more you do PPB (prayers, pooja and bhajans) more and more "things" you get from that SNE.

Recall the OP, if you go and pay the Barber (here the God), he will cut your hair!

But for Athiests like Yamaka this is NOT the case... that's why I wrote of Yamaka's Dharma because some people here complained that I love some sort of Dharma in this world! Lol.

I like the Yamaka's Dharma, not the Sanathana Dharma that the Hindus follow so very dearly.

Take care.

 

[Yamaka]

What's called Bad or Good Luck?: My Personal View

1. Several years ago I was playing tennis with my daughter one evening in the neighborhood park. Suddenly, there were large jack fruits (about 10 or so) falling on the court from somewhere. We were frightened. This never happened before.

We both could have been hit with this large fruits and could have been killed or seriously injured. Even today we could not get any answer as to from where those jack fruits came and how did all this happen.

Someone said that probably the cargo door of a plane going overhead broke open and delivered the fruits out, which came crashing down towards the earth, hitting our tennis court!

If those fruits killed us, I would say it's all a very Bad Luck...

2. Some time ago, when I was travelling to NY, I met a person who sat next to me in the plane. We had a nice conversation. Later, I came to know he was a very influential person in the US Govt, and he was offering to get me a huge research grant from DARPA! But, due to some technical problems, the things did not pan out.

Had I gotten a huge Grant thru this contact, I would have said "How Lucky I am!"

Now how often such Good Luck or Bad Luck happen to any one of us?

Very very rarely, very randomly.

I conclude nothing of the sort of "good luck" happened to me in the past 30 years. For everything, I have to work my tail off, believe me.

That's why I refuse to acknowledge any LUCK playing any part in my life, for which our dear KRS called me "impudent"!

What an abuse of English word!!

Cheers.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear yamaka !
ref #1882. you are introducing one more dharma -yamaka dharma.already confused with many dharmas and you are adding to it . please simply tell it as your way of life which is followed successfully by you.You should not blame others for your failure is a nice point
cheers
guruvayurappan

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka,

Seems to me your stories are in reverse! #1 is actually good luck because you both escaped unhurt. #2 is bad luck because even though you met such a person, you could not capitalize on it!

By the way I was applying the 'impudent' remark on my comment rather than to you. Please go back and read my post carefully, please.

Regards,
KRS

What's called Bad or Good Luck?: My Personal View

1. Several years ago I was playing tennis with my daughter one evening in the neighborhood park. Suddenly, there were large jack fruits (about 10 or so) falling on the court from somewhere. We were frightened. This never happened before.

We both could have been hit with this large fruits and could have been killed or seriously injured. Even today we could not get any answer as to from where those jack fruits came and how did all this happen.

Someone said that probably the cargo door of a plane going overhead broke open and delivered the fruits out, which came crashing down towards the earth, hitting our tennis court!

If those fruits killed us, I would say it's all a very Bad Luck...

2. Some time ago, when I was travelling to NY, I met a person who sat next to me in the plane. We had a nice conversation. Later, I came to know he was a very influential person in the US Govt, and he was offering to get me a huge research grant from DARPA! But, due to some technical problems, the things did not pan out.

Had I gotten a huge Grant thru this contact, I would have said "How Lucky I am!"

Now how often such Good Luck or Bad Luck happen to any one of us?

Very very rarely, very randomly.

I conclude nothing of the sort of "good luck" happened to me in the past 30 years. For everything, I have to work my tail off, believe me.

That's why I refuse to acknowledge any LUCK playing any part in my life, for which our dear KRS called me "impudent"!

What an abuse of English word!!

Cheers.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear yamaka !
#1883
that is why our elders used say the lady luck will knock your door once only and you have to utilize it properly . you are lucky that you got a very good graha lakshmi &children
guruvayurappan

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,

Am not sure what "Subsequent comments" of mine suggests there are cliques in this Forum. Kindly clarify.

On the contrary, i thot those who posted from post # 1828 to post # 1833 formed cliques. These posts are in tandem encouraging / hitting below the belt. So i cud not help comparing "class" and "urine" as it appeared in these posts.

Am surprised to see responses to Y's post by various posters. I thot Renu's post # 1829 was crass -- she need not have brought the urine comparison in the first place. Y protested. But instead what have you - he is being moderated and called names indirectly -- like risque, mean, nasty, uncultured, vulgar, hitting below belt, etc.

Btw, all of this wud not have started if yourself had not made an unnecessary comment in post # 1828. If a moderator himself makes a personally insulting comment in a subtle (or indirect way) as "lacks class", does not delete the subsequent urine comparison made by Renu, and even thanks Renu in post # 1831, what else to expect...ofcourse that invariably allows all and sundry to invite themselves, to come along, and make personally insulting remarks like vulgar, risque, etc...

Sir, i hope you realise the conversation between Renu and Yamaka was perfectly fine until you made post # 1828. Therefore i agee with Y's post # 1832 . I do not blame renu fully in this. Sir, am yet to see you commenting on posts by prasad1, suraju, ashwin, etc - surprisingly, you do not call their comments cliques to yours or renu's.

You are free to label this post also a clique. It is rather obvious to readers there are cliques everywhere....so am not sure if cliques (and that too "clique warfare" is an issue).

Okay, tell me what in Srimathi Renuka's analogy is a personal attack on Sri Yamaka? You said and I am paraphrasing, 'Hope you give it to others as much as you receive'. If this is not exhorting, what else? It is a Moderator's job to moderate. It is not your job.

I have explained to Sri Yamaka about my comment about class and it is between him and me as posters.

What gives you the right to insert yourself in the middle?

Regards,
KRS

I agree you clarified, but your clarification came after my post. If you had clarified earlier itself, i wud not have made the comparison between 'class' and 'urine'.

In post 1828 you spoke of lack of class. You may say lack of class is a mere comment and you did not mean it to be personally insulting. Am not sure if everyone wud agree with you. The veiled personal attack is rather obvious (to some folks atleast - which is why i beleive Y also reacted in post 1832).

In post 1829 Renu compared the act of urinating to Y's comment on beleivers waiting for "things happen by the "Grace of God" or "Providence" or Luck or Whatever". You may say there is nothing personally directed to Y in this as well.

When Y protested against such talk in post 1832, Renu again brings back the piss point in post 1833.

Ofcourse all of this is not a direct personal attack, although the sarcasm is obvious.

I stand by my post # 1839. I cud not help compare the irony in 'class' and 'urine' talk. I see nothing wrong in hoping Y grows up and starts learning to give back as good as he gets.

Learning to show scorn the indirect or veiled way is not easy...although i suggested that to Y i do not think i can do so myself. I remain direct and prefer being that way.

Posters make all sorts of comments all the time. When i make a post to Balaji Srinivasan, i get Suraju/Raghy posting in between. In this very thread you have posts by prasad1, ashwin, etc posting in between. So, please ask other members also what gives them the right to insert themselves in the middle.

If you claim my comments show 'Cliques', i have every right to defend myself. As a forum member, i beleive, i have every right to clarify things to readers.

Firstly, again, I made my comment about 'cliques', not only about you but for all others. I cited you because it was obvious.

If you have any beef with other peoples' postings, report them. Don't take it on yourself to egg on other folks.

My comment about 'class' is toward Sri Yamaka's post, not him. Did you find him saying anything about it? So why are you the arbiter of deciding whether or not it is a personal attack on him?

I do not see all others' postings you cite as attacks. Because they took Srimathi Renuka Ji's comment for what it was, an analogy and not a personal attack. Which part of whose posting, you object to, in this context?

My advice to you as a Moderator is, please do not in the future get involved in anything connected with moderation. Please stay away.

Regards,
KRS

Thanks.

 

[Yamaka]

On Spirituality and Religiosity:

My dictionary says both are the same. Both believe in the Super Natural Agent or Entity - the God which could very well be the same Gods of Abraham or Puranas.

Some people think Spirituality does not require PPB (prayers, poojas and bhajans); they say it requires only Meditation.

I am at a loss if people say "One should get spiritually matured".

Doesn't it mean to be Very Religious?

Oh Believers, please enlighten me!

Cheers.

 

[happyhindu]

On Spirituality and Religiosity:

My dictionary says both are the same. Both believe in the Super Natural Agent or Entity - the God which could very well be the same Gods of Abraham or Puranas.

Some people think Spirituality does not require PPB (prayers, poojas and bhajans); they say it requires only Meditation.

I am at a loss if people say "One should get spiritually matured".

Doesn't it mean to be Very Religious?

Oh Believers, please enlighten me!

Cheers.

Y,

The rise of Buddhism and Jainism was competition for the brahmanical religion (of those who followed the brahmanas ritual texts).

All this talk of getting spiritually matured may not make sense to those immersed in SET.

Sometimes i also wonder....who knows maybe all this spirituality talk may not really be about spirituality at all...

 

[happyhindu]

I agree you clarified, but your clarification came after my post. If you had clarified earlier itself, i wud not have made the comparison between 'class' and 'urine'.

In post 1828 you spoke of lack of class. You may say lack of class is a mere comment and you did not mean it to be personally insulting. Am not sure if everyone wud agree with you. The veiled personal attack is rather obvious (to some folks atleast - which is why i beleive Y also reacted in post 1832).

In post 1829 Renu compared the act of urinating to Y's comment on beleivers waiting for "things happen by the "Grace of God" or "Providence" or Luck or Whatever". You may say there is nothing personally directed to Y in this as well.

When Y protested against such talk in post 1832, Renu again brings back the piss point in post 1833.

Ofcourse all of this is not a direct personal attack, although the sarcasm is obvious.

I stand by my post # 1839. I cud not help compare the irony in 'class' and 'urine' talk. I see nothing wrong in hoping Y grows up and starts learning to give back as good as he gets.

Learning to show scorn the indirect or veiled way is not easy...although i suggested that to Y i do not think i can do so myself. I remain direct and prefer being that way.

Posters make all sorts of comments all the time. When i make a post to Balaji Srinivasan, i get Suraju/Raghy posting in between. In this very thread you have posts by prasad1, ashwin, etc posting in between. So, please ask other members also what gives them the right to insert themselves in the middle.

If you claim my comments show 'Cliques', i have every right to defend myself. As a forum member, i beleive, i have every right to clarify things to readers.

Firstly, again, I made my comment about 'cliques', not only about you but for all others. I cited you because it was obvious.

If you have any beef with other peoples' postings, report them. Don't take it on yourself to egg on other folks.

My comment about 'class' is toward Sri Yamaka's post, not him. Did you find him saying anything about it? So why are you the arbiter of deciding whether or not it is a personal attack on him?

I do not see all others' postings you cite as attacks. Because they took Srimathi Renuka Ji's comment for what it was, an analogy and not a personal attack. Which part of whose posting, you object to, in this context?

My advice to you as a Moderator is, please do not in the future get involved in anything connected with moderation. Please stay away.

Regards,
KRS

Thanks.

I shall stay away. I beleive i have clarified my position to readers in both my posts and that is sufficient.

One last point i want to clarify regarding this particualr post is - i did NOT get involved in anything that pertains to moderation. Nor did i egg on others. You as a poster involved me in claiming 'cliques' and i defended my position. That's all. You too could have clarified issues as a poster but chose to do so as a moderator. That's fine. But i shall NOT accept your allegations that i egged on others and got involved with things that pertain to moderation - although it comes in red letters. Thanks.

I do not like to moderate with red letters either. But you are forcing me to. You thought my comment about 'class' and Srimathi Renuka Ji's analogy are direct attacks on Sri Yamaka Ji. Fair enough.

But instead of addressing myself or Srimathi Renuka Ji to clarify our comments, you egged on Sri Yamaka. THAT IS INTERFERING WITH MODERATION.

You are a guest in this Forum. Please always remember that. It is not a right but a privilege to belong here.

Regards,
KRS

 

[ashwin_ash]

What's called Bad or Good Luck?: My Personal View

1. Several years ago I was playing tennis with my daughter one evening in the neighborhood park. Suddenly, there were large jack fruits (about 10 or so) falling on the court from somewhere. We were frightened. This never happened before.

We both could have been hit with this large fruits and could have been killed or seriously injured. Even today we could not get any answer as to from where those jack fruits came and how did all this happen.

Someone said that probably the cargo door of a plane going overhead broke open and delivered the fruits out, which came crashing down towards the earth, hitting our tennis court!

If those fruits killed us, I would say it's all a very Bad Luck...

2. Some time ago, when I was travelling to NY, I met a person who sat next to me in the plane. We had a nice conversation. Later, I came to know he was a very influential person in the US Govt, and he was offering to get me a huge research grant from DARPA! But, due to some technical problems, the things did not pan out.

Had I gotten a huge Grant thru this contact, I would have said "How Lucky I am!"

Now how often such Good Luck or Bad Luck happen to any one of us?

Very very rarely, very randomly.

I conclude nothing of the sort of "good luck" happened to me in the past 30 years. For everything, I have to work my tail off, believe me.

That's why I refuse to acknowledge any LUCK playing any part in my life, for which our dear KRS called me "impudent"!

What an abuse of English word!!

Cheers.

While I concur with most of Yamaraj's views, I find an inherent contradiction here. There are no jackfruits in the United States, where Yamaraj lives. Even if those jackfruits fell out of a plane from an altitude of 40,000 ft, they would have obliterated into tiny bits by the time they fell down (any of you ever wondered how human excreta is handled after a plane reaches cruising altitude on trans-continental flights? They simply dump it into the atmosphere, and it vaporizes).

And a combination of hard work and luck brings success. Perhaps, devotion to God gives some people the impetus to work hard. But to all those sitting in pooja rooms hoping for miracles, boo and bah!! For some, success comes via sheer luck. For some, via hard work. Some are unsuccessful all their lives. Where does god figure in this equation?

Btw, I'm yet to come across a person who's "really" seen god, whether formless, or in any form. I am also curious about the myth of Ramalinga Swami. He entered a room without windows or exits, locked himself. After some days, he was not to be found, and there were no secret tunnels or suchlike. Where did he go, how could he have gone? There were people, and british guards surrounding his room all day and night. Adi Sankara also similarly 'disappeared', according to the myths.

 

[Yamaka]

dear yamaka !
ref #1882. you are introducing one more dharma -yamaka dharma.already confused with many dharmas and you are adding to it . please simply tell it as your way of life which is followed successfully by you.You should not blame others for your failure is a nice point
cheers
guruvayurappan

Dear Guru:

I did it in response to someone who speculated that I like Sanathana Dharma very much!!

Instead of SD, I said truly I am interested in my own Yamaka Dharma! What else would you expect from an Atheist! LOL

It's meant to be a joke!

 

[Yamaka]

Hi Ashwin: My response given in bold letters.

While I concur with most of Yamaraj's views, I find an inherent contradiction here. There are no jackfruits in the United States, where Yamaraj lives. Even if those jackfruits fell out of a plane from an altitude of 40,000 ft, they would have obliterated into tiny bits by the time they fell down (any of you ever wondered how human excreta is handled after a plane reaches cruising altitude on trans-continental flights? They simply dump it into the atmosphere, and it vaporizes).

I told you that it was someone else' guess work... still I don't know how those jack fruits landed on the tennis ground... and in the park there were a few people farther away doing their workout! One thing is 100% true that jack fruits landed on the court very close to us... how did this happen? Your guess is as good as mine!

Where's the inherent contradiction here? Only a convincing explanation is missing! There is a world of difference!

And a combination of hard work and luck brings success. Perhaps, devotion to God gives some people the impetus to work hard.
Not necessarily... or say maybe, or may not be!

But to all those sitting in pooja rooms hoping for miracles, boo and bah!! For some, success comes via sheer luck. For some, via hard work. Some are unsuccessful all their lives. Where does god figure in this equation?

Good question. Let our Theists answer this!

Btw, I'm yet to come across a person who's "really" seen god, whether formless, or in any form. I am also curious about the myth of Ramalinga Swami. He entered a room without windows or exits, locked himself. After some days, he was not to be found, and there were no secret tunnels or suchlike. Where did he go, how could he have gone? There were people, and british guards surrounding his room all day and night. Adi Sankara also similarly 'disappeared', according to the myths.

Take care.

 

[happyhindu]

I shall stay away. I beleive i have clarified my position to readers in both my posts and that is sufficient.

One last point i want to clarify regarding this particualr post is - i did NOT get involved in anything that pertains to moderation. Nor did i egg on others. You as a poster involved me in claiming 'cliques' and i defended my position. That's all. You too could have clarified issues as a poster but chose to do so as a moderator. That's fine. But i shall NOT accept your allegations that i egged on others and got involved with things that pertain to moderation - although it comes in red letters. Thanks.

I do not like to moderate with red letters either. But you are forcing me to. You thought my comment about 'class' and Srimathi Renuka Ji's analogy are direct attacks on Sri Yamaka Ji. Fair enough.

But instead of addressing myself or Srimathi Renuka Ji to clarify our comments, you egged on Sri Yamaka. THAT IS INTERFERING WITH MODERATION.

You are a guest in this Forum. Please always remember that. It is not a right but a privilege to belong here.

Regards,
KRS

Sir, in this post i sought clarification why you as a poster mentioned me as 'cliques' - but you responded in red to that post as a moderator. Even now you are writing in red, as a moderator, and claiming i egged on Yamaka. I refuse to accept this allegation.

I hope the person himself will reply. Yamaka, please let me know if you found my post as something egging you?

Since you continue to allege in red, i have no other choice but to kindly request Praveen to intervene and let Praveen decide if i egged on Yamaka.

Also, KRS Sir, please do not try to cow me down simply by writing it is a "privilege" to be here. This point you need not say as a moderator writing in red, as it appears to be a unnecessary display of authority. Am well aware all of us are guests here. Thanks

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

Sorry. I am not cowing you down as being a guest. It applies to all, including me.

I have already explained about the 'clique' part. What in that you do not understand?

If you again challenge me as a moderator, there will be consequences.

Sri Yamaka, if you answer Srimathi HH Ji's question, I will consider that as a violation of the Forum rules, because a Moderator's rule is final.

Regards,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Folks,

This is a warning. If any further attempt is made to question the moderator on this thread, you will be expelled from this Forum.

Regards,
KRS

 

[ShivKC]

lets move on to the topic.

sh.krs,

except hinduism & atheism, all other religions (including buddhism) do not believe in luck.


i think, yamaka's atheist view on 'luck' is very much closer to having a great hand shake with your views too.

give it a serious insight in to his points, he may take a nose dive !

 

[ShivKC]

Uncle Yams, just curious. do you believe in Jinx ?

 

[happyhindu]

Happy,

Is there an implication that I or nara come out as self-aggrandizing? If so I request you to point out whenever our posts do reveal such a tendency.

Thank you,

Oops no no not at all sir. Please have no doubts as this. Sorry i should have clarified earlier. Was going thru old posts and came across this just now. Am sorry did not read earlier posts on this thread before.

 

[sarang]

yamaka's dharma is a subset of sanatana dharma. If he is happy with a micro toffee, that is fine. He may miss the woods as he is locked on to a tiny bush.

These all seem reasonable. I don't see why theists would mind following Yamaka's dharma. As long as you don't demand exclusivity of course. Surely there is a lot in common among the great religions (including Yamaka's dharma).

 

[happyhindu]

yamaka's dharma is a subset of sanatana dharma. If he is happy with a micro toffee, that is fine. He may miss the woods as he is locked on to a tiny bush.

Am wondering if Yamaka's dharma is Jaina-Buddhist?? His approach is like that of an ancient Jain, i feel.