God Exists

[Yamaka]

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Point to ponder..I entered the workforce at the age of 20. My work's taken me all around the world, but I didn't save any. Lived in the States for like 4 years, and had to return to India due to unavoidable circumstances. In spite of my efforts (won't quantify efforts as best or worst), life's only dealt me one bum rap after the the other. The learned ones say "mesha rasi" "vasthu" this and that.

I've been without a job for 7 months now, and I don't want to really share my miseries. Some say I'm "overqualified" for a job, some say they can't "afford" my salary. Whatever, my life's not really panned out the way I envisaged. So much so, I've simply stopped applying for jobs since the past month or so, much to the chagrin of everyone. Can Yams say I'm the quintessential "LOSER" as opposed to winner?

Or am I caught in a vortex of unfortunate circumstances? Introspection also leads nowhere, I'm still where I am.

Dear Ashwin:

As I wrote to dear Biswa, "Winner or Loser" is up to the individual to analyze and feel about.

Coming to your present situation,

Please keep applying to all sorts of jobs even that pays you less than that you were once making.
Being jobless will be very demoralizing. You must take up any job that comes along for now; once in a job, you may move up and move around.

Be optimistic all the time.. Don't lose hope at all.. Is there a way you can improve your skills and qualifications (I just don't know much about you)?

My only suggestion is thinking of God & Religion WILL not solve your problems... only YOU CAN solve the problems yourself, some how.

Wish you all the best in your endeavor.

Cheers.

Y

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri ashwin_ash Ji,

First, understand who you are. Meaning what you want to do in this life. That will lead to what your talents are. This may be very different from what you think who you should be, based on others in your life's notions. Please break out of it.

Follow your heart. Start a business if you are an entrepreneur. Be willing to restart at a lower level if you want to work for someone else, if you do not like the risk of being an entrepreneur. You can make up the salary gap very easily if you are determined.

Often times we put fences around ourselves. Please think through and break through.

More importantly, please do not feel that the world owes you something, because of your bad luck. If you do, self pity will set in and you DO NOT WANT THAT.

Good luck. You can do it.

Regards,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka,

You have said:

I feel I can make things happen, whereas Believers WAIT for things happen by the "Grace of God" or "[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Providence[/FONT][/FONT]" or Luck or Whatever.

Yes, Luck matters... and that Luck comes to people who are fully prepared, I think.

Of course. I or Srimathi Renuka Ji (If I may speak for her), have never implied that you needed to believe in what each of us believes in. It is always an interest to me that while the so called 'believers' are gracious and generous to your atheistic beliefs, the reverse does not seem to be true. This is a typical minority behavior, not intellectually supported, based on the feeling that one's minority view may actually be not valid. I know your wife is not an atheist. How do you reconcile that fact?

Irrespective, I think your response to me and if Srimathi Renuka Ji allows me to say so, to her as well lacks class. Empathy should be a two way street.

Regards,
KRS

 

[renuka]

Dear Sri Yamaka,

You have said:


Of course. I or Srimathi Renuka Ji (If I may speak for her), have never implied that you needed to believe in what each of us believe in. It is always an interest to me that while the so called 'believers' are gracious and generous to your atheistic beliefs, the reverse does not seem to be true. This is a typical minority behavior, not intellectually supported, based on the feeling that one's minority view may actually be not valid. I know your wife is not an atheist. How do you reconcile that fact?

Irrespective, I think your response to me and if Srimathi Renuka Ji allows me to say so, to her as well lacks class. Empathy should be a two way street.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS Ji,

You read my mind. I was thinking that we three you,yams and myself were having a nice exchange of thoughts and ideas and I finally had to read stuff like

I feel I can make things happen, whereas Believers WAIT for things happen by the "Grace of God" or "Providence" or Luck or Whatever.

Ok I am going to sound a bit harsh now but I was laughing when I was reading what Yams wrote above cos even the act of urinating needs one to have a minimum amount of urine.
So whether we are believers or not we need to WAIT for the bladder to fill up!!!

 

[suraju06]

Renuka your post #1829 was a bouncer which you bowl once in a while. I like the controlled 'ferocity' there in it.

Cheers.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi Renuka Ji,

Thank you for affirming my impudent remarks to Sri Yamaka, that included you.

As an atheist, he does not even want to acknowledge the role of 'luck' in his life!

So be it. I sincerely hope that his luck generated by his circumstances continue.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri Yamaka,

You have said:


Of course. I or Srimathi Renuka Ji (If I may speak for her), have never implied that you needed to believe in what each of us believes in. It is always an interest to me that while the so called 'believers' are gracious and generous to your atheistic beliefs, the reverse does not seem to be true. This is a typical minority behavior, not intellectually supported, based on the feeling that one's minority view may actually be not valid. I know your wife is not an atheist. How do you reconcile that fact?

Irrespective, I think your response to me and if Srimathi Renuka Ji allows me to say so, to her as well lacks class. Empathy should be a two way street.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS:

Dear Renuka said in the preamble in the post above, "we had a nice conversation between three of us".

Suddenly, you brought her in with your "impudent" post... then she started pouring "her urine all over her" with some one else clapping and congratulating her! LOL.

I was wondering "Is this the Sanathana Dharma in ACTION?" All the Three Believers in a Carnival?

Please enjoy your "impudence" and "urine talk"!

It smells bad..here!

 

[renuka]

Dear KRS:

Dear Renuka said in the preamble in the post above, "we had a nice conversation between three of us".

Suddenly, you brought her in with your "impudent" post... then she started pouring "her urine all over her" with some one else clapping and congratulating her! LOL.

I was wondering "Is this the Sanathana Dharma in ACTION?" All the Three Believers in a Carnival?

Please enjoy your "impudence" and "urine talk"!

It smells bad.....here!

See Yams..you just cant hold a conversation without dragging in Sanathana Dharma.You are in love with Sanathana Dharma LOL!!

Dont get "pissed" dear.

Shanti Shanti Shanti

 

[sangom]

Sangom's post #1798:



Is there not a presumption that the God inputs and honest work culture/sensitivity to civic responsibilities can not coexist in one place. On what basis is this assumption made? People when they get more and more engrossed with God, bhakthi and temples can also have a honest work culture and be sensitive to their civic responsibilities. Many of them are also good law abiding citizens. For some of us God may be just a figment of imagination and for others He may be the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent creator. But to say that the believers are lacking a sense of civic responsibility or honest work culture is a hyperbole.

It is not a presumption that belief in god and honest work culture do not coexist; but if we honestly observe all around us and compare the general average behaviour of the average person here, with that of their counterparts in the developed countries, it is seen that our people tend to be more corrupt, shirk work and responsibility and do not generally feel any pangs of conscience because they put on an air of a very devout person and wash away all guilt easily. This is not to say that exceptions do not exist but those are exceptions.

If religiosity is not the cause then there must be some special gene which causes a whole population of 120+ billions develop a tendency which stunts their economic prosperity in contemporary world.

 

[suraju06]

REnuka,

your post # 1833:

See Yams..you just cant hold a conversation without dragging in Sanathana Dharma.You are in love with Sanathana Dharma LOL!!
Dont get "pissed" dear.
Shanti Shanti Shanti

Your earlier diagnosis that it is the Sisupal Syndrome gets one more symptomatic confirmation. I am watching with interest the prognosis.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear KRS !
your post #1823 is true to many middle class families like me . each and every word look like as if uttered by me .it is GOD's grace for many believers and lucky/outcome of their effort for non-belivers.

 

[suraju06]

Sangom's post #1834 for reference:

..... if we honestly observe all around us and compare the general average behaviour of the average person here, with that of their counterparts in the developed countries, it is seen that our people tend to be more corrupt, shirk work and responsibility and do not generally feel any pangs of conscience because they put on an air of a very devout person and wash away all guilt easily. This is not to say that exceptions do not exist but those are exceptions.

May be we all form impressions on the basis of personal experiences with individuals and try to generalise or extend it to a group. My experience is quite different. I had the opportunity to work with groups of people in places like Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Trivandrum and other few places in India. I found people to be very honest, upright and sincere to the core never shirking a responsibility. They were all believers too. I had the opportunity also to work in foreign countries where I found the people to be clock watchers. I got an impression that their pleasure somehow did not lie in executing a task perfectly and within time but it lied elsewhere in time spent with a girl friend and in nursing a drink. They too were believers but not so intense as my colleagues in India. My understanding of the reasons for the prosperity of some of these countries is that (1) they had the opportunity to plunder other countries for long (2)they have better organising skills which we lack.

If religiosity is not the cause then there must be some special gene which causes a whole population of 120+ billions develop a tendency which stunts their economic prosperity in contemporary world.

I think it is too pessimistic to condemn a society as whole and put the blame on their religiosity. If we think about it more we may get other reasons to blame.

Cheers.

 

[Brahin]

Got this by e mail:


[h=2]I am amazed at a person who feels proud of himself... who, by yesterday, was just a clot of blood & will tomorrow be a Particle of dust ![/h]

 

[happyhindu]

Dear KRS:

Dear Renuka said in the preamble in the post above, "we had a nice conversation between three of us".

Suddenly, you brought her in with your "impudent" post... then she started pouring "her urine all over her" with some one else clapping and congratulating her! LOL.

I was wondering "Is this the Sanathana Dharma in ACTION?" All the Three Believers in a Carnival?

Please enjoy your "impudence" and "urine talk"!

It smells bad..here!

Dear Y,

Isn't it kinda funny that some ppl get to choose what is classy and yet associate with what to piss urine over ?? Maybe there is a kind soul in you that sees it as mere impudence. Hope you realise someday that sarcasm is not a one-way street. Methinks the more you hang out on this forum the more it helps you grow up...so am hoping someday you will start learning to give back as good as you get.

Regards.

 

[C RAVI]

Though one is highly prudent, have tendencies to work hard, be honest and skill full in work; there are something called "Opportunities" and "Certainity/Stability". Other than these there is something called "Being alert and hitting the rod when it is hot".

Opportunities-Certainity/Stability in the process of progress-Alertness are the factors that revolves around Karma theory more severely than that of one's mental caliber. "GOOD LUCK" and "BAD LUCK" may come and go but the only thing that determines the net results in our life is purely based of our past and present karma.

What a soul has to learn? What a soul can/has to accomplish? What sort of survival a soul should undergo right from birth to death? When and how a soul can/has to get and lose? How and what sort of pains and pleasures a soul has to experience? etc.etc. are the factors that influences one's wholesome life, dosen't matter what sort of mental caliber/skills/knowledge a person has been offered with during his/her life time.

As such we can find dim and below average students who remained as such through out their learning stage; progressing well in some way, accomplishing as much as possible and leading a peaceful and happy life to their heart content without any constraints. Similarly we can find many highly qualified people who all are briliant, having right attitude and required skills; finding themselves between the jobs often, undergoing distress and frustruation, getting cought in issues/legal complications though being innocent etc. etc. And in some cases they find themselves leading a sorrowful and complicated life till their end.

A person can well say that he/she does not believe in the existence of God, can say that he/she can go through any harsh circumstances of life without resorting to prayers/bhajans with their strong mind and heart, can well consider random phenomena of good and bad in one's life as something that are illogical and unreasonable. Or a person can well believe in the existence of God, do prayers/bhajans and believe in Past and Present Karma. These all has nothing to do with what a person is destined to get and lose in his/her life.

Tactical/rational brain power and the thoughts and perceptions derived from it may synch. well or contradict with what the heart feels deep within, from time to time. That's how the decisions that we take in our life may differ from what our rational brain could sense to act and react.

God and spirituality is related to the purest transmitting impulses of the Heart that can work towards realization of God and stimulates the brain further for intense practices & realizations.

The need of God and spirituality would differ only with what and how much one want's to acheive with it? And what one understands about the purpose of God/Spirituality in human's life?

 

[Yamaka]

See Yams..you just cant hold a conversation without dragging in Sanathana Dharma.You are in love with Sanathana Dharma LOL!!

Dont get "pissed" dear.

Shanti Shanti Shanti

Hi Renuka:

I am very enthralled about your choice of words and the imagery.

I only wish I meet to congratulate your teenage son how proud he must be to have such a fantastic mother who can dish out "<edited and removed>" and Shanti with ease and smile!

Watch out, he may quickly become another Yamaka, all because of the Sanathana Dharma that you follow daily...

Way to go...

With admiration!

ROFL..

please be extra careful as this is a public forum.

 

[sangom]

And just recently, my grandmother's been diagnosed with terminal cancer. She, who came to Mumbai from down south with Rs 20, is now worth a lot in monetary terms owing to sheer dint of hard work. It is terrible to see her slipping away, I avoid her on most days. If God made her the chancellor of a university, why is the same god making her die cell by cell? I'm neither an atheist, nor an ardent believer. I believe in rational and balanced thought. If god exists, I want to meet atleast one person who's seen god..so far there are none.

Dear Ashwin, Yourself and Shri servall, both have some emotional outburst which makes you doubt the existence of god. When an unnatural death occurs, and by that I mean here the death of a younger person while elders are alive, it is normal for many to condole saying 'kaDavuLukku kaNNillai' or something to that effect. But that is not the truth. God cannot be omnipotent, omniscient and all compassionate, all at the same time, which is what the traditional beliefs tell everyone and then cleverly shift the blame on to "poorva janma karma" of the affected person, the moment there is an incident showing god's insufficiency in one or more of the three cardinal aspects referred to above. For example, lakhs of people including some very devout persons, perish in earthquakes, air accidents, 9/11, etc., but god does nothing to forewarn all those devout persons, nor does he bring about some circumstances in which the devout repair from the quake area/flight/accident site to safer places. If at all man with his seismograms is the one who does at least some forewarning, if possible. Then there is the usual question/perennial doubt of "why bad things happen to good people?". Here again hinduism will answer via poorva janma karma or some related thing. But whatever the explanations be, one thing that will stand out is that God is a very unreliable insurance company and when the insurance is most needed He will be absconding. The only other explanation may be that god is not at all influenced by all these shows of devotion, bhakti, religiosity, etc., and he follows some, as yet unknown, rule. Take whichever line you want, you will find ultimately that there cannot be a god who is omnipotent, omniscient and all compassionate, all at the same time. My loss of faith in the god concept did not come about in circumstances similar to yours or that of Shri servall. I have suffered a lot in my life and have been able to come upto a lower middle class life of a pensioner and all this while I had lukewarm religiosity. It is only after I started reading hindu scriptures and books on this subject, that I found it more and more rational to discard the notion of god and live according to the best of your abilities. But in so doing, you have to have one firm resolution in your mind: you may fail ultimately, if something can go wrong it is likely to go wrong and things will not turn out in your life as per your plan. This, according to me, is not because of god or karma but this world is the sum total of the efforts of all the people and all other entities which have some freedom of action. (example, the common cold virus may afflict you from the sneeze of the person sitting beside you in the bus; a mad dog may aim at you and bite you, and so on.) If we are prepared to accept that we are at the mercy of such phenomena and only our intelligence can help us tide over such obstacles, we will have no difficulty in living without a belief in god. PS. I see that already the discussions have veered off into different directions. So, I may not be giving further comments.

 

[Servall]

Dear Y:

Dear Servall: Ref post 1804

I am curious to know why you go after ONLY Mu Ka, why not J Jaya also?

Why not Arun Jaitley and Yedd'appa of Karnataka also?

On record, I admire Kalaigner Mu Ka for his enormous contribution to Tamilliterature and Tamil Cinema, but I hate him as a Politician for the nepotism inhis Party.

Is he MORE corrupt than J Jaya? Probably NOT...

I like A. Raja and Kani because they were incarcerated against the Constitutionfor whatever "Crime" allegedly they committed...

Regards.

Y

Hi Y: I guess it was lack of your sleep that made you skip some of my previous posts, where I hold MK, JJ and all other politicians in the same category. I speak of TN more as I am from there.

Cry theBeloved Country-3: Post # 3:
How can the morons like MK, chidambaram,Marans, MM and JJ can comfortably sleep when there is so much abject povertyaround?

And # 1804 of the same thread which you quoted!!

Dont we knowevery rupee of the ill-gotten moneyrepresents rivers of tears unwiped, that MKand other TN politicians,conveniently disown...

Dear Y: You may feel elated by all the accomplishments of your beloved leader MK; Or, cry tears of the plight of A. Raja and Kanimozhi. Guess what, with all that ill-gotten money and power, they may even come out of Tihar, unconvicted and unscathed..at which you may gloat more.

But your glee will need to answer those poor human beings whom you get to see on the platforms when you go to India next time. But I am sure, justice will prevail, their conscience will kill them and still there is hope for TN and other parts of India from these morons.

Until then, as in your own words, WAIT & SEE ........

Sorry Y: I am having issues using Reply with Quote:

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Sangom,

With all your contributions in this thread, it is clear that you have associated random phenomena with some random actions without any specific logic and reasoning. And that, their is nothing called poorva janma karma, influences of Super Natural powers on humans etc.

At the same time, in this forum, in other threads, you have given some astrology predictions to some people here. I remember, you predicted with your astro knowledge that, the specific boy would have his marriege delayed and would take place after 2 years, in a matrimoney thread, some time ago.

With this I could draw the conclusion that you believe in astrology, interprete the horoscope and can tell about event schedules, roughly. You have explained few other stuffs regarding astro points some time ago.

If you say there is nothing called super natural power that influences humans and their events, than my question to you is, how could you believe in astology and give your predictions? If you say that the boy would get married only after 2 years from now, isn't it clear that Navagrahas as super natural powers influences events on this Earth and on Humans life, surviving on this Earth? Does not your predictions reveals failure of human actions/efforts till a specific time period?

Are you distinguinshing Navagrahas and their influences from the supernatural powers and it's influence on humans.? Don't you believe in Adi Devatha and Prathyathi Devatha of each grahas as per Samhita (Astro-Philosophy) & Hora Shastra (Astrology)?

Hope you would not mind me shooting questions to you.

Considering your belief in astrology, I would like to know as how would you be associating the super natural powers and the devine science of Hora Shastra that influences the human life and guides/warns/informs/predicts the events of human life respectively?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Hi Renuka:

I am very enthralled about your choice of words and the imagery.

I only wish I meet to congratulate your teenage son how proud he must be to have such a fantastic mother who can dish out "her urine" and Shanti with ease and smile!

Watch out, he may quickly become another Yamaka, all because of the Sanathana Dharma that you follow daily...

Way to go...

With admiration!

ROFL..

Mister Yamaraj, there's a limit to risque talk. Risque is fine, what you said is downright indecent and worth condemnation ('who can dish out "her urine" and Shanti with ease and..').

 

[prasad1]

I know some of the people get mean and nasty when they have nothing to add. Particularly when they are always in the minority of opinions. They may have reasons to hate others and themselves, but that does not give licence to hit below belt, or chew others ears.
Saying, and posting vulgar words to a lady is uncultured (oh I forgot these individual hate culture). Saying bad things about family is considered uncultured even among the least cultured. Saying unkind words to minor child, and hope something happens to a child is lower than any animal would desire.

Renuka is strong and I am sure she can handle her adversaries in her own term. But I hope there are other chivalrous gentleman, and courageous ladies out there who will jump in to defend against such attack.

 

[Servall]

Y:

You said this to a fellow member of this forum:

I only wish I meet to congratulate your teenage son how proud he must be to have such a fantastic mother who can dish out "her urine" and Shanti with ease and smile!

In between all your glorious achievements, 'I' did this accalamations, and hard work depriving yourself of sleep, you may have attempted to learn some culture too!!

From day 1 I joined this forum, you have been saying only one thing, and you have been copying and pasting the same material to every thread. I hope for a change you will say something new and oh, by the way, thank you for showing us the other ugly side of yours!!

I thought you had some class....if you choose to give something back to me Y, bring it on dude, I can give as much as I can take....

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka Ji,

I do not believe in doing the Jalra. In fact, I suspect that Srimathi Renuka Ji and I practice different approaches to God. I acknowledged her life's accomplishments, while recounting mine to you when you wrote the 'I did it' post.

My response to you was not to question your belief in atheism. Yet, you grouped all of us as a group of believers and suggested that 'we' all wait for things to happen. My 'impudence' was to point this intellectually indefensible position on your part and suggest that it lacked class and graciousness.

Subsequent comments by Srimathi HH Ji tells me that there are cliques in this Forum. This is not helpful in conducting fair one on one discussions in the Forum. I see right after you have again posted to Srimathi Renuka Ji, probably because of the exhortation. I hope this kind of clique warfare does not continue.

I feel that what Srimathi Renuka Ji posted may be considered to be in the area of something I would not think of, her job as a physician perhaps accounts for bringing up that analogy. And the analogy was about the certainty in cause and effect. Nothing to do with you personally. Subsequently she said 'Shanti' with a clever remark. Yet, you continue with the attack as though her analogy was about you.

This type of endless responses and exhortations end up usually with myself moderating at the end.

I would ask you, Srimathi Renuka Ji and others to stop this line of responses right now. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS:

Dear Renuka said in the preamble in the post above, "we had a nice conversation between three of us".

Suddenly, you brought her in with your "impudent" post... then she started pouring "her urine all over her" with some one else clapping and congratulating her! LOL.

I was wondering "Is this the Sanathana Dharma in ACTION?" All the Three Believers in a Carnival?

Please enjoy your "impudence" and "urine talk"!

It smells bad..here!

 

[Nara]

Mister Yamaraj, there's a limit to risque talk. Risque is fine, what you said is downright indecent and worth condemnation ('who can dish out "her urine" and Shanti with ease and..').

ashwin_ash, may I remind you it was not Y who brought in this human waste fluid reference into the discussion. Agree or disagree, there is no call for such talk and to top it, expressing appreciation for it.

I am very uncomfortable moderation is selectively applied upon Y only, it would have been better to edit out all references starting from the first instance it was used and the warning to be extra careful was explicitly addressed to all, leaving it implicit gives the false impression it is intended only to Y.

Contrary to what Shri KRS says, I have not seen one instance when the non-believers starting an ad hominem attack. It is one thing to attack the idea or opinion, but personal attacks invariably come from the camp of believers.

Cheers!

 

[KRS]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I wish you do not add to the melee.

Please go back and read Srimathi Renuka's first words on this. Yes it deals with waste. But it was an analogy, not an attack.

Let us not talk about 'believers' and 'non believers'. Let us see members as individuals and not belonging to any clique. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS