Happy Thanksgiving

[jaisiyaraam]

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You are perfectly correct..The very de gradtion of our culture taking place because of the intrusion/invasion by the Western culture.. Hope you will understand the issue properly..

TVK

Namaste TVKji

1. Culture (Indian? South Indian? Non-Tamilian? Tamilian? Non-Brahmin? Brahmin?...) has got nothing to do with raising a healthy-sound family, please watch "March of the Penguins", its in the DNA.
3. What is standards-definition you are refering when you say Indian Culture ?
   1. Temporal ?
      1. Before IT? Cable TV? British Rule? Moghul Rule? Buddhism? Jainism? Kali Yuga? Dwapara Yuga? which Manvantara?
   2. Spatial ?
      1. Tamil Nadu? South India? North India? Bharatha khanda?
   3. Dharama Shastras ?
      1. Manu ? Pippala? Gautama? Shandilya?
   4. Please enlighten about standards-definition that you are refering for Indian Culture
5. I am commenting on your POV but not on your gender, caste, religion, culture.

Note: I am sorry, I am not good at text formatting ie indentation&numbering.

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

 

[kk4646]

Namaste TVKji

1. Culture (Indian? South Indian? Non-Tamilian? Tamilian? Non-Brahmin? Brahmin?...) has got nothing to do with raising a healthy-sound family, please watch "March of the Penguins", its in the DNA.
2. What is standards-definition you are refering when you say Indian Culture ?
   1. Temporal ?
      1. Before IT? Cable TV? British Rule? Moghul Rule? Buddhism? Jainism? Kali Yuga? Dwapara Yuga? which Manvantara?
   2. Spatial ?
      1. Tamil Nadu? South India? North India? Bharatha khanda?
   3. Dharama Shastras ?
      1. Manu ? Pippala? Gautama? Shandilya?
   4. Please enlighten about standards-definition that you are refering for Indian Culture
3. I am commenting on your POV but not on your gender, caste, religion, culture.

Note: I am sorry, I am not good at text formatting ie indentation&numbering.

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

Dear Sir,

Forget about your text formating..I am bit surprised over your doubt about our culture.. It appears you want raise questions for the sake of asking questions.. Our culture is nothing but what your parents have followed and taught you..as an INDIAN...

TVK

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

Forget about your text formating..I am bit surprised over your doubt about our culture.. It appears you want raise questions for the sake of asking questions.. Our culture is nothing but what your parents have followed and taught you..as an INDIAN...

TVK

 

[sravna]

It is the culture that asks us to see the unity

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear TVK et al.

I feel bad that you have come to an understanding of American culture such that you do not think that we respect your holidays. We have intense amounts of religious freedom here but freedom to practice in no way guarantees others will understand it. It does however protect its practice. Years ago I worked for the fourth largest financial institution in America. MANY Indians worked in our ranks of 80,000 employees worldwide (20,000 of which were in technology / IT, my own division). Of 80,000 employees I was THE ONLY one who received either a Monday or Thursday off NEARLY EVERY TWO WEEKS that I made up for by working on Saturday or Sunday. This time off was for PRADOSHAM. I received it because I made a case for it. Think about that. My boss at the time (last name of Vyasa, no less) laughed at me and declined my request ... until I had escalated it FAR above him. It was no laughing matter. So you see. You can't expect Americans (of Indian origin or otherwise) to behave how you would like them to in this country but what you can do is MAKE SURE that you can live the life YOU WISH.

Next time you want to blame the nation for lack of understanding blame your diaspora for lack of willingness to communicate their religious desires in such a way that they are guaranteed success. MANY MANY Indians could receive such benefits but they come with the sacrifice of things like *gasp* a weekend day. Who would give THAT up for a day at the temple?! Well, I would and did. They were not willing and did not. Do not blame America for "rubbing off on your people" blame their lack of integrity if they behave that way.

Oh and please wear veshti to the temple. Men look ridiculous otherwise. I would blame khaki pants for their undeniable Western appeal and comfort but we all know it's ego.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Culture cannot be defined to people who are confused. Forget about Indian culture, there is big cultural difference between the Americans and English, or Europeans or Chinese or what not. Culture is reflected in food habits - veg or non-veg, living style, maintenance of relationships, caring for the needy and not the greedy, articulation of expressions, religious tendencies and so on and so forth. Culture cannot be seen in people who are born to enjoy life to the hilt, boozing, partying, and flirting with and...... Even in sexual behaviours, people of nations differ. But one thing can be said that America is one and only place where money overrides all including at times God. Forget those who have gone and settled there for many reasons, there is a world of population which would not even attempt to think. There are many who just would want to go America as a tourist as they would go to Africa or East Asia. Whether the cultural affinity or tendency has any genetic origin, is not for me to think about.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri. Boston Sankara,

I personally have nothing against the American people. Actually I have made a career by coaching students for the American entrance exams. My concern is not on how American people behave but on our how own people do. The culture of a country is like how the inherent nature is for a person. Very little can be done about it. If it changes it takes a long time.

But the danger is when something is enticing or tempting such as the American systems. When we become intoxicated we stop using our head. See I am not saying whether American culture is good or bad. They are doing well with their own ethos and values. But what I am saying is that let us not blindly follow them in everything without thinking just because they are successful.

Our own culture has a solid basis and has proved its mettle. All we need to do is to fine tune it to the present times upholding its spirit. Yes it is very much in antagonism with the American culture and that may be the reason for frequent arguments about which is better. But I would say we need to be Indian in spirit though the surface needs to be tough like the Americans.

To sum up, I am only concerned that we are imperceptibly letting our precious value system slip away from our psyche. Our own success should be by not letting that happen.

 

[amala]

Dear TVK et al.

I feel bad that you have come to an understanding of American culture such that you do not think that we respect your holidays. We have intense amounts of religious freedom here but freedom to practice in no way guarantees others will understand it. It does however protect its practice. Years ago I worked for the fourth largest financial institution in America. MANY Indians worked in our ranks of 80,000 employees worldwide (20,000 of which were in technology / IT, my own division). Of 80,000 employees I was THE ONLY one who received either a Monday or Thursday off NEARLY EVERY TWO WEEKS that I made up for by working on Saturday or Sunday. This time off was for PRADOSHAM. I received it because I made a case for it. Think about that. My boss at the time (last name of Vyasa, no less) laughed at me and declined my request ... until I had escalated it FAR above him. It was no laughing matter. So you see. You can't expect Americans (of Indian origin or otherwise) to behave how you would like them to in this country but what you can do is MAKE SURE that you can live the life YOU WISH.

Next time you want to blame the nation for lack of understanding blame your diaspora for lack of willingness to communicate their religious desires in such a way that they are guaranteed success. MANY MANY Indians could receive such benefits but they come with the sacrifice of things like *gasp* a weekend day. Who would give THAT up for a day at the temple?! Well, I would and did. They were not willing and did not. Do not blame America for "rubbing off on your people" blame their lack of integrity if they behave that way.

Oh and please wear veshti to the temple. Men look ridiculous otherwise. I would blame khaki pants for their undeniable Western appeal and comfort but we all know it's ego.

This is is actually very poignant. I think Indians go to America to make money and come with a family and so they cannot imagine giving up weekends. Temples, religion et al is the last thing on their minds and even if they are inclined that way, its more, oh i dunno, "cool" perhaps to assimilate which is probably why Indian boss laughed at you. He probably found it hilarious to say the least that you are more into his religion than he.

 

[kk4646]

Dear TVK et al.

I feel bad that you have come to an understanding of American culture such that you do not think that we respect your holidays. We have intense amounts of religious freedom here but freedom to practice in no way guarantees others will understand it. It does however protect its practice. Years ago I worked for the fourth largest financial institution in America. MANY Indians worked in our ranks of 80,000 employees worldwide (20,000 of which were in technology / IT, my own division). Of 80,000 employees I was THE ONLY one who received either a Monday or Thursday off NEARLY EVERY TWO WEEKS that I made up for by working on Saturday or Sunday. This time off was for PRADOSHAM. I received it because I made a case for it. Think about that. My boss at the time (last name of Vyasa, no less) laughed at me and declined my request ... until I had escalated it FAR above him. It was no laughing matter. So you see. You can't expect Americans (of Indian origin or otherwise) to behave how you would like them to in this country but what you can do is MAKE SURE that you can live the life YOU WISH.

Next time you want to blame the nation for lack of understanding blame your diaspora for lack of willingness to communicate their religious desires in such a way that they are guaranteed success. MANY MANY Indians could receive such benefits but they come with the sacrifice of things like *gasp* a weekend day. Who would give THAT up for a day at the temple?! Well, I would and did. They were not willing and did not. Do not blame America for "rubbing off on your people" blame their lack of integrity if they behave that way.

Oh and please wear veshti to the temple. Men look ridiculous otherwise. I would blame khaki pants for their undeniable Western appeal and comfort but we all know it's ego.

Dear Sir,

Thanks for your detailed posting.. I have nothing against either with Americans or with their tradition/culture etc.. My objection is why we Indians have to 'glorify' their practice and wishing everyone as if it is the duty and responsibility to understand 'something' which is in no way connected with us..As I have repeatedly mentioned they don't have the reciprocating nature by wishing for our practices and in such cases why we have to go miles and miles to appease them..There is nothing wrong in extending our wishes to our known people in any country but posting a related msg in a public/open forum do get adverse reaction.. pl. see my posting #46...wherein I have posted the mails which I have received..Hope you will understand my objection..

with regards,

TVK

 

[amala]

Dear KK Sir,

I think the point was that they don't reciprocate because they are not aware again because we don't practise it ourselves or we don't demand, and dont celebrate openly and boldly. We keep it under wraps or downplay it to sho we've assimilated. If they know, I'm very sure they will reciprocate by wishing us.

 

[kk4646]

Dear KK Sir,

I think the point was that they don't reciprocate because they are not aware again because we don't practise it ourselves or we don't demand, and dont celebrate openly and boldly. We keep it under wraps or downplay it to sho we've assimilated. If they know, I'm very sure they will reciprocate by wishing us.

Sorry Madam...I differ with you.. pl. see my post #38..Even in India the Americans who lives in the places like Chennai never extended their wishes to Indains..This is known fact and I happened know from one of my consulate friend.. For them these things are irrelevent..

TVK

 

[BostonSankara]

Well the holiday aside I would like to thank everyone for their input and opinions. I believe it is clear that there is a greater issue of maintaining dharma, duty, heritage, and tradition in the face of increasing money, changing goals and values, increased proximity, and other issues that arise from growing and changing populations. Honestly, these things can only be addressed if we speak to them openly.

Thanks again.

 

[zebra16]

Dear TVK et al.


Next time you want to blame the nation for lack of understanding blame your diaspora for lack of willingness to communicate their religious desires in such a way that they are guaranteed success. MANY MANY Indians could receive such benefits but they come with the sacrifice of things like *gasp* a weekend day. Who would give THAT up for a day at the temple?! Well, I would and did. They were not willing and did not. Do not blame America for "rubbing off on your people" blame their lack of integrity if they behave that way.

Oh and please wear veshti to the temple. Men look ridiculous otherwise. I would blame khaki pants for their undeniable Western appeal and comfort but we all know it's ego.

Dear Boston Sankara,

Although the rest of the post made an excellent reading to me, I think the statement in bold is a sort of generalised statement.

I thought of responding to this in detail, but after knowing what "gasp" is.... but as I understand from your latest post, you have sort of concluded the discussion. Please clarify what "gasp" is. And whether you are interested in a detailed response. (obviously from my perspective).

My response has nothing to do with the main issue of "Thanks giving" or the reciprocity of greetings, but more about the "integrity" part.

Regards,

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear zebra16,

Of course I am interested in your response. To clarify "*gasp*" is used to convey sarcastic shock, the sarcasm involved relates to the fact that one might be forced to sacrifice something they have guaranteed for something unique that they want. I also wish you to understand what I mean by "lack of integrity" this does not mean a lack of integrity of their personal goals and desires to be here opportunity, money, jobs, land, etc but rather refers to the perception that many non resident Indians seem to hold that these people are UNABLE to or are unduly TEMPTED by this culture in such a way that they are unable to exist as they wish.

My viewpoint is one that comes from a person who has renounced many particular things that are "normal" in my own culture in order to adopt one more closely similar to your own. My wonderful Guru is also a champion of the Dharma here in the states. As a Sivacharya temple priest his daily routines consist of far more than sandhyavandanam and he has created a life that he may propagate that dharma in. For example his home / our current temple has it's own ventilated yagna sala and while there are no gurukulas here his public school educated children can read and write sankskrit and chant vedas as if they had attended one. The opportunities the nation provides are coupled with the fact that they must often be sacrificed for particular desires. The entire world operates that way though.

-
Roman

Dear Boston Sankara,

Although the rest of the post made an excellent reading to me, I think the statement in bold is a sort of generalised statement.

I thought of responding to this in detail, but after knowing what "gasp" is.... but as I understand from your latest post, you have sort of concluded the discussion. Please clarify what "gasp" is. And whether you are interested in a detailed response. (obviously from my perspective).

My response has nothing to do with the main issue of "Thanks giving" or the reciprocity of greetings, but more about the "integrity" part.

Regards,

 

[prasad1]

I know this is not addressed to me.

But the undertones are kind of harsh and I would say insulting.

I do not think we need to trade insults here as my culture..your culture syndrome.

Please don't forget "vasudhaiva kutumbakam"

Mr. TVK.
AS a persom of Indian origin I am deeply insulted by your tone.
Mr. Shankar my appologies. Indians are generally this insulting.
We generally traet a guest as Lord.

 

[prasad1]

It is the culture that asks us to see the unity

Mr. Sravna,
Somebody insults an invited guest and you applaud it, it pains me.
We as cultured people should encourahe cultured behaviour, and should abhore the uncultured comments.

 

[zebra16]

Mr. TVK.
AS a persom of Indian origin I am deeply insulted by your tone.
Mr. Shankar my appologies. Indians are generally this insulting.
We generally traet a guest as Lord.

???? Appears to be a typo and requires editing.

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear Sri Prasad,

There is no need for you to apologize. I know what you mean. I believe that TVK is a person who feels that he is a member of an endangered culture and is defensive of it. I feel that he (wrongly or not) identifies Western ideals and culture as some of the greatest threats to the society that he desires to protect and took my blanket greeting to everyone as an example of that culture encroaching upon his own territory. I neither judge him for his opinion nor do I take him to be an example of Indian culture or even Tamil Brahmins for that matter. My own experiences of TB and Indian culture in general are far too positive for that to be the case.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday and the 4 day weekend with friends and family.

Sincerely,
Roman

Mr. Shankar my appologies. Indians are generally this insulting.
We generally traet a guest as Lord.

 

[sravna]

Mr. Sravna,
Somebody insults an invited guest and you applaud it, it pains me.
We as cultured people should encourahe cultured behaviour, and should abhore the uncultured comments.

Dear Shri.Prasad,

One should not consider Shri. TVK's sentiments as insulting. An insult is something when disrespect is shown. I do not think that Shri. TVK has been disrespectful of anything. He was only showing his displeasure that we are giving something an undue importance. I totally agree with that. Anything wrong with that?

 

[kk4646]

Dear Sri Prasad,

There is no need for you to apologize. I know what you mean. I believe that TVK is a person who feels that he is a member of an endangered culture and is defensive of it. I feel that he (wrongly or not) identifies Western ideals and culture as some of the greatest threats to the society that he desires to protect and took my blanket greeting to everyone as an example of that culture encroaching upon his own territory. I neither judge him for his opinion nor do I take him to be an example of Indian culture or even Tamil Brahmins for that matter. My own experiences of TB and Indian culture in general are far too positive for that to be the case.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday and the 4 day weekend with friends and family.

Sincerely,
Roman

"even Tamil Brahmins for that matter"...


Yes Sir..Now I know a SELF-appointed judge to decide who is a Tamil Brahmin or even a Brahmin ...


TVK

 

[Subhalakshmi]

I am shocked and very upset after reading some members comments, I first started writing so much in anger, then I thought, what will a person who has never lived in US know about Indians and the Americans living here. I am saddened that you have trashed both in your messages..

If you disagree with something it is okay to express what you feel but not with such hatred, you have poured out such hatefulness...

I have lived in the US, more than I have lived in India.. We have adapted all the good things that this country has to offer and also not given up our own culture.. I don't take offense that someone does not greet me for my religious holiday, when we live in rome you have to be a roman, have you not heard of that expression.. but at the same time, we are happy celebrating it during the morning and later during the evening after work and get together during the weekend..

I think when you are in a public forum, you have to be careful in how you express your opinion, you have no right to insult other cultures like this.. Read more about the good aspects of other cultures, don't dwell on the negative.. I can state so many things that are negative in ours.. I respect and love who I am.. I am first a good human being more than anything.

Let us all be mature and not slander anymore..

 

[prasad1]

I am shocked and very upset after reading some members comments, I first started writing so much in anger, then I thought, what will a person who has never lived in US know about Indians and the Americans living here. I am saddened that you have trashed both in your messages..

If you disagree with something it is okay to express what you feel but not with such hatred, you have poured out such hatefulness...

I have lived in the US, more than I have lived in India.. We have adapted all the good things that this country has to offer and also not given up our own culture.. I don't take offense that someone does not greet me for my religious holiday, when we live in rome you have to be a roman, have you not heard of that expression.. but at the same time, we are happy celebrating it during the morning and later during the evening after work and get together during the weekend..

I think when you are in a public forum, you have to be careful in how you express your opinion, you have no right to insult other cultures like this.. Read more about the good aspects of other cultures, don't dwell on the negative.. I can state so many things that are negative in ours.. I respect and love who I am.. I am first a good human being more than anything.

Let us all be mature and not slander anymore..

I agree with you. My post was from my PDA, I was so disgusted with the sentiment expressed that i did not even wait for my computer.
But thanks to Mr. BostonShankar for being so understading, but other may not be so generous. I am positives that majority of TB are not this rude.
Thanks

 

[prasad1]

Sorry Madam...I differ with you.. pl. see my post #38..Even in India the Americans who lives in the places like Chennai never extended their wishes to Indains..This is known fact and I happened know from one of my consulate friend.. For them these things are irrelevent..

TVK

It is because you are person, who only attracts people of that kind. Have you ever thought that your company will attract behaviour like you.
Sangat ka phal.
I am deeply ashamed of people like you in the human race.

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Gentlemen, kindly tone down, please. There is no need to get upset. SRI. TVK has a right to voice his opinion too. Sometimes things could get carry away passionately. Kindly apply brakes now.

Cheers!

 

[BostonSankara]

We all sit as judges in the kangaroo courts of our own egos, TVK. Not only are you good at this but you seem to find ways to point out how I am as well no matter how hard I try to behave to the contrary! Certainly not a celestial aspect of our nature but part of our human nature nonetheless. My interpretation of what makes a Brahmin are completely different from your own. Of that there is no doubt! You see I use Brahmin as an honorary title for dedicated beings who channel god for the good of man, you seem to define it as a class and race of people. You view it as a culture while I view it as a culture AND a responsibility to the world. You believe no one can BECOME a Brahmin except through birth. I counter that it is a high goal of man to behave toward god and man with the traditional value set of the Brahmin who sacrifices most all in order to tend the yajna. You seem to consider it a priviledge, I consider it a height aspired to but never fully attained. I side with Tirumoolar on the fact that kudumi and a knotted cotton thread do not a Brahmin make. It is only through self-less sacrifice is the Brahmin dharmic nature realized and the exalted position attained. These are ALL issues we can happily debate. I welcome you to start a thread if you would like. I am opinionated and open minded. I am happy to engage.

With all that said, today is my birthday (a ripe old 34!!!!) so I ask that we conclude this discussion in some way that takes the venom from it. That's really all I can say. Love to you all. I seriously mean that. Also, sincerest thanks to all of you, those who have shown me support and those who do not support me or my views. The Internet is an International house and we must treat it as such.

-
Roman

"even Tamil Brahmins for that matter"...


Yes Sir..Now I know a SELF-appointed judge to decide who is a Tamil Brahmin or even a Brahmin ...


TVK