Hinduism Vs Rest

[hariharan1972]

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Fair point

SIR - Tamil chauvinists are emphasising on 'pure' tamil, just for the sake of publicity. whereas nobody has any objection to non technical words being translated into pure tamil, i don't think technical words can be translated into pure tamil. like for e.g. what is tamil equivalent for logarithm , alogarithm, sodium bi carbonate, ammonium chloride etc., it is better to retain these technical words as it is, instead of 'trying' to translate them into tamil, which i am sure will be a nightmare for tamils!!!!

Absolutely. The essence of these words cannot be satisfactorily be brought about in 'translation'. I would like to point out the standard of "English education" that is offered to the poor students.

Couple of weeks back was watching Sun Music TV. One of the callers was a young boy - 8th std or so. The compere was asking a question (It was sort of a phone a song program) which was Spell "Discipline". Believe me the boy just struggled, struggled & before giving up says - "sir, i am learning under tamil medium". I was apalled at the pathetic level of "english education" that is being imposed at the behest of the so called protectors of tamil. Tamil is our mother tongue, has a wealth of literature, fine. But how can anyone be denied knowledge of english which is the window to the world ?

Another instance i remember reading is the plight of the "tamil cricket commentators" in finding a tamil equivalent of "Fielding setup". (Even today fielding positions don't have tamil equivalents, thankfully). While many cricket commentators struggled to describe it in english, it was Mr Abdul Jabbar (or some such name, may not be very correct) who called it as "Vyugam". "Vyugam" in pure tamil would mean 'strategy' especially a 'strategy' to ensnare. Since the objective of fielding setup is to snare the batsman, it was an apt word to describe fielding setup in tamil. The late Ma.Po.Si, I believe was so thrilled with Mr Jabbar that he hugged him when he came to know about the usage of this word.

It only goes to show that “translation” isn’t a very easy thing to do in any subject & to bring out the essence of the original word.

Mercifully till now, there has been no attempt at “transliteration” which would possibly result in words like “sellaritha kattai” for “LOG”+”ARITHM”, “Amma nee medhuva oottu” for “AMMO” + “NIUM” + “CHLO” + “RIDE” !!!!

 

[hariharan1972]

Could be true

sir - dmk senior minister ramaiah anbazhagan says it was because of the periar that the thirukkural became famous. at this rate he will soon say that 'it was because of the periar that india got independence from british!!!'

I think this could be true. Given EVR's habit of taking a bath "regularly" once in 6 months, the british would hv decided to free India much sooner than later. How sad, Indian Viceroy was not based in Chennai.

 

[hariharan1972]

I don't agree with the earlier one too !!!!!

Dear Suresh:
I don't know much about Hindu religion but I can say this much: There never WAS such a thing called 'Brahmin religion'!! Please dont get carried away with these outlandish statements! It might land all of us in trouble!

Silver Fox,

There was an earlier post by Sri Suresh (I am careful ever since the "paavatma" tag i got !!!!!) :caked: in which he suggested that Brahmin Gods were for Brahmins & Non Brahmins had gods of their own. In my view, in Hinduism the form is only a manifestation, means to an end & not the end itself. Hence i had replied to his post that i didn't agree with this postulation.

 

[hariharan1972]

Get us complete details

Suresh sir - Read in TOI today that MK (or "Kalaignaa" as you prefer calling) had pulled up one of his ministers Ko.Si.Mani for attending some yaga done in Kanchi Mutt. KSM is a MLA from Kanchi it seems. This should be mouth-watering news i guess... Can you do an Everready (Give me more) for us on this.

 

[mrifan]

Here are some other English-> Tamil translations:

Fan association -> Visiri manram
U-tube -> Naamam Kuzha
LCD -> Diravam Palingu Kankatchi
Paleontology -> Settha Mirugam Aaraichi
Black hole physics -> Karuppu Otai paudikaviyal
Quantum Dot -> Pangu Pulli
Computer Program -> Kanakkidum Iyanthiram Velaithittam
My computer has a lot of memory -> Yennudaiya Kanakkidum Iyanthirathirukku niraiya ninaivu undu
Golf links -> Kuzhippandu Vilaiyaattu Sangiligal

And many many more!

I am of course Tamil, but I think instead of putting the best minds to work on creating science and technology and reforming Tamil, the current set of politicians have no vision. Ataturk reformed Turkish so that it used the Latin Script with modifications, and incorporated a lot of English words, and thoroughly modernized it. That is what is needed today before our language becomes even more hopelessly out of date.

 

[kaivalyam]

I joined this forum recently and am impressed by the level of maturity and courtesy exhibited here.

Silver Fox,

There was an earlier post by Sri Suresh (I am careful ever since the "paavatma" tag i got !!!!!) :caked: in which he suggested that Brahmin Gods were for Brahmins & Non Brahmins had gods of their own. In my view, in Hinduism the form is only a manifestation, means to an end & not the end itself. Hence i had replied to his post that i didn't agree with this postulation.

Kindly permit me to argue to the contrary. True, Hinduism says that there is only one reality, that all jivas are essentially identical and that one must raise his consciousness to this level. However, at the level of consciousness we(or at least I) deal in everyday, it does not mean that I am the same as you or that your bank account is mine. We all have separate lives, do separate things and live in a world where everything revolves around associating names and forms to concepts and entities. It may even be defined as the basis and indicator of our intelligence. Whether an illusion or not, at this level of consciousness, it doesn't make sense to say that while we may make distinctions between many things, we may not do so for religion. Religion itself is a device in this world of names and forms whose sole purpose helps us cross it. Different people have different temperaments and hence different ways of worship and different forms of God. Again while the underlying reality might be the same, at the level of everyday consciousness, they are different and there is no harm in saying so. To give an example, the gopikas and kamsa worshipped not only the same underlying God but the same form of God himself, Sri Krishna - the gopikas out of love and kamsa out of hate. The end result was also the same - they all attained to Krishna. However, nobody will claim (I hope) that their religion or way of worship was the same. In the Ramayana, it is said that when Sri Rama asks Hanuman his relation to Him, Sri Hanuman replies, dehabuddhya...

I think Sri Suresh isn't wrong per se to classify Gods as brahmin/non-brahmin or whatever. It is just an acknowledgment of the fact that one group of people might have evolved their notion of God to suit their needs while another group as per their needs. There is nothing wrong or impossible in that and both can coexist under the wider theoretical umbrella offered by Hinduism. One can however challenge the historical veracity of such divisions and it is on these grounds that I think that Sri Suresh might be mistaken.

 

[hariharan1972]

My point is different

I think Sri Suresh isn't wrong per se to classify Gods as brahmin/non-brahmin or whatever. It is just an acknowledgment of the fact that one group of people might have evolved their notion of God to suit their needs while another group as per their needs. There is nothing wrong or impossible in that and both can coexist under the wider theoretical umbrella offered by Hinduism. One can however challenge the historical veracity of such divisions and it is on these grounds that I think that Sri Suresh might be mistaken.

Kaivalyam (fabulous choice !!!),

My point isn't this. I am not against classification of gods, preferably not, but i don't see great harm in this. What i am opposed to is the theory or notion that brahmin gods are for brahmins & non brahmin gods are for non brahmins. Lord Vishnu is a brahmin but not all his avatars !!!!!. This i feel is a succinct message from the Lord that in the pursuit of 'mukthi or moksha' there can be no discrimination. Lord Rama is a Kshatriya, Lord Krishna is a Yadava but how come they have come to be accepted & stay as part of Brahmin culture ? If this is acceptable how come we don't accept the right of non-brahmins to worship brahmin gods !!!. If we cannot accept 'their right' we shouldn't usurp 'their leaders' as well isn't it. These 'technicalities' apart, the crux of my argument is that we shouldn't find more & more divisions among the Hindu community & later lament about the activities of the Evangelists !!!!

Let me conclude with a small personal example. I am pursuing a management course with IIM Bangalore, targetted for Senior executives from the corporate world - 10+ yrs exp. Before the commencement of the sessions we had a bonding session where we were split into groups to get introduced to one another & find as a group "5 common things" we shared. Despite all our experience & seniority, we couldn't come up with any "good & genuine" ones but somehow we made up with feeble ones. The point that i am coming to is that in any community or group, it is very easy to find "differences" but very "difficult" to find "similarities". The scale as we can see is heavily tilted in favour of the "differences" so let us not add further "weight" into it.

 

[NARAS]

sir- silverfox! welcome to chennai, t.nadu and india!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - hariharan! you probably do not know that the Muthuvel karunanidhi has done it before! a few months back, when the same ko.si.mani visited shri.jayendra sarawathi sankaracharya swamigal, the karunanidhi retorted in public that ko.si.mani would be asked for an explanation as to why he publicly visited an 'accused'. ironically the karunanidhi's own son m.k. azhagiri, is also an accused in the tha.kiruttina murder case. the father of an accused, warns his deputy not to visit an another accused!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - religion is like language in many ways! tamil belongs to tamils, telugu to telugus,but others can also learn them. like that brahminism belongs to brahmins only. but others can also visit brahmin temples or even get converted to brahminism. remember, even if lord shiva were to come to a vaishnava temple, he cannot become a priest there! likewise, lord vishnu cannot become a priest in a saiva temple! similarly, even brahmins of one sect cannot become priests in even brahmin temples of other sect. when there are so many restrictions on even gods, on even brahmins, i do not see anything wrong in imposing some restrictions on people belonging to other sects. it is an universally accepted fact that person of one religion should not interfere in affairs of persons of other religion. brahmins should also not interfere in affairs of non brahmin temples and places of worships of other religions and vice versa. hinduism is a beautiful amalgamation of various gods, faiths and the individuality of each faith should be respected, tolerated and protected. thanks. (again i clarify that i did not refer to hariharan as paavatma at all!!!
actually in other religions, there is so much discrimination inspite of having a common god. white christians enforcing apartheid on black christians though both have a common god and various sects of islam murderously attacking each other even though they have a common god are examples of this. so when other religions are struggling to enforce equality inspite of having a single common god, how can our religion which has so many gods have 100% equality? rather than equality, i think the emphasis should be on tolerance of other faiths

 

[NARAS]

satyarajan fishing in trouble waters!!

sir - satyarajan is at it again! inthe film on the periar there is a song it is said, where it is questioned why sita does not have 3 lines on her back ! it is asked if a squirrel can get lines on its back after rama touches it, why not sita? does that mean rama has not touched sita at all?

what stupid question ! how were lav and kusha born if rama had not touched sita at all! why not apply same logic to the periar? the periar did not have any issues inspite of having 2 wives!if somebody were to ask if the periar had not touched his wives at all,will the 'rationalists' tolerate??

moreover if a women has got lines on her back, does that mean lord rama has touched her? if mother, wife,daughter of the satyarajan have lines on their backs, does that mean rama has touched them??? (MODERATORS PLEASE.PLEASE..DO NOT DELETE THIS POSTING.)

 

[NARAS]

'diamondu' Muthu Asking For Trouble!!

[SIR - tamil cinema poet vairamuthu calls himself as a 'kavi perrarasan'! the dinamalar newspaper calls him frequently as 'diamondu'. this 'diamondu' has written a song in the film periar ridiculing lord rama and mother sita! the 'diamondu' says it is not his own view and the view of the periar is reproduced in the song. the periar had abused kannagi more than sita! the periar has also said that he considers mohammed nabi, founder of islam as an ordinary man, and nothing more than that! the periar had also advocated free sex for women, without any chastity! will the 'diamondu' & his wife follow these 'principles'? will the 'diamondu' write about these'principles' of the periar in his songs? if no, then why write about lord rama & mother sita alone???

 

[NARAS]

the 'rational' chiefminister of t.nadu has 'suddenly' announced that dmk councillors of 99 wards in chennai corpn. will resign and seek re-election! a case against the freeness and fairness of elections is still pending in chennai high court. a judge has already ordered that re-elections should be conducted in these 99 wards. but the final verdict will be known only if the present judge who is hearing the case delivers it.[/quote]

it is not diffcult to guess why the so calledkalaignaa is doing it.if the judge who is hearing the case, pronounces an adverse verdict, which is possible, then the present 'friendly' state election commisioner would have to resign! many police officials would have to be transferred! the entire verdict would have been a major embrassment for the karunanidhi cabinet! now that the councillors have resigned and fresh elections possible, the case itself may be dismissed! so the officials and policemen who connived with the ruling party in conducting the state sponsored vandalism would be reprieved!!

 

[NARAS]

Kalaignaa Spills The Beans!!!!!!

sir - in a function in chennai port yesterday, the karunanidhi kalaignaa has said that it was because of dmk that cars are being exported from chennai port to foreign countries! at this rate, he may soon say that it was becase of dmk that world bank and IMF are functioning!!!!!!!

in the same function, the karunanidhi has said that he threatened puppet prime minister manamohansingh to give the shipping portfolio to dmk mainly because the dmk wanted to implement the sethu samudhiram (dharidiram??) project! allocating portfolios is the prerogative of the primeminister alone! for any other person to publicly threaten a prime minister and forcibly snatch the portfolio he or she wants is a blatant violation of parlimentary decency! and he is proudly boasting about this in public too!!

t.r.baalu, shipping minister has also said that during bjp govt. growth rate was only 6% but not under sonia-maina it is 8%! during bjp rule the emphasis was on inland investment so the growt rate was relatively lower ,as the vajypayee ministry did not run after foreign capital madly! but the present dispensation has opened the country to foreigners more than ever before and the made the country dependent on foreigners! so the growh rate will be higher,but the way they achieved this is dangerous! it could boomerang onthe country one day!

the karunanidhi says the treasury was not in a good condition when he inherited it from the aiadmk in may 2006. actually due to tsunami rehabilitation and flood relief works, the treasury was depleted to some extent. but it was not as bad as the kalaignaa makes it out to be. in any case, will not doling out land, gas, t.v. sets , sarees etc., free of cost irresponsibly drain out the coffers totally sooner or later? the fundamentals of the economy in t.nad also are not all that encouraging when compared to other states. cost of various essential commodities have skyrocketed since dmk came to power last year. the KK (Karunanidhi kalaignaa!) must concentrate on these things more , instead of wasting his time on trivials.

 

[NARAS]

afzal and assam

sir - the same manmohan govt. which argued in courts that cannibal afzal should be hanged, is now moving in slow motion in implementing the death penaly for the murderer even though courts have delivered their final verdict. in assam,manmohan pathetically and tearfully pleaded for mercy from terrorists like ULFA, who have rejected his quailing and are continuing with their anti national pogroms.

it was the same congress govt. which declared india a 'socialist country! now a congress primeminister is trying to destroy brick by brick the same socialist building!! another irony about manamohan!!

 

[NARAS]

the greatness of a brahmin sanyasi!

sir - a brahmin sage's life is probably the most difficult one in the world. unlike other faiths,brahmin priests and sages cannot consume non veggie and they have to be 100% vegetarian. they also have to be 100% celibate. they should wake up daily betweeon04 .00 a.m. to 05.00 a.m. which is called as BRAHMA MUHUTRTHAM - VERY AUSPICIOUS. always during their life, in any conidition, even in old age, they should take bath in cold water only!
they should also not have any desire of any nature at all.
a perfect example of this greatness was the holy paramacharya!!!

 

[NARAS]

enforce uniform civil code!!!

sir - the hindu law has been amended numerous times by politicians, both at state and central level. but the muslim personal law has not been amended even once at any level. even islamic countries have made many changes in islamic laws. but in india neither bjp nor 'rational' parties have touched the so called shariah. implementation of uniform civil code soon as mandated by indian constitution is only way to enforce a secular fabric in our republic.

 

[NARAS]

Rule Of Law!!!

[SIR - as far as i know, indian law clearly bans defaming religions. this means that persons like the karunanidhi cannot mouth abuses & obscenities on religion at their whims and fancies, on the pretext that they are 'rationalists'. but surprisingly, i don't think even a single 'rationalist' has been convicted by courts. the karunanidhi, who calls himself as 'kalaignan' is supposed to be custodian of law, being the chiefminister. but he encourages and finances abusers of religion out of tax payer money, and worse he himself vomits periodic abuses on our religion! as a reader in dinamalar has rightly pointed out , the karunanidhi is not chief minister, he is 'cheap minister of t.ndu!!!

 

[NARAS]

Dr. ramadoss slams the dmk!!!

PMK Supremo Dr. ramadoss has openly said that the freebies doled out by dmk govt. of t.nadu will not be of any help to the poor. the ramadoss has also criticised the decision of t.nadu govt. to give the annual award on the periar to the 'rational' actor, the satyarajan.in today's dinamalar, a reader, who seems to be a PMK sympathiser in letters to editor column, has attacked the satyarajan as a 'jollu party'!! 'jollu' party means a male with sex weakness discharging saliva on seeing a nymphet!!!!!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

Our Website And Brahminism!!!

sir - we call our website'tamil brahmins' .but i am sure many non tamil brahmins are also members and surf this site. like that, i am sure many tamil non brahmins should also be surfing this site. some of them could even be members. persons who are both non tamils and non brahmins should also be surfing this site, and some of them should also be members. this is because there is no question asked about caste in the application form. BUT THE MODERATORS ARE ALWAYS BRAHMINS.ONLY THEN THE IDENTITY & INDIVIDUALNESS OF THIS SITE CAN BE PROTECTED.similarly, non brahmins can visit and pray, contribute, fund & participate in brahmin temples and vice versa. BUT THE CONTROL SHOULD ALWAYS BE BRAHMINS & IN BRAHMIN TEMPLES & NON BRAHMINS IN NON BRAHMIN TEMPLES.

there are many similarities and at the same time differences between brahmins & non brahmins. of course, evangelists & islamic mullahs may try to exploit the differences. but this should not deter us from speaking the truth.

 

[NARAS]

women & olympics!!

sir - so much is being said and written about equality of sexes. but remember even in olympics, the most famous international event on earth, men & women compete separately and not with each other! and the standard in men's events are always better than women! if even in modern events run by advanced countries, these state of affairs prevails, what is wrong in brahminism & orthodox hinduism segregating men and women???

by the by why the representation of women in this site is very low???

 

[NARAS]

sir - instead of having caste based quotas why not have quotas on basis of economic criteria? similarly why not have caste quotas for persons of inter caste , inter relgious marriages & their offsprings? both these quotas will not be a violation of indian constitution,where as caste quotas are a blatant violation of basic character of indian constitution which guarantees equality for all. of course any kind of quota will have to be temporary only!!!

similarly why not insist on duties for those categories of indians who enjoy quota benefits? after all those who enjoy concessions out of tax payers money should also be made accountable t!

another irony - if you abuse an sc/st by his caste name you become an accused under law and get jailed. but if you abuse brahmins?? you become chiefminister of t.nadu!!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir -following the footsteps of mrifan and hariharan here is my 'pure' tamil translation effort!

PURE TAMIL EQUIVALENT FOR NEW ZEALAND = PUTHU + KADAL + NILAM!!!!

LONG LIVE 'PURE' TAMIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

[SIR - IT was raining heavily. but a person did not open his umbrella inspite of having one. when questioned he said 'if i open the umbrella, the umbrella will get drenched and spoiled because of rain!!' like that to conceal a truth just because it will produce certain embrassments is not correct. i am referring to the request of my friends not to mention about differences between brahmins and non brahmins. but my intention is not to divide r separate (both mean the same of course!) brahmins & non brahmins. i only highlighted individuality of brahminism. brahminism & even hinduism do not depend on numbers, unlike christianity and islam. brahminism depends on quality. so we should not be bothered about losing numbers to christians and muslims beyond a limit. of course, i agree even non brahminic hinduism has certain individal characters , though not to the extent of brahminism!!!

 

[NARAS]

The Ugly Face Of Indian Islam!!!!

SIR - muslims in bangalore have indulged in unprovoked vandalism against hindus, public & private property on the pretext of opposing hanging of saddam hussain! one wonders why indian citizens should be disturbed so much by the hanging of an iraqi fascist. it clearly shows most of indian muslims are arabians living in india , rather than indians who have embraced islam. dinamalar has published the news in 2nd page. but the hindu has underplayed the incident and moved it to the middle pages! may be it is 'communal' even to highlight atrocities committed by muslims!

may be hariharan can throw more light on this incident,being in bangalore. are you safe Hari??