How can we encourage our kids to go to temple more?

[sangom]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

I am told that in the Brahmanda Purana a rather lengthy account of lingam, showing it to be without doubt the penis of Lord Siva himself, is there. This was told to me by an old, orthodox brahmin. I do not have the purana. He also did not/could not give chapter & verse details.

The gist of what he told is somewhat as follows:

The ṛṣis of dārukavanam once became very haughty. Siva wanted to humble them and so appeared to them naked and ithyphallic, and seduced all the ṛṣipatnis. The ṛṣis, in their anger cursed that the lingam of śiva fall to the ground. The world was immediately plunged into utter darkness, nor was any new life of any sort born, because śiva’s liṅgam is the source of all energy - heat, light etc., and also life.

The ṛṣis now realized their great mistake and sought the help of brahma. He helped by restoring śiva with a new liṅgaṃ but then this caused desegregation of castes (men and real gods) in heaven and the gods complained to brahma about it. brahma then covered the primordial liṅgam which had originally fallen to the earth, with a false stone liṅgam but that had no effect.

The ṛṣis pleaded before brahma as to what they should do now. brahma suggests that all of them go and seek śiva’s refuge. When they sincerely pray, śiva says that his liṅgaṃ will have to be established (ஸ்தாபித்து) and worship it with devotion and you will get all your desires fulfilled, etc.


I do not vouchsafe for the accuracy of this. But before casting aside the fertility god aspect of liṅgaṃ and making it just a yupa skambham, may be somebody can buy the Brahmanda Purana (Tamil or English translation) and study it.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Raju Sir, Greetings.

To see a phallus and a Yoni and an act of procreation there it requires a very specially conditioned mind. A mind that is conditioned to look for such things in inappropriate places, a mind that has borrowed liberally from similar mindsets of western scholars-in short a weird and depraved mind.

Sir, with due respect to your opinions, I was shown Phallus and Yoni symbol when I was studying in grade eight. I was told, the phallus symbol represented 'pourusham/purushan' and the 'yoni' part represented 'prakruthi/shakthi' to denote the procreation by a respectable Gurukkal. When he explained these things to me, he was about 70-75 years old. He called himself 'sivacharya'; I did not understand though. I am not using the Tamih words for the parts; even in Tamizh terms, I was not uncomfortable at all, not then, not now. I am considering this as the example for the broadmindedness of the ancient people of India. When other religions considered 'sex' as sin, there was a religion which virtually placed 'sex' on the pedestal. I looked at the positive side of it.

With 'Artha Naareeswara', although I joke about that in my home, I actually think our forefathers were enlightened souls to place manhood and the womanhood equally at the same pedestal. Along the line somewhere we lost our marbles.

Cheers!

 

[Servall]

Ms. Geetu Habibah:

It is my pleasure to welcome you to this forum.

The opening post was specific to seek input from believers how we can encourage our kids to go to temples. My personal concern was with kids born and brought up outside India. I personally felt the hindu faith is not very creative and accomodative to our kids by creating opportunities and make it interesting to visit places of worship and this I thought would lead to gradual erosion of their faith in religion and God. The premise I made there was, that visit to temples have inherent benefits and never doubted 'why' we should encourage our kids to go to temples. As you can really see from the responses, we have some consensus of how we can do that plus many other debates which are not necessarily in line with the opening post.

This is my appeal to you.

Seeing that you have integrated yourself with Muslim faith, I would be personally delighted to get your perception to the issue. Do you believe Hindu religion can do a better job to make our kids more religious and how does Islam or your household get the kids to go mosques often? When they do, is it out of their own volition or by sheer force of the parents?

We would love to get your thoughts on this.

Again welcome....

 

[Yamaka]

Hi I just joined and found this thread real controversial.
Nice to join TB Forum

Hi Geetu habibah:

Welcome.. I have been in this Forum since last Feb 2011. I am enjoying the debates very much.

I hope you find this enjoyable, too.

My advice is if you don't like a particular point of view, you may debate or just ignore the poster altogether - you don't need to even read his/her post next time!

I engage with all of my "other side" with vigor, consequently I have earned "a lot of names" around here! ROFL..

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

"I do not want to repeat. there is no vivid act of sex in the shiva linga in the temples. Period" - Raju post # 225.

Dear Raju:

So far in the Forum, myself, M/s Nara, Raghy, Sangom Sir have seen sex (phallus and vagina) in the "Lingam" in temples.

Let other members come out say one way or the other.

I am only trying to establish what we see in most of the Siva Temples. I hope you are correct, dear Raju.

"It is all culture. India is not the only country with such cultural traits. Go to any arab Countries you will find more stringent cultural codes when it comes to interaction between genders. what is good or bad is relative."

Oh, this is interesting... Yes, Arab cultural codes are much more stringent... and they don't have a Lingam worship in their Mosques also! They are not idol worshipers... they look God as an Abstraction in the Void.

Bringing Arab culture to the support of Hindu culture is a fascinating way, indeed. I don't know how our Hindutva scholars in the Forum would stomach it! LOL

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

"Atheists have nothing to look forward to, nothing higher to achieve and are happy with procreation and vacuous arguments. And they are needed to augment the numbers and keep the population at above critical level." - post 221, Sarang.

As a self proclaimed Atheist, I need to answer this -

1. I look forward everyday to "discover" something new in this Universe, hidden by Nature in the neuro-architecture of human brain. This is my profession.

2. Yes, I am happy with sex, and I have procreated two wonderful kids.

My younger one just got the MOST prestigious World Award: Rhodes Scholarship to study in the University of Oxford starting next Fall.

3. My estimate says the god worshiping Hindus are about 1 billion and the Non-god worshipers including Atheists are about 2.5 billions in this world.

The vast majority of worshipers in the West are becoming Pragmatists thinking of God just once a month or a year...unlike many of the worshiping Hindus.

As such, I don't know who is "needed to augment the numbers and keep the population at above critical level". LOL.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Raghy in post #227:

I was shown Phallus and Yoni symbol when I was studying in grade eight. I was told, the phallus symbol represented 'pourusham/purushan' and the 'yoni' part represented 'prakruthi/shakthi' to denote the procreation by a respectable Gurukkal. When he explained these things to me, he was about 70-75 years old. He called himself 'sivacharya'; I did not understand though. I am not using the Tamih words for the parts; even in Tamizh terms, I was not uncomfortable at all, not then, not now

.

Your Gurukkal was wrong in his understanding of the deity which he was serving life long. May be it was not his fault because he was taught that way by his elders. My point is only this that we need not search all the meanings that are available for the word 'lingA' in Sanskrit and zero in on the 'male sexual organ' to understand the Linga concept. There is reasonable logical ground to maintain that the meaning was only'indicative of'. As for the pourusham/prakruthi etc there are far better ways to explain them and our ancestors were far more resourceful than to rely on such silly images to explain their philosophical concepts. Whether you were comfortable or not with the terms used by the Gurukkal is beside the point.

I am considering this as the example for the broadmindedness of the ancient people of India. When other religions considered 'sex' as sin, there was a religion which virtually placed 'sex' on the pedestal. I looked at the positive side of it.

For a people or a religion to be accepted as 'broad-minded' it is not necessary that they should accept sex or sex-talk anywhere and everywhere. I think we are confusing culture with misinterpretation/mischief in religious matters here. I am quite comfortable talking about all aspects of sex with an adult individual. But to expect me to accept such sex-talk in a temple that too by a Gurukkal and that too about the deity which I have gone there to worship is just crazy. Arthanareeswara is okay as there is no sexual overtones and you can comfortably explain it to your grandchild without feeling awkward.

 

[suraju06]

Yamaka in post #230:

I am only trying to establish what we see in most of the Siva Temples. I hope you are correct, dear Raju.

If you have gone to many Siva Temples, you would have certainly seen in many of them that there is no long erect cylindrical stem standing on the pedestal. Instead it is just a small hemisphere sitting snugly on the pedestal. In the holiest of holy places Kashi it is not even a hemisphere, it is just a small spherical (not a perfect sphere) ball shaped linga sitting on the pedestal. So how can any one imagine all that they imagine and declare that they see a sexual act there? This is just crazy.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Reference Yamaka in post #230:

Oh, this is interesting... Yes, Arab cultural codes are much more stringent... and they don't have a Lingam worship in their Mosques also! They are not idol worshipers... they look God as an Abstraction in the Void.

Yamaka you are just impossible! I take it that you are just telling that Arabs do not worship idol in whatever shape and leave it at that. If you are making any value judgment there I will have to question it and you will have to answer.

Cheers.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear srinivasan !
i also requested our forum to tell me why siva is worshiped in linga roopam in my previous post.you have requested the clarification from saivite leaders. good suggestion and hope to get correct answer
cheers
narayanan(guruvayurapapn)

 

[sangom]

Smt. Geetu Habibah has already explained that she has Tabra roots and she wants to explore those connections.

 

[suraju06]

Reference Yamaka in post #231:

As a self proclaimed Atheist, I need to answer this -I look forward everyday to "discover" something new in this Universe, hidden by Nature in the neuro-architecture of human brain. This is my profession.
2. Yes, I am happy with sex, and I have procreated two wonderful kids.
My younger one just got the MOST prestigious World Award: Rhodes Scholarship to study in the University of Oxford starting next Fall.

I have many friends here in Chennai who can brag of more and better achievements.

3. My estimate says the god worshiping Hindus are about 1 billion and the Non-god worshipers including Atheists are about 2.5 billions in this world.
The vast majority of worshipers in the West are becoming Pragmatists thinking of God just once a month or a year...unlike many of the worshiping Hindus.
As such, I don't know who is "needed to augment the numbers and keep the population at above critical level". LOL.

You have cooked up your maths badly. The theists are more than the atheists in this world. Whether pragmatists or not they are theists/believers.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear yamaha !
happy to note that you are having happy sex and two wonderful kids and they are talented .but
did you discover anything to get only male or female baby without scanning and avoiding the unwanted baby? sex satisfaction is different and child birth is different .pleae think it over.all intelligent people are not succeeding
cheers

 

[Yamaka]

Reference Yamaka in post #231:
I have many friends here in Chennai who can brag of more and better achievements.

You have cooked up your maths badly. The theists are more than the atheists in this world. Whether pragmatists or not they are theists/believers.

Dear Raju:

I doubt seriously whether you have any such friends! ROFL.. then LOL.

Why can't you write about anything YOU have achieved, if any? Are you so prudish? I want to rejoice about you, surely.

I stand by my numbers;

Hindus worldwide about 1 billion
Christians ,, 2 billions
Muslims ,, 1.5 billions
Non-God worshipers 2.5 billions

Most of the Christians in the West will not put up with the religiosity of the East or the Arab world.

Please show me your math on this...

If Santa Claus is the most important person during Christmas, tell me how Christian most Christians are?!

Love you, Raju!

 

[Yamaka]

dear yamaha !
happy to note that you are having happy sex and two wonderful kids and they are talented .but
did you discover anything to get only male or female baby without scanning and avoiding the unwanted baby? sex satisfaction is different and child birth is different .pleae think it over.all intelligent people are not succeeding
cheers

Dear Guru:

1. I am married to a PhD Scientist, a Trichy Brahmin - I call her a Smart and Sweet person. She has the wonderful knowledge about her body: She knew exactly when she was ovulating, when we would avoid unprotected sex.

Hence, both her pregnancies were quite planned a month in advance! She used to tell me," I WILL miss my period this month! And...boom... that happened!" She did it twice about 5 years a part.

No, we did not do any scanning of babies; no unwanted pregnancies either.

2. I have a hypothesis to make here - it needs to be tested:

If you have satisfying sex with your partner every time (both sex should get orgasm at the end of the ACT), you will have healthy, intelligent babies. You should have enough sex according to the NEED and WANT of the couple.

You should never abuse your health with bad behavior like illicit drugs, alcohol, tobacco or Superstitious practices etc etc.

3. Measurement of Success is very subjective...

For example, my son was asked in the most important interview during the Rhodes this:

"Mr. Y, you have the highest GPA from Stanford University this year - with this, you could have fetched a plum job in the Silicon Valley or Wall Street, for sure and become a millionaire very fast... why did you choose to go to Haiti to serve as a Volunteer in a rural God forsaken land?"

My son said, "It's all because of my moral stand in Pragmatic Solidarity with the Poor and the Voiceless in the World!"

They challenged him on ever word he used. With his debating skills, he took everyone (of the ten member Panel) to the cleaners! That was Y Family Style! LOL.

At the end, they all unanimously elected him to be the Rhodes Scholar which is meant to "Fight the World's Fight".

I have to ask my son after 20 years, "Son, are you feeling successful?"

Cheers.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Guru:

1. I am married to a PhD Scientist, a Trichy Brahmin - I call her a Smart and Sweet person. She has the wonderful knowledge about her body: She knew exactly when she was ovulating, when we would avoid unprotected sex.

Hence, both her pregnancies were quite planned a month in advance! She used to tell me," I WILL miss my period this month! And...boom... that happened!" She did it twice about 5 years a part.

No, we did not do any scanning of babies; no unwanted pregnancies either.

2. I have a hypothesis to make here - it needs to be tested:

If you have satisfying sex with your partner every time (both sex should get orgasm at the end of the ACT), you will have healthy, intelligent babies. You should have enough sex according to the NEED and WANT of the couple.

You should never abuse your health with bad behavior like illicit drugs, alcohol, tobacco or Superstitious practices etc etc.

3. Measurement of Success is very subjective...

For example, my son was asked in the most important interview during the Rhodes this:

"Mr. Y, you have the highest GPA from Stanford University this year - with this, you could have fetched a plum job in the Silicon Valley or Wall Street, for sure and become a millionaire very fast... why did you choose to go to Haiti to serve as a Volunteer in a rural God forsaken land?"

My son said, "It's all because of my moral stand in Pragmatic Solidarity with the Poor and the Voiceless in the World!"

They challenged him on ever word he used. With his debating skills, he took everyone (of the ten member Panel) to the cleaners! That was Y Family Style! LOL.

At the end, they all unanimously elected him to be the Rhodes Scholar which is meant to "Fight the World's Fight".

I have to ask my son after 20 years, "Son, are you feeling successful?"

Cheers.

Y,

congrats to your son, for rhodes scholarship. truly a remarkable achievement.

re your hypothesis re sex,

 

[Yamaka]

Y,

congrats to your son, for rhodes scholarship. truly a remarkable achievement.

re your hypothesis re sex,

Dear K:

Thanks. I appreciate it.

I hope my hypothesis is right! Otherwise, I will be a very unhappy man! LoL.

 

[Nara]

The Shivalingam has three parts, the base is called Avudaiyar, on top of it is yoni, and on top of it is the lingam/phallus. It is quite understandable that people today are embarrassed by this symbolism and want to come up with alternative explanations.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear friends, Is there a way to judge ,by looking at the married couple, the possibilities of them getting Sons/ daughters or both. Hopefully, it would not be possible, I think. But, however, in my long years of observation of couples among known relatives & friends, I have fairly realized , that, couples having only sons , are distinctly different in some ways ? Will any member contribute to my assessment ?

A.Srinivasan ( Rishikesan )

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Rishikesan,
I have four daughters and one son.Whenever my wife was pregnant,my boss cum family friend(who was an astrologer and knew by heart my horoscope and that of my wife) used to tell me in the third month of pregnancy that my wife would deliver only a female child.He used to often tell me that he would choose the appropriate time when we should try for a male child.I did not give serious consideration to his advice.
In 1960 my Maharastrian friend told me that according to Aurvedic philosophy,if the girl is acidic,she will get only girls as children.Ladies who are alkaline will deliver male children.There is a method in Aurveda for conversion from acidic to alkaline.He tried the Ayurvedic method and got a son after 5 daughters.
I was married in 1961 and my four daughters were born between 1963 to 1970.I never tried the ayurvedic method.
In 1967 i went to Dhanbad on official work.The regional director of that office saw my palm and gave me in writing some dtails about me.He wrote that I will have five
daughters and then one son.He suggested that I should wear two rings,one with Diamond and another gold in which some numericals should be engraved in nine colums,three vertically and three horizontally.The total of all the numbers in any manner will be 9.He had mentioned that I may get boost in official career if I wear the two rings.I did not wear any ring.The only gold ring which was presented to me during my marriage also was lying in the house and my wife susequently converted the same into some other jewellery.In fact I had one daughter in December,1961.It was a premature born child and survived only for a few hours.
In 1972 one Sardarji came to my house in Rajahmundry and after seeing my palm told me that I will get a son.I was blessed with a son in 1974 with whom I am now staying in USA.
When I became a member of this Forum in 2010,I thought I had read an article
by an Iyengar(I may be wrong.It could be some other website).It was stated in that article the results of sexual contact between couples from the fourth day of monthly periods and what type of child one will get.For some days it was indicated that the may be invaid or other physical/mental ailments.I could not locate the article susequently.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear friends, Is there a way to judge ,by looking at the married couple, the possibilities of them getting Sons/ daughters or both. Hopefully, it would not be possible, I think. But, however, in my long years of observation of couples among known relatives & friends, I have fairly realized , that, couples having only sons , are distinctly different in some ways ? Will any member contribute to my assessment ?
A.Srinivasan ( Rishikesan )

I don't know the scientific truth in the following -

1. My wife felt that her first pregnancy will give her a girl because she gained lot of weight (more than 30 lbs soon after missing her first period till the end of pregnancy). My folks in village always bought into the argument that if the pregnant mother looks bigger in her buttocks area, it would be a girl... my wife's intuition turned out to be true.

On the other hand, if the mother doesn't gain much weight or gain "less weight(?)", and her buttocks look "normal", it would be a boy.

There is NO way possible to predict whether a Y-sperm will reach the egg first or the X-sperm... it is impossible.

I don't believe any "acidic" "alkaline" theory at all.. I don't believe in Astrology or Ayurvedic treatment to get a boy or girl, period.

2. When my wife was pregnant again after about 4 years, she felt it would be a boy, even though the OB/GYN said after an early ultrasound it would be a girl, and noted it down on her Record. She gained about 20 lbs during pregnancy. Her buttocks did not look big!

So when the baby was born, the OB/GYN was embarrassed to note that it was a boy, as felt by the mother!!

Interestingly, my son weighed more than my daughter at birth... son came through the birth canal crying, while daughter didn't go thru any pain, as she was a "double footling breach baby" removed by C-section.


My wife felt very jubilant and healthier during both pregnancies; she worked full time (about 10 hours at formal work) and did lot more work at home than pre-pregnancy periods. She ate balanced diet always and took the multivitamin pill given by her OB/GYN. She had regular visit to the doctor's office as scheduled.

I still maintain my laughable hypothesis that if parents have enjoyable romance and sex regularly (both partners reaching orgasm is the key here), and plan their pregnancy right, then they will get healthy smart kids, whether boy & a girl, all girls or all boys.

Cheers.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

long way in their childrenbeing religious,happy and successful when they reach adulthood.This can be in addition to visits to temples with children.

 

[Yamaka]

Reference Yamaka's post #217:
Please show. They will understand it better than you. Because they are still searching for the diamond whereas you have searched and already found a pebble looking like a diamond.

Cheers.

Dear Raju:

I showed it to my wife.

She replied," I hope and wish he is right.. but.. but everywhere I go, Meenakshi Temple in Madurai, or Houston or the Tanjore Big Temple, there is very clear distinct phallus and vagina in the Lingam Statue... even in some places they drip water or cow's milk, as though Lord Siva is shedding his semen inside his Sakthi... which is very embarrassing to tell you the least!.... why can't people see clearly what is shown there? Why can't someone change all this 5000 year old practice and replace it with the Dancing Nataraja?"

My son said, "Well.... what I know is what I see in the Temple, and what I read in the Net and what my high school Hindu friends say about it...What's the Majority or Consensus view from your Forum, anyway? Again, to remove all the ambiguity, why not replace it with a Dancing Nataraja? But, again, who can command a Temple Administrator to do the change?.... it's very impossible in Hinduism, as I understand it".

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

long way in their childrenbeing religious,happy and successful when they reach adulthood.This can be in addition to visits to temples with children.

If Temples/Mosques/Churches are designed as Cultural Centers and many activities are planned everyday or every week, then our youngsters will have some interest to visit them regularly ON THEIR OWN.

They care more about Culture than about Religion and God.

If not, they will shun away...Who is at fault? I say it's the recalcitrant egoistic elders and the Administrators of these Centers!

Wait & watch.

 

[sravna]

I think for believers in spirituality there is one overwhelming reason why going to temples should be encouraged.

Space, time are formed because of projection of discretized reality of brahman. When the discrete parts are seen as whole it is nothing but brahman. I think in temples, due to its spiritual nature, the discrete space exists as a whole. It is as if you are experiencing brahman in that space.