How much of a hypocrite we all are

[sangom]

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1. ps. Recurring themes in my conversation with very religious people are FEAR of death, loss of wealth and contracting bad diseases like cancer, Alzheimer's or Parkinson's diseases or losing the relationship with kids and wife etc etc.. my answer to them is just by praying to Gods WILL never protect you from such the impending events.. the Nature's wrath... Nature will always win... my mother, a pious traditional person who prayed God for all her life was hit with stomach cancer and died even after proper medical intervention! "What does that tell you?" I ask. A hurricane Rita hit our area; many Churches and churchgoers lost their lives; we all escaped with small scratches!! What say you?

Y,

I do not think it is fair to compare a faithful being killed in a hurricane to a godless being spared is faith related.

To most people, faith is a source of comfort. various people lean on it, various times, various ways. For some it is mental satisfaction. For others it is fear driven. For the jihadist, it is reward driven (next world 70 virgins et al).

To be without a faith, is ok. there needs to be a certain amount of strength drawn from within, to live an atheist. That is what

I think. But it is not right to say, that all the misfortunes that happen will only happen to those who believe. The hurricane could have struck your household too. Just by chance it did not.

I too believe in the power of nature. I believe that we are abusing it. We humans, I believe have corrupted nature to the nth hilt in the past century, and continuing to do so.

I believe just like the ebola virus, other viruses will appear and cause mass deaths and destruction. For the earth cannot sustain this level of plunder, and the air cannot sustain this level of pollution, for ever.

Alfred Hitchcock produced a movie ‘Birds’ in the 1950s. in a small Californian town, for no reason, one fine day, birds of various feathers gather, and attack the humans. This goes on for a few days, and then, just like they came, the birds disappear. GREAT MOVIE. I am waiting for more ‘Birds’ to happen.

Nature WILL revenge.

Shri Y & K,

There is a word ṛtaṃ which signifies eternal law. Even the various vedic deities are supposed to be born from and are controlled by this ṛtaṃ which may be translated, for want of an equivalent word in English (at least I don't know) as the Inexorable Cosmic Law. If we start believing that it is this Inexorable Cosmic Law which is what we believe as God or Gods, the seeming inequities like why some people get spared by natural calamities, contagions, accidents, etc., can be explained in a simple and logical manner. Each living item in this cosmos is governed by the reactions for its actions. Unless one watches his steps and does the right action or Karma, the reaction for wayward actions or Karmas may be beyond what the person can envisage or control. This is at the root of all such inequalities that we find and point our accusing finger at the God concept. In reality, even the Gods to whom people pray, are helpless before the overriding authority of this ṛtaṃ or Inexorable Cosmic Law.

This will also answer the question, "Why bad things happen to (apparently) good people?"

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Yamaha,
I strongly believe(from your own statements)that the sincere and honest prayers of
your late beloved mother and your wife (or as explained by shri.Sangom by good actions
of members of your family and other friends circles and even by people unknown to you but your wellwishers,result in your present position in Life.
I know though your permanent life partner(besides your wife) i.e;I mean your conscience may agree with this bare Truth,your ego will never accept my statement.
In my opinion you are a honest,and decent person,highly dependable.
Hope you have read in your childhood a saying" Nallar oruvar ullel, avar poruttu yellarkkum peyyum Mazhai"

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I will be obliged if some one clarify as to why only a newly wed woman who went with her husband on Honeymoon to NEPAL from INDIA and a helpless victim in the hijacked
plane along with hundred and odd passengers became a widow in the plane by the brutal actions of the hijackers while all others could return safely to India along with the then Foreign Minister in Shri.Atal Bihari Vajpaye's cabinet.

 

[C RAVI]

I will be obliged if some one clarify as to why only a newly wed woman who went with her husband on Honeymoon to NEPAL from INDIA and a helpless victim in the hijacked
plane along with hundred and odd passengers became a widow in the plane by the brutal actions of the hijackers while all others could return safely to India along with the then Foreign Minister in Shri.Atal Bihari Vajpaye's cabinet.

Sri B.Krishnamurthy,

A set of people would consider this as misfortune FATE of the newly wed couples. It was their destiny and the couples had to face trauma.

A another set of people would consider this as just a random happening. A incident just happened and the new groom was a victim. If he would have not been a victim, than any other X,Y,Z would be. Nothing to do with their FATE.

This incident and the reasonings are just one of the many many life situations of each individual.

The happening of the above incident was beyond one's control. But there are many life time situations/circumstances of each individual in their personal life, that ironically would leave them no where among fellow humans.

 

[Yamaka]

1. ps. Recurring themes in my conversation with very religious people are FEAR of death, loss of wealth and contracting bad diseases like cancer, Alzheimer's or Parkinson's diseases or losing the relationship with kids and wife etc etc.. my answer to them is just by praying to Gods WILL never protect you from such the impending events.. the Nature's wrath... Nature will always win... my mother, a pious traditional person who prayed God for all her life was hit with stomach cancer and died even after proper medical intervention! "What does that tell you?" I ask. A hurricane Rita hit our area; many Churches and churchgoers lost their lives; we all escaped with small scratches!! What say you?

Y,

I do not think it is fair to compare a faithful being killed in a hurricane to a godless being spared is faith related.

To most people, faith is a source of comfort. various people lean on it, various times, various ways. For some it is mental satisfaction. For others it is fear driven. For the jihadist, it is reward driven (next world 70 virgins et al).

To be without a faith, is ok. there needs to be a certain amount of strength drawn from within, to live an atheist. That is what

I think. But it is not right to say, that all the misfortunes that happen will only happen to those who believe. The hurricane could have struck your household too. Just by chance it did not.

I too believe in the power of nature. I believe that we are abusing it. We humans, I believe have corrupted nature to the nth hilt in the past century, and continuing to do so.

I believe just like the ebola virus, other viruses will appear and cause mass deaths and destruction. For the earth cannot sustain this level of plunder, and the air cannot sustain this level of pollution, for ever.

Alfred Hitchcock produced a movie ‘Birds’ in the 1950s. in a small Californian town, for no reason, one fine day, birds of various feathers gather, and attack the humans. This goes on for a few days, and then, just like they came, the birds disappear. GREAT MOVIE. I am waiting for more ‘Birds’ to happen.

Nature WILL revenge.

Dear K:

I see your point.

However, what all I say is prayers and poojas will NOT spare you from the wrath of Nature which will hit everyone indiscriminately....

There is NO known modus operandi for the religious prayers, poojas and other rituals to negotiate with Nature..which is the Supreme force, as I believe.

Although, most of the Believers think their Gods have the power to do so! That's precisely what I contest here.

What are the practical repercussions of such Faith and Believe?

As I wrote in the other Thread "Weekend Wannabes", the prototypical family man I described is poor and very religious and is focusing on wrong things, and wasting his energy and time, IMO

Instead, of focusing on how to improve the personal skill levels and minimize the size of the family (he has to feed five mouths with his Rs. 200 a day income) he dwells on his prayers and "bribing the Gods"!

Had I been in his shoes,

1. I would not have married till I improved my skill sets to earn at least Rs 1000 a day.
2. I would not have had children till my financial clout increased very much.

3. I would not have had three children - I would have stopped at just one.

Why didn't he do that?

Because he was brainwashed to think that "God makes all decisions, and He will feed the family".

If this structural impediment is not reduced in India, the Red China will grow must faster and become a Super Power in Asia, and could send its Red Army towards New Delhi... as you know very well how the foreign powers invaded India and occupied for 1000 years! That will continue, I am afraid.

That's the existential problem for India, I dare say.

Cheers.

Regards

Y

 

[C RAVI]

Dear K:

I see your point.

However, what all I say is prayers and poojas will NOT spare you from the wrath of Nature which will hit everyone indiscriminately....

There is NO known modus operandi for the religious prayers, poojas and other rituals to negotiate with Nature..which is the Supreme force, as I believe.

Although, most of the Believers think their Gods have the power to do so! That's precisely what I contest here.

What are the practical repercussions of such Faith and Believe?

As I wrote in the other Thread "Weekend Wannabes", the prototypical family man I described is poor and very religious and is focusing on wrong things, and wasting his energy and time, IMO

Instead, of focusing on how to improve the personal skill levels and minimize the size of the family (he has to feed five mouths with his Rs. 200 a day income) he dwells on his prayers and "bribing the Gods"!

Had I been in his shoes,

1. I would not have married till I improved my skill sets to earn at least Rs 1000 a day.
2. I would not have had children till my financial clout increased very much.

3. I would not have had three children - I would have stopped at just one.

Why didn't he do that?

Because he was brainwashed to think that "God makes all decisions, and He will feed the family".

If this structural impediment is not reduced in India, the Red China will grow must faster and become a Super Power in Asia, and could send its Red Army towards New Delhi... as you know very well how the foreign powers invaded India and occupied for 1000 years! That will continue, I am afraid.

That's the existential problem for India, I dare say.

Cheers.

Regards

Y

Sri Yamaka,

There are few sets of people here on this Earth...

One set of people would be reluctant to improve themselves and if questioned would blame their FATE and or would say that their belief and prayers to GOD is giving no fruits..

Another set of people would be hard working, ambitious, smart and responsible to improve themselves and would never believe that, there was some support of super natural power (GOD) to their favor.

Another set of people would be equally achieving all with their sheer will and sense of responsibilities and would thank God with true belief though out their life, to support their efforts and to make them stand perfectly (with out leaving them stranded, beyond their control) where they are now with happiness.

Another set of people would neither be hardworking nor would be blaming the super natural poweres for not supporting to their favor.


Highly qualified, competitive astrologers would say that, all the sets of people above (including any other sets if exist) are destined/fated, to think, act, react and conclude on their own and so are living. Because their horoscope is showing as what they got to bear in this janma based on their Karma.

 

[sangom]

I will be obliged if some one clarify as to why only a newly wed woman who went with her husband on Honeymoon to NEPAL from INDIA and a helpless victim in the hijacked
plane along with hundred and odd passengers became a widow in the plane by the brutal actions of the hijackers while all others could return safely to India along with the then Foreign Minister in Shri.Atal Bihari Vajpaye's cabinet.

Respected Shri Krishnamurthy,

If we are prepared to subscribe to my theory of Inexorable Cosmic Law, it may be presumed that the newly wed woman was not to enjoy marital happiness for long from her first marriage. In the olden days this would have sealed the fate of that poor woman for life, but not necessarily today. Let us all wish her all the best in her life.

 

[sangom]

Sri Yamaka,

There are few sets of people here on this Earth...

One set of people would be reluctant to improve themselves and if questioned would blame their FATE and or would say that their belief and prayers to GOD is giving no fruits..

Another set of people would be hard working, ambitious, smart and responsible to improve themselves and would never believe that, there was some support of super natural power (GOD) to their favor.

Another set of people would be equally achieving all with their sheer will and sense of responsibilities and would thank God with true belief though out their life, to support their efforts and to make them stand perfectly (with out leaving them stranded, beyond their control) where they are now with happiness.

Another set of people would neither be hardworking nor would be blaming the super natural poweres for not supporting to their favor.


Highly qualified, competitive astrologers would say that, all the sets of people above (including any other sets if exist) are destined/fated, to think, act, react and conclude on their own and so are living. Because their horoscope is showing as what they got to bear in this janma based on their Karma.

Dear Shri Ravi,

I have read a simile of "Fate & Freewill" saying that it is like a cow tethered to a pole by a strong, unbreakable rope, so that the cow does not go away very far in the grazing. (This is of course a universal practice which most of us must be aware of.) The cow is fully free to graze within that circle (of which the rope-length will be the radius,and the pole will be the centre). It has to strain its neck, feet and, may be the torso also, to graze the immediate vicinity just outside this circle. A mature cow usually can reach one or two feet more in this way if it feels hungry enough and exhausts all the grass within the "fated" circle; but a calf will not be able to reach out that skilfully, nor will it reach that much outside the rope's tether.

Fate & Freewill are exactly like the above. God is not necessary in this. The pole is the "Fate" which controls a man; the length of the rope gets longer as the accumulated results of one's actions. (Whether we limit this to the current birth or extend it to previous births also, will depend on one's religious belief.) In our life this rope-length determines the extend of our "Free Will" viz., how predisposed are we for hard work, to be ambitious, smart and responsible to improve ourselves; a very short rope will curb this freewill very much and the person will then fall in the category you describe as reluctant to improve themselves and if questioned would blame their FATE and or would say that their belief and prayers to GOD is giving no fruits. It may also be noted that more of allowed freewill will lead a person through the right path.

Hence the most important thing for us to do is to ensure that our actions or karma are good. The concept of God is desirable but not necessary. To my very limited knowledge this is the gist of what Buddha preached.

 

[kiamzattu]

Sangom,
I think the fate and free will simile you mentioned was explained by Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. I faintly remember him saying that 'As one proceeds up the spiritual ladder, the length of the rope tied to the pole increases'. Not the exact quote, but something like that. I have the gist of his message saved in my mobile !

 

[tbs]

hi,
i know how much we are as hypocrates...just an example....when i was a teacher the famous P. S. High school in Mylapore in early

eighties...the school was owned and operated by our own TAMBRAMs...mainly faculty/staff are buch of tamil brahmins....i know

bunch of hypocrates in that educated society....any institution rub by TAMBRAMS....full of hypocrates available...i dont know much

abt other communities....many neibhorhoods are buch of hypocratical communities .....in and around mylapore/mambalam/triplicane....

regards
tbs

 

[Yamaka]

Sri B.Krishnamurthy,

A set of people would consider this as misfortune FATE of the newly wed couples. It was their destiny and the couples had to face trauma.

A another set of people would consider this as just a random happening. A incident just happened and the new groom was a victim. If he would have not been a victim, than any other X,Y,Z would be. Nothing to do with their FATE.

This incident and the reasonings are just one of the many many life situations of each individual.

The happening of the above incident was beyond one's control. But there are many life time situations/circumstances of each individual in their personal life, that ironically would leave them no where among fellow humans.

Dear Ravi & Sangom Sir:

1. I believe in the Chaos Theory and the Principles of Randomness and to some extent the so-called Murphy's Law.

Perhaps, this is embedded in the "Inexorable Cosmic Laws" of Sangom Sir, I don't know.

2. Hence, my position is I need not believe in any Gods as prescribed by the Holy Books of Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or Torah and the extended Puranas, rituals and prayers...

Just do your chosen profession as hard as possible, and enjoy the rewards you get in life..

3. I tell myself and my kids, "Just define the given issue or problem that confronts you, and write down... then explore the solution options in the order of their possible probability of solving the issue to the best of your knowledge... take the best option and proceed in good faith. Whatever the result you get, just accept it and move on... no more second-guessing and "what-ifs"... Foresight is very hard to come by while hind-sight is very perfect..... enjoy the short life you have in this planet..."

Therefore, I never prayed any God for anything in the past 40 years! I am just very happy about it.

Cheers.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I will be grateful and thankful if knowledgeable seniors like Shri.Nara,Shri.Kunjuppu,Shri.Sangom,Shri.Suryakaspa,Thiru.Yamaka and many many others(the list can go on) share their practical wisdom and experience in life which may benefit the younger generation to take the tips and come up in their life.They can analyse and discuss the life of great men/women who could reach the top and how they could achieve it.
There may be instances of their known friends who would have achieved success in life.We can also continue to have controversial threads
where discussions can take place in a cordial atmosphere with little heat here and there.

Ps:-I accept my inability to convince Thiru.Yamaka about the concept of GOD.I am happy,however, to note he accepts NATURE as more powerful than individuals.
Thiru.Yamaha Avargale! I admire and like your openness and frankness.

 

[kunjuppu]

BK,

please take me out of that honours list. i am neither wise nor knowledgeable. i have been told here in the forum of 'corrupting' the youth and many a times i should keep my opinions to myself (which i find hard to do ).

your open ended query can be interpreted in many ways. maybe for starters, you can give an example from your own life. then the 'wise men' can pick on this.

thank you

 

[Yamaka]

I will be grateful and thankful if knowledgeable seniors like Shri.Nara,Shri.Kunjuppu,Shri.Sangom,Shri.Suryakaspa,Thiru.Yamaka and many many others(the list can go on) share their practical wisdom and experience in life which may benefit the younger generation to take the tips and come up in their life.They can analyse and discuss the life of great men/women who could reach the top and how they could achieve it.
There may be instances of their known friends who would have achieved success in life.We can also continue to have controversial threads
where discussions can take place in a cordial atmosphere with little heat here and there.

Ps:-I accept my inability to convince Thiru.Yamaka about the concept of GOD.I am happy,however, to note he accepts NATURE as more powerful than individuals.
Thiru.Yamaha Avargale! I admire and like your openness and frankness.

Many Brahmin Teachers Helped Me Along the Way: My Experiments with Life


1. Period 1967-68 Place: Madura College, Madurai.. This was a "good Brahmin College".

I applied for a seat in the Pre-University class.. the procedure was every student must meet with the Principal for a short time to review the Application and get his nod or rejection.

I stood in the line.. I didn't know anyone in Madurai and at the College. No one to recommend me to the Principal.. as a kid from a rural village in Ramnad my attire looked "strange" to most of the local kids in the line. The Principal was in his traditional Brahmin attire, and was very angry at many kids seeing him ahead of me.. he was rejecting many kids who went with a band of family members with recommendation letters.

My turn came.. the angry Principal looked at the Application and asked, "Where did you write your SSLC Exam?" I said "I have to travel 12 miles to Ramnad city to Raja's High School to take the Exam... and it was very inconvenient and difficult for a week to live there without any family support locally"

He immediately smiled and said, "Son, don't tell me about the difficulty, I know it...with all that trouble you have done very well... I wish our Urban Elite Kids do this well... you are admitted with hostel facility immediately"

Many in the line were astonished that the Principal talked to the rural NB kid with a smile! "What's going on here?" they yelled.

2. After about 2 months in the Pre-University class, the First Test came and I wrote them all well.

In the Physics Class the following week, the teacher gave the Test papers to all the students calling their names and the marks obtained... my turn.. I was anxiously waiting.

Prof asked, "Who is Y?" I stood up. "Where did you go to High School?" I said in a rural town in Ramnad district. He enquired about my parents. I said, "They could not go beyond ESLC because there was no high school at that time".

"Astounding, you are the first one in the college from your family, and you got the perfect marks in Physics test" He clapped and asked the whole class to clap for me.

"You have a very bright future waiting, Son...Keep it up"

The same thing happened in the Chemistry and Tamil class!

I am deeply indebted to Principal and the college teachers who encouraged me to do well in college... and I became a hero in the Class!

2. Period: 1971 Madurai University Biology Dept.

For reasons that I could not understand I did not get admitted to Medical College either after Pre-University or after my B.Sc. Chemistry from Madurai College... I guess medical seats were "sold to highest bidder" in those days! I did not have any money to bribe any body!!

I applied to the University Dept, at the University for a Biology M.Sc which was a brand new program offered by a group of well educated and "foreign trained" scientists.

The admission criteria was not only the performance in B.Sc. but also in the personal interview for about 1 hr. I did not have any connection to get any recommendation letter from any body... my professors at Madura College did not want me to apply to the brand new program in M.Sc. because there is no job available for a Biology major!

I entered the interview room.. around a large oval shaped table, all the the scientists were seated.... they asked me about my high school experience and at the college.

Then, they started grilling me about various principles and concepts in Botany, Physics and Chemistry... they asked me to solve problems at the blackboard.... it was very very challenging... I withstood the test and started talking in my broken English about my dreams for the future etc..some how I was not nervous at all..

After the interview, the Head of the Dept asked me to wait till all the interviews are over... and around 5 pm he came out of the room.

"Do you know why they have classified you as backward class?" He asked.

"I don't know"

"You are the best scorer in the whole selection process and the Faculty is very impressed with your interview performance, and even you excelled all the "forward community" candidates..... welcome to the M.Sc class, you will receive the final letters of admission shortly..... you have a very bright future waiting for you"

He was a TB trained in Southampton, England for about 15 years....he was one of my recommendations to come to the US for a post-doctoral position after about 7 years with him!

Dear Krish Sir:

I understand your POV... I don't have problems with people who work hard to climb up in their profession AND being religious (this could be the middle group of "weekend/wannabe Brahmins in the other Thread started by Mr. Raju)..

Your life story is also very inspiring to lots of younger people, believe me.

Yes, many times I come across as very preachy and perhaps arrogant... I must learn to be more polite.. I am trying!

Cheers.

Regards

Y

ps. Yes, I believe Nature is the real Supreme Power or Force, IMO... we all must obey the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, astronomy etc. etc... If some people call God is Nature, I am 100% with them... then why all the prayers, rituals and poojas?

For, Nature never listens to the cries of human beings, IMO. Prayers, perhaps, as K said, is for one's psychological well-being only... nothing more!

 

[Brahin]

Dear VR Ji,

Check out this video..i am putting it in this thread since right now this thread is most happening and this video is worth a watch..real funny also.

[h=1]the punjabi Royal Wedding[/h]
YouTube - ‪the punjabi Royal Wedding‬‏

Hilarious

 

[sangom]

Dear Ravi & Sangom Sir:

1. I believe in the Chaos Theory and the Principles of Randomness and to some extent the so-called Murphy's Law.

Perhaps, this is embedded in the "Inexorable Cosmic Laws" of Sangom Sir, I don't know.

2. Hence, my position is I need not believe in any Gods as prescribed by the Holy Books of Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or Torah and the extended Puranas, rituals and prayers...

Just do your chosen profession as hard as possible, and enjoy the rewards you get in life..

3. I tell myself and my kids, "Just define the given issue or problem that confronts you, and write down... then explore the solution options in the order of their possible probability of solving the issue to the best of your knowledge... take the best option and proceed in good faith. Whatever the result you get, just accept it and move on... no more second-guessing and "what-ifs"... Foresight is very hard to come by while hind-sight is very perfect..... enjoy the short life you have in this planet..."

Therefore, I never prayed any God for anything in the past 40 years! I am just very happy about it.

Cheers.

Dear Shri Yamaka,

It is really creditable that for 40 years you never prayed to any God for anything and are still happy because you have lost nothing, according to your assessment. But for the vast majority of human beings such is not the case; they are faced with very trying situations which seem beyond their control and still they desire that the matter ends in a manner favourable to them (the way they desire it to evolve). These are the occasions when ordinary folks and even agnostics like me tend to pray or request that Supreme God or the power which may be implementing the Inexorable Cosmic Laws, to intercede, show mercy and save the situation.

Right now I have one example. My servant maid (a Nair woman of very little formal education but IMO great intelligence and maturity) has a grandson - child of 4 or 5 years. This child has a serious heart problem - there is some hole in the heart bifurcating wall which results in mixing of impure and pure blood. A surgery was performed when the child had just completed a year and before the surgery the medics had assured that the child would become quite normal after that one surgery. But after it was done, the doctors told that another operation might become necessary if symptoms - like swooning, body turning blue - reappear as the boy grows up. And actually this has happened. The old hospital people now say that it is highly risky to perform another surgery, the cost is very high (about Rs. 3 lakhs in all) and success % very low. Now she has taken the child to the Amritanandamayi Hospital in Cochin where they are ready to perform the surgery but the cost is about 2 lakhs. She has just managed to get this amount from Chief Minister's charity fund through some well-wishers, and is collecting money for the incidentals which are likely to be around 1 lakh.

Just two or three days back another woman who had a baby with a similar complaint and lost it in surgery has explained to her how useless it is to spend such money and advised her strongly to keep quiet and enjoy the grandchild as long as God wills ! I need not explain the mental agony this poor woman is undergoing and the only things I could do was to give her my maximum financial help and then pray that the child becomes normal and healthy after the surgery.

Such instances are not rare and humans tend to look for supernatural succour in such times, irrespective of whether that GOD is Vishnu, Krishna, Jesus or Allah.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sangom,

The child must be having Tetralogy of Fallot.Its serious but can be rectified with surgery with very good outcome and prognosis.

All surgeries for Tetralogy of Fallot come with risks and death will only register as a low percentage in the hospital records(say some 1 in 500 surgeries) but to a mother who has lost her child its 100% for her.

That's the chances we take with life.. no one really knows tommorow.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom,

The child must be having Tetralogy of Fallot.Its serious but can be rectified with surgery with very good outcome and prognosis.

All surgeries for Tetralogy of Fallot come with risks and death will only register as a low percentage in the hospital records(say some 1 in 500 surgeries) but to a mother who has lost her child its 100% for her.

That's the chances we take with life.. no one really knows tommorow.

Dear Smt. Renuka,

Thank you for your guidance. BTW, these people are poor (though this maid was born to a somewhat well-to-do family and was sent to a very good Mission school, in which my elder sister also studied much earlier, and her relatives are rich. Her life itself is a mini-Bhaaratam and I consider and often tell my wife that she is my guru or role-model for certain aspects and practices (which I try to emulate, but may not be successfully) in my life.

Her daughter, the mother of this child, and her husband have an elder daughter, completely healthy and bright. May be their Karma, they went for a second child and this is the result!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

It is really creditable that for 40 years you never prayed to any God for anything and are still happy because you have lost nothing, according to your assessment. But for the vast majority of human beings such is not the case; they are faced with very trying situations which seem beyond their control and still they desire that the matter ends in a manner favourable to them (the way they desire it to evolve). These are the occasions when ordinary folks and even agnostics like me tend to pray or request that Supreme God or the power which may be implementing the Inexorable Cosmic Laws, to intercede, show mercy and save the situation.

Right now I have one example. My servant maid (a Nair woman of very little formal education but IMO great intelligence and maturity) has a grandson - child of 4 or 5 years. This child has a serious heart problem - there is some hole in the heart bifurcating wall which results in mixing of impure and pure blood. A surgery was performed when the child had just completed a year and before the surgery the medics had assured that the child would become quite normal after that one surgery. But after it was done, the doctors told that another operation might become necessary if symptoms - like swooning, body turning blue - reappear as the boy grows up. And actually this has happened. The old hospital people now say that it is highly risky to perform another surgery, the cost is very high (about Rs. 3 lakhs in all) and success % very low. Now she has taken the child to the Amritanandamayi Hospital in Cochin where they are ready to perform the surgery but the cost is about 2 lakhs. She has just managed to get this amount from Chief Minister's charity fund through some well-wishers, and is collecting money for the incidentals which are likely to be around 1 lakh.

Just two or three days back another woman who had a baby with a similar complaint and lost it in surgery has explained to her how useless it is to spend such money and advised her strongly to keep quiet and enjoy the grandchild as long as God wills ! I need not explain the mental agony this poor woman is undergoing and the only things I could do was to give her my maximum financial help and then pray that the child becomes normal and healthy after the surgery.

Such instances are not rare and humans tend to look for supernatural succour in such times, irrespective of whether that GOD is Vishnu, Krishna, Jesus or Allah.

Dear Sangom Sir:

I fully understand your POV here.

Some such terrible things were about to happen to me also -

1. My dearest daughter had what's called "diaper rash" when she was a baby. I took her to the doctor and he gave Amoxycillin, a close cousin of penicillin to cure the rashes.

We gave the first dose, and after about 45 min, I noticed patches of red circles occurring on her arms and stomach.

Immediately it occurred to me that she is allergic to Amoxycillin.. I rushed her to the nearby ER at 1 am panicking.

"Good", the ER doctor said "You brought her immediately; had you waited till the morning, probably she would have been dead of respiratory failure due to systemic allergy to medication".

I was profusely sweating, and my wife was crying!

2. My new born son came home from the hospital.. after a day or two, he had high fever.. as though he contracted some bad illness at the hospital or at home.

I called the pediatrician immediately.. he ordered that the new born baby must be immediately admitted to ICU at the Children's Hospital.

It turned out he had meningitis, perhaps viral or bacterial contracted at the birth place!

After some quick test, it was concluded that it's just viral and could be cured relatively easily.. not the deadly bacterial kind.

We just escaped the bullet to our head, I muttered under my breath.

My personal view is good and bad things happen to all the people randomly.. No God of Abraham or Vedas & Puranas or Torah could avert it....

For very many very religious people and Godmen are also subjected to the Wrath of Nature, Accidents and unforeseen events.

Nobody fully grasp the origin of forces of Randomness, Accidents and the like..Tragedies happen all the time all around us.

I am happy to know that the babies you refer to could get the help from Charities...

Cheers.

Regards

Y

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir:

I fully understand your POV here.

Some such terrible things were about to happen to me also -

1. My dearest daughter had what's called "diaper rash" when she was a baby. I took her to the doctor and he gave Amoxycillin, a close cousin of penicillin to cure the rashes.

We gave the first dose, and after about 45 min, I noticed patches of red circles occurring on her arms and stomach.

Immediately it occurred to me that she is allergic to Amoxycillin.. I rushed her to the nearby ER at 1 am panicking.

"Good", the ER doctor said "You brought her immediately; had you waited till the morning, probably she would have been dead of respiratory failure due to systemic allergy to medication".

I was profusely sweating, and my wife was crying!

2. My new born son came home from the hospital.. after a day or two, he had high fever.. as though he contracted some bad illness at the hospital or at home.

I called the pediatrician immediately.. he ordered that the new born baby must be immediately admitted to ICU at the Children's Hospital.

It turned out he had meningitis, perhaps viral or bacterial contracted at the birth place!

After some quick test, it was concluded that it's just viral and could be cured relatively easily.. not the deadly bacterial kind.

We just escaped the bullet to our head, I muttered under my breath.

My personal view is good and bad things happen to all the people randomly.. No God of Abraham or Vedas & Puranas or Torah could avert it....

For very many very religious people and Godmen are also subjected to the Wrath of Nature, Accidents and unforeseen events.

Nobody fully grasp the origin of forces of Randomness, Accidents and the like..Tragedies happen all the time all around us.

I am happy to know that the babies you refer to could get the help from Charities...

Cheers.

Regards

Y

Dear Shri Y,

I very much admire your philosophy and the presence of mind you have. I am in 101% agreement with your statement "My personal view is good and bad things happen to all the people randomly.. No God of Abraham or Vedas & Puranas or Torah could avert it....". But the majority do believe that their God is capable of averting such disasters from falling on them. It looks that the rigvedic belief system was this. But by the time we came to vedanta, the god who helps those who help themselves, had been transformed into the Supreme being and the only reality, cause and creator as well as the raw material for the universe. So, naturally, god also became the originator of such calamities ! In a way Man had degraded God, it looks to me

 

[tbs]

hi yamaka sir,
naturalist is nothing wrong in hinduism....we beleive in carvaakaas....means non believer in vedas/god .....according sankhya

philosophers.. beleive in prakruthi.....means in naturalistic....some are logical/rational thinkers...so we accomodate as

nyaya/vaisheshikas ......some are poorva mimamsakas.....some are vedatatins.....all are equal in hinduism....some are not doing/pujas

or sandhyavandanams....still they call themselves brahmins.....until we embrace christianity/islam....we are hindus..its okay.....

the gov of lusiana/south carollina are considered as americans and christians...but in reality they are hindus/ indian americans.....

even they themselves identify as punjabis......


regards
tbs

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Shri.tbs,
Shri.Subramanian a member(No.254 on 12/09/2009) while introducing himself has made an interesting observation.
"Americans slowly turning towards HINDUISM'
His remarks can be seen on page 26 of the thread"Introduce Yourself"

 

[biswa]

the gov of lusiana/south carollina are considered as americans and christians...but in reality they are hindus/ indian americans.....

even they themselves identify as punjabis......

Sorry, in just this point I have to disagree. Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley have deliberately turned their backs to their Indian roots, to make a living in American politics, that too in the deep south. Aside from the factual issues: Bobby Jindal voluntarily converted to Christianity and Nikki Haley was born in the US to Sikh parents (Nikki Haley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Other than in CA state, everywhere there is heavy pressure on Indians to assimilate, and these folks succumbed to it. Nothing wrong in that, but let us not look at them to validate the glory of India. Instead let us be proud that we are one of the few nations which had both the President and the PM holding a Ph.D. each to their credit. In that perhaps only China comes close.

 

[Nara]

....Other than in CA state, everywhere there is heavy pressure on Indians to assimilate, and these folks succumbed to it. .

biswa, you are mixing up American politics and ordinary life in the U.S. I live in one of the southern states of the U.S. and I have not experienced any pressure to assimilate, whatever you mean by that. Of course, I can't get elected to dogcatcher even if I wanted to.

The group that really feels the pressure these days is American Muslims, they are presumed guilty and the onus is on them to prove otherwise.

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

Originally Posted by Yamaka
Dear Ravi & Sangom Sir:

1. I believe in the Chaos Theory and the Principles of Randomness and to some extent the so-called Murphy's Law.

Perhaps, this is embedded in the "Inexorable Cosmic Laws" of Sangom Sir, I don't know.

2. Hence, my position is I need not believe in any Gods as prescribed by the Holy Books of Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or Torah and the extended Puranas, rituals and prayers...

Just do your chosen profession as hard as possible, and enjoy the rewards you get in life..

3. I tell myself and my kids, "Just define the given issue or problem that confronts you, and write down... then explore the solution options in the order of their possible probability of solving the issue to the best of your knowledge... take the best option and proceed in good faith. Whatever the result you get, just accept it and move on... no more second-guessing and "what-ifs"... Foresight is very hard to come by while hind-sight is very perfect..... enjoy the short life you have in this planet..."

Therefore, I never prayed any God for anything in the past 40 years! I am just very happy about it.

Dear Yamaka,

Even Chaos have "strange attractors". Without them you can not explain fully the 'order' found in chaos!! Randomness has been proved to be not so random if you look at it at a sufficiently large format. Like Mr. Sangom you can only say that you are not yet ready to accept a God. That would only mean you are not sure about it(you may give any name-naturalist or what you will).