How should we overcome our desires?

[Raghy]

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Sowbagyavathy Renuka,

It is quite disheartening to note someone was sending you weird PMs. Hope that has stopped now.

When you can overcome all the six undesired qualities, don't you think others can do that too?

Kama:Kama with wife is fine BUT NOT excessive!

What is excessive? Who is to decide that? That is only subjective.

Over indulgence in Kama can weaken our body and immune system cos we are not getting sufficient rest and sleep by gunning it all night long.

Over indulgence makes us fantasize about the next encounter and this to a certain extent takes our mind away from our Nithya Karma.

No it won't! Sexual activities burn off excess fat and release lot of endorphines. Only good side effects. It doesn't adversely affect our immune system at all. Come on! One doesn't have to have over indulgence to fantasize about next encounter; even those persons who only date Mrs.Palmer and her 5 daughters on regular basis would have fantasy about their next 'encounter'!

What nithya Karma? Some persons have none! There are days I could just take it easy from morning till evening except for walking, exercise etc. I am not planning to do anything great; I am just a simpleton who just likes to enjoy life.

Renuka, we are not talking about Pooja here. We are only talkking about desire control. Again, what is excessive Moha? I love JD once a week on my break. There are other nights too where I do have breaks; but I don't indulge. It will be just once and that would be it. In the pantryi have stock kept, but wouldn't even bother to look at them on the JD free days or nights. Without Moha thee is no life.

I know what I am talking about. All the persons advocating here are fulfiling their desires in one way or the other, but advocate control of desire with a straight face! I feel like laughing!

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka,



When you can overcome all the six undesired qualities, don't you think others can do that too?

Dear Raghy,

I haven't overcome all 6 undesired qualities!LOL

Anger I still have but very very less..you see instead of getting angry I was showing gestures to the lap top!Ha Ha Ha.

Kama I still have within acceptable limits in marriage.But I can still think of God even while gunning it! Believe me its true..sometimes some Bhajans just keep playing in my mind non stop and does NOT shut down no matter what I am doing.!LOL

Moha as in attachement I still have LOTS!! and I mean LOTS!!
I am attached and addicted to Sanskrit!

I can sit and study non stop..even in the flight I studied 4 hours non stop.

Right after my exam was over I started studying right away for the next exam in February 2013.

So you see its still a strong desire.

When I went to Puttaparthi I bought lots of Sanskrit books and also bought up all 4 copies of Rigveda,Yajurveda, Samaveda and Atharveda Samhita.

So my dear..I do have my desires too.

I am just like anyone else but mellowed down over the years thats all.

 

[renuka]

What is excessive? Who is to decide that? That is only subjective.

Agreed..what is excessive to a one person might be normal for another person.
Once I had a patient who always comes here for some reason or the other and tries to show off that he is rich and has a high sex drive.
I wonder what is his intention.

Once he asked me "doctor is it Ok for me to have sex daily with my wife..people tell me that I am too strong for my age"

I thought Ok time to break his ego " I said Oh just once a day..that's very less most people I know have it 3 times a day!"

After that he never spoke about his sex drive!LOL

No it won't! Sexual activities burn off excess fat and release lot of endorphines. Only good side effects. It doesn't adversely affect our immune system at all.

Tell me frankly...no one has ever lost weight just by sexual activity.
The heart rate does not even venture into fat burning zone leave alone aerobic zone and surely not anaerobic too! Please!
If it is true you should be having a 6 packed abdomen by now! LOL

What nithya Karma? Some persons have none! There are days I could just take it easy from morning till evening except for walking, exercise etc. I am not planning to do anything great; I am just a simpleton who just likes to enjoy life.

Nithya Karma is the simple day to day activities as a Hindu that we need to keep in touch with spirituality.
Nothing really heavy duty.

Renuka, we are not talking about Pooja here. We are only talkking about desire control. Again, what is excessive Moha? I love JD once a week on my break. There are other nights too where I do have breaks; but I don't indulge. It will be just once and that would be it. In the pantryi have stock kept, but wouldn't even bother to look at them on the JD free days or nights. Without Moha thee is no life.

Ok direct to the point Question!

Do you think you can make do without JD?

I know what I am talking about. All the persons advocating here are fulfiling their desires in one way or the other, but advocate control of desire with a straight face! I feel like laughing!

Agreed.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

Hi all,

HH Swami Dayanada Saraswati deal on this subject thoroughly. the idea is keeping the desire under ones control rather than controlled by kama krodha .

as far total annihilation of desire only parameshvara is capable of doing that. may be one can do tapas to him and wish for this boon.

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy renuka, Greetings.

Tell me frankly...no one has ever lost weight just by sexual activity.
The heart rate does not even venture into fat burning zone leave alone aerobic zone and surely not anaerobic too! Please!
If it is true you should be having a 6 packed abdomen by now! LOL

6 pack is not the only way of indication to healthy and fitness. Six pack is acheived by exercises to tighten the muscles. I am talking about burning fat. Just by burning fat I can't get 6 pack. But, I can shed kilos by burning fat.

I am not talking about 'wham! bang! thank you!' kind of activities. I am talking about real fat burning activities. Come on, woman! you know the benefits of love making. You don't have to pretend as if you don't know them. Here are some ( for the benefit of others members.. I know you know these information already!).

A healthy sex life: 10 reasons to make love - iVillage

10 Surprising Health Benefits of Making Love / Sex

Now, what is sexist thing a man can do? It's not just love making only. It goes way beyond that. ( Check the attached thumb to see what is 'sexy'). For every desire similar rules apply too. We can take everything quite far and deep.

Ok direct to the point Question!

Do you think you can make do without JD?

What is the point of this question? I already said I have a control over JD 6 nights every week. That is sense control. In fact, quite a good control. Now you are coming along to ask me if I can do without JD altogether. That is 'over indulgence' of sense control.

Having said that, everything in our life has a price. We do things for our dear and near. Often times we bend backwards to keep a dear or near happy. My wife has changed herself in somany areas to suit my wishes and so had I. If it is that important for my dear or near, I will seriously consider bading goodby to JD. But such occassion has not happened yet. ( I don't have any rigid policies. I always bend or break my policies for my dear and near and for my friends. At the end of the day, people are more important than all the policies, principles and desires put together).

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Sowbagyavathy renuka, Greetings.



6 pack is not the only way of indication to healthy and fitness. Six pack is acheived by exercises to tighten the muscles. I am talking about burning fat. Just by burning fat I can't get 6 pack. But, I can shed kilos by burning fat.

I am not talking about 'wham! bang! thank you!' kind of activities. I am talking about real fat burning activities. Come on, woman! you know the benefits of love making. You don't have to pretend as if you don't know them. Here are some ( for the benefit of others members.. I know you know these information already!).

A healthy sex life: 10 reasons to make love - iVillage

10 Surprising Health Benefits of Making Love / Sex

Now, what is sexist thing a man can do? It's not just love making only. It goes way beyond that. ( Check the attached thumb to see what is 'sexy'). For every desire similar rules apply too. We can take everything quite far and deep.



What is the point of this question? I already said I have a control over JD 6 nights every week. That is sense control. In fact, quite a good control. Now you are coming along to ask me if I can do without JD altogether. That is 'over indulgence' of sense control.

Having said that, everything in our life has a price. We do things for our dear and near. Often times we bend backwards to keep a dear or near happy. My wife has changed herself in somany areas to suit my wishes and so had I. If it is that important for my dear or near, I will seriously consider bading goodby to JD. But such occassion has not happened yet. ( I don't have any rigid policies. I always bend or break my policies for my dear and near and for my friends. At the end of the day, people are more important than all the policies, principles and desires put together).

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

You see everything in this world has a starting point and endpoint.
Every book has a first chapter and a last chapter.

So no matter what we still have to go back to chapter 1 one fine day!

So no matter how great any activity is..it is still repetitive.

Life is not meant to be a vicious cycle that repeats itself non stop with no way out..a child feels his toy brings him untold joy, a teen feels falling in love brings him joy, an adult feels marriage/sex etc brings him joy but you see
someday our mind will search for higher forms of joy..that day we can look back and just look at sex as child's play!

So if you ask me sex is not big deal! Its just some action and reaction and the pubococcygeus muslce giving transient seventh heaven feeling! LOL

Sex is not essential for life in the sense one will NOT die without it.
Yet to see a man who died becos he was sex deprived.

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

Sexual activity was only an example for desires. My messages were not about that desire alone. I am talking in general about all desires. Although you quoted my message in post #130, you have not addressed that message in full.

You see everything in this world has a starting point and endpoint.
Every book has a first chapter and a last chapter.

So no matter what we still have to go back to chapter 1 one fine day!

So no matter how great any activity is..it is still repetitive.

You clutching the straw here. I am only talking about the desires of individuals, individual human beings. What is tyhe life expectancy? About 80 to 100 years? That's all I am talking about. Why should I care about "everything in this in this world should have a starting point and end point"? That is not connected to my discussion at all. My discussion is only restricted to the desires experienced by the human beings in his/her life time.

Life is not meant to be a vicious cycle that repeats itself non stop with no way out..a child feels his toy brings him untold joy, a teen feels falling in love brings him joy, an adult feels marriage/sex etc brings him joy but you see
someday our mind will search for higher forms of joy..

Joy or pleasure is just pleasure. What do you mean "higher form of pleasure"? Is there any such pleasure? Personally I don't think so. In what way ectasy felt from Bhajan is different from ectasy felt between the thighs of a woman? They are exactly the same. We indulge in both the activities only to enjoy the feeling of ectasy while the methods are different.

Personally for me dancing with joy for a bhajan and dancing with joy for "en peru meena kumari; en ooru Kanyakumari" song are exactly the same. Both dances are performed with joy, to have pleasure. So, how do you define one pleasure "higher" and one pleasure "lower"? How come you don't see both the activities as activities of pleasure?

Even in the case of mere human being, if he/she is a njani, he/she would see a leraned person, a sanyasi, a samsari, a pulayan and his dog every thing with in the same level, with respectfully. Even when a mere mortal can be that advanced in his/her thoughts, would you really consider "paramatma" to consider one pleasure as "higher" pleasure and one pleasure as "lower" pleasure? That is for you to think.

that day we can look back and just look at sex as child's play!

Even today I think like that anyway! I am not too concerned about my actions. I could be chanting "rudram" or I could be surfing porn site.. what is the difference? Either of those actions would be performed only if I like to do it. Otherwise I am not going to do it. At the end of the day, everything falls under "desire" for me.

Sex is not essential for life in the sense one will NOT die without it.

Really? Are you going to say people are dieing like flies when they are deprived of one of those "higher pleasures" ?

Yet to see a man who died becos he was sex deprived.

Haven't you? I have seen plenty cases of suicide due to 'love failure'; suicide due to 'lack of attention' from one of the partners; suicide due to partner involved in adulterous activities etc. May be you have never noticed such news before. I am sure you may notice such news in the future.

But, I have not heard about anyone die due to failure in spiritual advancement. Kindly show me if you know of anyone died that way.

Cheers!

 

[prasad1]

Sex is not essential for life in the sense one will NOT die without it.

Without sex no one will die, but the entire race may die. LOL

 

[renuka]

Joy or pleasure is just pleasure. What do you mean "higher form of pleasure"? Is there any such pleasure? Personally I don't think so. In what way ectasy felt from Bhajan is different from ectasy felt between the thighs of a woman? They are exactly the same. We indulge in both the activities only to enjoy the feeling of ectasy while the methods are different.

Dear Raghy,

Sorry for late reply..31st August is Malaysian independence day and I was not working and was busy cleaning the house.

When I wrote "higher forms of pleasure" I meant eternal bliss..the ultimate form of Bliss as in Sat Cit Ananda.

Yes ..most of us do not know what is Sat Cit Ananda yet to even comment about it but you see in this world..nothing actually gives us permanent bliss.

The Bliss one seek in the region of the thighs only remain as long as the gun functions and as long the thighs abduct.
That too how much pleasure can one derive from a single act of sexual intercourse?

If some act provides ultimate pleasure it should be at one go you are supplied pleasure/bliss for your entire existence.
Sex is an act that is repetitive..one does it over and over again cos the pleasure derived from it is transient.

I haven' t felt Sat Cit Ananda..but I am pretty sure Sat Cit Ananda is not comparable to an orgasm as Sat Cit Ananda is Eternal and everlasting.

We humans can go around with a Priapism of desires and expectations but as we know Priapism only brings about pain and NOT pleasure.

Personally for me dancing with joy for a bhajan and dancing with joy for "en peru meena kumari; en ooru Kanyakumari" song are exactly the same. Both dances are performed with joy, to have pleasure. So, how do you define one pleasure "higher" and one pleasure "lower"? How come you don't see both the activities as activities of pleasure?

Technically both acts bring pleasure..but as I said the former brings about sensual gratification and the latter brings about divine inspiration.

Even today I think like that anyway! I am not too concerned about my actions. I could be chanting "rudram" or I could be surfing porn site.. what is the difference? Either of those actions would be performed only if I like to do it. Otherwise I am not going to do it. At the end of the day, everything falls under "desire" for me.

Same reply:
Technically both acts bring pleasure..but as I said the one brings about sensual gratification and the other brings about divine inspiration.

Really? Are you going to say people are dieing like flies when they are deprived of one of those "higher pleasures" ?

Yes..people will Die and be Born again only to Die again and be Born again when deprived from Higher Pleasures.


Punarapi jananam punarapi maranam,
Punarapi janani jatare sayanam,
Iha samsaare khalu dusthare,
Krupayaa pare pahi murare.

Again and again one is born,
And again and again one dies,
And again and again one sleeps in the mother’s womb,
Help me to cross,
This limitless sea of Life,
Which is uncrossable, my Lord

Haven't you? I have seen plenty cases of suicide due to 'love failure'; suicide due to 'lack of attention' from one of the partners; suicide due to partner involved in adulterous activities etc. May be you have never noticed such news before. I am sure you may notice such news in the future.

Dear Raghy,

That is a case of depression.
I am talking about essential basic needs for man...food and water.
Our body as you know is made up of 5 Koshas.
The 1st being Annamaya Kosha(The Food Sheath)..without nourishment nothing else will work.

But, I have not heard about anyone die due to failure in spiritual advancement. Kindly show me if you know of anyone died that way.

Yes I have heard.
All of us have died and were born again becos of spiritual failure.
Only he who has attained spiritual perfection dies not.

Punarapi jananam punarapi maranam,
Punarapi janani jatare sayanam,
Iha samsaare khalu dusthare,
Krupayaa pare pahi murare.

Again and again one is born,
And again and again one dies,
And again and again one sleeps in the mother’s womb,
Help me to cross,
This limitless sea of Life,
Which is uncrossable, my Lord

 

[Raghy]

Dear Renuka, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #134. I have not not gone throgh that message in depth yet. I notice you added few verses from 'Bhaja Govindam'. That is Sri. Sankara's opinion. There is no concrete evidence for that.

But anyway, I am enjoying my little slot of time I have now ( I have to rest and get ready to work, soon).

You haven't realised Sat Chit Ananda yet? Of course, I am not advocating I seek Sat Chit Ananda between the thighs of a woman. Kindly don't twist my words. That is not the right way to conduct a discussion. All I compasred was pleasure getting from taking part in a bhjan and pleasure getting between the thighs of a woman. They are comparable. You just took upon yourself to jump straight to Sat Chit Anandam! Are you going to say you get pleasure like Sat Chit Anandam from taking part in a Bhajan? I already said Sexual pleasure was just an example for a desire. I know exactly what I am talking about.

Again I notice you are trying to avoid some of my messages. You can't dare touch Baghavat Gita quote in my message, can you? You side stepped that. You did the same thing with my previous message too. I am beginning to believe, you are going to side step important points expressed by me just to establish your vision.

Okay. Let me show you Sat Chit Anandam.... That was what I was enjoying ( before I was disturbed by a phone call). I am going to post two songs. See if you can enjoy both the songs at an equal level. I do. I get heart felt pleasure when listening to both songs.

Aathma vidyalayame - Harischandra ( 1955 ) - YouTube

Shana Vanguarde Gimme Gimme Gimme - YouTube

( In future kindly address all of my message, please. Otherwise I would loose initiative to discuss. If you have not realised yet, my mind make up is slightly different. If you think I enjoy my desires just for my pleasure, even that is not true. Let me give you a hint .. "wham, bham, thank you!.. right?" I just do mostly "wham". That's it. No "bham". I receive "thank you". I just control my 'bham', pack up, curl away. Wel, most of my actions are for someone else. I buy nothing for myself. Only once a week I cook one meal of my choice; otherwise, cook only the choice of others. Well, to make a long story short, I seem to cut out quite differently. People do mention about that).

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #134. I have not not gone throgh that message in depth yet. I notice you added few verses from 'Bhaja Govindam'. That is Sri. Sankara's opinion. There is no concrete evidence for that.

But anyway, I am enjoying my little slot of time I have now ( I have to rest and get ready to work, soon).

You haven't realised Sat Chit Ananda yet? Of course, I am not advocating I seek Sat Chit Ananda between the thighs of a woman. Kindly don't twist my words. That is not the right way to conduct a discussion. All I compasred was pleasure getting from taking part in a bhjan and pleasure getting between the thighs of a woman. They are comparable. You just took upon yourself to jump straight to Sat Chit Anandam! Are you going to say you get pleasure like Sat Chit Anandam from taking part in a Bhajan? I already said Sexual pleasure was just an example for a desire. I know exactly what I am talking about.

Again I notice you are trying to avoid some of my messages. You can't dare touch Baghavat Gita quote in my message, can you? You side stepped that. You did the same thing with my previous message too. I am beginning to believe, you are going to side step important points expressed by me just to establish your vision.

Okay. Let me show you Sat Chit Anandam.... That was what I was enjoying ( before I was disturbed by a phone call). I am going to post two songs. See if you can enjoy both the songs at an equal level. I do. I get heart felt pleasure when listening to both songs.

Aathma vidyalayame - Harischandra ( 1955 ) - YouTube

Shana Vanguarde Gimme Gimme Gimme - YouTube

( In future kindly address all of my message, please. Otherwise I would loose initiative to discuss. If you have not realised yet, my mind make up is slightly different. If you think I enjoy my desires just for my pleasure, even that is not true. Let me give you a hint .. "wham, bham, thank you!.. right?" I just do mostly "wham". That's it. No "bham". I receive "thank you". I just control my 'bham', pack up, curl away. Wel, most of my actions are for someone else. I buy nothing for myself. Only once a week I cook one meal of my choice; otherwise, cook only the choice of others. Well, to make a long story short, I seem to cut out quite differently. People do mention about that).

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

I saw a few patients and replied your message with the best of my ability.

I am also quite a point blank person..and that post of mine was my point blank thoughts.

To me I have answered all your questions.

I have not avoided answering any questions in my reply to your post.

A teacher prepares the question papers and it's left to a student to answer the questions and the it's the duty of the teacher to evaluate it.

So I have answered your questions... and you have evaluated it.

Thank you very much

regards
renu

 

[renuka]

Dear Raghy,

I think you misunderstood my post.

You asked me

What do you mean "higher form of pleasure"

My reply was "Sat Cit Ananda"

Next you wrote this:

I am not advocating I seek Sat Chit Ananda between the thighs of a woman. Kindly don't twist my words. That is not the right way to conduct a discussion. All I compasred was pleasure getting from taking part in a bhjan and pleasure getting between the thighs of a woman. They are comparable. You just took upon yourself to jump straight to Sat Chit Anandam! Are you going to say you get pleasure like Sat Chit Anandam from taking part in a Bhajan? I already said Sexual pleasure was just an example for a desire. I know exactly what I am talking about.

Dear Raghy I am not twisting your words..I was explaining in my post that Sat Cit Ananda is eternal and everlasting.

I had already stated in my post that any act can bring pleasure but one act might bring about sense gratification and the other might bring about divine inspiration.

 

[renuka]

Dear Raghy,

If you want me to comment on your post:

Even in the case of mere human being, if he/she is a njani, he/she would see a leraned person, a sanyasi, a samsari, a pulayan and his dog every thing with in the same level, with respectfully. Even when a mere mortal can be that advanced in his/her thoughts, would you really consider "paramatma" to consider one pleasure as "higher" pleasure and one pleasure as "lower" pleasure? That is for you to think.

Yes you are right...the Pandita has Samadarshinah for anyone or any animal or any category at an Atmic level.

I thought our point of discussion was at the level of desires and pleasures and as this is a serious philosophical discussion I did not want to "twist" the Geeta Shloka to justify certain acts as the same as the other...becos the side effects of one action might differ from another.

In no point of our discussion I had mentioned that Paramatma would view pleasure through the lenses of duality.

 

[Amirtha]

True. that's why I don't want to supress my desires. What is the point of burying them out of sight? They are going to lead to next life anyway. Bring them out and burn them. That is my policy. That will give some hope for the mind to settle in peace at a later, much later stage. But by burying our desires we are only fooling ourselves.

Cheers!

Shri Raghy,
You are absolutely right about the burning our desires. When we bury our desires it is going to surface again and again until we do something about it. It doesnt really matter whether it is godly or ungodly. Say for example, if you want to attain moksha and you already entangle yourself with samsara, you are going to have guilty conscious for not doing anything to attain moksha. ( I hope I am clear). For me attaining moksha is also a desire.

Regards
Amirtha

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

Thanks for your messages in post #137 and #138. There is no need to dwell on trivial matters. So, I agree with your explanations and moving on for the better part of the discussion.

When you wrote

When I wrote "higher forms of pleasure" I meant eternal bliss..the ultimate form of Bliss as in Sat Cit Ananda.

I did not accept it because I don't consider Sat Chid Ananda as a 'form of pleasure'. In my opinion it is not 'pleasure' at all; something very different. Satchitananda is a state of mind.

Yes ..most of us do not know what is Sat Cit Ananda yet to even comment about it but you see in this world..nothing actually gives us permanent bliss.

Sat Cihid Ananda is not a type of pleasure and it is not permanent either; not for human beings anyway. I am sure you know what is Satchitananda. I am sure you believed you were at the receiving end. I am also sure you have been at the providing end too. Sachithananda........ here we go!........

Imagine a person by the name X. X is kind hearted, polite, helpful, caring and readily empathise others difficulties. X is also willing to comfort any person or any animal.

A is an everyday person. Goes through difficulties in life, goes through usual miseries, our average person who seeks support every now and again. We are just looking at A as a person; we don't really care what he/she does for a living etc.

Let us say, A requires some psychological support at one point in time and approaches X. X recieves A; X doesn't know about A's miseries, doesn't even want to know them. X looks at A compassionately. For a very brief period, may be for few seconds X's mind gets locked with A's mind; for that brief period, compassion flows from X's mind to A's mind.

What A feels during that brief period is 'shanti' or peace of mind. A gets a lot of boosting from that brief period of peace. He/she becomes charged after that.

The state of mind of X at that brief period when they were locked is 'ananda'. X does want anything from A; X is not giving anyhing in material to A; X doesn't even talk to A;

Sometimes along with peace of mind, X also feels that Ananda feeling very briefly.

X may not be able to repeat this connection to everyone. It may happen only for the persons willing to receive X's connection.

This whole process is Satchitananda. You are capable of it; everyone here may be capable of it. This can't be permanent, because there are so many external worries we have during our life which upsets the equilibrium. But we do have it; we have done it few times in our lives.

So, Satchitananda is not impossible to attain while living in our rat race life.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Shri Raghy,
You are absolutely right about the burning our desires. When we bury our desires it is going to surface again and again until we do something about it. It doesnt really matter whether it is godly or ungodly. Say for example, if you want to attain moksha and you already entangle yourself with samsara, you are going to have guilty conscious for not doing anything to attain moksha. ( I hope I am clear). For me attaining moksha is also a desire.

Regards
Amirtha

Sowbagyavathy Amirtha, Greetings.

Wishing for Moksha is a desire indeed. Nothing wrong with that desire or any other desire. Going through Samsara itself a path to Moksha. so, in my opinion, one need not have any guilty feeling for going through Samsara.

Cheers!

 

[Amirtha]

Shri Raghy

You said:

"In my opinion it is not 'pleasure' at all; something very different. Satchitananda is a state of mind.

I also have same kind of thinking about Sat chit Ananda. Yes, it is state of mind. Kind of feeling that you are in a equilibirium status. You are not happy or sad. Kind of brahmam. However, to achieve this equilibirium status one has to have experience in life. i.e samsara. Unless you (generally speaking) have great understanding of life by asking questions to yourself and try to find explanation through various methods, Sat Chit Ananda is not possible.

Regards
Amirtha

 

[Raghy]

Shri Raghy

You said:

"In my opinion it is not 'pleasure' at all; something very different. Satchitananda is a state of mind.

I also have same kind of thinking about Sat chit Ananda. Yes, it is state of mind. Kind of feeling that you are in a equilibirium status. You are not happy or sad. Kind of brahmam. However, to achieve this equilibirium status one has to have experience in life. i.e samsara. Unless you (generally speaking) have great understanding of life by asking questions to yourself and try to find explanation through various methods, Sat Chit Ananda is not possible.

Regards
Amirtha

Sowbagyavathy Amirtha, Greetings. Welcome to the forum.

Samsara itself is a great teacher. There is no better teacher than the situations we face in our own lives. If we decide, if we commit ourselves to be quitable to everyone in our life, our education starts. Most often than not, people become inflexible under the guise of 'policies', 'family/ village practices' etc. If someone is sincere, if someone likes to be honestly equitable to everyone then they go through a very good education in life. Mind you, such persons would do mistakes too; I am not saying they would be perfect.. but far from it. They would always remember their imperfect dealing with someone all the time. Only difference is, such sincere person would get out of the guilt feeling by actually apologising to the others concerned and move on with their lives. I don't believe one has to undergo 'sense control' or seek a guru or study all sorts of opinions from multi various literatures to get there. Satchitanandam is not a learned state of mind; it's an experience. One has to open their mind to receive it and feel it. I strongly believe it is for every individual to achieve.

Cheers!

 

[Amirtha]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

Thanks for your messages in post #137 and #138. There is no need to dwell on trivial matters. So, I agree with your explanations and moving on for the better part of the discussion.

When you wrote I did not accept it because I don't consider Sat Chid Ananda as a 'form of pleasure'. In my opinion it is not 'pleasure' at all; something very different. Satchitananda is a state of mind.



Sat Cihid Ananda is not a type of pleasure and it is not permanent either; not for human beings anyway. I am sure you know what is Satchitananda. I am sure you believed you were at the receiving end. I am also sure you have been at the providing end too. Sachithananda........ here we go!........

Imagine a person by the name X. X is kind hearted, polite, helpful, caring and readily empathise others difficulties. X is also willing to comfort any person or any animal.

A is an everyday person. Goes through difficulties in life, goes through usual miseries, our average person who seeks support every now and again. We are just looking at A as a person; we don't really care what he/she does for a living etc.

Let us say, A requires some psychological support at one point in time and approaches X. X recieves A; X doesn't know about A's miseries, doesn't even want to know them. X looks at A compassionately. For a very brief period, may be for few seconds X's mind gets locked with A's mind; for that brief period, compassion flows from X's mind to A's mind.

What A feels during that brief period is 'shanti' or peace of mind. A gets a lot of boosting from that brief period of peace. He/she becomes charged after that.

The state of mind of X at that brief period when they were locked is 'ananda'. X does want anything from A; X is not giving anyhing in material to A; X doesn't even talk to A;

Sometimes along with peace of mind, X also feels that Ananda feeling very briefly.

X may not be able to repeat this connection to everyone. It may happen only for the persons willing to receive X's connection.

This whole process is Satchitananda. You are capable of it; everyone here may be capable of it. This can't be permanent, because there are so many external worries we have during our life which upsets the equilibrium. But we do have it; we have done it few times in our lives.

So, Satchitananda is not impossible to attain while living in our rat race life.

Cheers!

Shri Raghy

This is not addressed to me. But, I want to say something if you dont mind. Yes I agree with your above example. But IMO it is only a sense of achievement in your mind. It goes more towards matha rather than Sat Chit Ananda though.
mmmm.... complicated emotions....

Regards
Amirtha

 

[Raghy]

Shri Raghy

This is not addressed to me. But, I want to say something if you dont mind. Yes I agree with your above example. But IMO it is only a sense of achievement in your mind. It goes more towards matha rather than Sat Chit Ananda though.
mmmm.... complicated emotions....

Regards
Amirtha

Sowbagyavathy Amirtha,

Yes, it can get in to mada. Have we not seen somany persons falling in that trap? It is so easy to fall in that. When people realise one has such controlled state of mind, they just crowd such a person and slowly not only that person but also the persons around him fall in the trap of mada. To maintain satchitananda, one has to stay calm and fight that mada. It is not hard. Again, one has to be honest and sincere; one has to apologise if any mistakes commited even after acheiving 'satchitananda' state of mind... after all, still one is a human being, could still make a mistake.

Cheers!

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

We have been discussing this topic for quite sometime. Whatever may be the
discussion, one will not be able to come to a conclusion because the desire makes
one to continue and dwell into this as to how to bring a satisfactory conclusion.

One may think that one should get enlightened and become free from all the
desires, no doubt it is a good idea, but that does not mean that one should keep
away from the desires or getting away from the attachments once for all including
from the family members. We are not Sadhus or Sanyasis. Everyone has got some
duty to perform in the life, which cannot be avoided. For example, Lord Krishna
when he was on the battlefield, HE too was immensely attached and in love with
all those who both loved and hated HIM. Similarly, during the great Kurushektra war,
HE had indirectly assisted to kill so many noble warriors and good-hearted souls
in the name of dharma i.e. righteousness. If one watches enlightened masters of
the ester years, despite their problems, remained relentlessly active throughout
their lives to fulfill many of their life goals with the utmost dedication, discipline
and sincerity. If one analyses, one may find there was a reason and hence they
were able to do so, further they were all also aware of the true nature of the Self.
Finally, one will be able to understand that everyone is connected with one another.

Can one say that the left arm ever feels envious or jealous about the right arm.
Like that do the ears ever get jealous of the eyes because they can see the lively
wonderful objects. This may look absurd because the entire thing is identified as one part
of the body. One sees the whole body as one part and the other parts of the body
i.e. eyes, hands, feet, legs etc., makes up the body complete. Normally, a unsatisfied
mind is never at ease, it longs for more and more and wanders to various places and
objects to find some sort of satisfaction. This thirst of unsatisfied mind persists till it
is able to find some solution or some sort of satisfaction and ultimately it searches to be
at the status of ease. Like that desire makes everyone uneasy and it makes the
person to make continuous efforts to fulfill those desires as a result of the mind
productive issues. Sometimes, when we go to a garden to pluck a flower, unknowingly
a thorn stucks to the clothes or the body, say in the leg, until one removes the thorn
it gives continuous pain. Similarly, if the desire is fulfilled, one feels a sense of relief.
Sometimes one may get caught in a vicious circle, and is rather constrained to experience
the cycle of pain-pleasure continuously prevalent in the life.

Lord Krishna in the third Chapter of Gita explains about the karma yoga to Arjuna.
In fact, Arjuna is on the total verge of collapse in the battlefield. He notices his
enemies, friends, relatives and elders etc on the battle field. Though he was
a great warrior, he was shying away from his duty as a warrior and did not wish to fight.
But, Lord Krishna advises him and encourages him by telling that he should focus on
selfless actions and dedicate them towards a noble ideal. Thus it is a lesson to us
that one should perform one’s duties without getting affected by egocentric desires.
One should take care not to be mislead by sense-created illusions.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[renuka]

I remember sometime ago one of my paternal distant uncles asked me why I only have one child and not at least 2.

I told him "take your family for example..many of you in one family..but as far as I know none of you are united..even into adulthood still fights take place..so does number really make a difference? Many people around you just gives you a false sense of security but in reality you are all alone"

I feel as we grow older we should realize this fact that one can be surrounded by anyone or anybody but true happiness is actually only within us..no one can provide us happiness..it has to come from within.

The most depressed people are often those who are hankering for others to provide them love.
It's a sad state to see even old people still desiring so much attention and not focusing on God.

 

[renuka]

I have a friend in India whose father used to work as a Cardiothoracic surgeon and when he became old he took up Sanyas.

He stays on his own and if family members want to see him they have to come and see him just like any other person with no special preference.

He is full time travelling giving discourses on Geeta etc.
He provided well for his family and only then left for Sanyas.

My friend talks highly of his father and also attends his fathers discourses from time to time.

 

[renuka]

For example, Lord Krishna
when he was on the battlefield, HE too was immensely attached and in love with
all those who both loved and hated HIM.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Dear sir,

Lord Krishna immensely LOVED everyone.

Attachment is a word used for worldly love where there is a certain level of expectation.

Only God loves us without any expectation from anyone of us.

In this world every type of relationship has attachment.

A wife love her husband with a certain expectations of love from him and vice versa.

A child loves his parents with a certain degree of expectations and if some are not met children even abandon parents.

In Blore the ISCKON sanyasi I met told me that mother's love is very close to divine love but still a mother to a certain extent expects some reciprocation from her child.
So every type of Love except Divine love has attachment and is on transaction basis.

The Sanyasi said only Divine Love has NO EXPECTATIONS and NO TRANSACTIONS.

So I feel the word ATTACHMENT should not be used to describe Lord Krishna's Love for everyone as Attachment comes with expectations.

 

[guruvayurappan]

post 132 #
dear raghy !
i enjoy your post line by line and every thought provoking with out any quotes and only from your experience.keep it up.look is like tiger but the heart with love.the words are flowing like the river with out any ornamental work.to say in tamil
அலங்காரம் இல்லாத அறிவுப்பூர்வமான வார்த்தைகள்
guruvayurappan