isolated living

[Nara]

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...... they are the hunted and the haunted.

This is so over the top. What are you talking about? Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are thriving in Tamil Nadu -- yes, they like to gripe, cry wolf about being hated, etc. but the fact is, brahmins on the average have done very well and even better than other caste groups. Hunted, really??!!

 

[krish44]

This is so over the top. What are you talking about? Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are thriving in Tamil Nadu -- yes, they like to gripe, cry wolf about being hated, etc. but the fact is, brahmins on the average have done very well and even better than other caste groups. Hunted, really??!!

I beg to disagre on brahmins doing well in tamilnadu. They are living on doles given by their children sendng money from abroad . most studied in self financing colleges on borrowed money and made careers in IT . The multinationals are looking after them along with the big four of IT..Their girls are being hunted by midcastes under the garb of love and these are displayed as trophies to their families and peer groups. The intermixing of castes has not been a pleasant experience for them. The temples being patronised by them are being taken over one by one in recent days . their religeous leaders have been run down .the films have a anti brahmin slant and make funof brahmin way of living .actors of brahmin faith are not having it easy.Action have been launched against a media group. these are just examples which anyone can obseve when one surveys the taminadu scene

 

[Vaagmi]

I beg to disagre on brahmins doing well in tamilnadu. They are living on doles given by their children sendng money from abroad . most studied in self financing colleges on borrowed money and made careers in IT . The multinationals are looking after them along with the big four of IT..Their girls are being hunted by midcastes under the garb of love and these are displayed as trophies to their families and peer groups. The intermixing of castes has not been a pleasant experience for them. The temples being patronised by them are being taken over one by one in recent days . their religeous leaders have been run down .the films have a anti brahmin slant and make funof brahmin way of living .actors of brahmin faith are not having it easy.Action have been launched against a media group. these are just examples which anyone can obseve when one surveys the taminadu scene

And add these too:

The very few brahmins in the TN Government service also can never aspire to rise in the ranks by promotions in time. Most of the time they are neglected or overridden. While the 40% of the judges belong to a particular dominant caste a mere addition of 4 brahmins as judges probables has been objected to so strongly that the promotion exercise has been given up altogether. Going by the opponent group's logic a day may come when we will have to ask for only brahmin judges to hear cases of brahmins and mudaliyar judges to hear cases of mudaliyars, dalit judges to adjudicate cases of dalits etc., Brahmins are living in the midst of palpable hostility in TN. Those who live in US do not know reality. They are far away from it or their reality is frozen in time.

 

[Nara]

...... these are just examples which anyone can obseve when one surveys the taminadu scene

Let us see, TBs are "the hunted and the haunted" because:

• children support elderly parents with foreign remittance
• borrow money to get educated in self finance colleges and make a career in IT
• TB girls fall in love and marry lower caste boys
• it is unpleasant to mix with other castes
• misappropriation and high-handedness in temples are getting questioned, even though the Brahmins are still able to act in highhanded manner with supreme court approval
• religious leader suspected of murder was prosecuted and the government was unable to get a conviction because key witnesses were silenced
• movies portray brahmins accurately, as they do other caste groups as well such as Thevar, etc.
• brahmin cine actors don't have it easy -- oh poor babies
• action against media group (what is this?) The Hindu seems to be doing fine

These are the examples of getting "hunted down and being haunted"??!!

So, as I said before, TBs love to gripe and cry wolf about being hated, etc., but the fact is, brahmins on the average have done very well and even better than other caste groups. Whining is useless, whining with imagined grievances is pathetic.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Going by the opponent group's logic a day may come when we will have to ask for only brahmin judges to hear cases of brahmins and mudaliyar judges to hear cases of mudaliyars, dalit judges to adjudicate cases of dalits etc., Brahmins are living in the midst of palpable hostility in TN.

What happened in this case is a despicable show of casteism but the ardent devotees of dravidianism won't acknowledge it.

The judge who happened to be a Brahmin was not allowed to sit on the bench discussing the merits or lack of it of the collegium system. This must be the first time a bench was forced to be reconstituted because of caste considerations. The funny thing is the very same advocates do not want any qualifier exam for vakil regn for example.

 

[sarang]

Recent objections raised by the lawyers on new judges appointment. Out of 60 posts, 13 are vacant. The chief justice agarwal recommended a list of 12 names. One objection is the list has three brahmins and eventually there will be ten brahmin judges out of 60, about 15%. Even the judges panel formed to hear the lawyers' complaint was dissolved as it contained a brahmin judge. I know of one case when karunanidhi as a cm issued instructions not to select a brahmin for a high post. This was said by a member of the selection panel and was mentioned in a group.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Recent objections raised by the lawyers on new judges appointment. Out of 60 posts, 13 are vacant. The chief justice agarwal recommended a list of 12 names. One objection is the list has three brahmins and eventually there will be ten brahmin judges out of 60, about 15%. Even the judges panel formed to hear the lawyers' complaint was dissolved as it contained a brahmin judge. I know of one case when karunanidhi as a cm issued instructions not to select a brahmin for a high post. This was said by a member of the selection panel and was mentioned in a group.

Is there any upper limit defined for occupation of judicial posts depending on a community's population percentage? Do we have community wise percentage of judicial posts in TN? If the protest is about representation of castes, there are close to 300 odd castes in TN. How will the 12 vacancies be shared among them is a mystery! The dravidianist version of social justice is not about uplifting of oppressed or anything like that. It is just marginalization of Brahmins. It is this realization that has dawned among communities such as vanniyars and hence the caste wars. Of course, if one were to say this here, one will be castigated as a vile bigoted casteist by anti-brahmins. But what they fail or pretend not to realize is that it is this very same tendency of flexing numbers and muscles that shows up as atrocities against dalits as well.

 

[krish44]

Let us see, TBs are "the hunted and the haunted" because:

• children support elderly parents with foreign remittance
• borrow money to get educated in self finance colleges and make a career in IT
• TB girls fall in love and marry lower caste boys
• it is unpleasant to mix with other castes
• misappropriation and high-handedness in temples are getting questioned, even though the Brahmins are still able to act in highhanded manner with supreme court approval
• religious leader suspected of murder was prosecuted and the government was unable to get a conviction because key witnesses were silenced
• movies portray brahmins accurately, as they do other caste groups as well such as Thevar, etc.
• brahmin cine actors don't have it easy -- oh poor babies
• action against media group (what is this?) The Hindu seems to be doing fine

These are the examples of getting "hunted down and being haunted"??!!

So, as I said before, TBs love to gripe and cry wolf about being hated, etc., but the fact is, brahmins on the average have done very well and even better than other caste groups. Whining is useless, whining with imagined grievances is pathetic.

naraji s mathematcs is very poor. How does he compute the average?
for someone to be convinced there has to be a willinness to be convinced.
the perverse actions like objections to appointment of brahmin judges does it make sense
brahmin baiting cannot be a way of life while having faith in atheism is your personal choice. no one really cares about the same but Irespect you for yr knowledge of hindu dharma your reading of alwars and interpretation of their thoughts

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Will somebody tell us the name and address of Tamil Non-TB community members who have been practising and reciting Vedas since at least 5 generations?

 

[Nara]

...for someone to be convinced there has to be a willinness to be convinced.

This is so true, isn't?

the perverse actions like objections to appointment of brahmin judges does it make sense

Take a look at this post.

.... while having faith in atheism is your personal choice.

This is simply irrelevant, the favorite diversionary tactic of many people here who disagree with me ....

 

[Vaagmi]

Let us see, TBs are "the hunted and the haunted" because:

• children support elderly parents with foreign remittance
• borrow money to get educated in self finance colleges and make a career in IT
• TB girls fall in love and marry lower caste boys
• it is unpleasant to mix with other castes
• misappropriation and high-handedness in temples are getting questioned, even though the Brahmins are still able to act in highhanded manner with supreme court approval
• religious leader suspected of murder was prosecuted and the government was unable to get a conviction because key witnesses were silenced
• movies portray brahmins accurately, as they do other caste groups as well such as Thevar, etc.
• brahmin cine actors don't have it easy -- oh poor babies
• action against media group (what is this?) The Hindu seems to be doing fine

These are the examples of getting "hunted down and being haunted"??!!

So, as I said before, TBs love to gripe and cry wolf about being hated, etc., but the fact is, brahmins on the average have done very well and even better than other caste groups. Whining is useless, whining with imagined grievances is pathetic.

1. "Children support elderly parents with remittances from abroad". They suffer silently the pain of being away from their old parents when they need their presence by their side most. Many sons have regretted their helplessness and their situation when they return back to their profession in US after completing the final rites of their father/mother. It is a pain and helplessness which haunts them and which they can never forget in their life time.

2. "borrow money to get educated in self finance colleges and make a career in IT". I borrowed money from the Central Government to finance my education and paid back the money with interest when I got a job. My friend/class mate who was a Nadar boy got free scholarship from 8th standard and college education was not a problem. His father was a Beedi Company owner and was rich. That is what is called pain. There was no envy. The disappointment that was written large on my father's face when he was told by the Head Master of my school that I was not eligible for any scholarship (I stood first in my school in SSLC) and the obvious pain are pictures which I can never forget. The pain was not because of not getting but because of the discrimination.

3. "It is unpleasant to mix with other castes". For this member mixing is unlocking the uteruses (he has himself said that once in this forum). That is where the problem comes in. Mixing is no problem. Brahmins are mixing with others as friends , associates, partners etc.,

4. "misappropriation and high-handedness in temples are getting questioned, even though the Brahmins are still able to act in highhanded manner with supreme court approval".

The member is not legally more knowledgeable than all the supreme court judges and the high court judges of the last 50 years who have all consistently ruled that Chidambaram temple is to be managed by only the Dikshitars of Thillai. Come to my village I will show you the fertile field of paddy crop that stands in the name of the local Krishna Temple and yet how the temple archakar goes without any payment by the HR&CE Board.

5. "movies portray brahmins accurately, as they do other caste groups as well such as Thevar, etc. brahmin cine actors don't have it easy -- oh poor babies".

Show me a single tamil movie in which the girl belonging to a Thevar/mudaliyar/vanniyar community marrying a dalit boy and then speak about the caste free tamil film industry. It is an unwritten rule sancrosanct in Tamil movies. The middle castes have their tentacles firmly in the film industry.

6. "action against media group (what is this?) The Hindu seems to be doing fine"

I think the group spoken about is Dinamalar group. The Hindu group owners are brahmins only as much as bigriver was a brahmin.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

1. "Children support elderly parents with remittances from abroad". They suffer silently the pain of being away from their old parents when they need their presence by their side most. Many sons have regretted their helplessness and their situation when they return back to their profession in US after completing the final rites of their father/mother. It is a pain and helplessness which haunts them and which they can never forget in their life time.

2. "borrow money to get educated in self finance colleges and make a career in IT". I borrowed money from the Central Government to finance my education and paid back the money with interest when I got a job. My friend/class mate who was a Nadar boy got free scholarship from 8th standard and college education was not a problem. His father was a Beedi Company owner and was rich. That is what is called pain. There was no envy. The disappointment that was written large on my father's face when he was told by the Head Master of my school that I was not eligible for any scholarship (I stood first in my school in SSLC) and the obvious pain are pictures which I can never forget. The pain was not because of not getting but because of the discrimination.

3. "It is unpleasant to mix with other castes". For this member mixing is unlocking the uteruses (he has himself said that once in this forum). That is where the problem comes in. Mixing is no problem. Brahmins are mixing with others as friends , associates, partners etc.,

4. "misappropriation and high-handedness in temples are getting questioned, even though the Brahmins are still able to act in highhanded manner with supreme court approval".

The member is not legally more knowledgeable than all the supreme court judges and the high court judges of the last 50 years who have all consistently ruled that Chidambaram temple is to be managed by only the Dikshitars of Thillai. Come to my village I will show you the fertile field of paddy crop that stands in the name of the local Krishna Temple and yet how the temple archakar goes without any payment by the HR&CE Board.

5. "movies portray brahmins accurately, as they do other caste groups as well such as Thevar, etc. brahmin cine actors don't have it easy -- oh poor babies".

Show me a single tamil movie in which the girl belonging to a Thevar/mudaliyar/vanniyar community marrying a dalit boy and then speak about the caste free tamil film industry. It is an unwritten rule sancrosanct in Tamil movies. The middle castes have their tentacles firmly in the film industry.

6. "action against media group (what is this?) The Hindu seems to be doing fine"

I think the group spoken about is Dinamalar group. The Hindu group owners are brahmins only as much as bigriver was a brahmin.

It was unfortunate that despite you stood first, you were denied of scholarship.

However, we have been repeatedly talking about discrimination, but have done nothing to
set things right. Tamil Brahmins are not willing to convert negative aspect into positive one.
We have been religiously crying against Govt. policies.

Why don't Tamil Brahmins start a common fund to help the needy, especially for education
and marriage? We don't have belief in ourselves. That is the reason.

Minorities like Parsis, Jains, Marwaris are extremely successful because of unstinted
co-operation and willingness to help their people at any cost.

We must follow them scrupulously.

 

[sarang]

300 odd judges on the bench (IT company practice). The litigants will select the judge, same caste or one from each caste depending on the caste of the litigants. If lady litigants insist on caste and gender specific judge, more will be added to the bench!

Is there any upper limit defined for occupation of judicial posts depending on a community's population percentage? Do we have community wise percentage of judicial posts in TN? If the protest is about representation of castes, there are close to 300 odd castes in TN. How will the 12 vacancies be shared among them is a mystery! The dravidianist version of social justice is not about uplifting of oppressed or anything like that. It is just marginalization of Brahmins. It is this realization that has dawned among communities such as vanniyars and hence the caste wars. Of course, if one were to say this here, one will be castigated as a vile bigoted casteist by anti-brahmins. But what they fail or pretend not to realize is that it is this very same tendency of flexing numbers and muscles that shows up as atrocities against dalits as well.

 

[sarang]

I can visualize the situation; mine was not very different but had a happy ending after a long wait. I applied for a merit-cum-means scholarship (for a state rank in PUC) in the first year of engineering with due recommendation from the college principal. I got the scholarship (1000 per year) only in the fourth year with arrears. The bulk was amount was used to purchase land in my mother's name. The land was given for kuththagai and there was no income after the first few years. Recently we sold the land to the grandson of the original tenant for ten lakh. Neither distress sale or market value sale. Current landlord has a beautiful bungalow, a couple of vehicles, and his engineer son and doctor daughter are in foreign shores with spouses from the same community - kallar. We are quite friendly and share lot of mutual respect. He has lot of respect for 'iyermars'.

The disappointment that was written large on my father's face when he was told by the Head Master of my school that I was not eligible for any scholarship (I stood first in my school in SSLC) and the obvious pain are pictures which I can never forget. The pain was not because of not getting but because of the discrimination.

 

[vgane]

My family used to have a good relation with this upper caste NB person, a high official of a quasi government body as one of my family members worked in the same office in Chennai

I knew him for 30 years

Then I heard this from the RSS incharge of the local Shaka, who was a Malayali Nayar

The incharge told me that this NB had told him that " Because of the shaka, the Brahmins of the locality have got Thimir (impudent)"...This guy tried to counter him but in vain

I think personally I have good relations with Vanniar or Thevar..But the upper caste NB's have a dislike for Brahmins, courtesy Big River

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Recently I was checking up about Retirement communities in Coimbatore. Some of the communities are exclusively Brahmin.

There are problems with such communities. The residents of such communities tend to be judgmental. They decide whether one could be classified as a Brahmin. If one is a non-conformist and does not do the expected things, then he is shunned bu others.

Many pf these communities are started with the nostalgia for Agaraharams. But what is being for gotten is that the people who lived in Agraharams had only one thing in common. They were all born Brahmins. People of different social status and beliefs stayed together in Agraharams.

You can not replicate the Agraharam living.

Again over the years we have glorified the Agraharam style of living and tend to gloss over many of the real problems faced by them.

As far as I am concerned, I am keeping away from such Brahmins alone communities.

 

[krish44]

Recently I was checking up about Retirement communities in Coimbatore. Some of the communities are exclusively Brahmin.

There are problems with such communities. The residents of such communities tend to be judgmental. They decide whether one could be classified as a Brahmin. If one is a non-conformist and does not do the expected things, then he is shunned bu others.

Many pf these communities are started with the nostalgia for Agaraharams. But what is being for gotten is that the people who lived in Agraharams had only one thing in common. They were all born Brahmins. People of different social status and beliefs stayed together in Agraharams.

You can not replicate the Agraharam living.

Again over the years we have glorified the Agraharam style of living and tend to gloss over many of the real problems faced by them.

As far as I am concerned, I am keeping away from such Brahmins alone communities.

Nacchinarkinian ji Segregating and confining of senior citizen in retirement communities is bad and having brahmin alone communities in retirement communities is worse. It would be a good idea if in all housing societies ,some flats are given to senior citizens with subsidies. this will help them to stay integrated with the community at large.they can make their flats senior citizen friendly . they can employ appropriate people to meet their needs. of course this implies that they have money to support this lifestyle

 

[krish44]

It was unfortunate that despite you stood first, you were denied of scholarship.

However, we have been repeatedly talking about discrimination, but have done nothing to
set things right. Tamil Brahmins are not willing to convert negative aspect into positive one.
We have been religiously crying against Govt. policies.

Why don't Tamil Brahmins start a common fund to help the needy, especially for education
and marriage? We don't have belief in ourselves. That is the reason.

Minorities like Parsis, Jains, Marwaris are extremely successful because of unstinted
co-operation and willingness to help their people at any cost.

We must follow them scrupulously.

the solution is TBs should be politically active and put a price on their votes. Vote for parties which do not believe in caste or religious discrimination. AAP might be a good choice

 

[CHANDRU1849]

the solution is TBs should be politically active and put a price on their votes. Vote for parties which do not believe in caste or religious discrimination. AAP might be a good choice

Indian Politics is solely dependent on population. With less than 3%, you cannot win even a single seat in Tamil Nadu.

I heard a story narrated by a speaker in the Brahmins' Association Meeting held in April 1982
in Rajeswari Kalyana Mandapam, Chennai, regarding commitment and co-operation among the
Parsi community. A poor Parsi tailor was living in Salem. Hearing this, the Parsis living in other States used to send their clothes to him for stitching. Over a period of time, the tailor became rich.

The success rate of Parsis in all fields is quite outstanding, even though the Parsi community now becomes a Tribe, total population of less than 80,000.

You can convert the negative aspect of less population rate in Tamil Nadu into positive one by uniting all Brahmin communities into one unit with a common agenda of upliftment of poor Brahmins thru education. This is the only solution.

Poor Brahmins may be encouraged by assisting them to start business.

 

[krish44]

Indian Politics is solely dependent on population. With less than 3%, you cannot win even a single seat in Tamil Nadu.

I heard a story narrated by a speaker in the Brahmins' Association Meeting held in April 1982
in Rajeswari Kalyana Mandapam, Chennai, regarding commitment and co-operation among the
Parsi community. A poor Parsi tailor was living in Salem. Hearing this, the Parsis living in other States used to send their clothes to him for stitching. Over a period of time, the tailor became rich.

The success rate of Parsis in all fields is quite outstanding, even though the Parsi community now becomes a Tribe, total population of less than 80,000.

You can convert the negative aspect of less population rate in Tamil Nadu into positive one by uniting all Brahmin communities into one unit with a common agenda of upliftment of poor Brahmins thru education. This is the only solution.

Poor Brahmins may be encouraged by assisting them to start business.

Brahmins are incapable of cooperating with each other. but they can join with the poor,youth and women to vote for a party which does not discriminate on basis of caste. One does not need a seat for brahmin to remove discrimination. They are capable of occupying any seat without invitation

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Brahmins are incapable of cooperating with each other. but they can join with the poor,youth and women to vote for a party which does not discriminate on basis of caste. One does not need a seat for brahmin to remove discrimination. They are capable of occupying any seat without invitation

Since differences are much, co-operation is not possible. But this can be done only by
constant contacts.

Anti-Brahmin feeling in Tamil Nadu is very severe among NBs, both rich and poor. It is impossible
to mobilize poor, women and youth from NB to fight election. Instead of wasting our energy in
the dirty politics, we can concentrate on education and encourage business among younr
Brahmins.

 

[krish44]

Since differences are much, co-operation is not possible. But this can be done only by
constant contacts.

Anti-Brahmin feeling in Tamil Nadu is very severe among NBs, both rich and poor. It is impossible
to mobilize poor, women and youth from NB to fight election. Instead of wasting our energy in
the dirty politics, we can concentrate on education and encourage business among younr
Brahmins.

people of delhi also thought so in the beginning. they brought about a change. Youth and women will change things. Brahmins are concentrating on education without your saying so. Women are prepared to pawn their jewellery for kids education. business requires a mindset. brahmins are a service class . they lack enterprise building skills . youth can of course try. some can succeed . why not

 

[vgane]

There is huge demand for knowledge businesses..Brahmins can put their energies on that...

Politics is like a marathon..You need to have the mental make up for politics..A hard struggle..Should lead by example and be ready to face the boulders and brickbats!

 

[krish44]

There is huge demand for knowledge businesses..Brahmins can put their energies on that...

Politics is like a marathon..You need to have the mental make up for politics..A hard struggle..Should lead by example and be ready to face the boulders and brickbats!

any business requires persistence and staying power. knowledge business may not require much capital. brahmins have the brains. after sometime those who start hang up go to a MNC for a job.Ladies can set up Ngos or self help groups collecting 5 ladies. They can engage in investing in share market or take advantage of arbitrage in gold or currency prices. It requires a little bit of knowledge and spunk to make money. See it is difficult to remain poor unless you decide you want to stay that way. someone once told me it is difficult to become poor in this country with so many get rich oppurtunities available for money making.
as for politics . You do require a mental make up. Youth are getting into it. When someone runs a marathon .run alongside them . you may be the inheritor of the fast runner. of course with violence and fears for safety can keep most away.

 

[ramasamyc]

Pls.dont have verbal combat over petty issue.