Kedarnath - earlier & now

[kk4646]

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[biswa]

Yes the devastation has been unbelievable.

 

[kk4646]

Yes the devastation has been unbelievable.

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?


TVK

 

[Raji Ram]

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?

May be Lord Shiva has shifted his abode from here, seeing the corruption in India!!

 

[tbs]

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?


TVK

hi
to make understand atheists/agnostics....GOD is greater than human beings and GOD EXISTS.....

 

[amala]

aha tbs garu atheist/agnostics can say that look in fact it shows otherwise! that God isn't hanging around no? If this is what God does to make atheist/agnostics believe anything HE is cutting his nose to spite his face, because he possibly killed heaps of his believers...strange way for God to show his existence if you ask me.

 

[biswa]

God does not have a nose, so there is no question of cutting it. You cant breathe in outer space anyway.

Also, God does not need to be benevolent. There are millions of people dying every day for various reasons. That does not prove or disprove anything about God.

 

[amala]

Mine wasn't literal...it was figurative to tbs sir. Surely it is not difficult to see what im trying to say

 

[prasad1]

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?


TVK

What is not God's abode?

 

[kunjuppu]

Silence of god

it is a very powerful question. why did God let evil happen? are the gods of one religion superior to the other?

are the tamil village gods like ayyannar, sudalai, madasamy, the various ammans - all inferior to the agamic gods?

i have heard, that the muslim friday prayers, even to this day, mourn the loss of al andalus - spain which was reconquered by the christians after 400 years of moor rulers, and did a complete cleansing, so that it was not till 30 years ago, that spain saw its first muslim or jew in 500 years...

what about the followers of ahuda mazda who ruled the whole of persia once upon a time, and who came as refugees to india and now known as parsis, a dying race.

no answers. believe your faith. if your belief is strong, it will give you comfort. but not answers.

 

[Nara]

...are the tamil village gods like ayyannar, sudalai, madasamy, the various ammans - all inferior to the agamic gods?

[snip]

no answers. believe your faith. if your belief is strong, it will give you comfort. but not answers.

A thousand gods have come and gone, from Mesopotamia to Greece to Egypt to Rome and of course our own 33 million gods. To give an explanation, however flawed, of events that we cannot control has worked as powerful analgesic for millennia. To question this is to be condemned as blasphemy deserving of being mounted on a stake or burned at the stake.

Those who can’t reconcile to the fact that an ayyanar or an amman is no more fanciful than a Vedic god, say Indira, who himself got unseated by Krishna according to later puranas, have come up with all sorts of esoteric theories. So much argument and so much wasted time on useless concepts like maya, brhman, etc. The common folks instinctively understood the absurdity of all this and called them out -- வறட்டு வேதாந்தம் கறிக்கு உதவாது.

If you look around you will find not a single savant of Advaitam, let alone those for whom it is only a hobby, who lives his/her life as though they believe in all that stuff. On the contrary, there are many to be found even, without actively looking, who are there for the quick buck. The other schools of vedantic “philosophy” are no better, and in fact may be worse. So, it looks like it all boils down to, as you say, finding comfort. In that case, why is an amman or ayyanar, who may provide comfort to millions of folks, any less than a Krishna or a Shiva who are no more real than the ayyanar or amman. The only answer to this question is jAti.

Now I have to brace myself for the onslaught of charges of BB from the BB, LOL

-- Dileepan

 

[Raji Ram]

......... are the tamil village gods like ayyannar, sudalai, madasamy, the various ammans - all inferior to the agamic gods?...........

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Those who believe that there exists a power which controls the universe, created many forms of Gods and later on started

fighting which is the greatest! So, for the God believers, their God is the greatest of the lot, be it Lord Shiva or Lord Sudalai!

 

[sangom]

But..WHY god has to do this to his OWN Shrine..?


TVK

Because the truth is, god is not there in any shrine.

 

[kk4646]

Because the truth is, god is not there in any shrine.

Yes..This what I was thinking...!!


TVK

 

[tbs]

hi


Uttarakhand floods: When God takes a fall

 

[C RAVI]

May be Lord Shiva has shifted his abode from here, seeing the corruption in India!!

Yeah!!!! Only Lord Shiva can know who his "Believing" Bakthas truly are, what all are their motives and what all they are yearning for. Group of People who all were killed are probably a mix of those who are either punished or simply given a way to transform to a better person in next janma or liberated once for all!

Who is a believer of GOD and who is not is immaterial to the Supreme. What the "Soul" deserves is what been offered by the Supreme Being.

 

[C RAVI]

hi
to make understand atheists/agnostics....GOD is greater than human beings and GOD EXISTS.....

To make understand Theists too.......To make them understand that their Bakthi towards the Supreme Conscience can not be misunderstood as having conquered the Rules of the Supreme.

 

[C RAVI]

A thousand gods have come and gone, from Mesopotamia to Greece to Egypt to Rome and of course our own 33 million gods. To give an explanation, however flawed, of events that we cannot control has worked as powerful analgesic for millennia. To question this is to be condemned as blasphemy deserving of being mounted on a stake or burned at the stake.

Those who can’t reconcile to the fact that an ayyanar or an amman is no more fanciful than a Vedic god, say Indira, who himself got unseated by Krishna according to later puranas, have come up with all sorts of esoteric theories. So much argument and so much wasted time on useless concepts like maya, brhman, etc. The common folks instinctively understood the absurdity of all this and called them out -- வறட்டு வேதாந்தம் கறிக்கு உதவாது.

If you look around you will find not a single savant of Advaitam, let alone those for whom it is only a hobby, who lives his/her life as though they believe in all that stuff. On the contrary, there are many to be found even, without actively looking, who are there for the quick buck. The other schools of vedantic “philosophy” are no better, and in fact may be worse. So, it looks like it all boils down to, as you say, finding comfort. In that case, why is an amman or ayyanar, who may provide comfort to millions of folks, any less than a Krishna or a Shiva who are no more real than the ayyanar or amman. The only answer to this question is jAti.

Now I have to brace myself for the onslaught of charges of BB from the BB, LOL

-- Dileepan

The Supreme Conscience is what we call as GOD and that's all pervading the universe as Spiritual Energies. Humans with powerful brain and ego gave different forms and different names to this Supreme Conscience and got set into the Spiritual Journey to tap the Spiritual Energies, with their own set of belief system. Plenty of Spiritual Philosophies and Practices were been arrayed in each of the different belief systems in their quest to get into total synchronization with the Supreme Conscience.

The Celestial bodies and its phenomena are understood as the factors influencing human's nature, behavior and events and that could be satisfactorily seen/experienced. The all comprising and all pervading Supreme Conscience has the Rule of the Game, common to all and to every thing.

No species can ever overrule this Rule of the Supreme Conscience BUT can attempt to recognize, understand and work towards getting synchronized.

The great Gnyanis like Shri Raghvendra, Shri Ramana Maharishi, Shri Sheshadri Swamigal etc and such others from other faiths could successfully accomplish their spiritual journey and have merged with the Supreme Conscience for ever.

 

[auh]

Yeah!!!! Only Lord Shiva can know who his "Believing" Bakthas truly are, what all are their motives and what all they are yearning for. Group of People who all were killed are probably a mix of those who are either punished or simply given a way to transform to a better person in next janma or liberated once for all!

Who is a believer of GOD and who is not is immaterial to the Supreme. What the "Soul" deserves is what been offered by the Supreme Being.

Nothing can hurt more, to the grieving, than such words, I think.

It is not that those who died in the fury of the Himalayas are outcasts and are non-believing bhaktas or non-believing non-bhaktas. This has nothing to do with God's existence or non-existence.

Let us offer our sympathies, at least, to those who perished/suffered, and exclude philosophical outpourings on this.

It is truly unfortunate to see such an episode of mass destruction. Imagine if our loved ones were to be caught in such a plight - would it not be heartbreaking?

 

[sangom]

A thousand gods have come and gone, from Mesopotamia to Greece to Egypt to Rome and of course our own 33 million gods. To give an explanation, however flawed, of events that we cannot control has worked as powerful analgesic for millennia. To question this is to be condemned as blasphemy deserving of being mounted on a stake or burned at the stake.

Those who can’t reconcile to the fact that an ayyanar or an amman is no more fanciful than a Vedic god, say Indira, who himself got unseated by Krishna according to later puranas, have come up with all sorts of esoteric theories. So much argument and so much wasted time on useless concepts like maya, brhman, etc. The common folks instinctively understood the absurdity of all this and called them out -- வறட்டு வேதாந்தம் கறிக்கு உதவாது.

If you look around you will find not a single savant of Advaitam, let alone those for whom it is only a hobby, who lives his/her life as though they believe in all that stuff. On the contrary, there are many to be found even, without actively looking, who are there for the quick buck. The other schools of vedantic “philosophy” are no better, and in fact may be worse. So, it looks like it all boils down to, as you say, finding comfort. In that case, why is an amman or ayyanar, who may provide comfort to millions of folks, any less than a Krishna or a Shiva who are no more real than the ayyanar or amman. The only answer to this question is jAti.

Now I have to brace myself for the onslaught of charges of BB from the BB, LOL

-- Dileepan

Dear Shri Dileepan,

I feel the point here is not வேதாந்தம் (philosophy) nor வறட்டு வேதாந்தம் (dry philosophy) nor even the inter-se priorities among the many gods, alluded to by Shri Kunjuppu. It is all due to extreme material greed of human beings, mostly Indians in this case. In the guise of promoting tourism to Badrinath, Kedarnath, etc., all the natural resources which can be sold and turned to cash, have been exploited recklessly - and for several years now.

Nature is such a huuuuge force that when it just shrugs, thousands will die. This simple lesson which even the primitive barbarian man knew somewhat, has been forgotten by the present day Indians and the governments.

Today, I heard from the TV channels that all visitors to badri and kedar have been banned for a period of 3 years.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Kedarnath--earlier & now.

Nothing can hurt more, to the grieving, than such words, I think.

It is not that those who died in the fury of the Himalayas are outcasts and are non-believing bhaktas or non-believing non-bhaktas. This has nothing to do with God's existence or non-existence.
Let us offer our sympathies, at least, to those who perished/suffered, and exclude philosophical outpourings on this.
It is truly unfortunate to see such an episode of mass destruction. Imagine if our loved ones were to be caught in such a plight - would it not be heartbreaking?

Dear Friend,

Wonderful message. I agree with every word of yours. Compassion and love are inborn quality of human being. Let us not forsake it for the sake of argument.
Well, I wish to share with you similar situation that I have experienced in the same month of June 1992 during my Kerarnath Yathra. When I left Rambara, I was caught in a sudden cloud burst of hail storm with continuous thunder and lightning. The fear of uncertainty gripped me.I understood how helpless and vulnerable we are against the fury of nature ! There is no covered space to stand underneath. Water and mud were gushing from upper regions of the great mountain. All the people stood under Plastic sheet of a "pahadi dhaba" for more than two hours till the sky got cleared suddenly. Seven KM journey took five hours for me to climb. Group of my relatives who reached earlier on the Mules were anxiously waiting at the outskirts of Kedarnath town for me.

I am told cloud bursts are common during this season and this year it is severe.
Suffering is same for all. When it happens to us only we understand the pain. Let us try to help in what ever we could, otherwise offer our sympathies and prayers and wish that all people who had gone on pilgrimage in Himalayas return safely.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...ssive-devastation-at-kedarnath/20130619.htm#1

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear All

I was jerked out of my sleep a few days ago and told to 'get moving'.

I am now at Rudrapur, coordinating relief work. Yes, the devastation is massive.
But the press has a way of playing up things.

This is my 35th year in helping people 'picking-up' their pieces, all over the globe
and I fully agree with Sri Nara [ Dileep - before /after 'the leap' ? ] .

There is so much to be done in the world and so little one can do - especially
whiling away time on meaningless jargon and empty philosophies.

Got to go now - just got a few minutes at the army base camp to establish
contact with family - stole a few seconds to get on TB Forum

Guruvethunai

Yay Yem

 

[Brahmanyan]

Kedarnath--earlier & now.

All of us talk about one part of the problem. The Pilgrims safety. There is another part which is serious. The people of Uttarakhand living around the Holy places in the Himalayas solely depend on the Pilgrim flow during the season for their living. Having lost their homes and livelihood this year, I am afraid these wonderful people will be reduced to beggars waiting for the doles from Government.

This is one of the most neglected States of India. There is no major Industry. Their main natural wealth, the Himalayan Forests have been systematically plundered by the "hawks from the plains" as described by the Hill folk. Sri Sunderlal Bahuguna started Chipko Andolan to arrest this plunder in 70s and succeeded to some extent. If you travel further inside Uttarakhand you can see large white patches on the sides of the Mountains. These are the places from where limestone and gypsum have been mined and sent to industries in the plains. The natives of Uttarakhand are hard working and honest people.But they have to live with most unfriendly terrain and nature. Many of the households have sent their menfolk to Army Services. Kumaon and Gharwal Regiments are well known units in Indian Army.

Let us watch how the crores and crores of rupees granted by Central Government and State Government are going to save the people of this State.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[prasad1]

Dear All

I was jerked out of my sleep a few days ago and told to 'get moving'.

I am now at Rudrapur, coordinating relief work. Yes, the devastation is massive.
But the press has a way of playing up things.

This is my 35th year in helping people 'picking-up' their pieces, all over the globe
and I fully agree with Sri Nara [ Dileep - before /after 'the leap' ? ] .

There is so much to be done in the world and so little one can do - especially
whiling away time on meaningless jargon and empty philosophies.

Got to go now - just got a few minutes at the army base camp to establish
contact with family - stole a few seconds to get on TB Forum

Guruvethunai

Yay Yem

Thank you, for doing actual relief work. Most of us get our daily fix from news feed, but you are the person on the ground doing the work. Thanks again.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I was looking for a post in this thread, wherein a claim was made that agamic gods are superior, but I could not find it. Perhaps it was deleted later but my guess is that such a post was not made So references to such non-existing posts are part of the usual run-of-the-mill bashing. It is pathetic that even a natural calamity of such a magnitude is used as an opportunity for some to bash.

A word on this coinage of "brahmin bigots" shortened as BB as a riposte to usage of "Brahmin bashers". There is a fundamental difference here. The word "brahmin basher" is akin to say "deer hunter" in the sense that it is the deer that is hunted and the brahmins who are bashed - so the qualifier comes from the poster's actions and not from poster's caste. On the other hand, the accusation "Brahmin bigots" or the one used before "paarppana budhdhi" is simply a casteistic attack, because it refers to the caste of the poster. The usage "Brahmin bigots" serves as proof of bashing.

The truth is that the bashers themselves are the bigots because they pretend to be well-wishers of the community but indulge in such casteistic attacks even in unrelated threads such as this one. So the BBs are BBBs (Brahmin bashing bigots) all one and the same. The sooner the BBBs get rid of this hatemongering itch the better it is for them.