Means of Happiness

[Visalakshi Ramani]

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Does this include only worldly possessions or even knowledge gathered???

 

[zebra16]

We find that people who live in poor conditions are also happy. They do not know anything about philosophy.

But still they laugh and smile and enjoy life to the possible extent. The definition of 'happiness' is this:

'Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being characterized by positive or pleasant emotions, ranging

from contentment to intense joy.' IMHO, envy - resentful desire of something possessed by another or others -

is the prime reason for unhappiness!

This is over simplification. I lost my father long while back, my close friend's father is still very much alive and helps my friend at times of my difficulty. I do not desire his father to be mine nor am i jealous or resentful to him. I only wish that my father was alive too to share my joys and sorrows. May be what you said is true only for material possessions.

Everyone is happy for short durations everyday. The endeavour is to prolong the happiness and ultimately make it life lasting.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Anybody who seeks happiness has already lost it.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Anybody who seeks happiness has already lost it.

True! We seek ONLY
what we do not have
(or think that we do not have).

 

[suraju06]

Dear Zebra,

Please read this:

While awake we run after the world and worldly things. When we sleep we get detached completely from the external world; go into ourselves and reside in our Atman - enjoying the bliss (steeped in ignorance.) That is what rejuvenates us while we sleep. We get everything from Atman and spend it again in running after the world. In other words we find bliss in Atman in [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]deep sleep[/COLOR]. But sine we are unaware if it, we seek it again, while awake, in the outside world.

Now I am going to frame my question a little elaborately. Please answer me straight without bringing into the reckoning the advaitam, non-advaitam etc.,

1.While awake we run after the world and worldly things. -Whom does this we represent?

2.When we sleep we get detached completely from the external world; go into ourselves and reside in our Atman - enjoying the bliss-How do we go into ourselves? Before that where were we? And again who is this "we"?

I am not here for playing with words. I am genuinely in search of answers for my questions. Please don't paint me with non-advaitin paint and give flippant answers. If you have u nderstood , please explain to me. If you have not please leave it. I understand English and Tamil well.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Zebra,

Please read this:


Now I am going to frame my question a little elaborately. Please answer me straight without bringing into the reckoning the advaitam, non-advaitam etc.,

1.While awake we run after the world and worldly things. -Whom does this we represent?

2.When we sleep we get detached completely from the external world; go into ourselves and reside in our Atman - enjoying the bliss-How do we go into ourselves? Before that where were we? And again who is this "we"?

Sri Raju,

I liked the questions posed by you on which I ponder too.

Though your post is address to Shri.Zebra, I would just wish to express my thoughts, as what and how I could understand..

Atman and "WE" are not two different entity. It is the same. "WE" are "we" who call our self "Atman" when we are awake, in this worldly set up of MAYA. Thus Atman = WE

When we/atman is awake, we/atman get into delusion due MAYA and fail to realize the truth and the bliss. When we/atman get into sleep mode, we/atman gets rejuvineted, having ditached from the worldly things, and this does not mean having attained absolute realization.

When we/atman could succeed attaining realization, we/atman continues to enjoy bliss no matter if awaken or slept, and thus become Gnyaani.

 

[suraju06]

As a free thinking individual I look at this this way:

We have an issue here. We are trying to understand what happens when we are in deep sleep.

The available facts are 1) that we do not know what happens in this world when we are in that state 2) On getting up we feel rejuvenated and happy.3) when a mosquito bites we are able to come back, swat it and then go back to that state of bliss. This means we are always there and we do not go away any where or into any other state of a being.

( I have used the term we here in an understandable sense that is it represents you and me. If you are particular about it you can say we represents the souls of you and me contained in the respective bodies. So there is no confusion, it is presumed on solid reason)

It is also an available fact that there is an entity called God. We believe in that.(If you are an atheist and do not believe in God, you have come to the wrong place. Please hit the appropriate keys on your keyboard and get out from here as you are wasting your time here)

If taking all these facts into account if I say that we the souls get nearest to the God in all of us (God resides in all of us as antaratman. Is it not so?) when we are asleep will it be far off the mark?That is why we were blissful then and infer that fact afterwards when we move away from Him when we are awake. This appears to be a simpler and straight reasoning. Why complicate the situation?ஏரார் முயலிருக்க காக்கைப்பின் போவதேன்? or கனியிருப்ப காய் கவர்வதேன்?

My this presentation has nothing to do with any established ism. If it appears to have anything it is just a coincidence. I am a free individual. I think on my own and constantly look for validation from other thinking souls.

Cheers

 

[sravna]

As a free thinking individual I look at this this way:

We have an issue here. We are trying to understand what happens when we are in deep sleep.

The available facts are 1) that we do not know what happens in this world when we are in that state 2) On getting up we feel rejuvenated and happy.3) when a mosquito bites we are able to come back, swat it and then go back to that state of bliss. This means we are always there and we do not go away any where or into any other state of a being.

( I have used the term we here in an understandable sense that is it represents you and me. If you are particular about it you can say we represents the souls of you and me contained in the respective bodies. So there is no confusion, it is presumed on solid reason)

It is also an available fact that there is an entity called God. We believe in that.(If you are an atheist and do not believe in God, you have come to the wrong place. Please hit the appropriate keys on your keyboard and get out from here as you are wasting your time here)

If taking all these facts into account if I say that we the souls get nearest to the God in all of us (God resides in all of us as antaratman. Is it not so?) when we are asleep will it be far off the mark?That is why we were blissful then and infer that fact afterwards when we move away from Him when we are awake. This appears to be a simpler and straight reasoning. Why complicate the situation?ஏரார் முயலிருக்க காக்கைப்பின் போவதேன்? or கனியிருப்ப காய் கவர்வதேன்?

My this presentation has nothing to do with any established ism. If it appears to have anything it is just a coincidence. I am a free individual. I think on my own and constantly look for validation from other thinking souls.

Cheers

Dear Shri Raju,

The reason why we are blissful in deep sleep is that we are away from illusion of the physical world. In deep sleep where there are no dreams we are even away from the illusion of mental world and hence are blissful. When we are away from both these illusions we are closer to the ultimate reality and therefore closer to god and thus enjoy the bliss. When we are in deep sleep we don't even experience the time or we pass into a state close to timelessness This also happens during a deep meditation when we are away from the illusions.

 

[prasad1]

Who is aware of the three states?

 

[Raji Ram]

........ I only wish that my father was alive too to share my joys and sorrows. May be what you said is true only for material possessions......

Dear Narayanan Sir,

I can understand your feelings. Everyone in this world faces different problems in life. What I meant to say is that we should

not lament about what we are NOT bestowed by God and feel unhappy. My friend used to tell me about the 'half a cup of tea'

philosophy. When someone offers half a cup of tea, we should feel happy for the given tea and should not feel that the other

half is empty. I have lived enough decades and have seen many unhappy persons just because they always envy others for

anything under the sun! It includes all the material possessions and many other aspects like beauty, fair skin, slim figure,

efficiency in fine arts, intelligence, well behaved children, huge friends circle and even the 'sumangali' status! That is why I

simplified and wrote my earlier post.


P.S: This is also an answer to my sis's Q:

Does this include only worldly possessions or even knowledge gathered???

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sravna,

Thank you for your time. You have said:

The reason why we are blissful in deep sleep is that we are away from illusion of the physical world. In deep sleep where there are no dreams we are even away from the illusion of mental world and hence are blissful.

I think it is just that we are away from the physical world's activities while in deep sleep. I do not understand why you call it all an illusion. Neither the physical world nor the feelings of the mental world are illusion. They are real. It is very difficult to accept that you are an illusion, that what you have put on this computer screen is an illusion, that the computer itself is an illusion,that the electricity which runs the computer is an illusion (when the power fails, my computer blinks, feebly grunts kee kee kee and goes off). These are all real. They are not illusions or mere projections of my mind. To say these are my minds projection without any substrate on which they exist would be equivalent to saying that I am under the influence of a psychotropic substance, which is not the situation.

There is another reason too. I do not consider the physical world and mental world as illusory and less blissful or tortuous. Only the pleasure and the bliss I feel here is of a different kind. Fortunately and by God's grace my physical world gives me a pleasant experience and I am happy. So I continue to live in this situation. While asleep, I do enjoy the bliss(as realised after the event or shall I say the non-event) of a different kind.

Why should we complicate things saying that life is illusory or the world is illusory? Why not accept that everything is real and move on?

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

The word Mithya is not illusion or false. It just means it is unreal.
The only thing that is real is Brahmam, as it remains same in all three time periods. The past, present and future.

 

[renuka]

The word Mithya is not illusion or false. It just means it is unreal.
The only thing that is real is Brahmam, as it remains same in all three time periods. The past, present and future.

Dear Prasad ji,

You are right..

Mithya is often misunderstood as an Illusion or being False or Non Existent.

Mithya in the context of Advaita means Transient since it is Ever changing hence Unreal.

 

[renuka]

Who is aware of the three states?

The one who does not ask this question anymore... for him there is only Brahman.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Thank you for your time. You have said:


I think it is just that we are away from the physical world's activities while in deep sleep. I do not understand why you call it all an illusion. Neither the physical world nor the feelings of the mental world are illusion. They are real. It is very difficult to accept that you are an illusion, that what you have put on this computer screen is an illusion, that the computer itself is an illusion,that the electricity which runs the computer is an illusion (when the power fails, my computer blinks, feebly grunts kee kee kee and goes off). These are all real. They are not illusions or mere projections of my mind. To say these are my minds projection without any substrate on which they exist would be equivalent to saying that I am under the influence of a psychotropic substance, which is not the situation.

There is another reason too. I do not consider the physical world and mental world as illusory and less blissful or tortuous. Only the pleasure and the bliss I feel here is of a different kind. Fortunately and by God's grace my physical world gives me a pleasant experience and I am happy. So I continue to live in this situation. While asleep, I do enjoy the bliss(as realised after the event or shall I say the non-event) of a different kind.

Why should we complicate things saying that life is illusory or the world is illusory? Why not accept that everything is real and move on?

Cheers.

Dear Shri Raju,

Let me make it clear what I meant by illusion. By that I meant something which is non-existent in a higher reality. Of course at the level of physical reality all what you say is real. For brahman there is no sravna or raju or the computer or the sound it makes. So as Adi Sankara says shall we call this a relative reality. It is just as one who wakes up from the dream finds nothing in the dream is real but when he is dreaming everything seems real. So when we are at a particular level of reality we can't help feeling that is the reality. That is why we call it a reality though from a higher level it is just non-existent.

 

[SANDHYAV]

dream is an edited memory (past/present/future) sequence. Period. a simple MATHS problem can provide more happiness than speculating why a dream came on a night which has gone.

 

[sravna]

dream is an edited memory (past/present/future) sequence. Period. a simple MATHS problem can provide more happiness than speculating why a dream came on a night which has gone.

Dear SandhyaV,

I agree. Thus the dream has as its basis the content of the physical reality but the dream itself is not real. We can similarly argue that the events in the physical reality has the spiritual reality as their basis and therefore the physical reality has the same status with respect to spiritual reality just as a dream has to physical reality.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

True! We seek ONLY
what we do not have
(or think that we do not have).

People think happiness comes with an MRP on it. Like the only way to swim is to swim, if you want happiness, you just have to be happy.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sravna,

This is what you have said:

So when we are at a particular level of reality we can't help feeling that is the reality. That is why we call it a reality though from a higher level it is just non-existent.

To me reality is reality and there are no different levels in it. The moment you bring in levels you are speaking a language which I do not understand because I do not know what is the level at which you are and what is the level at which I am. If as you appear to say, we are at different levels in understanding the reality, it may be impossible to carry out a transaction/exchange meaningfully. Because you have brought in the name of Sankara, I believe you are speaking from the standpoint of a certain ism. May be if you unlearn what you have picked up, you will come down to my ordinary level and we may understand each other better. But that is very difficult for many people. So let us both go our different ways and think, ruminate and finally realise in course of time.

Cheers.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

This is what you have said:



To me reality is reality and there are no different levels in it. The moment you bring in levels you are speaking a language which I do not understand because I do not know what is the level at which you are and what is the level at which I am. If as you appear to say, we are at different levels in understanding the reality, it may be impossible to carry out a transaction/exchange meaningfully. Because you have brought in the name of Sankara, I believe you are speaking from the standpoint of a certain ism. May be if you unlearn what you have picked up, you will come down to my ordinary level and we may understand each other better. But that is very difficult for many people. So let us both go our different ways and think, ruminate and finally realise in course of time.

Cheers.

Dear Shri Raju,

I am not saying that I am at a different level than you are in understanding reality. I have a certain conviction and so have you. Just as it does not make people who believe in God be placed at a different level from those who do not, it does not place me at a different level than you are just because I believe there is a higher reality. I am just placing an argument based on something we understand such as a dream. It gives us reason to believe that what appears as reality may not be actually be so. That is the crux of my argument.

 

[C RAVI]

Everything is real and makes sense only till our senses are identifying each and everything, understanding them and trying to utilize them, see them and feel them. Having such senses we try to make sense of everything. Unless we makes sense of everything we can not get through everything and live with sense of "I" and "MINE", striving to satisfy the "SELF"

When it is spiritually said that everything in this land of human survival is unreal, it only means that, they are just an illusionary projection to keep the survival surviving and that the species called HUMANS with extra ordinary senses can opt a spiritual path to realize and see the absolute reality beyond this illusionary projection. Such that, the Atman finds itself just a part and parcel of the whole and there is nothing to realize the differentiations in any thing that the mere senses felt and perceived, including the self and thus attains the absolute realization

I agree fully with Shri.Sravna with respect to the levels of reality..