Non Hindus praying to Ganesha

[sunita]

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This was shared in Facebook and I am sharing it here for information purpose only. This by no means is meant to hurt anybody's sentiment or views.

I was surfing through random blogs and I landed on very interesting one, This blog has two pictures, one where National Champion Mary in front of Ganpati idol and in another some people appears to be Muslims keeping flower in front of Ganpati’s idol, blog was about something and I was really not interested in reading it but I already sensed that this is a taboo subject for Christians, Muslims , Sikhs and etc. So I just scrolled and started reading the comments from trolls.

Every comment was derogatory from the other, People were challenging Mary and the Muslim family , Paying respect to Hindu God will reserve you a front seat in hell was the idea. It suddenly strike me that I am Muslim and I have studied in convent my friends were hinds , Jain and Sikhs , Christians. I have been to prabhat feri , Dandiya dance and served in chuamasa , so if these guys are going to hell where would I be going is there any worst place then hell ? … I remember when I went to Ajmer Shrief with my Hindu friend and Same Hindu friend sung “ Silent night holy night” on stage before Christmas holidays .

I have never noticed him fearing from any Hindu God that they’ll be sending him to hell for bowing in Golden temple or eating sevayi on Eid , but many of us, we had this doubt that if we’ll eat Prasad from bajrang bali temple we will have a one way ticket to hell. Recently I asked him if his mom and dad ever told him to stay away from Muslim or Christian worship places , he smiled and told me that when he was a kid and wanted to pray before exams he use to carry Ganesh ji in his pencil box but one day he lost that small idol and was very upset , then his mom told him that he could pray to Mother Mary , Mother Mary statue was on our basketball court , his mom told him that no matter where you pray, it will reach to Ganesh ji as all the Gods up above know each other , Since that day if he is not able to find Shani Dev temple on Saturday he goes to nearby church and offer his Shani dev’s prayers there.

Since ages hindus are living in this subcontinent, though Mughals came and gone they never tried to avenge the loss , being a majority is not an easy task , you carry a huge burden of responsibility you have to sacrifice many desires , Just like Pakistan or Bangladesh where Muslims were in majority and they made these countries Islamic , India could also had Hindu Rashtra but instead they made it utopia and melting pot for every religion , People who disrespect Hindus for worshiping Idol are very shallow , It’s just because of Hindu we have a secular India . I wish we will stop testing their patience and hug them for what they have sacrificed and for sharing this awesome land known as India.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....353930984689319.81502.341119145970503&type=1

 

[biswa]

I dont think this post will upset anyone in this forum.

BTW, Salman Khan and his family is known for doing a very public Ganapati Puja in Mumbai.

 

[vgane]

Recently I attended a Christian Hindu wedding done in Hindu style...The Christian boy was following the Pandit & his instructions...Cool!

 

[renuka]

BTW are we thinking that Lord Ganesha is Hindu?

 

[vgane]

BTW are we thinking that Lord Ganesha is Hindu?

Dear Dr Renukaji,

What is the puzzle?

 

[renuka]

Dear Dr Renukaji,

What is the puzzle?

You see...if we think that Lord Ganesh is a Hindu only then it become surprising that Non Hindus jump in to "pray" to Lord Ganesh.

If we think that Lord Ganesh is the Universal Obstacle Terminator then anyone from any part of the Universe can pray to Lord Ganesh.

 

[palindrome]

It is more appropriate to term Ganesha a tribal deity, rather than a hindu deity.

The Adivasi Bhils (who incidentally are Indo-Aryan speakers) worship Ganesha in the human original form (ie., without the Elephant head). The elephant head has a puranic origin.

In various puranas, Ganesha was created by Parvati from dirt off her skin (some may think dirt indicates a lowly origin). He was rejected by Shiva originally through the concoction/conceptualization of a doorkeeper story and accepted (even elevated as the chief or commander of Shiva's ganas as Ganapati) after he was affixed with an Elephant head.

Since the Bhil indo-aryan speakers worship the original human form, it is believed the creation of present day Ganapati with an Elephant head was conceived within the Indian geographical region. According to the book "tribal roots of hinduism" the Ganapatyas have a tribal origin and became absorbed with Shaiva religion and Shaiva pantheon later.

In Jain temples Ganesha is depicted on door frames (has lesser importance in the jaina pantheon). As a tantrik deity Ganesha is found in tibetan buddhism as Vinayaka, remover of obstacles. From a tribal origin, the deity called Vinayaka, Ganesha, Ganapati, found his way into different agama / tantra margas.

Incidentally, the story of Ganesha's birth from dirt off Parvati's skin is also found in Aitareya Brahmana (the only 'vedic' text recounting the story). Otherwise it is detailed in the SuprabhedaAagama. I have no idea which is older, the agama version or the brahmana version.

However, the story appears to depict that ganapatyas were outside the shaiva fold; were protected by shaktas before being absorbed into shaivism (perhaps after a period of conflict involving the Amman/Parvati/Devi worshiping Shaktas).

It appears the roots of all religions have their genesis in the tribal period.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ In various puranas, Ganesha was created by Parvati from dirt off her skin (some may think dirt indicates a lowly origin). .........

Dirt off her skin??

This is something I have not heard so far!

"The most well-known story is probably the one taken from the Shiva Purana. Once, while his mother Parvati wanted to

take a bath, there were no attendants around to guard her and stop anyone from accidentally entering the house. Hence

she created an image of a boy out of turmeric paste which she prepared to cleanse her body (turmeric was used for its

antiseptic and cooling properties), and infused life into it, and thus Ganesha was born."


Source: Mythological anecdotes of Ganesha


BTW, dear Palindrome, can anyone be so dirty to make an idol out of 'dirt off the skin'!! :dizzy:

 

[Raji Ram]

Every pooja starts with making of 'manjaL piLLaiyAr'.

Usually it is made as a cone with a 'kunkumap pottu'.

But some artistic women make like this:

Source: Preethiyin Kai Vannam: Manjal Pillayar

 

[ozone]

Dirt off her skin??

This is something I have not heard so far!

BTW, dear Palindrome, can anyone be so dirty to make an idol out of 'dirt off the skin'!! :dizzy:

It appears that the root to such litter is the tribal thinking, rumor mongering and above all dishonesty to everything including self.

 

[renuka]

Dirt off her skin??

This is something I have not heard so far!

Dear RR ji,

This is not really an unknown version..I have read about this version when I was a teen.

The other version is where she makes Ganesh out of Sandal paste or Turmeric paste obtained from her own body and the 3rd version says she used the Turmeric paste prepared for her bath.


Beings coming out of "dirt" is nothing new in Puranas..after all even Lord Vishnus ear wax(dirt) gave rise to Madhu and Kaitabha.

Actually we do not have to take it the word dirt literally.

What is so called dirt is basically shed epithelial cells of the skin(epidermis)... epithelial cells contain DNA too..so we can say that the epithelial cells contained DNA of Parvati.

In crime scene investigation..cells shed from skin are more than enough to determine DNA of anyone.

May be ancients did not have a word to describe epithelial cells/DNA to lay men back then so they could only think of the word dirt.

 

[prasad1]

Dear RR ji,

This is not really an unknown version..I have read about this version when I was a teen.

The other version is where she makes Ganesh out of Sandal paste or Turmeric paste obtained from her own body and the 3rd version says she used the Turmeric paste prepared for her bath.


Beings coming out of "dirt" is nothing new in Puranas..after all even Lord Vishnus ear wax(dirt) gave rise to Madhu and Kaitabha.

Actually we do not have to take it the word dirt literally.

What is so called dirt is basically shed epithelial cells of the skin(epidermis)... epithelial cells contain DNA too..so we can say that the epithelial cells contained DNA of Parvati.

In crime scene investigation..cells shed from skin are more than enough to determine DNA of anyone.

May be ancients did not have a word to describe epithelial cells/DNA to lay men back then so they could only think of the word dirt.

You are correct. But this statement in this thread "Dirt off her skin??" was made out of mischief. This is mocking at our belief system. A simple statement can take on sinister meaning depending on the tone.

 

[palindrome]

Oh my my, what religion does to people.....

Anyways, rajiram, ozone, prasad, before you posted you cud have tried google books with simple search terms as these: https://www.google.com/webhp?source...apati+dirt+parvati's+skin&tab=wp&tbm=bks&um=1

Alternatively you cud have asked a ganapatya priest near your home. Better still you cud have referred to the skanda purana, or varaha purana or matsya purana, or the ganesa-khanda of the brahmavaivarta purana, or any other purana whose english translations are freely available on the internet.

Anyways, my post (meant actually for renu and vgane) was not to raise anyone's heckles. All the same am not interested in making this site an encyclopedia for easy references. So no more laborious quotes in sanskrit with elaborate explanations from me.

To convince the indignant religious, the only way is perhaps to quote their own guru. So please refer to the book "Sankara and shanmata: souvenir published in connection with the Conference on Sankara and Shanmata held in Madras from June 1-June 9, 1969". This is what Shankara says in that book:

"Devi thereupon gathered the dirt off her body, and this mass assumed the form of a guard....[...]...A word about the origin of this divinity in Sakti's dirt: "Dirt and sweat" can only be the physical manifestation of her Illusory Self...."

Ofcourse one can create myriad allegories, similes, and come up with various explanations. But these will not help explain historical origins. If one is interested in historical origins, unfortunately one needs to cast off all emotions and approach a topic like performing a clinical dissection. If at all that area interests you, just some notes below:

Ganapatyas were divided into six sub-sects, according to the deity they worship, namely, Maha-Ganapati, Haridra Ganapati, Uchchhishta-Ganapati, Navanita-Ganapati, Svarna-Ganapati, and Santana-Ganapati.

One section of the Uchchhishta-Ganapatyas used to worship Heramba-Ganapati; and this particular group were considered "unclean Shaktas" because of their rituals. Going into these details may further raise the temperature here. So am not going into it. To associate something "unclean" as dirt off Shakti's skin, to explain the origin of a deity is not something new. Other deities too have humble origins.

 

[palindrome]

Dear RR ji,

This is not really an unknown version..I have read about this version when I was a teen.

The other version is where she makes Ganesh out of Sandal paste or Turmeric paste obtained from her own body and the 3rd version says she used the Turmeric paste prepared for her bath.


Beings coming out of "dirt" is nothing new in Puranas..after all even Lord Vishnus ear wax(dirt) gave rise to Madhu and Kaitabha.

Actually we do not have to take it the word dirt literally.

What is so called dirt is basically shed epithelial cells of the skin(epidermis)... epithelial cells contain DNA too..so we can say that the epithelial cells contained DNA of Parvati.

In crime scene investigation..cells shed from skin are more than enough to determine DNA of anyone.

May be ancients did not have a word to describe epithelial cells/DNA to lay men back then so they could only think of the word dirt.

Renu, writers of puranas and such like had no idea what is DNA. Before watson and crick we had some idea of heredity and genetic material thanks to the likes of mendal. All religious literature have a very vague idea "of something passed on from parent to child" -- such a concept exists in ancient literature across the world/cultures. None of them knew what are genes, what is DNA, and such stuff. We have come a long way since the discovery of watson and crick. To link such a scientific discovery to imaginative tales is no justice to the former at all. Just my opinion please.

 

[palindrome]

It appears that the root to such litter is the tribal thinking, rumor mongering and above all dishonesty to everything including self.

You can comment on the post. You can comment on the ideology. You have no right to comment on the person. If I were to post on dishonesty of the self of certain people here, i can imagine what will happen. At least informed readers who have been following this site for sometime (for insights on modern day tribal thinking), know what will happen -- i will be banned. Maybe that is what every single person (expect nara sir) on this site wants.

 

[prasad1]

Every Dhritarashtra needs a Gandhari. We know who gives 'likes' to which post.

I would not want anybody banned, but a radical among the cultured people of different faith has to tone down the criticism of the locals.

 

[Nara]

Every Dhritarashtra needs a Gandhari. We know who gives 'likes' to which post.

I would not want anybody banned, but a radical among the cultured people of different faith has to tone down the criticism of the locals.

Nobody is more local or less local here. The kind of culture people exhibit, recent examples here, here and here, does not give anyone, least of all those who so often drag the civility down, the right to tell others to tone down. All of us have the same right to speak what is in our mind, and if it happens to be the truth, and if it hurts, well one has to bear it.

 

[Raghy]

Every Dhritarashtra needs a Gandhari. We know who gives 'likes' to which post.

I would not want anybody banned, but a radical among the cultured people of different faith has to tone down the criticism of the locals.

Dear Sri. Prasad, Greetings.

Palindrome is right. I was told by my grandmother that Vinayaka was created by Parvathi from the 'sweat and dirt' from her skin. (She went to take a bath after placing him as the guard outside. Vinayaka denied entry to Lord Shiva.... thus the story goes. So, Parvathi did not create him while in the bathroom but well before she entered the bathroom).

Palindrome is a more devoted Hindu than many Hindus I came across. I know that very well. To say ' people of different faith' is not correct. It is also uncalled for.

Her criticism about the local is 100% correct. I have seen that many times in this forum. Some members are more than equal than other members ( that includes me too, I must add shamelessly). If you like, you may debate that point with her in PM to know her point of view.

Lastly, in this discussion Palindrome did not even get into any controversial topic.

Cheers!

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... To associate something "unclean" as dirt off Shakti's skin, to explain the origin of a deity is not something new. Other deities too have humble origins.

Thanks for enlightening me!

Even if dirt means the cells containing DNA of Parvathi Devi, I don't think it is a humble origin!!

 

[Nara]

Even if dirt means the cells containing DNA of Parvathi Devi, I don't think it is a humble origin!!

Dear Mrs. RR, one of the 18 points of difference between Vadakalai and Thenkalai SVs is about this dirt that has become such a point of contention. Thenkalais argue that Sriman Narayana so loves the jeevas that their sins are sweet to the Lord in just the same way dirt on the skin of a loved one is sweet to the lover, or that of a newborn calf that the mother cow licks off. Vadakalais object saying that the sins of jeevas are more like the dirt of a baby, and the Lord, like a mother, will cleanse the baby of all the dirt.

All this is quite amusing, so much argument about dirt!!!!

 

[palindrome]

Thanks for enlightening me!

Even if dirt means the cells containing DNA of Parvathi Devi, I don't think it is a humble origin!!

I don't think it has anything to do with DNA. Its just dirt. And there is nothing wrong with it. Just part of life. After death aren't we all just dust and part of dirt....Even Devi is not always depicted beautiful. Sometimes she is harsh representing death, Sometimes she assumes a grotesque physique with skull(s) in her hand or around her neck. Why? Because gross stuff too is part of life, in the cycle of death. Just depends on the attitude, i suppose.

 

[vgane]

Dear Sri. Prasad, Greetings.

Palindrome is right. I was told by my grandmother that Vinayaka was created by Parvathi from the 'sweat and dirt' from her skin. (She went to take a bath after placing him as the guard outside. Vinayaka denied entry to Lord Shiva.... thus the story goes. So, Parvathi did not create him while in the bathroom but well before she entered the bathroom).

Palindrome is a more devoted Hindu than many Hindus I came across. I know that very well. To say ' people of different faith' is not correct. It is also uncalled for.

Her criticism about the local is 100% correct. I have seen that many times in this forum. Some members are more than equal than other members ( that includes me too, I must add shamelessly). If you like, you may debate that point with her in PM to know her point of view.

Lastly, in this discussion Palindrome did not even get into any controversial topic.

Cheers!

Dear Raghiji,

Welcome back to the Forum!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghiji,

Welcome back to the Forum!

Dear Sri. Ganesan, Greetings.

Thank you for the warm message. I think I am only passing by. I may not participate on the regular basis; don't know yet.

Cheers!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Mrs. RR, one of the 18 points of difference between Vadakalai and Thenkalai SVs is about this dirt that has become such a point of contention. Thenkalais argue that Sriman Narayana so loves the jeevas that their sins are sweet to the Lord in just the same way dirt on the skin of a loved one is sweet to the lover, or that of a newborn calf that the mother cow licks off. Vadakalais object saying that the sins of jeevas are more like the dirt of a baby, and the Lord, like a mother, will cleanse the baby of all the dirt. ............

Dear Prof Sir,

I like the Vadakalais' explanation. If people believe that sins are sweet to the Lord, they will give more sweet to the Him!!

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Tmt RR

Pillaiyar / Ganesh / Ganapathi is generally known for His elephant face and pot belly.

Apparently, before the skirmish with His Father, Ganapathi had a human face - known as Aadhi Vinayakar

Attached herewith is the picture of "Aadhi Vinayakar" , taken at the Temple.



The Temple is 2 km from Koothanur [ Saraswati Devi Temple ] - 14 km from Tiruvarur while driving
towards Mayavaram [ Mayiladuthurai ].

Yay Yem