Rate or Race of Divorcees.

[renuka]

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hi renu..

oh Lah......calm down...cool down....

regards
tbs

Dear TBS,

I am not angry yaar .
My family we are very simple in approach.One day before my wedding we had a small bhajan and then few relatives came and they put for me red and green glass bangles and my parents put for me gold bangles and next day I got up and went for my wedding.Even Simantonayana for pregnancy we dont do.We just leave everything to God and pray sans rituals.

 

[sangom]

When the man-made law of the land permits divorce and people take to divorce in increasing numbers, disregarding whatever injunction is contained in the religious prescriptions, I think we should realize that the latter have become ineffective. The provision for divorce is well-used by some and misused in some cases too. Only the consequent societal changes over a generation or two can make some rethinking on this problem, IMO. So, AFA we are concerned, there is very little that can be done.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I read this article (in post 1) and ignored. Though the % increase is high, in absolute number it is not that alarming, considering the number of marriages.

Regarding divorce, I have the same question as Ravi: What is the guarantee that the next one would be compatible?" I go with the proverb"Known devil is better than unknown angel".

On a personal note, I must say my wife's endurance in the initial period has made a binding relationship for both of us now.

 

[sangom]

I read this article (in post 1) and ignored. Though the % increase is high, in absolute number it is not that alarming, considering the number of marriages.

Regarding divorce, I have the same question as Ravi: What is the guarantee that the next one would be compatible?" I go with the proverb"Known devil is better than unknown angel".

On a personal note, I must say my wife's endurance in the initial period has made a binding relationship for both of us now.

Dear Shri Siva,

The problem is exactly the "endurance" part and who - the husband or the wife - should show that. In the traditional marriages (I mean the old world system) it was an unwritten dictum that it is for the girl to endure all the troubles till the marriage starts proceeding on an even keel, but nowadays the girls as also their parents are not prepared for such patience and sacrifice. They want the boy (husband) to get trained to merge seamlessly into the wife's family, its ways and norms, customs and beliefs etc. Those boys and those parents of boys who accept this reality have very little problem and the marriage lasts; otherwise it breaks up, sooner or later.

In a recent marriage, the girl's people seem to have made clear all that they wanted for their daughter to be comfortable in the boy's house. The boy's father, an extremely frugal fellow, splurged some lakhs renovating his house, air-conditioning the bed-room for his son (and DIL), purchased a Honda car, bought new furniture worth about more than a lakh for the DIL's bed room and so on. Plus the gift for the nischayadaartham function from the boy's side was a golden "choker" of about 5 sovereigns and a diamond ring on Platinum

 

[kunjuppu]

to me, a good wife is a gift from god.

in an arranged marriage culture like ours, atleast till recently, most of us had no clue to the habits or behaviours of our spouse.

it was probably a bigger shock to the girls, to leave their home, and suddenly move with strange folks, based on a single function, from which there was no escape. they had to make do with what was available.

today the tables are turned somewhat. so i am reminded of this song of yesteryears...

Tamil MP3 Song Lyrics-Manmatha Leelai Tamil Cinema/Film/Movie Songs with Lyrics - Manaivi amaivathellam iraivan Song

 

[Nara]

... What is the guarantee that the next one would be compatible?

Siva, What I said was people are more important than the relationship. As you rightly observe, there is no guarantee the next relationship will be more compatible. But that is not a good reason to expect an individual to suffer in the present relationship.

" I go with the proverb"Known devil is better than unknown angel"....

This is the calculation each individual must get to make. If the marriage is not working, each spouse must weigh all the issues and come up with a course of action that works for them. There is no guarantee they will make the right decision. However, the right to make this decision free of coercive norm that dictates that relationship must always put ahead of the people is something that I am unable to agree or advocate.

Cheers!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Dear Shri Siva,

In a recent marriage, the girl's people seem to have made clear all that they wanted for their daughter to be comfortable in the boy's house. The boy's father, an extremely frugal fellow, splurged some lakhs renovating his house, air-conditioning the bed-room for his son (and DIL), purchased a Honda car, bought new furniture worth about more than a lakh for the DIL's bed room and so on. Plus the gift for the nischayadaartham function from the boy's side was a golden "choker" of about 5 sovereigns and a diamond ring on Platinum

I have two daughters and I now get an idea of how I should go about their marriage . They are still too young though.

 

[wrongan]

When we had combined family there were elders in the family who will bring up motherless or fatherless child as that of their family.Now we are not keeping our parents with us and When the young couple separates the child has to go to an orphanage .when their population explode the society will be the target.My humble request to the young couples 'If you are not sure of living with your partner at least for sufficient time please don't have children.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

When 2 people marry they have the commitment. Love is, IMO, is secondary though essential. It cannot be measured or limited. So also tolerance and commitment. In case of extremes everything is fair. But it is a question of intelligence to judge whether everything is extreme. In case of extremes the chosen spouses should curse themselves and they should certainly not trust their own judging power. No falling in love and rising with divorce are both impulsive reactions of an immatured mind.

 

[kunjuppu]

Iyya, hats off to you for this awesome post. So concise, yet so much zipped into it. I had to parse line by line, trying to understand it. Pray bear with my re my response. Thank you.

When 2 people marry they have the commitment. .

Absolutely! I presume you mean commitment to the marriage and together.

Love is, IMO, is secondary though essential. It cannot be measured or limited. .

Yes, it has been said so, that in our arranged marriage tradition, affection and mutual regard are more of the element present in a marriage. Love, if it happens, you are lucky. Otherwise don’t count on it.

So also tolerance and commitment. .

I think you mean, tolerance and commitment are needed in a marriage.

In case of extremes everything is fair. .

‘extreme’ of what? If extremes (whatever that is) happens, what is fair?

But it is a question of intelligence to judge whether everything is extreme. .

Now you are saying that one should not designate anything to be extreme, if one is intelligent?

In case of extremes the chosen spouses should curse themselves and they should certainly not trust their own judging power. .

I love the ‘curse’ part, but mrs K is going to be awfully upset if I curse her. Any murmur from me, and she gets the rolling pin ready. Not sure if mutual cursing would resolve any issues. What is there to prevent mutual physical blows. Since you say that they cannot ‘trust their own judging power’, do you mean, that they should call in a third party, to judge whose is a better cursor?

No falling in love and rising with divorce are both impulsive reactions of an immatured mind.

You are saying arranged marriage, even if a loveless one, is best. There is no ‘falling in love’ in arranged marriage and so are you implying only mature minds indulge in arranged marriages. Right?

Thank you.

 

[amala]

I love the ‘curse’ part, but mrs K is going to be awfully upset if I curse her. Any murmur from me, and she gets the rolling pin ready.

Omg not that rolling pin again!! I can't help remembering "a one" and "a two".

 

[biswa]

• Love is selfish and an illusion: one can never love another person, however close, like one loves his/her own self. Only when love transforms more and more into selfless love, where compassion, sympathy and empathy prevail rather than the ego, can love be long-lasting.

Ok, let me debate this point a bit. I am sure what Mr Saidevo says makes sense in the hubby/wifey context. However there is another kind of love which is selfless and which right from the get-go has the qualities mentioned above: the love between a parent and child. In all cultures, this is probably the purest form of love. It may even be possible to love one's child more than oneself.

Regarding a point made by Mr. Nara about relationships vs people in the relationships. I was just thinking, if I had a different person as a son, would I not love him equally? Similarly if I had a different father, would I not feel a similar respect/love for him. In general it appears, that there is a baseline of affection based on the relationship which is then qualified by the actual person at the other end of the relationship.

 

[amala]

biswa, especially considering kids are involved, it is better to end a loveless marriage.

Cheers!

Nara mama,

I agree with you in only to an extent. Because i know many people especially friends who have told me how hurt they were/are and how much they resent their parents for separating and breaking up their comfort unit that they call home. What would you say to that?

In the West they insist parents arguing, fighting, loveless marriage in unhealthy for kids but I would do wonder how much truth there is in that. Its not that our parents didn't argue.

Thats why I think Desi parents (pehaps not the current lot? dunno) are amazing. They sacrifice their love and opportunity to find new love for their children, by staying together however loveless, argumentative, war-zone their marriage is.

As an aside I'd like to add that western relationshiops become sooo complicated my god! Step dad, step mum, step siblings, half siblings, step grandparents. Where it does it end? or begin rather

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I have given my explanation in italic. [FONT=&quot]

Absolutely! I presume you mean commitment to the marriage and together.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yes commitment to remain married to each other and to be and carry on together.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes, it has been said so, that in our arranged marriage tradition, affection and mutual regard are more of the element present in a marriage. Love, if it happens, you are lucky. Otherwise don’t count on it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Love mostly will happen and rarely does not. It may happen after “marumahizhchchi”, after 10 years, after 20 years, after 25 years or at least around the time of parting or post-parting. The Nuhaththadi function signifies the above.[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think you mean, tolerance and commitment are needed in a marriage.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes. They are the essential ingredients of a successful marriage.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘extreme’ of what? If extremes (whatever that is) happens, what is fair?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is a bit off the old custom to stay together under any conditions. Extremes mean either of the spouses going beyond humanly possible tolerance limits when divorce becomes inevitable to avoid visit of law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now you are saying that one should not designate anything to be extreme, if one is intelligent?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many divorce cases occur just for silly reasons – silly becomes a bully for questionable mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I love the ‘curse’ part, but mrs K is going to be awfully upset if I curse her. Any murmur from me, and she gets the rolling pin ready. Not sure if mutual cursing would resolve any issues. What is there to prevent mutual physical blows. Since you say that they cannot ‘trust their own judging power’, do you mean, that they should call in a third party, to judge whose is a better cursor?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kunjappu sir, you must be very knotty. Curse themselves means you cannot curse Mrs K for your fate; curse one’s own self.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are saying arranged marriage, even if a loveless one, is best. There is no ‘falling in love’ in arranged marriage and so are you implying only mature minds indulge in arranged marriages. Right?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not necessarily. But in an arranged marriage everything is factored into it to become successful. If two minds are matured even a chosen marriage can become successful. Unless you are naturally endowed with, maturity comes out of experience through trials and triubulations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope I have not confused you more thoroughly. Have a good time with Mrs K.

[/FONT]

 

[amala]

Regarding a point made by Mr. Nara about relationships vs people in the relationships. I was just thinking, if I had a different person as a son, would I not love him equally? Similarly if I had a different father, would I not feel a similar respect/love for him. In general it appears, that there is a baseline of affection based on the relationship which is then qualified by the actual person at the other end of the relationship.

I don't think it works with father vs son. its more about husband and wife. The person is more important than the relationship in the sense that if someone (husband/wife) is very unhappy and suffering in that marriage, isn't it better for him/her to opt out? Rather than continue to stay married and suffer and be unhappy daily, because the relationship (marriage) is more important. I think thats what Nara mama is saying.

 

[nachi naga]

as a person undergoing a break up,i am so taken aback for the lack of understanding.divorce is an excruciating agony but its a cancer which has to be remedied.relationship sours nobody is happy meaning husband and wife.better to end the relationship than giving cock and bull excuse for the sake of kids,you need to continue.after 20 years i feel very hurt but we got to move on with life.sarvam kalvidham brahman.

 

[Nara]

....Thats why I think Desi parents (pehaps not the current lot? dunno) are amazing. They sacrifice their love and opportunity to find new love for their children, by staying together however loveless, argumentative, war-zone their marriage is.

Dear Amala, divorce is serious business, not many in the west take it lightly, there may be a few Britney Spears, but you will find such extremes even in the East. I agree that it is less common in the west for people to stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids, but whether it is rare, I am not sure.

BTW, I was responding to the question which is better specially with kids involved (a) Indian culture: Divorce bad, marriage at any cost good, or (b) Western culture: Loveless marriage bad, divorce better. Perhaps I should have said it depends, as I feel the cost benefit is unique for each circumstance.

A single-mom family, or a loving family with step-father is a better environment for the kids than one in which there is no communication or love. But, I agree, I can't say for sure that it is always better to end a loveless marriage without any concern for the kids.

One more point, in the west people have this choice, to consider the pros and cons critically. However, in the east, for the most part, this is not an option at all. In a practical sense most women don't have the option of divorce.

Regarding a point made by Mr. Nara about relationships vs people in the relationships. I was just thinking, if I had a different person as a son, would I not love him equally?

Yes biswa, you would, but then you would still be loving the person, not the relationship. I think if we elevate the "relationship" to a higher level of importance, above the person, then there is a danger of getting stuck with externally defined norms and expectations of the given relationship which could very easily descend into disappointments, recrimination, guilt etc. I may not be very articulate with what I am trying to convey, but I think there is an important difference.

Cheers!

 

[amala]

hi renu ...Lah

Heheh TBSgaru emi lah meeru?? Kaavalne ala raastharaa? Thappu ga raasthaaru. Nenu meeku nerpisthaanulah Malay. Emi cheptaaru?

 

[C RAVI]

I don't think it works with father vs son. its more about husband and wife. The person is more important than the relationship in the sense that if someone (husband/wife) is very unhappy and suffering in that marriage, isn't it better for him/her to opt out? Rather than continue to stay married and suffer and be unhappy daily, because the relationship (marriage) is more important. I think thats what Nara mama is saying.

Its hard to say that we are happy and its easy to say that we are not happy...Problem solving with mutual love, care, considerations etc are the must backed up with family values and belief, to help ourself as much as possible to sustain marriage and prevail peace and happiness in the family. Good for the couples and for their children.

divorce can be opted, if the situation is absolutely worst and one of the spouse has gone insane or something that he/she not even can give a second thought to evaluate and decide in a mature way.

 

[kunjuppu]

as a person undergoing a break up,i am so taken aback for the lack of understanding.divorce is an excruciating agony but its a cancer which has to be remedied.relationship sours nobody is happy meaning husband and wife.better to end the relationship than giving cock and bull excuse for the sake of kids,you need to continue.after 20 years i feel very hurt but we got to move on with life.sarvam kalvidham brahman.

so sorry to hear this nachi. pray you come out of this as a whole, with hope and strength to start anew. God Bless.

 

[kunjuppu]

iyya,

your post #39

thank you for your details.

it is applicable if you can live with certain rules. certain abuses and hurts are so consistent, that a home is more a hell. i presume that you have not witnessed such instances.

i pray that you do not have to, especially for a loved one. believe me, for most divorces, the incompatibility is so great that short of killing each other, the mental and (sometimes) physical abuses abound to drive one mad.

divorce may not be the best alternative, but living together hurting constantly, is worse. i think so.

 

[C RAVI]

iyya,

your post #39

thank you for your details.

it is applicable if you can live with certain rules. certain abuses and hurts are so consistent, that a home is more a hell. i presume that you have not witnessed such instances.

i pray that you do not have to, especially for a loved one. believe me, for most divorces, the incompatibility is so great that short of killing each other, the mental and (sometimes) physical abuses abound to drive one mad.

divorce may not be the best alternative, but living together hurting constantly, is worse. i think so.

Shri Kunjuppu,

I may be wrong, but I feel that you are not much aware of present generation Divorce reasons..

There are more than 650 divorce cases in family courts in TN itself every year and mostly due to ego clashes, suspeciousness and to many friendships to the maximum limits with opposite sex of the newly married couples. There are many peculiar cases where couples were once lovers for a year or more, got married and filed divorce within 3 months of marriage..And most of the divorces are between the couples working in IT firms and BPO's

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Reference Post no.41& 46
My sympathies are with a poor man who is living separately from his legally wedded wife for the past 17 years.His attempts to get a divorce
from his estranged wife has been unsuccessful from the lowest court to the Highest court.Even his latest appeal to the Supreme court of India
to review their earlier judgment and grant him divorce so that he can marry another lady and lead a married life on the plea that every person should have a fundamental right to lead a married life has been rejected by the Highest Court in INDIA.The saddest part of the judgement
was a remark by the Bench that it is the 'Fate' of that person to remain single after having separated from his wife 17 years before.
I do not know why the wife refuses to stay with her husband and also unwilling for the divorce.
It is really funny that another community in India(Andhra Pradesh) belonging to stone cutters group(who also come under Hindu Faith) follow
a custom where the divorce between husband and wife is very easy (without any legal hurdles)and their community approves such a custom.
This happened to the servant maid who was working with us when we were in Hyderabad city.The girl was married by their family within their community to a boy staying in a rural area.The girl was unwilling to go to the rural area to join her husband and asked him to come to the city which he refused.Then the girl wrote a letter to the boy to marry some other girl.She told us that once she had written such a letter,her husband cannot claim her to be his wife and will never interfere in her life.The girl also looses her right to call him as her husband.The community recognizes such an arrangement.
What a simple convention among the illiterate community who are mainly daily wage earners.

 

[kunjuppu]

Shri Kunjuppu,

I may be wrong, but I feel that you are not much aware of present generation Divorce reasons..

There are more than 650 divorce cases in family courts in TN itself every year and mostly due to ego clashes, suspeciousness and to many friendships to the maximum limits with opposite sex of the newly married couples. There are many peculiar cases where couples were once lovers for a year or more, got married and filed divorce within 3 months of marriage..And most of the divorces are between the couples working in IT firms and BPO's

ravi,

please read B Krishnamurthi's (#48) and nachi naga's (#41) posts here.

i think, you are sufficiently and more, understanding, that there exists a lot more in this world, that what we are exposed to, and what we can comprehend.

you are single, and if i am not wrong, yet to live on close quarters with a female, in a conjugal relationship. your world of relationships is an ideal world, and i do wish, that these remain true and steadfast.

the realities, experienced through BK & nachi, i have several times, in my circle of friends and family. the best thing, i think, to do, in those circumstances, is to shun aside discordant values, and stick with the loved ones we know. for god knows, how much support and succour these need in those times of suffering and maybe social outcast (if in india).

here in the forum, we have love marriages - i presume, renu, Yamaka and others...they took a big step to break from tradition, to take ownership of probably the one key process/function/celebration in our life, that could be within our own control. these have, from what we gather,withstood the test of time.

thank yous...

 

[renuka]

as a person undergoing a break up,i am so taken aback for the lack of understanding.divorce is an excruciating agony but its a cancer which has to be remedied.relationship sours nobody is happy meaning husband and wife.better to end the relationship than giving cock and bull excuse for the sake of kids,you need to continue.after 20 years i feel very hurt but we got to move on with life.sarvam kalvidham brahman.

Dear Nachi Naga,

Sometimes some people come into our life with the reasons best known to God.
Sometimes our spouses can be Karmic Partners of the Debt Kind where we had an unfinished "account" in a previous birth and once the "account" is settled we just move on.This is what I read before.

Take care.Be happy.Remember Baba is always with you.I will be in Putatparthi next month and I will pray for God to give you happiness best suited for you.

Lots of Love
Renu