Reservation for Brahmins

[Nara]

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.... A poor Brahmin has nowhere to turn.

The poor brahmin must ditch his/her caste and inter-marry with BC and SC. Given that caste for the purpose of reservation is determined by the father, at least in cases where the father is BC/SC, the children will benefit. There is an adage, if you can't win them, join them.

Good or bad, caste meant something 50 or 60 years ago. Today, what purpose does caste serve except to divide all of us and pit one group against another? The BCs are dominant and they are not going to give it up because some poor rural brahmins are suffering. The SCs are still kept down by the BCs and couldn't care less for Brahmins of any kind as they see Brahmins as the root cause of their suffering.

The villages were emptied of Brahmins when they saw what was coming with land reforms. Those who migrated away from villages are thriving in one way or another. The ones left behind are poor and they eke out a living. Their lot is no different from desperately poor BC or SC in that village. The poor rural brahmin has more in common with them than a college educated brahmin boy or girl.

From what I have observed I see that the urban college educated brahmin youth don't see caste the same way the older people do. More and more of them are ditching their caste identity. I expect dramatic shift in caste outlook among the educated brahmins. That would leave only the poor rural brahmin to carry this albatross around their neck. Why should they bear this burden on behalf of the urban brahmins for whom brahmin life is not very much more than degree coffee and sambar, rasam, and thayir saadam?

However, given the centuries old prejudices that are especially strong in villages, what I suggest is very unlikely to happen. But, equally, or even more, unlikely are the prospects for securing reservation for Brahmins, or caroling brahmins into electoral districts to gain political influence and so on. Compared to these approaches, ditching caste is not only more likely to happen, it is the right thing to do as well.

Cheers!

 

[NSP]

Leadership crisis

No sir. Brahmins are desperate to innovate something new while others happily make wealth with a perfected revenue models (Eg., we will not sit in a shop to do a business. Isn't it?). It is because that we want others to believe us as knowledgeable. Both the King and the peasant consulted Brahmins in olden days and thus he has to innovate something like Almanac out of necessity. Today he is desperate to impress others and thus he isolates himself for a unique identity. All his innovations are only for showing himself as a different breed. This desperation is not necessary. He can also demand minority status / reservation etc and live with advantage like any other Indian. Instead he is getting diluted by way of emigration and immigration without any binding forces as root to hold the diaspora.

A simple understanding will do magic. Both the King and the peasant came to Brahmin not because he was above all of them. It is because they wanted the Brahmin to be between them. That in fact is the status of a Brahmin. He was in temple because everyone can command him using his compatibility! That in fact is the status of an advocate, auditor and also a manager in the corporate world. Now everyone feels that they can be an auditor, advocate or a manger. Brahmins have lost their advantage thinking they can migrate and do magic. Again now all the other community groups have started migrating. Brahmins came with IT route for their niche. Now IT is everybody's cup of tea. If Brahmins can keep their advantage to them, they can even gain globally power as big as that of jews. But that is not happening for community pride is missing amongst the Brahmins overshadowed by false individual pride. They are the first to be in any field but never attain that much convented number one status. That invariably goes to the communities that emulate Brahmins of yesterday by today!

The worst are the people who are in the age group of 50 and above now. This generation has sold the dignity of Brahmins and are much removed from the reality of today. Unfortunate thing is that none in this group are able to project themselves as a acceptable leader to the younger generations. Just one leader can make a magical difference. But where is he or she?

She...!!! Can any of you tell one Tamil Brahmin lady with proven stuff who has not got married to men of another community. Most of them portray themselves as 'Selvis' in public when the public in fact know the true story. This is how the desperation works with women.

Dear NSP,

Do you mean to say that though Brahmins were pioneers in many sensitive and important fields, they failed to retain that 'numero uno' status, which made them watch helplessly many others surpassing them?

 

[nachi naga]

Reservation is a means for our livelihood but this is not possible as We lack the votes. we are not in significant number in any constituency. Let us not waste our time in pursuing this objective. I live in Pune and know number of Maharashtrian brahmins who are enterpreneurs.They are doing well and have also not sacrificed any aspect of their culture. They should be our role models. Let us not look to Governement but to ourselves.
The second lesson comes from Kutchis- Gujarathis from Kutch. They live in a sparsely populated dry patch and have no resources. But, there are Kutch Institutions in Mumbai which support their young boys with money and guidance so that they become succesful. we have so many rich persons in our community. why don't they start a trust which will help our poor brethren?
It is for us to think and do something constructive.

i second this thot.this website has started to mingle with singles to make it doubles

so its possible to unite and prosper as tamrahms

 

[nachi naga]

She...!!! Can any of you tell one Tamil Brahmin lady with proven stuff who has not got married to men of another [COLOR=#5ea0c3 !important][COLOR=#5ea0c3 !important]community[/COLOR][/COLOR]

. Most of them portray themselves as 'Selvis' in public when the public in fact know the true story. This is how the desperation works with women.

is this selvi dr.jj?

she hates brahmins more than anybody can think off,as her actions speaks louder than her words.she is a politician now,tambrahms are minority status but yet forward community????justice has no meaning in tn.she needs to survive,and she is surviving well,without us,at least let her be happy like a gundu pushnikkai

 

[Iyest]

The poor brahmin must ditch his/her caste and inter-marry with BC and SC.

This attitude will put even the Mohammed Ghaznis and Hitlers of the world to shame. I think (at least some) Brahmins value their culture and way of life and will not sell themselves for a college seat or a government job.

Given that caste for the purpose of reservation is determined by the father, at least in cases where the father is BC/SC, the children will benefit. There is an adage, if you can't win them, join them.

True. A few months back I ran into one of my friends who has married a white Canadian (living a brahmin life, vegetarian etc) but settled in TN. His son is now in year 12. When he enquired he was told that he needed to state the 'caste' of both parents of the applicant on the form. And that his son would be classified as a FC even though he was born in Canada and is a citizen by birth of that country.

Good or bad, caste meant something 50 or 60 years ago. Today, what purpose does caste serve except to divide all of us and pit one group against another?

These arguments are ALWAYS directed at Brahmins. Never at the rest such as the BC and SC. After all, those castes are 95% of the population and it is only they who can validate your theory. Tell them that caste serves no purpose and that reservation based on caste serves no purpose as well. I doubt whether anybody will dare to say that to other castes for fear of life and limb.

The BCs are dominant and they are not going to give it up because some poor rural brahmins are suffering.

So now caste divisions are justified! 'Might is right' is the law of the jungle. It is more human to help the poor. In that sense we must be gratified that when the Brahmins were dominant at the time of independence, they did not think in terms of domination. Even C.P.Ramaswamy Iyers suggestion of a separate Brahmin state was rejected by other Brahmins, though in hindsight it would have been good for the community in many ways.

The SCs are still kept down by the BCs and couldn't care less for Brahmins of any kind as they see Brahmins as the root cause of their suffering. !

Propaganda is a powerful tool. When many Brahmins today themselves believe that they are the cause of all the ills, it is no surprise that the SC feel that way now. But it is possible that with greater knowledge and education they too will see through the propaganda in the future.

The ones left behind are poor and they eke out a living. Their lot is no different from desperately poor BC or SC in that village. The poor rural brahmin has more in common with them than a college educated brahmin boy or girl.

Your view is extremely narrow and limited to economics. At the social and cultural levels, the poor brahmin will still have more in common with a wealthy urban brahmin who has not foresaken his roots.

From what I have observed I see that the urban college educated brahmin youth don't see caste the same way the older people do. More and more of them are ditching their caste identity.!

True to some extent, though not every brahmin is ditching his caste. That again is a comment on the kind of education being given today, the upbringing of children by their parents, and the power of propaganda.

However, given the centuries old prejudices that are especially strong in villages, what I suggest is very unlikely to happen. But, equally, or even more, unlikely are the prospects for securing reservation for Brahmins, or caroling brahmins into electoral districts to gain political influence and so on. Compared to these approaches, ditching caste is not only more likely to happen, it is the right thing to do as well.

Time does not stand still and the events of the last four decades prove otherwise. By far, migration seems to be the self preservative response so far. Large numbers of Brahmins have gone abroad, many have settled there for good and (surprise!) large numbers still maintain their culture to a great extent. So too in the case of those who have settled in other states. As for what is 'right', I think it is best left to the concerned people instead of glibly suggesting something that centuries of muslim and british rule was not able to achieve.

 

[nachi naga]

This attitude will put even the Mohammed Ghaznis and Hitlers of the world to shame. I think (at least some) Brahmins value their culture and way of life and will not sell themselves for a college seat or a government job.




True. A few months back I ran into one of my friends who has married a white Canadian (living a brahmin life, vegetarian etc) but settled in TN. His son is now in year 12. When he enquired he was told that he needed to state the 'caste' of both parents of the applicant on the form. And that his son would be classified as a FC even though he was born in Canada and is a citizen by birth of that country.



These arguments are ALWAYS directed at Brahmins. Never at the rest such as the BC and SC. After all, those castes are 95% of the population and it is only they who can validate your theory. Tell them that caste serves no purpose and that reservation based on caste serves no purpose as well. I doubt whether anybody will dare to say that to other castes for fear of life and limb.



So now caste divisions are justified! 'Might is right' is the law of the jungle. It is more human to help the poor. In that sense we must be gratified that when the Brahmins were dominant at the time of independence, they did not think in terms of domination. Even C.P.Ramaswamy Iyers suggestion of a separate Brahmin state was rejected by other Brahmins, though in hindsight it would have been good for the community in many ways.



Propaganda is a powerful tool. When many Brahmins today themselves believe that they are the cause of all the ills, it is no surprise that the SC feel that way now. But it is possible that with greater knowledge and education they too will see through the propaganda in the future.




Your view is extremely narrow and limited to economics. At the social and cultural levels, the poor brahmin will still have more in common with a wealthy urban brahmin who has not foresaken his roots.



True to some extent, though not every brahmin is ditching his caste. That again is a comment on the kind of education being given today, the upbringing of children by their parents, and the power of propaganda.




Time does not stand still and the events of the last four decades prove otherwise. By far, migration seems to be the self preservative response so far. Large numbers of Brahmins have gone abroad, many have settled there for good and (surprise!) large numbers still maintain their culture to a great extent. So too in the case of those who have settled in other states. As for what is 'right', I think it is best left to the concerned people instead of glibly suggesting something that centuries of muslim and british rule was not able to achieve.

one of the best response from you sir.

take nara for example.he lives in usa and is a american citizen.america for all practical purposes is a abrahamic faith ruled country,which is again born from sanathana dharma only which is parent religion,only.technically hindus rule usa in congress,house and white house,as per my theory,with an ishta devata lord jesus christ.

even from an american to write about indian preservation is acceptable to me,as we live in one earth.these borders are maya.can anyone say,the pancha bhoothas are indian,american,russian...etc.

tamil brahmins have been marginalised in tamizh naadu.brahmin is one who knows brahman.tamizh is one who knows tamizh.

 

[NSP]

Degeneration

is this selvi dr.jj?

she hates brahmins more than anybody can think off,as her actions speaks louder than her words.she is a politician now,tambrahms are minority status but yet forward community????justice has no meaning in tn.she needs to survive,and she is surviving well,without us,at least let her be happy like a gundu pushnikkai

There are Selvis with PhD for their Dr. and there are Selvis without PhD as well. There are also Selvis without Dr. title. Look everywhere sir and you cannot recollect one high profile Brahmin marriage that is purely a marriage between Brahmins in the last couple of decade. Brahmins are not going to be benefited by Reservation for Women for they are loosing their women resource to other communities. This is not migration. This is degeneration.

 

[nachi naga]

There are Selvis with PhD for their Dr. and there are Selvis without PhD as well. There are also Selvis without Dr. title. Look everywhere sir and you cannot recollect one high profile Brahmin marriage that is purely a marriage between Brahmins in the last couple of decade. Brahmins are not going to be benefited by Reservation for Women for they are loosing their women resource to other communities. This is not migration. This is degeneration.

nsp

brahmin is one who knows brahman.so according to me,marriages are taking place purely between brahmins also.if,women want to categorise themselves as other than as brahmins then its their prerogative.men as brahmins need to figure out why women prefer wedlock out of brahmin community into other communities.its the men who need to take initiative and alter their standards accordingly,as i personally feel,women have done more than their share of maintaining amity and peace in society worldover.

 

[NSP]

Where is the answer?

There is no denial about women's contribution. On one hand we are proud that we are a community of progressive thinkers. The flip side of it is that we are degenerating as a community by loosing our root. The fact that Brahmins are only just over half a percentage of population in Tamilnadu, that too comprising predominantly only the older generation chating online with the migrated younger generation is the point of worry that we have to address. There is no use in talking about our achievements for it is time to stem the rot. What is going to be the contributions from our women folk on this? What can we expect from Corporate Brahmins for this? What the Brahmin associations should do now? How can we help Sankaracharya of Kanchi to break his silence? It is unfortunate that there is no practical suggestions on all this nagging issues.

nsp

brahmin is one who knows brahman.so according to me,marriages are taking place purely between brahmins also.if,women want to categorise themselves as other than as brahmins then its their prerogative.men as brahmins need to figure out why women prefer wedlock out of brahmin community into other communities.its the men who need to take initiative and alter their standards accordingly,as i personally feel,women have done more than their share of maintaining amity and peace in society worldover.

 

[RAMASJM]

The system of Reservation is bad but the objective behind it (explicitly stated) are not bad. There are alternatives to it and I got one after I posted this thread to my contacts. One of the response received was quiet interesting. It is as follows

______________________________________________________________
I am personally against Reservation. It should be the merit that should be valued. Of course the disadvantaged in the society should be given some support. But it is not by way of Reservation.

It is said that there is no better alternative than the present Reservation System to empower those who are under-privileged under our Constitution. But I see several alternatives and strongly feel that this forum should initiate discussion on such alternatives. For example to empower women in society.....

alternative 1: Every vote polled by a women candidate will be given weightage of 1.5 or 2 or whatever deemed as necessary. If it is 1.5 then in an election in which a male candidate has secured 1500 votes will be declared elected only if a women candidate contesting him has not secured 1000 or more vote. If the preference is for 33%, equivalent weightage can be 1.33. By this scheme all parties will be encouraged to field a women candidate.

alternative 2 : If we have to empower the voter directly than to facilitate the candidates, we can say that a vote cast by a women will attract additional weightage. This is possible for our election booths have clear segregation for women and men voters by way of separate queues. It will be differently programmed voting machine by this scheme for women voters.

There are also several other alternatives possible But these two alternatives have significant benefit that will end all the evils of present Reservation schemes. It may sound that this is against 'uniform adult franchisee'. But it is not so. These schemes can also be extended to Reservation for SCs & STs. This alternative will be flexible and all the apprehension expressed by Yadav trios and Mamta didi on Reservation will have a good solution in this. Eventually this scheme can also generate a scale to measure the real backwardness of the community.

Women will also be contesting against men and winning them here. What is the use of contest between women for empowering women?

_________________________________________________________________________

Is it possible for Brahmins to gain such ethically correct advantages?

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Roman in Rome

Yes. There are several good alternatives that could have been tried instead of Reservation. But now it is time to be a Roman in Rome. Reservation has come in to practice in India and thus we have to demand Reservation.

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

Govt jobs have not dried up!

sir, About 3000 Lecturers are appointed to colleges by the present Government and there are some Brahmins (should be less than 10) in it. But the truth is that they earned their position through some dubious means (ofcourse they had qualification and experience ... but!!). Why should someone help such people. That too Brahmins!!!

The ground reality in Tamilnadu has to be understood. An association filing a Writ in the High Court alone has got greater chance to be admitted. Therefore an association is required to comply with formalities.

An Ideal Brahmin is non existent now. This fact has to be accepted by any association and therefore the association has to endure the imperfections now and should envisage for Ideals only in the long run.

When Brahmins live in the myth that Government jobs have dried up, thousands of appointments are happening by every day in Tamilnadu. Teachers' Recruitment Board has again called for 1000 teaching positions in various colleges. Any Brahmin applying for it?

 

[Iyest]

When Brahmins live in the myth that Government jobs have dried up, thousands of appointments are happening by every day in Tamilnadu. Teachers' Recruitment Board has again called for 1000 teaching positions in various colleges. Any Brahmin applying for it?

Useful informaion for job seekers. In fact, this site should have a category called Job Opportunities where jobs available to the OC category can be posted. As well as private sector job openings.

 

[RKB]

Welcome back

Useful informaion for job seekers. In fact, this site should have a category called Job Opportunities where jobs available to the OC category can be posted. As well as private sector job openings.

Those who are 56 of age can also apply. But just two more days remain for close of application sale. Those living abroad and intending to return back has got a good chance.

 

[Iyest]

Those who are 56 of age can also apply. But just two more days remain for close of application sale. Those living abroad and intending to return back has got a good chance.

Is there any link? Some would find that very useful.

Not sure why you feel aged 'phoren' returned people have a good chance. :suspicious:
It should not discourage local applicants.

 

[RKB]

Teachers Recruitment Board

Is there any link? Some would find that very useful.

Not sure why you feel aged 'phoren' returned people have a good chance. :suspicious:
It should not discourage local applicants.

Google 'Teachers Recruitment Board' and you will get. It is something like trb.tn.nic.in

 

[kunjuppu]

Tamil Nadu: Ramadoss back to caste politics

this is a recent item on the pmk youth session.

apparently, pmk and its parent org vanniyar sangham, publishes the vanniyar community share of government positions + colleges, compared to its percentage of the population.

the arguement is that vanniyars too own the land, and have a right to the fruits as befitting their population weight.

of late, we have folks here wanting reservations for brahmins. assuming that we are 3% of tamil nadu, do we have 3% representation now? my gut feeling is that we are more, but i may be wrong.

also, i have another gut feeling, that for want of rapid promotion, we shun the government service except for ias and such like.

 

[Iyest]

Tamil Nadu: Ramadoss back to caste politics

this is a recent item on the pmk youth session.

apparently, pmk and its parent org vanniyar sangham, publishes the vanniyar community share of government positions + colleges, compared to its percentage of the population.

the arguement is that vanniyars too own the land, and have a right to the fruits as befitting their population weight.

of late, we have folks here wanting reservations for brahmins. assuming that we are 3% of tamil nadu, do we have 3% representation now? my gut feeling is that we are more, but i may be wrong.

also, i have another gut feeling, that for want of rapid promotion, we shun the government service except for ias and such like.

Given the high percentage of reservation in all government services and the bribes to be paid (1 lakh for a bus driver job) even if one qualifies in the OC category, it is not surprising at all that govt. service is shunned. Forget representation, the basic issue for Brahmins in TN is that they (the poor) get no support from the government on any matter. This raises an interesting question. What is the percentage of taxes paid by Brahmins? I would guess that it would be closer in the range of 7-10% of revenues. No matter what the percentage is, for how long will the community pay taxes in return for nothing at best, humiliation at worst? Other communities demand proportional representation and more privileges but they never indicate how much they contribute in tax revenue.

 

[RKB]

Street Smart Brahmin

Given the high percentage of reservation in all government services and the bribes to be paid (1 lakh for a bus driver job) even if one qualifies in the OC category, it is not surprising at all that govt. service is shunned. Forget representation, the basic issue for Brahmins in TN is that they (the poor) get no support from the government on any matter. This raises an interesting question. What is the percentage of taxes paid by Brahmins? I would guess that it would be closer in the range of 7-10% of revenues. No matter what the percentage is, for how long will the community pay taxes in return for nothing at best, humiliation at worst? Other communities demand proportional representation and more privileges but they never indicate how much they contribute in tax revenue.

The type of Brahmins like IPL / India Cements Srinivasan who pay tax get much more than what they deserve for the tax they pay. The unfortunate thing is that none of the Brahmins remain now in the much coveted 'middle man' position by which they can get for one the job they deserve in Government services for the service charges (yes, the bribe!). This is the street smartness and we need some with this smartness.

 

[Iyest]

The type of Brahmins like IPL / India Cements Srinivasan who pay tax get much more than what they deserve for the tax they pay. The unfortunate thing is that none of the Brahmins remain now in the much coveted 'middle man' position by which they can get for one the job they deserve in Government services for the service charges (yes, the bribe!). This is the street smartness and we need some with this smartness.

I don't think we want to bribe our way to government jobs. In any case, the poor brahmins are not in a position to come up with bribes demanded.

 

[RVR]

Tamil Nadu: Ramadoss back to caste politics

this is a recent item on the pmk youth session.

apparently, pmk and its parent org vanniyar sangham, publishes the vanniyar community share of government positions + colleges, compared to its percentage of the population.

the arguement is that vanniyars too own the land, and have a right to the fruits as befitting their population weight.

of late, we have folks here wanting reservations for brahmins. assuming that we are 3% of tamil nadu, do we have 3% representation now? my gut feeling is that we are more, but i may be wrong.

also, i have another gut feeling, that for want of rapid promotion, we shun the government service except for ias and such like.

Kunjuppu ji,

Right from early seventies our community stopped aspiring for direct Government jobs particularly in the state Government. May be situation in Central Government was different those days. However our community started concentrating Public Sector jobs of Central Governments in a big way.

Class I services like IAS, IPS were different even those days since people can opt for some other state or central government service after the qualification.

Gradually people were migrating to Audit/Accountancy profession right from the early seventies.

This was the case till late eighties.

However after the VP Singh Government introduced Mandal commission recommendations around 1989 or so, even the Central Government jobs were shunned by our community deliberately. However central public sector jobs continued its attraction but now even that is not at all carry any glamor.

After liberalisation, the private sector has become a very attractive proposition for our community. Openings in IT/BPO/Call Center and financial fields have become so attractive, people are not at all looking for any Government job or public sector job.

These private sector jobs are also used as vehicles to move out of the country which our community prefers.

Let anybody talk about reservation or anything. But at field level our community is taking appropriate decisions based on ground level circumstances. One thing which come out now that majority of the decisions seems to be in the right direction.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

Let anybody talk about reservation or anything. But at field level our community is taking appropriate decisions based on ground level circumstances. One thing which come out now that majority of the people who take decisions are seems to be in the right direction.

All the best

... rvr,

i love that word 'field level'.

i think the right word, for our community to respond to challenges, is not at a community level, but at a 'feild level'. excellent term.

when you glance back at the past 100 years, each time there is a hole in the dyke, our folks have found that hole, and used it to their advantage

initially one or two does it. words of mouth gets through to the others. there is no organized frenzy but an informal mass exodus to new opportunities.

that is why, i am always confused, when folks here demand reservation for tamil brahmins. for other brahmins in other states, it may be legitimate. for us, do we care?

 

[Nara]

... ..
when you glance back at the past 100 years, each time there is a hole in the dyke, our folks have found that hole, and used it to their advantage

that is why, i am always confused, when folks here demand reservation for tamil brahmins. for other brahmins in other states, it may be legitimate. for us, do we care?

This is consistent with what I have observed. Whenever lucrative opportunities were available TBs were the first to take advantage, never hesitating to modify their traditional ways. Some call this cultural capital. Of course there is always the lament that tradition is being lost. But, all of this is never enough to stop complaining about what is now not available, a sort of victimhood psychosis.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

Reservation for Tamizh Brahmin's must start with right earnest,so that future generation of Tambrahms can have a foothold in society,and a place of honor in Tamizh Nadu.

 

[Iyest]

... rvr,

when you glance back at the past 100 years, each time there is a hole in the dyke, our folks have found that hole, and used it to their advantage ?

that is why, i am always confused, when folks here demand reservation for tamil brahmins. for other brahmins in other states, it may be legitimate. for us, do we care?

It is true that many have found a way out and survive. This however applies by and large to urban folks and cannot be generalized to everyone. We, the urbanities, don't care about reservation for two reasons. We know it will simply not happen and realize it is a waste of time and energy to demand for it. Secondly we would rather spend our energy in migrating abroad or to an urban centre in the country. That however does not mean 'we', should not care. In my long lifetime, I have seen too many poor priest families struggling to make ends meet, families with physically or mentally challenged youngsters, families that have lost an earning member prematurely etc. For such folks reservation is the only salvation if it ever arrives. At least the rest of the community can make an effort to help them. Instead of glibly assuming that everyone has the means and ability to prosper in any hostile environment. :nono: