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Reservation for Brahmins

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Dear Kunjuppu Ji...

Only today I read what you thought of me....I never really knew I left this impression on you..anyway I accept it as a complement..

actually its not too hard to think the way I do..I keep reminding myself.."What am I going to take when I die?..Its nothing..so why focus too much on what is not even mine to start with ?"

dear kunjuppu...

this song is for you..

YouTube - Jai Radha Madhav, Jai Kunj Bihari, Jai Gopi Jan Walabh by Jagjit Singh
 
Why do we need reservation? We should have a belief on our strengths to grow and we should help others to grow.

Of course, I agree we might require some sort of support to grow. But, that is not in the way through reservation quota.

I agree with Renukakarthikeyan's thought.

Well, one can't force anything on anyone.

Ethu indru unnudaiyatho athu nalai matraruvarudaiyagirathu
Marunaal athu veroruvarudai- yathagum Inda Matram ulaga neethiyagum

Unudaiyathu ethai elandai,etharkaga nee alugurai
Ethu kondu vanthai athai nee elakirai
Ethai nee padaithirukirai athai veenakavatharku
Ethai nee eduthukondayo athu ingiranthu edukapatathu
Ethai koduthayo athu ingiranthu kodukapatathu
-Lord Sri Krishna-
 
Sri.RKB said:-

What is stated to have happened in the class room is happening to all the Indians in Australia. America is also not going to acknowledge the superiority of TBs in any future. TBs should never justify their migration happening out of their desperation.

Sri.RKB, Greetings. What is happening to all the Indians in Australia? In our household, everyone of us attended school in OZ, including me. I never felt neglected; our children are actually in demand. Our son completed his high school long back; still hangs out with his high school friends.

What do you mean when you said 'America is also not going to acknowledge the superiority of TBs in any future'? I honestly don't think there ever was any superiority of TB at any time; fortunately, I never deluded myself with such ideas.

There is no need to justify anyone's migration. It is not a shameful act. Migration is not running away. One should have so much courage and perseverance to migrate and succeed.

Cheers!
 
..
What is stated to have happened in the class room is happening to all the Indians in Australia. America is also not going to acknowledge the superiority of TBs in any future. TBs should never justify their migration happening out of their desperation.

RKB,

i have highlighted re the superiority of TBs.

i have heard this supposed superiority mentioned at various times in other posts. i have to confess, that this sense of purported superiority might have been cultivated within me, if not from my parents, atleast from the brahmin society that i moved with in madras of the mid 20th century.

many many moons have passed since. i am older, and yet no wiser today to appreciate our superiority. if at all anything, i am only awed by the discoveries and developments, within india and without, thanks to no TB participation.

i look at china. korea. even german science and technology. english for their literature. americans for their innovations. japanese for just about everything. even small countries like singapore or taiwan.

everywhere i find TB represented. perhaps, they are the cog in those wheels of prosperity of those countries? unseen but working diligently regardless?

chugging along in the same vein, tamil nadu is among the most developed indian states. so is karnataka and andhra pradesh. here too we can see the hidden hand of the Tamil Brahmin working towards this prosperity.

that bihar, west bengal, U.P. are backward, because they do not have enough TB representation.

pray, clarify my this rather delusional train of thought. personally i too would like to believe in the superiority of TBs. after all we are meant to rule the world, but perhaps the dices are loaded against us in the kali yuga?
 
Cho is a leader only if we choose to follow him!

Sir, I am happy that you have made such a long response with concern.

Dear Ms. Vijayalakshmi,

IMO, in a ninth grade class all students must be encouraged to participate in activities that they are interested in. Why select some and leave behind others? Is this inter-school competition the only worthwhile activity that everyone aspires for? If that is so, then the school faculty and administration must take a hard look at what their mission is.

The above arguments do not serve any purpose. One can always wish that Union Cabinet to take a hard look at what the mission is ... and such things are just a pipe dream.

But, you were the one in the front line. With the class looking on you had to make a difficult decision and nobody can fault you for your decision to select the child without overt hesitation even though you had deep misgivings.

Any judicious decision will be easily twisted as discrimination and as per Civil Rights Act here it is non bailable case!

It is interesting to see the child is taught to draw the line with Brahmins, even though nearly all, if not all, the caste based atrocities reported in the media are perpetrated by the upper caste NBs. This must give TBs pause. It does not help anyone to just dismiss this as mere propaganda. We reject inconvenient truths as propaganda at our peril.

As you say, what you are experiencing in your class is not unique to your class, it is a wide spread phenomenon. The root causes of the predicament forced upon you, and countless other hapless teachers on the front line, are embedded in our religious and cultural psyche. You had to face the inevitable consequences of this broken caste system.

We invariably face it. Only thing is that it is not possible to publish as to how we do it!

What goes up comes down eventually. Our great leaders of modern India, from Gokhale to Gandhi, did not bother to engineer a safe-landing. One consequence of that is this classroom encounter.

These are important and vexing issues and there is nobody in sight who is interested in an honest appraisal and bold leadership. One glaring example of what could be, and unfortunately not, is the great TB intellectual Cho. I greatly enjoy his hilarious political commentary. But his talent and charisma are wasted when he serves up apologies for caste and weaves a web of Vedic glory with which no present day problems TBs face can be solved.

We believe in the vedic glory manifesting amongst our community. Veda just did not glorified Brahmins only. But Brahmins attained glory by vedic ways. It should be made possible now. Cho and vedas has to be followed and not argued.

The effect of this colossal failure of TB intellectuals and religious leaders will be felt with increasing severity in the years to come. The point of no return will be soon at hand.

The failure is not with the leaders. It is the followers and following that is creating the problem. Not many is choosing to live the Brahmin way of life nor they have any appreciation for those who do it against all odds.

The problems TBs face is mainly in the economic arena. If they choose to live as a Brahmin is supposed to, as laid down in the Shashthras, there will be no problem with reservation. No Veda patashala will turn a TB away. But what TBs want is not Veda Patashala, they want B.E. and MBBS.

Brahmins never in the history had economic advantage. But still they had a glorious past. TBs should strive to make it possible now by demonstrating their prowess both in Veda Patashala and B.E / M.B.B.S.

Mass migration is a solution, but mass migration to where? Where ever the TBs go, giving up their caste and culture is just a matter of time. Instead, if the religious and intellectual leaders can act in the best interest of the masses, who look up to them, and get rid of caste, nothing more will be lost compared to mass migration. The ex-TBs get to not migrate, live in TN, and enjoy their culture as open, compassionate, and honorable people.

The Ex - TBs should understand as to what is happening in Tamilnadu and coordinate an action plan for perpetual improvement of the community. There is no use in perpetuating migration without understanding the value of Brahminhood.

Cheers!
 
Community Pride

Sri.RKB said:-



Sri.RKB, Greetings. What is happening to all the Indians in Australia? In our household, everyone of us attended school in OZ, including me. I never felt neglected; our children are actually in demand. Our son completed his high school long back; still hangs out with his high school friends.

What do you mean when you said 'America is also not going to acknowledge the superiority of TBs in any future'? I honestly don't think there ever was any superiority of TB at any time; fortunately, I never deluded myself with such ideas.

There is no need to justify anyone's migration. It is not a shameful act. Migration is not running away. One should have so much courage and perseverance to migrate and succeed.

Cheers!

The Community Pride comes only when you live connected with your community. You are a proud OZ now and so your pride is for OZ community. Go ahead and there is no issue with what you say.
 
Sir, I am happy that you have made such a long response with concern.

Dear Ms. Vijayalakshmi, thank you for your response. I recognize your POV and I still feel the TB intellectuals have failed the society miserably. I would like to leave it at that.

Thank you, regards....
 
Once when I was in college I heard a humorous snippet.

In a pond there were many frogs. Every frog was leaping with an attempt to touch land. While some frogs could make it successfully and landed on overboard, some frogs were unsuccessful in their attempts. In the midst of this crowd, there were also some frogs, who were pulling down the legs of the other frogs who could make.

There were 2 spectator frogs watching from above. One of the spectator frog asked the other,

"Why are some frogs pulling down the other able frogs, preventing them from landing overboard?",

for which the other spectator frog answered,

"Those frogs which pull down the legs of the other able frogs are BRAHMIN frogs".
 
...

for which the other spectator frog answered,

"Those frogs which pull down the legs of the other able frogs are BRAHMIN frogs".
So, from this rather humourous narration, it is evident that the spectator frog subscribes to the DK thought process.
 
Majority Mandookams!

The frogs have their reproductive organs in their leg. And that is the matter. Brahmins never are born again as inferior species. DK can include such species in to caste based census to boost reservation percentages.
Once when I was in college I heard a humorous snippet.

In a pond there were many frogs. Every frog was leaping with an attempt to touch land. While some frogs could make it successfully and landed on overboard, some frogs were unsuccessful in their attempts. In the midst of this crowd, there were also some frogs, who were pulling down the legs of the other frogs who could make.

There were 2 spectator frogs watching from above. One of the spectator frog asked the other,

"Why are some frogs pulling down the other able frogs, preventing them from landing overboard?",

for which the other spectator frog answered,

"Those frogs which pull down the legs of the other able frogs are BRAHMIN frogs".
 
Brahmin community ,reservation & upliftment

Dear Fellow brotheren,

Ro ask for reservation is not needed.

Do give us the seats as per merit.

And , I feel, that the reservation in the initial stages had come to us as a blessing in disguise, but for which we would not have ventured out of our immediate surroundings & would have succeeded so much.

Even now , we know & see many in dire straits.. {I am also one such,
without a past, present & future} those well off can help in making some fruitfu ventures, so as to make the others" life a bit better, as along with serving our community.

We can make or give special summer or part time job offers & encourage brahmin children, who need extra income as to groom as well as to make them come out of the shelllife , which we are in
{ we brahmins are not used to asking for help from others..-- we might offer help,but not otherwise}
Hence we can help our community, in such a way by giving flexibility, & giving a hand in the upliftment of our lessened brothers. we can tap many sources, with the technology now offers, even we can jointly tp & vneture biz ventures, to the betterment of all.
We are never against any community, & infact no one can say anything
about us, we always guide, & help to anyone ,even if they doesnot ask.
{but for those, who are saying everything abt our community only, for their manipulative politics}
Instead of expecting the Reservation, let us help ourselves, & do our bit to community, & help our distressed brothers., in a way we can.{which they will never allow, to be realistic,we know}

There are various ways to work out a mutual benefit way of helping. if there is a willingness to help.
We know abt the capability of our community too.
Hope U all will agree with em.

yours,

Alamelu









[nachi naga;42977]i as a tambrahm do very little donation,as first charity begins at home.when i myself am in debt,what i can worry about fellow tam brahms?

why shud rich tambrahm donate their hard earned money to poor tambrahms.does not make any sense to me.

evry tambrahm shud work harder to be independent and stand on their feets,but community help is always welcome,like educating,like employment...etc.giving free money is not acceptable,but a loan with very very low rate of interest is acceptable.

nachi naga.[/QUOTE]
 
Caste based census is a hot subject now. Most of the NRIs are going to loose their voting right after Unique Identification number. Census will reveal that Brahmins need reservation.
 
Caste based census is a hot subject now. Most of the NRIs are going to loose their voting right after Unique Identification number. Census will reveal that Brahmins need reservation.
Many of the castes which are considered 'forward' have gone down economically after Independence for a variety of reasons and there seems to be a beginning for reservations based on economic criteria rather than the caste as such. We may therefore start a movement to plead for the economically downtrodden brahmins; all of us can join in this though we may not benefit by it.

It is also pertinent to cite another experience of a very benevolent TB who started a fund (as a regd. trust) to give loans for education and dire health needs of poor TBs. Many of us contributed to make a reasonable Fund. Loans (interest free) were given on the basis of recommendations from brahmins' association or other known persons of standing. The recovery of loans for treatment was very poor, and that was expected because the person may not survive or may not be healthy enough to earn and repay. But the surprise was that educational loan recovery went down and down although most of the students prospered and some are there locally. When reminded about repaying the loan, their attitude was like,ஆமாம், என்னத்தே பெரிசா தந்துட்டா, வேறேயும் கடம் வாங்கித்தானே படிக்கவேச்சோம், அதெல்லாம் திரும்பக்குடுக்க வேண்டாமா?
ultimately, a stage came that every year fresh funds had to be found to give even a few deserving loans which also ended up as bad. Finally the Fund wound up.

With this sort of track record of beneficiaries will any one venture into a similar attempt again? So much for the ethics of brahmins.
 
Be pragmatic

Bad ventures are a result of bad management. giving loan is a business and not a philanthropic act. What Brahmins need is Reservation and not sympathetic help from fellow Brahmins. How many of us throw a penny at least at Brahmins begging before Kapali Temple Gate. Let us be pragmatic.
With this sort of track record of beneficiaries will any one venture into a similar attempt again? So much for the ethics of brahmins.
 
Even before pleading for Reservation, we should have some outlook on the past and repair the damages done. How many of us are ready to authentically proclaim to the world that Varna based occupation doctrined by us is utterly sinful and manipulative? When we look from outside the urban atmosphere, we will realize the evils we have unravelled into the society for aeons and aeons for our selfish benefits. There are still schools in rural areas where students as young as 6 years are made to clean the toilet of the school because they belong to a so-called Shudra community destined to do that for a living by Manu. We Brahmins who truly believe in karma, can we undo this gross social injustice?

In a survey, it's proven that 70% of certain caste dalit students in RURAL India drop out of school before age 11 mainly because of oppression they face at schools/community. Is this not a social sin that we definitely were part of in the past? Who do you think were the authors and proclaimers of this caste-based society? Even if we think that the Varnas might have had some good intentions to start with (apart from the non-rationally / universally dubious karmic/birth based underpinnings), can't our ancestors of clairvoyance foresee that the practitioners of this Varnashrama Dharma are mere humans and subject to flaws?!? Why we as a community didn't open our mouth in the past to undo such wrongs and only come forth now when we feel the heat of all our ancestral misgivings?!?

For those who argue that those who oppress are mainly from other caste in FC category, come on tell me is that so?!? Are you talking with a clear conscience?!? Assuming that is the case, what are we doing to propagate that the underlying varna is fallacy so that this would be erradicated @ grass roots? Did we not promote and proclaim caste discrimination to suit our and our suitors benefits? Why not bring a propaganda officially stating that being a Brahmin is to consciously seek utmost spiritual truth in all our endeavors and it has nothing to do with Birth? Why not ordain anyone with utmost discipline & reverance to spiritual shastras as Brahmin and remove anyone leading a so-called born but leading a phony life from being a Brahmin? Why not we do that first and then fight for our rights?
 
For those who may supposedly think why should we raise voice for those oppressed, is it not enough if we stay away from oppressing the lower-caste: Isn't it our responsibility being born out of Mouth of the Supreme to raise voice for those born from the Foot when they feel the weight?!?
 
Even before pleading for Reservation, we should have some outlook on the past and repair the damages done. How many of us are ready to authentically proclaim to the world that Varna based occupation doctrined by us is utterly sinful and manipulative?
Shri Zunedune,

We TBs are still a very conservative lot as is evidenced by the opinions expressed in another thread on "inter-brahmin" marriage. There is strong resistance to marital alliances with the FC categories even. That being the ground reality, the only practical course of action is to demand reservation for the economically poor among us; it has some justfication in the overall situation and will help the needy among us.
Who do you think were the authors and proclaimers of this caste-based society? Even if we think that the Varnas might have had some good intentions to start with (apart from the non-rationally / universally dubious karmic/birth based underpinnings), can't our ancestors of clairvoyance foresee that the practitioners of this Varnashrama Dharma are mere humans and subject to flaws?!?[\QUOTE] I really appreciate this gem of a thought. On the one hand we say that our rishis who laid down the caste-based rules as also Krishna who deals with the caste system in a way that lends to any interpretation (birth-based or guna-based) were divine in their 'jnaanadrshti' but when all that they could foresee was only up to Gandhiji (harijan uplift) or EVR, we are not ready to say that the rishis/krishna did err.
Why we as a community didn't open our mouth in the past to undo such wrongs and only come forth now when we feel the heat of all our ancestral misgivings?!?
Quite simple, we were the beneficiaries till recently.

For those who argue that those who oppress are mainly from other caste in FC category, come on tell me is that so?!? Are you talking with a clear conscience?!? Assuming that is the case, what are we doing to propagate that the underlying varna is fallacy so that this would be erradicated @ grass roots? Did we not promote and proclaim caste discrimination to suit our and our suitors benefits? Why not bring a propaganda officially stating that being a Brahmin is to consciously seek utmost spiritual truth in all our endeavors and it has nothing to do with Birth? Why not ordain anyone with utmost discipline & reverance to spiritual shastras as Brahmin and remove anyone leading a so-called born but leading a phony life from being a Brahmin? Why not we do that first and then fight for our rights?
I am not very clear about the situation in T. Nadu, but in Kerala there is no such anti-brahmin sentiment though the respect that was shown out of compulsion in the olden days, has completely vanished. In UP (I don't think Bihar and MP are same) Mayavati has cleverly roped in brahmins to her BSP, representing Dalits and the Yadavs are now their common opposition. I have a feeling that the TN people are also influenced to think that what applies to UP, should apply here as well.
 
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What is wrong with Varna?

We do not belong to the heritage of sinners. Even the supposed to be more forwrd thinking Communist gospels divide community based on work only as 'Capitalist' and 'Working class'. Society will be invariably classified and tackled and Varna is just one form of it.

Even before pleading for Reservation, we should have some outlook on the past and repair the damages done. How many of us are ready to authentically proclaim to the world that Varna based occupation doctrined by us is utterly sinful and manipulative?
 
This is more like trying to justify that Cigarettes are not the only harmful substance as even Cheese can clog arteries.
Even looking from pov that Communist gospel in wrong hands divides Capitalist and Working Class, I think the gospel doesn't shun a working class to come up the ladder. Whereas, Varna is more cruel by stating that you are destined to serve upper class because of your birth. Can a Shudra performing Sandhya Vandhanam, Vegetarianism, adhering to high ethics and ardently spiritual be recognized as a Brahmin? Is there such a leeway in Varna based living practiced for thousands of years? Think about the millions and millions with zeal and capability to come up the social ladder being controlled under upper caste's thumbs in the name of Varna. What about what we did in name of varna to the lower caste kids with aspiration for Vidyabyasam and Vedic knowledge forced to stay away in name of birth controlled destiny?
 
If Shudra can learn Sanskrit, Sangeetham etc, he can also perform Sandhya Vandhanam. It is only they who have decided not to do it!! In contrast a Working class cannot aspire to be a Capitalist!!
 
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