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Oblique reference to devadasi system, with possible stretching to denigrate periazhwar and andal. Digging for filth where none exists is a specialty.
Vaagmi
0
I would still wait for Nara's reply. No strawman diversion, no adhominem, no putdowns. Just a clarification asked for. I would prefer to take it from him directly. I wait. He has to answer.
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
Why must it be followed scrupulously my dear brother? Is this a dictate from Ranganatha? Or did Azhvars say it must be done in this way only? To limit goshti to only SV male Brahmins is a man made tradition and it makes a mockery of Azhvar's own admonishments regarding varna. This is why SV Brahmins are abject hypocrites.
There were so many traditions that were once followed scrupulously that have been jettisoned because of convenience and necessity -- there was a time when shikai-less head won't get shatari. If this tradition were to be followed scrupulously not even 10% of the goshti will get shatari. There was a time when the tradition was to keep the so called lowly caste -- i.e. dalits -- from entering temples, and the brahmins were made to break that tradition and the sky didn't fall.
What is so sacrosanct about this tradition of not letting NB or women be a part of goshti that it must be followed scrupulously?
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OP
OP
Nara
Guest
The level of ignorance and hypocrisy of present day SV brahmins is seen resplendently displayed every day in Thiruppathi Thirmalai.
Many years ago the TTD wanted to shorten and restrict the சாற்றுமுறை. The Jeeyar of the temple filed a case which went all the way to the supreme court and he won the right to continue the tradition without change, except that the Jeeyar had to make sure only SV Brahmins are allowed in. The thumb rule the Jeeyar came up with and accepted by TTD was (a) no mustache, (b) no sideburns, (c) thiruman sri choornam on the forehead, and (d) of course poonool. If you meet these requirements then you can be be part of their goshti and get free dharshan. If you are a man you can manage to fulfil these requirements for a day, but a woman, she is just out of luck.
But this is not the sad part. These SV Brahmins start lining up at the front entrance from about 5 a.m. When the Jeeyar arrives at about 6:30 and lets these people in, there will be a mad rush to the sannidhi pulling and tugging at other SV Brahmins. This is the behavior they have learned from Azhvars who so poignantly said in திருவாய்மொழி 8.10:
கொடுமாவினையேன் அவனடியார் அடியே கூடும் இதுவல்லால்
விடுமாறேன்பதென் அந்தோ வியன் மூவுலகு பெரினுமே.
Many years ago the TTD wanted to shorten and restrict the சாற்றுமுறை. The Jeeyar of the temple filed a case which went all the way to the supreme court and he won the right to continue the tradition without change, except that the Jeeyar had to make sure only SV Brahmins are allowed in. The thumb rule the Jeeyar came up with and accepted by TTD was (a) no mustache, (b) no sideburns, (c) thiruman sri choornam on the forehead, and (d) of course poonool. If you meet these requirements then you can be be part of their goshti and get free dharshan. If you are a man you can manage to fulfil these requirements for a day, but a woman, she is just out of luck.
But this is not the sad part. These SV Brahmins start lining up at the front entrance from about 5 a.m. When the Jeeyar arrives at about 6:30 and lets these people in, there will be a mad rush to the sannidhi pulling and tugging at other SV Brahmins. This is the behavior they have learned from Azhvars who so poignantly said in திருவாய்மொழி 8.10:
கொடுமாவினையேன் அவனடியார் அடியே கூடும் இதுவல்லால்
விடுமாறேன்பதென் அந்தோ வியன் மூவுலகு பெரினுமே.
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new regulations in tirumala . no jeans and T shirts for youth. I found youngsters wrapping dhoties with upper cloth over these items of wear. For VIP darshan pants not allowed only dhoties for men. in kerala still worse only dhoties with bare bodies or upper angavasthram. I am thinking of not going near these places. I detest nudity of any sort among males in public places specially temples
even without the jeers there is a mad rush.people paying 300 rs entry tickets going in a mad rush jostling and pushing for a few seconds so called darshan of God . the darshan cycle extending from 2 -6 hrs depending on the day and time. if one is a so called believar in this type of worship this is the price to be paid. naraji it may not be a bad idea to become an atheist only to escape this
Choice is yours. One irreverent devotee less, more time for a true devotee. In goan churches too jeans, mini skirts, inappropriate dresses are not allowed. Kerala communists have no problems in visiting temples, churches and mosques.
Offices can enforce a dress code, but temples cannot!!!
Offices can enforce a dress code, but temples cannot!!!
All believers need not go to the temple; those willing to put up with the inconvenience of waiting must have a reason. Why visit when an edarshan is available?
Edarshan is an option . Waiting times can be reduced by good management . You know sarang ji when the people who go for darshan do all the jostling at the entry in a mad frenzy . after the darshan they go out in a relaxed way without pushing and jostling. easily with all the technological advances ,crowd management could be much better.
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
Dear krish44, I am afraid you are missing the point. The general public rushing and jostling, upsetting though such behavior surely is, it is still pardonable in the "they know not" vein. But such behavior among those who pride themselves as devout SVs for whom Azhvars are supreme, is, to put it extremely mildly, hypocritical.
They claim the step separating the inner sanctum of Thirumalai and the outer narrow hall is the step of Kulasekarazhvar, and it is these same SVs who fail so miserably to fulfill the same Azhvar's very fundamental teaching expressed so persuasively and passionately as can be seen in this small snippet from Perumal Thirumozhi #2.6.
அரங்கன் எம்மானுக்கே காதல் செய் தொண்டர்க்கு எப்பிறப்பிலும்
காதல் செய்யும் என் நெஞ்சமே.
I am sure the least among us in this forum, including me the despicable atheist, will do anything for the ones we love at the moment. But the azhvar says he will love those who love Ranganatha not just at this moment, not just in this life, but for ever in the lives he imagines he has.
It is these SVs who mouth such platitudes as Azhvars are evolved beings whose every word is supreme truth who jostle and rush and tug the other SVs, the so called devotees who express undying love to Ranganatha or Srinivasa or whatever. Hypocrites the lot of them ....
forgiving the devotees and saying they know not and pardoning them does not resolve the basic issue. how to get a darshan without much pain to all believers. IF SVs after alwars are the culprits, it might be a generalisation. There might be good SVs and Bad SVs . some reforms are required. Personally I believe these middle men who restrict entries to the common folk citing some religeous practice or the other should be banished.There is no reason that outer areas including the hall and steps should not be widened a lot. Collecting huge sums of Rs300 a head and not ensuring easy darshan is deficiency of service and we could take them to court. Why not
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
It is obvious now that the issue I am focusing on is not one you want to talk about. I am the OP of this thread, so I think what I want to focus on in this thread is what is relevant. Needless to say you can talk about anything you wish anywhere, including this thread. Be that as it may, the view you want to focus on is besides the point of the OP.
tks
0
Nara - Let us say the various people you have chosen to highlight are hypocrites.. Let us take this as a given 'reality' for you. Since it is a strong statement there will be views and analysis opposing your analysis. That has to be taken as a 'reality' for others who may or may not be SVs.
I still dont understand *your answer* to 'So what' ..
Is the establishment of certain people as hypocrites (due to lack of objections in this forum for example) the end of the goal for you and nothing more?
I still dont understand *your answer* to 'So what' ..
Is the establishment of certain people as hypocrites (due to lack of objections in this forum for example) the end of the goal for you and nothing more?
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
I forgot to add this p.s. to my last post -- I am always open to discussing any meaningful rebuttal of what I am writing. However, I couldn't care less for, and will ignore, all and every meaningless distractions .....
tks
0
Sri Krish
My question was not even a challenge - it was trying to understand the objective point of the thread. It is very much relevant because my question is one of asking clarification of what the big picture is and what is being established.. Hence my 'so what' comment ..
If the end goal is condemning any community that is meaningless. In certain matters of discussion like say topic in Mathematics authoritative knowledge is the key (and one has to provide clarity of what the thesis is).
If the posts are about 'exposing some hypocrisies of some SV leaders ' then the poster has to demonstrate their mastery of the subject with their writing and additionally establish personal credibility of not making hypocritical statements or actions (at least in the very thread at a minimum)
While I am not knowledgeable about the details of SV thinking and the works of Azhwars in any detail, I thought Sri Vaagmi had rebutted many items if not all to the best I could follow. There was repeated assertion about Nara's posts themselves being questionable from the hypocrisy point of view. I did not see any rebuttal to any of these posts. So it is unclear what the thesis is, unclear subject matter expertise and unanswered posts raising the credibility of the person who is stating hypocrisy of some SVs...
If these issues are just distractions and not germane to the point being made then I have to assume that Nara must be getting some value by seeing his posts in print. There are no youngsters visiting here.. the number of views per post hovers around 10 and initially there are about 40 to 50 or so. That means there are 8 or 9 people browsing regularly (and I am not one of those) and we probably can find out who those 8 or 9 people are by seeing their posts.
That means no audience is moved if there is a thesis to this thread. My questions were really honest - just trying to understand where Nara was going ...
In the absence of his stating that for benefit of 8 or 9 readers your conclusion is as good as any ....
Thanks for sharing your conclusions
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Vaagmi
0
Now that the unmentionable person is out of the way, thanks to praveen, there will be rebuttals. But if rebuttals are to be interpreted by reference to a single person's special personal dictionary, and if he strongly believes his way is the only way, then in course of time rebuttals will stop and the person can live in his own ivory tower ignorant of what others think about him/his words.
Vaagmi
0
Tks in post 142:
Dear tks,
These words in your post struck me as a genuine exasperation with the inability to filter the static and get the signal clearly. That makes me come up with this post. There is another reason too for this. I have gone through the territory which Mr. Nara is traversing now and so I have a familiarity which encourages me to write this on behalf of him. After reading this Mr. Nara may deny it completely as a piece of wild imagination or even trash it and vehemently attack it. But that is beside the point because If I do not write this I would not be doing justice to myself as I am the one who has repeatedly countered Mr. Nara’s interpretation of Alwars and Acharyas in this forum with my rebuttals.
Though I am extremely reluctant to speak about myself here, it becomes necessary here as it is relevant to the context. During my college days I was a communist and had little respect for religion and God. I used to attend classes regularly conducted by the Annachchi Sankaranarayanan Valibar Sangam in my town on Communism and was a severe critique of God and religion. Because I was born to very mature but religious parents I had the benefit of early exposure to religious texts and knew Alwars’ work and Acharyas’ work as well besides the scriptures. Even when a highly educated and successful party volunteer (an advocate) used to speak generally about the hollowness of scriptures and God theory, I used to tick off in my mind the scriptures and other literary works which satisfied the conditions mentioned by the volunteer. While for the other members of the party who also attended these sessions along with me as well as for the lecturer it was just a statement of a theory (they did not know as much of scriptures and Alwars as I knew) for me there was always enough material to contemplate on and get my newly acquired convictions strengthened. The human mind is such that it looks for validations constantly for its most valued treasures/acquisitions. How I evolved further as the years went by is a different story and this is not the place for that. Mr. Nara is doing exactly the same which I was doing in those years.
In matters like God, religion and social issues he has thought about them and has taken a position. Being from an orthodox family (I do not know him personally but one look at his avatar is enough to confirm this) Nara knows enough about the same God, the same religion and the same social issues which he can use to denigrate them (just as I used in my discussions with my fellow travelers in those class room sessions). If it is social issues, thus he has to quote an Alwar and say that the Alwar was for a casteless society. Next when it is about God the Alwars are not of much help and so it has to be a politician who becomes a virtual God for him. In all this confusion rules supreme. The confusion is more than made up by the gift to say things in a very articulate way.
So when I say:
The poem
பாதியாய் கால் கைகள் அழுகியரேனும்,
பழிதொழிலும் இழிதொழிலும் செய்வரேனும்
ஆதியாய் அரவணையாய் என்பராகில்
அவர்தாமே யாம் வணங்கும் அடியராவர்
speaks only about the greatness of those bhaktas who chant Renga Renga and has nothing to do with a leper being kissed or a butcher being licked I become a diversion and my arguments become strawman arguments. Poets are known to use hyperboles freely. They call it உயர்வு நவிற்சி. Even a modern day poet has said கவிதைக்குப் பொய் அழகு. But Mr. Nara does not take it. Thus for him a SV Brahmin refusing to give his daughter in marriage to a NB or his refusing to take a girl from an NB family as a DIL is blasphemy because somewhere an Alwar said something about கொடுமின் கொள்மின் etc., Similarly an SV Brahmin jostling in the crowd of bhaktas to have a darshan of Thiruvenkatamudaiyan is violating what Alwar said some where about the greatness of being a servant of the bhaktas. For Nara such SVs have violated the “thwadh bhruthya bhruthya, parichAraka bhruthya bhruthya, bhruthyasya bhruthya ithi mAm smara lOkanAtha” (ஏழேழ் பிறவிக்கும்) sentiment expressed by Alwar.
The thesis you are looking for is perhaps this:
I am bewildered and confused by the variety and the sheer number of facts that compete for my acceptance. I have tentatively accepted some and rejected many. They are all right now in the purgatory like the Christian spirits waiting for the day of judgment. I constantly look for validation to salvage them. I have an unbearable load of many facts which I think I have to jettison. But I am not sure. So I keep provoking you here so that I may get the validation that I am looking for to retain one conviction or to jettison a few other convictions. So don’t take my language seriously but keep giving me whatever you know. Who knows I may get a validation every day and a reason to drop one (as a freebie கொசுறு) along with it.
I may be completely wrong with my assessment. Only Mr. Nara can judge.
Dear tks,
These words in your post struck me as a genuine exasperation with the inability to filter the static and get the signal clearly. That makes me come up with this post. There is another reason too for this. I have gone through the territory which Mr. Nara is traversing now and so I have a familiarity which encourages me to write this on behalf of him. After reading this Mr. Nara may deny it completely as a piece of wild imagination or even trash it and vehemently attack it. But that is beside the point because If I do not write this I would not be doing justice to myself as I am the one who has repeatedly countered Mr. Nara’s interpretation of Alwars and Acharyas in this forum with my rebuttals.
Though I am extremely reluctant to speak about myself here, it becomes necessary here as it is relevant to the context. During my college days I was a communist and had little respect for religion and God. I used to attend classes regularly conducted by the Annachchi Sankaranarayanan Valibar Sangam in my town on Communism and was a severe critique of God and religion. Because I was born to very mature but religious parents I had the benefit of early exposure to religious texts and knew Alwars’ work and Acharyas’ work as well besides the scriptures. Even when a highly educated and successful party volunteer (an advocate) used to speak generally about the hollowness of scriptures and God theory, I used to tick off in my mind the scriptures and other literary works which satisfied the conditions mentioned by the volunteer. While for the other members of the party who also attended these sessions along with me as well as for the lecturer it was just a statement of a theory (they did not know as much of scriptures and Alwars as I knew) for me there was always enough material to contemplate on and get my newly acquired convictions strengthened. The human mind is such that it looks for validations constantly for its most valued treasures/acquisitions. How I evolved further as the years went by is a different story and this is not the place for that. Mr. Nara is doing exactly the same which I was doing in those years.
In matters like God, religion and social issues he has thought about them and has taken a position. Being from an orthodox family (I do not know him personally but one look at his avatar is enough to confirm this) Nara knows enough about the same God, the same religion and the same social issues which he can use to denigrate them (just as I used in my discussions with my fellow travelers in those class room sessions). If it is social issues, thus he has to quote an Alwar and say that the Alwar was for a casteless society. Next when it is about God the Alwars are not of much help and so it has to be a politician who becomes a virtual God for him. In all this confusion rules supreme. The confusion is more than made up by the gift to say things in a very articulate way.
So when I say:
The poem
பாதியாய் கால் கைகள் அழுகியரேனும்,
பழிதொழிலும் இழிதொழிலும் செய்வரேனும்
ஆதியாய் அரவணையாய் என்பராகில்
அவர்தாமே யாம் வணங்கும் அடியராவர்
speaks only about the greatness of those bhaktas who chant Renga Renga and has nothing to do with a leper being kissed or a butcher being licked I become a diversion and my arguments become strawman arguments. Poets are known to use hyperboles freely. They call it உயர்வு நவிற்சி. Even a modern day poet has said கவிதைக்குப் பொய் அழகு. But Mr. Nara does not take it. Thus for him a SV Brahmin refusing to give his daughter in marriage to a NB or his refusing to take a girl from an NB family as a DIL is blasphemy because somewhere an Alwar said something about கொடுமின் கொள்மின் etc., Similarly an SV Brahmin jostling in the crowd of bhaktas to have a darshan of Thiruvenkatamudaiyan is violating what Alwar said some where about the greatness of being a servant of the bhaktas. For Nara such SVs have violated the “thwadh bhruthya bhruthya, parichAraka bhruthya bhruthya, bhruthyasya bhruthya ithi mAm smara lOkanAtha” (ஏழேழ் பிறவிக்கும்) sentiment expressed by Alwar.
The thesis you are looking for is perhaps this:
I am bewildered and confused by the variety and the sheer number of facts that compete for my acceptance. I have tentatively accepted some and rejected many. They are all right now in the purgatory like the Christian spirits waiting for the day of judgment. I constantly look for validation to salvage them. I have an unbearable load of many facts which I think I have to jettison. But I am not sure. So I keep provoking you here so that I may get the validation that I am looking for to retain one conviction or to jettison a few other convictions. So don’t take my language seriously but keep giving me whatever you know. Who knows I may get a validation every day and a reason to drop one (as a freebie கொசுறு) along with it.
I may be completely wrong with my assessment. Only Mr. Nara can judge.
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vagmi ji a very interesting post. most have an ideology to support their life position and lifestyle and jettisoning thoughts which do not support his life position without feeling guilty is difficult for many. hence your idea that a person is trying to strengthen his thoughts by posting them has some substance. however it might be a sport for some to post these thoughts and look for condemnation or approval. for those who read these posts ,it is indignation or entertainment depending on them
tks
0
Sri Vaagmi
Thanks for sharing your perspectives - it was nice to read your ideas that are presented so very well.
Not sure if Sri Nara will respond to your post but let me share my thoughts on what you have stated.
I too was somewhat interested in communist philosophies in my younger days since many friends I respected at IIT/Kanpur were into these ideas back in the early to mid 1970s. I grew up in a traditional but not orthodox family.
Orthodoxy the way I understand is about following rules and traditional is about following the intent of those rules. So I was parroting the views that religion is the enemy and how feudal ideas are used to keep the masses under control by a few etc and did not have any conflict with religion per se because I followed very few customs purely as my expression of respect & love for my parents (who actually were more into the intent of the teaching and not into rules).
Though I had studied Sanskrit through high school and had earned many certificates from Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan on my own I have forgotten most of the constructs. I am beginning to relearn now for different reasons. What I know minimally about teaching in Upanishads was as an adult in USA and it was totally due to own interest. So reconciling many ideas apparently contradictory is key for me to stay in the learning path. I was more willing to reject a notion if it did not make sense.
So to me Vedic teaching is not the starting point as the ultimate truth. Instead that truth has to be discovered by our inability to prove it wrong. While I am not leading a conflict free living all the time, I do not have conflicts within the teaching itself from what little I know and also know what I need to do going forward for my ongoing growth.
My own view is that it is incorrect to make god-men out of anyone because it inhibits one's growth as a person. We cannot have starting point that teaching of the Vedas is inerrant and similarly we cannot have starting point of teaching of Azhvars as inerrant either.
Having said this I can fully reconcile the verse you quoted with teachings of Sri Sankara well - to make this point and explain it all is not possible in this forum for me. For one people have to be at the same level of knowledge of Sri Sankara's teaching reasonably well to make the connection.
Sri Nara like most people does not need anyone's advice and will not take one even if it is presented. If someone has discovered the ultimate truth (even with a label of atheism) so be it. There will be no need to get others to buy those views. I personally have no interest in getting anyone to buy or validate what I have to say.
I know what I know, know what I dont know and know what I have to do moving forward and I also know why I am not doing what I could be doing
I have a weakness to want to waste my time in engaging with people here. I suppose it may be better than watching sports or watching movies etc.
My suggestion for people like Nara (and Nara himself) is the following. If you have a quest for truth then you have to brutally honest with yourself if not publicly but secretly. Then evaluate your assumptions and see if they make sense. The teaching that exist in the world are available but the signal is masked by too much noise. One cannot be literal and I see many who are simply literal in their understanding. This comes in the way of growth.
What I have discovered thus far is that the teachings of Sri Sankara through his Bhashya already asks and answers many view points and questions in a Purva Paksha style. I could find something wrong in his teaching in the future but it is unlikely based on how he has had brilliant insights in explaining the Upansihads, Gita and Sutras which themselves have been subjected to scrutiny for centuries.
Without labels (nama-rupa) and words like Advita etc , if one approaches the topic with the quest to know the truth of our nature , and truth of this world then it is possible to gain knowledge that is free of conflicts.
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
Praveen has closed the other thread, but I have something to say as the person targeted. I hope Praveen will let my comment stand:
All this started when Praveen deleted only my posts even though the discussion of banned topic was started by others, and there were at least ten times more posts discussing the banned topic by others than me. Further, the post that was deleted first was one in which I was only responding to KB who actually quoted the banned person. KB's post is still there, but my response is gone. Nobody reported KB, they reported only me.
So why did Praveen delete just my posts and let others stand? Praveen told me that only my post was reported and that too by more than ten times. Those people who reported me didn't bother to report any of the others. All the others were critical of the banned person, I was the only one who was responding to these criticisms. From this it is clear that these people had no problem discussing the banned topic just so long as the comments are to their liking. What they want banned is any rebuttal of the POV they like.
In other words, these people have no problem flouting Praveen's ban if they are the ones doing the flouting. It is these same people who are now pontificating that Praveen's rules must be followed. Where was your pontification when you were actively flouting or at least ignoring his rules? What a crock!
To these people who ran to Praveen like silly KG children and reported only about me I say this: you people are spineless cowards and hypocrites. People like you bring disgrace to the entire TB tribe to which you claim you belong.
p.s.
even now, most of the posts that includes significant discussion of the banned person is still there, only ashwin_ash's sideways sort of comments have been deleted with a warning. Poor guy, he is just a newcomer and being sacrificed as though that will restore balance. But it won't. As long as Praveen will only act when a complaint is made the cowardly hypocrites have an upper hand, they can get any post deleted by simply running to the school master.
All this started when Praveen deleted only my posts even though the discussion of banned topic was started by others, and there were at least ten times more posts discussing the banned topic by others than me. Further, the post that was deleted first was one in which I was only responding to KB who actually quoted the banned person. KB's post is still there, but my response is gone. Nobody reported KB, they reported only me.
So why did Praveen delete just my posts and let others stand? Praveen told me that only my post was reported and that too by more than ten times. Those people who reported me didn't bother to report any of the others. All the others were critical of the banned person, I was the only one who was responding to these criticisms. From this it is clear that these people had no problem discussing the banned topic just so long as the comments are to their liking. What they want banned is any rebuttal of the POV they like.
In other words, these people have no problem flouting Praveen's ban if they are the ones doing the flouting. It is these same people who are now pontificating that Praveen's rules must be followed. Where was your pontification when you were actively flouting or at least ignoring his rules? What a crock!
To these people who ran to Praveen like silly KG children and reported only about me I say this: you people are spineless cowards and hypocrites. People like you bring disgrace to the entire TB tribe to which you claim you belong.
p.s.
even now, most of the posts that includes significant discussion of the banned person is still there, only ashwin_ash's sideways sort of comments have been deleted with a warning. Poor guy, he is just a newcomer and being sacrificed as though that will restore balance. But it won't. As long as Praveen will only act when a complaint is made the cowardly hypocrites have an upper hand, they can get any post deleted by simply running to the school master.
OP
OP
Nara
Guest
Comments like this are infuriating. If I have stated this one time, I have stated it a thousand times, I am willing to enter into a reasoned discussion of any of my views. I respect counter views, what I don't care about are personal comments about me which is all I get from you, tks, and V. Why don't you guys stop all that and start talking about the content of my view. If all you are going to do is speculate why I am making these posts, my intellectual integrity, etc., then you will have to carry on with such talk among yourselves.
Dear Nara,
A certain member named Prasad1 recently told me it was his duty to 'defend' all communities and stifle any form of intellectual discussion if it offends 'him' in any which way. This attitude is extremely shocking, to say the least. Such people are allowed a free run, while my harmless posts get much censure. I can well empathize, since I'm in the same sinking boat as you are in.
The sad part is, such high-handedness has been existing in the real world, and the community has been castigated for that. Refusal to learn from mistakes will only lead to more discrimination and criticism of the community.
tbs
0
respected sangom sir,
even though this was not adrressed towards me.........but i like to say something here.....becoz the concern tread closed....
i quote ur words.....
Dear Shri Vaagmi,
I don't want to begin a long discussion but when I joined this forum there was no disqualification on dissenting views or views which did not toe the line of the majority. I feel the forum attained the present level because of that "inclusiveness". If, however, it is the decision to make this an exclusive club for the majority only, so be it. But let that be spelt out boldly and clearly for all to see; the dissenters will leave.
it was never been a exclusive club..........i myself /brhmanyan sir joined more than 5 years here..........it was never been EXCLUSIVE
CLUB....ITS JUST ILLUSSION...........LIKE MAAYA....ITS LOOKS LIKE EXCLUSIVE CLUB....just my thoughts...sorry to say..
even though this was not adrressed towards me.........but i like to say something here.....becoz the concern tread closed....
i quote ur words.....
Dear Shri Vaagmi,
I don't want to begin a long discussion but when I joined this forum there was no disqualification on dissenting views or views which did not toe the line of the majority. I feel the forum attained the present level because of that "inclusiveness". If, however, it is the decision to make this an exclusive club for the majority only, so be it. But let that be spelt out boldly and clearly for all to see; the dissenters will leave.
it was never been a exclusive club..........i myself /brhmanyan sir joined more than 5 years here..........it was never been EXCLUSIVE
CLUB....ITS JUST ILLUSSION...........LIKE MAAYA....ITS LOOKS LIKE EXCLUSIVE CLUB....just my thoughts...sorry to say..
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