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Saguni....

  • Thread starter Thread starter narayanee
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ஒபாமாவிற்கு நோபல் பரிசு வழங்கியது அவருக்கே சங்கடமாக இருந்திருக்கிறது.

கலைமாமணி விருது போல் இந்த நோபல் பரிசு ஆகி விட்டது.

வெங்கட்ராமன் போன்ற விஞ்ஞானிகள் எவ்வளவு கஷ்டப்பட்டிருப்பார்கள், இந்த விருதைப் பெறுவதற்கு.

ஆனால்,ஒபாமாவின் உலக அமைதிப் முயற்சி இன்னமும் ஆரம்பக் கட்டத்திலேயே இருக்கிறது.அது சரியான பாதையில் போகிறதா என்பதை காலம் இன்னும் பரிட்சிக்கவில்லை.இவர் இஸ்ரேல்,பாலஸ்தின விவகாரத்தையோ அல்லது ஈரான் விவகாரத்தையோ அல்லது பாகிஸ்தான் , ஆஃப்கனிஸ்தான் விவகாரத்தையோ முடிவுக்குக் கொண்டு வரவில்லை.

இதில் என்ன கூத்து என்றால், கத்தியின்றி ரத்தமின்றி சாத்வீகமான முறையில், ஒரு தேசத்தைத் துண்டு போடாமல், அதற்குக் கட்டுப்பட்டு சுயாட்சி கோரி ,சுமார் 50 ஆண்டுகளாகப் போராடி வருபவரும்,அஹிம்சா வழியை மேற்கெண்டிருப்பவரும், இன்னும் சில வாரங்களில் அமெரிக்கா வர இருப்பவருமான* 75 வயதான தலாய்லாமாவை , மனித உரிமை என்றால் என்னவென்றே தெரியாத, தலாய்லாமாவின் பரம* எதிரியான சீனாவின் வற்புறுத்தலுக்கு வளைந்து கொடுத்து சந்திக்காமல் இருக்கப் போகிறார், இந்த 48 வயதான ஒபாமா.

இத்தனைக்கும் சமாதானத்துக்காக நோபல் பரிசு பெற்றவர் தலாய்லாமா.அவரைச் சந்திக்க நேரமில்லை என்று கையை விரித்தவர், நோபல் பரிசு பெறப் போகும் பாரக் ஹுசைன் ஒபாமா?

கூத்து.

இன்னமும் அமெரிக்கர்களுக்கு உரிய சூது வாது இவரை தொற்றிக் கொள்ளாததால்,இந்த விருது பெற தனக்குத் தகுதி இல்லை என்று அடக்கத்துடன் சொல்லிக் கொள்கிறார்.

இருந்தாலும்,விருதால் இவருக்கு அழகா?இவரால் விருதுக்கு அழகா?

.....

Of late this Nobel prize can be equated with our local Kalaimaamani awards.
Though Obama has honestly acknowledged that he does not deserve this,still, it is absolutely ridiculous to have chosen him.He is yet formulate and firm up his road map for world peace; his so called peace initiative, however nascent it may be, is yet to be tested in Israel- Palastene conflict, Iran fiasco, Afghan- Pakistan , North Korea like that.

It is a comedy, that this award is being given when he finds no time to meet another Nobel award winner for peace, called Dalailama,at the behest of patent human rights violator called China.

Scientists like Venky should have struggled hard to reach this coveted stage; but for the politicians like Obama,and now, giving this award questions the genuineness and sanctity of this award in toto.

The question is, whether this award adorns the President Obama or Obama adorns the award!

A million dollar question indeed!!


.
 
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.............

It is a comedy, that this award is being given when he finds no time to meet another Nobel award winner for peace, called Dalailama,at the behest of patent human rights violator called China.

...The question is, whether this award adorns the President Obama or Obama adorns the award!

A million dollar question indeed!!


.

narayanee,

i don't know anything about million dollars, except that increasingly it is not worth much. :)

perhaps, i can comment on a couple of other points raised by you?

re obama not meeting dalai lama: obama is a politician and president of the u.s.a first and foremost. his interests are on the lookout for what is best for the u.s.

in this context, nothing good is going to come out of meeting dalai, especially at this juncture of relationship with china.

the meeting may make a statement, but that statement that will be fraught with confusion - what will this statement represent?

- to china, that obama stands for a free tibet?
- obama stands for internal freedoms in china, which is solely a china private affair?
- to insult the u.s.a's biggest creditor?

overall, nothing positive will come out of this meeting, other than photo ops and muting the criticism of the u.s. right wing, which does not like obama anyways.

whether the reward adorns obama or vice versa - it is in the eyes of the beholder. i do not think pondering over this is worth even one paise.

now, if you take a replica of the nobel medal and wear it, and look in the mirror........... i will be interested in knowing how it wears on you?

cheers :)
 
Dear Kunjuppu,

I agree that the award to Obama does not look half bad compared to some of the other awards. If the committee had announced the award as an incentive for Obama to deliver on his promises, that too would have made a lot of sense. But, the announcement claimed the award was mainly for the achievements he has already accomplished.

It was kind of ironic that the award was announced in the midst of things like troop escalation in Afghanistan and further militarization of Guam.

Coming right after Bush, he looks really good. He may yet turn out to be a great president, we will have to wait and see. I hope the peace prize serves a further impetus on making good on his foreign policy promises.

Is cheers alright:)
 
Dear Ms. Narayanee:
You seem to have a fix on Mr. Obama!! Anyway, please read the following NY Times article on why the Nobel Prize committee chose Mr. Obama. I voted for Mr. Obama; not because I was enchanted by him but for CHANGE - the country had had enough of Mr. Bush. So, let us give him a chance on how he will fulfil his pledges - the high unemployment is glaring in the eyes. If he doesn't deliver within 4 years, we always have other options!!!
By the way, it is $1.4 million for 2009 - Nobel Prize money.
THE NEW YORK TIMES
October 10, 2009
From 205 Names, Panel Chose the Most Visible

By WALTER GIBBS
OSLO — The five-member Norwegian Nobel committee spent seven months winnowing the dossiers on dissident monks, human rights advocates, field surgeons and other nominees — 205 names in all, most of them obscure — before deciding to give the Nobel Peace Prize to perhaps the most famous man on the planet, Barack Obama.
While in recent decades the selection process has produced many winners better known for their suffering or their environmental zeal than for peacemaking, the panel’s new chairman, Thorbjorn Jagland, said that members this year took a more practical approach in their unanimous vote for President Obama.
“It’s important for the committee to recognize people who are struggling and idealistic,” Mr. Jagland said in an interview after the prize was announced, “but we cannot do that every year. We must from time to time go into the realm of realpolitik. It is always a mix of idealism and realpolitik that can change the world.”
The committee is overtly political, as the Swedish dynamite tycoon Alfred Nobel must have intended when, in his will, he instructed the Norwegian Parliament to appoint the selection committee. Because it is chosen to reflect roughly the balance of party strength in Norway, the current committee has members across the spectrum, from the Socialist Left Party to the far-right Progress Party.
Mr. Jagland, 58, a former Labor Party prime minister, was elected Sept. 29 to be secretary general of the Council of Europe, a 47-nation organization that, operating in parallel to the European Union, seeks to further democracy and the rule of law.
Geir Lundestad, who as executive director of the Norwegian Nobel Institute has handled the committee’s administrative affairs since 1990, said the panel met six or seven times this year, starting several weeks after the nomination deadline, Feb. 1.
Any member of a national legislature, any professor of the social sciences and several other categories of people are free to submit nominations, and someone usually puts forward the name of the American president. That was true this year, even though Mr. Obama had been in office less than two weeks when the deadline hit.
This year the panel did not settle on a winner until Monday, Mr. Lundestad said He added that Oslo now faced a major challenge: to get ready for the award ceremony for Mr. Obama, just two months away. It will probably be among the largest civic events in Norwegian history.
The committee took a chance in choosing Mr. Obama, who not only is in his freshman year as president, but also is directing two wars. Should his presidency descend into a military quagmire, as Lyndon B. Johnson’s did during the Vietnam War, the decision could prove an embarrassment.
Some in Oslo said the Nobel committee had put the integrity of the award at stake. But Mr. Jagland seemed to savor the risk. He said no one could deny that “the international climate” had suddenly improved, and that Mr. Obama was the main reason.
Of the president’s future, he said: “There is great potential. But it depends on how the other political leaders respond. If they respond negatively, one might have to say he failed. But at least we want to embrace the message that he stands for.”
He likened this year’s award to the one in 1971, which recognized Willy Brandt, the chancellor of West Germany, and his “Ostpolitik” policy of reconciliation with Communist Eastern Europe.
“Brandt hadn’t achieved much when he got the prize, but a process had started that ended with the fall of the Berlin Wall,” Mr. Jagland said. “The same thing is true of the prize to Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990, for launching perestroika. One can say that Barack Obama is trying to change the world, just as those two personalities changed Europe.”
Mr. Jagland, asked if the committee feared being labeled naïve for accepting a young politician’s promises at face value, shrugged and said, “Well, so?”
 
ஒபாமாவிற்கு நோபல் பரிசு வழங்கியது அவருக்கே சங்கடமாக இருந்திருக்கிறது.

ஆனால்,ஒபாமாவின் உலக அமைதிப் முயற்சி இன்னமும் ஆரம்பக் கட்டத்திலேயே இருக்கிறது.அது சரியான பாதையில் போகிறதா

I agree with the above, he has not delivered and the committee could have waited at least another year. However, when in it comes to foreign policy, excluding what he inherited from the disastrous Bush administration, Obama's start is very promising. There was a report out last week showing US as the most admired country in the world, jumping from 7th during Bush time to 1st after Obama.

U.S. most admired country globally: survey - Yahoo! News

Cheers!
 
Dear Sri anandb Ji,

My comments in 'blue':

Read these links
Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com

Both are based on 'no war at any cost' crowd. To them any war is immoral. Every foreign decision made by the USA is based on 'zionist' views. This is ridiculous. You need to understand that there is a huge 'intellectual' block in America, who think that Capitalism is wrong, America's sole aim is to 'colonize' the world, and this crowd more and more views communism, socialism and jihadism as perfectly okay instruments to bring about total chaqnge in the society. You can see that they have been drumming up before the Iraq war that Bush wanted to break up Iraq! Not only Bush rejected the breaking up of Iraq, this idea was vociferously promoted by none other than the current VP, the foreign policy star for the left, Senator Joe Biden.

If I were you, I would read both sides of the argument - not just a one sided opinions expressed without foundation at places like Vijayavani.

Agreed. But Iran says its uranium enrichment program is for peaceful purposes. The Israeli-USA nexus says it is not. This is what the same nexus said that Iraq possessed WMD and used it as a reason to invade Iraq and reduce it to rubble. I can see a pattern here. Iraq, previously and now Iran were the only two countries which could challenge Israel in this region. The former is now a non-entity now. So Iran next? Damn the world community. They are shameless. Whether it is the UN or the World Bank, all they do is shamelessly toe the US line. Do they have a choice?
Sir, as a member of the NPT regime, Iran would not allow full access to IAEA. Why? They have started a new reactor in secrecy without telling anyone, in particular the UN. Why? These are not the imaginations of the US/Israel alone.

Go back and read the resolutions passed in the UN about WMD in Iraq. They did not comply with the chemical destruction regime - they are the only modern country who used the WMD(chemical) against their own people (Kurds). They tried to completely wipe out the Shia people who lived in the marshes in Southern Iraq. UN has a security council where there is a veto power vested to each permanent member. So, when UN passes a resolution, it means that the world opinion is behind it. Who is then 'shameless'? 'Shameless' about throwing out a regime which consistently violated the surrender agreement and the UN mandates? Please read the reports from Hans Bliz and El Baradei about Iraq's WMD regime. How can one argue then that they did not have WMD? This is pure fantasy.

Please read reports of the ethnic cleansing being carried out by Israel in Palestine and Gaza. I cannot believe you can say they are all innocent and just defending themselves.
When you use words like 'ethnic cleansing' and genocide to describe Israel's military actions in Gaza against those who make rockets and toss them indiscriminately against Israeli population, I have to assume that you do not understand the definitions of these words very well.

How can a multi ethnic and diverse democracy like Israel where 20% of the population is Arab, with almost 80% muslim ane bedouin and 10% Christian, which has declared in it's constitution equal protection and rights to ALL it's citizens? The supreme court of Israel consistently backed up this equal right clause and the Arabs and especially the muslims amongst them stand for elections and get elected to the Knesset. Does this sound like a country bent on Arab genocide and 'ethnic cleansing'? Israel has a policy to punish those who do her harm and they do this, because the Arabs understand only the language of power and strength. And then they hide amongst the civilians, which is, by the way, is against the international law. So, when some civilians invariably die due to collateral damage, everyone accuses Israel of 'genocide'. Come on - how about these Palestinian Arabs tossing rockets against the Israelis where sometimes they explode in schools? How about them blowing themselves up in crowds during intifada? That is not 'genocide' in your book?

Please again, if you are getting information about Israel from any news/TV outlets starting with 'Al', aka Al Jazeera, I would totally count on getting 100% fabricated, one sided info about Israel.

Pakistan does not need nuclear supplies officially. They have the means to procure them illegally and USA knows about it. Also the billions in economic aid is only further helping Pakistan to arm itself to the teeth. My question is why, USA a democratic country, is helping Pakistan at all especially after conclusive proof that it is the major supplier of terrorists around the world. This also raises questions in my mind as to why Pakistan, a hotbed terrorist spot, is not targeted by the USA-Israel nexus. Probably it is not proximate to Israel.
Sir, the headache of Pakistan for the US is that it is almost a failed state. Americans are very worried about the N bomb and material falling in to the hands of the islamic nuts. If they do, that will have great implications for the world (especially India). So they do not have much options in Pakistan, except to back the military the only half decent institution in Pakistan. This is why they are spending the money. They probably banked on Benazir, but then you know what happened. Again, your assumptions about USA/Israel 'nexus' is wrong. USA follows her own ineterests when it comes to Pakistan. Nothing else.

There is Western antipathy because there is first hand information here about what's going on in Iraq and Israel's atrocities in Gaza and Palestine. Photos of civilian causalities are splashed all over on a regular basis and they are not a pretty sight.
You are obviously fed a one sided story, because you live in a gulf country. Israel's strikes are after she is attacked by these nuts.

Agree with you about what happened 50 years ago but today everyone except Israel is fed up of war. Israel is still having paranoid fears about getting wiped out. The only countries which could have done it are Iraq and Iran. This cycle of hatred is no good to anyone.
This is where you are wrong - both Syria and Iran have proxies in lebanon. Egypt allows illegal smuggling of weapons in to Gaza through tunnels. Jordan, though not threatening, has a huge Palestinian refugee population. Given the history of the jewish people they have every right to be 'paranoid'. I do not think that any of us who haven't walked in their shoes can preach to them about how to defend themselves.

We are in a Unipolar world now where the only superpower is USA. But to me, the USA is acting like a willing slave of Israel.
Again, your inference is wrong. They both are very strong allies, scratching each other's backs on mutual interests.

I agree with you wholly except why the American government supports Pakistan, a country which exports terror on a wholesale basis.
I already explained why, above.
Regards,
KRS
 
'Most admired' country status does not do anything towards resolving the areas of US policy headaches.

Bush's foreign policies were not 'disastrous'. This is the view from the left, who have been repeating this matra loudly again and again and unfortunately it has stuck.

People forget the genesis for the 9/11 attack. It started with the mistake by Reagan in not answering the Khobar towers bombing. Continued on with bombing of Kohl, African embassies, first WTT bombing - all with weak responses, treating them as a 'criminal' matter. Most of this happened under Clinton's watch. Again due to Janet Reno's policies, FBI and CIA did not share critical info. So 9/11 happened and emboldened all islamic nuts enormously around the world. People were dancing in the streets in almost all Islamic nations' capitals. Now, if I remember correctly, Bush was barely in office then. So, they can not blame him for it (I am sure they wish they could).

Only people who are high on something would argue that Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. Who can forget the Indian Airlines hijacking? Who can forget the hero of Northern Alliance ruthlessly getting assassinated by al-queda with Taliban connivance. Who gave safe haven to al-queda? Who refused to comply by UN order to turn over those responsible for al-queda?

As I have said before, there is a leftist/jihadi nexus alive and kicking in the US, in some academic circles.

Regards,
KRS
 
B You need to understand that there is a huge 'intellectual' block in America, who think that Capitalism is wrong, America's sole aim is to 'colonize' the world, and this crowd more and more views communism, socialism and jihadism as perfectly okay instruments to bring about total chaqnge in the society. You can see that they have been drumming up before the Iraq war that Bush wanted to break up Iraq! Not only Bush rejected the breaking up of Iraq.....

Regards,
KRS

சகுனி: 'என்ன நாடகம் என்று சொல்லுகிறேன். அதைக்கேள்! யுதிட்டிரனையும் மற்ற பாண்டு புத்திரர்களையும் இங்கு விருந்துக்கு அழைக்க வேண்டும். பிறகு நிதானமாக சொக்கட்டான் ஆட்டத்திற்கு ஏற்பாடு செய்ய வேண்டும். யுதிட்டிரனை ஆட அழைக்க வேண்டும். ஆட ஆரம்பிக்கும் முன் ஆட்டம் சுவாரஸ்யமாய் இருப்பதற்காக சில பொற்காசுகள் வைத்து விளையாடலாம் என்று ஆரம்பித்து அதற்கு யுதிட்டிரன் சரி என்று சொன்னதும், வலை விரிப்பது போல் பகடைப் பாயை விரிக்க வேண்டும். பிறகு பகடை அஸ்திரத்தை எடுப்பதற்குமுன், ஒவ்வொரு முறை காயை உருட்டும் போதும் சில பல பணய பொருள்கள் வைக்கலாம் என்று ஆரம்பித்து, ஆட்ட முடிவில் யாரிடம் பணயம் வைக்க ஏதும் பொருள் இல்லையோ அவர்கள் நாட்டை - இராஜ்யத்தை வைத்து ஆட வேண்டும் என்று முடிக்க வேண்டும்.

http://www.tamiloviam.com/unicode/printpage.asp?fname=12150504&week=dec1505
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கே.ஆர்.எஸ்ஜி, நீங்கள் சொன்னாலும் சொல்லாவிட்டாலும், உலகமே, இந்த சகுனியால், இனி முதலாளித்துவம் அபாயகரமானது;என்று சோஷலிஸ, பொதுவுடமைச் சித்தாந்தத்துக்கு, அவர்கள் விரும்பாவிட்டாலும், அழைத்துச் செல்லப்படக் கூடும்.சீனா ஒரு பொதுவுடமை நாடு.அதன் ஜனத்தொகை 150 கோடி.இந்தியா சோஷலிஸ நாடு.அதன் ஜனத்தொகை 125 கோடி.அப்படி இருந்தும், இந்தப் பொருளாதாரச் சரிவுக்கு இவர்கள் காரணமல்ல.இன்று G 20க்குள் நுழைந்து விட்டனர்.வெறும் 340 மில்லியன், அதாவது 34 கோடி மட்டுமே கொண்ட அமெரிக்காவில் மெத்தப்படித்த நிதித்துறை நிபுணர்கள் இப்போது சீனா, இந்தியா நோக்கி வேலைக்காகச் செல்லத் தொடங்கி விட்டனர்.அமெரிக்காவுடன் ஒப்பிடும் போது,இந்தியாவும் ,சீனாவும் சற்று அதிகக் கட்டுபாடுகள் உள்ளவர்கள் தான், பொருளாதார விஷயத்தில்.காரணம் அவர்கள் ஜனத்தொகை அப்படி வைத்து விட்டது.அதனால், இன்று அதல பாதாளத்தில் அமெரிக்கா போல் விழவில்லை.அப்படியிருக்க, அமெரிக்காவின் முதாலாளித்துவக் கொள்கைகள் நீர்த்துப் போய்க் கொண்டிருக்கின்றன, என்பதற்கு, ஒபாமாவின் அரசுடமையாக்கலே ஒரு உதாரணம்.இன்று தனியார் வங்கிகளில் அமெரிக்க அரசின் பங்கு அதிகரித்து வர என்ன காரணம்?

இவர்களின் ஊதாரித்தனமான முதலாளித்துவக் கொள்கை தானே!

அடுத்து ஜிஹாதி சித்தாந்தம்,.இன்று பாகிஸ்தான் ரத்த பூமியாகிக் கொண்டிருக்கிறது.நேற்று ஆஃப்கனிஸ்தான்;,முதல் நாள், ஈராக்..ஒரு வேளை நாளை ஈரானாக இருக்கலாம்.பாதிக்கப்படுபவர்களில் பெரும்பான்மையினர், முஸ்லிம்கள்.அங்கே ஜிஹாத் உலகத்தின் மேல் திணிக்கப்பட யார் காரணம்? ஏன் நேற்று இந்திய தூதரகம் தாலிபானால் ஆஃப்கனிஸ்தானில் தாக்கப்பட்டது?இந்தியா அமெரிக்காவுடன் தோழமை பாராட்டுவது தானே முக்கியக் காரணம்?

9/11 முடிந்து 8 வருடங்கள் ஆகி விட்டன.ஆனால், இந்தியாவில் 26/11 வந்து விட்டது.அந்தப் பிரதேசமே ஜிஹாதிகளின் தலைமையகமாக மாறி வருகிறது.

தங்கள் நாட்டில் 8 வருடங்களாக எந்த தாக்குதலும் இல்லாமல் பார்த்துக் கொண்டு விட்டார்கள்.ஆனால், கீழ் திசை நாடுகளில்?

ஆக, எல்லாவற்றிற்கும் சூத்திரதாரி யார்?

KRSJi, today the world has started acknowledging communism or socialism, disregarding capitalism.Why? Who is answerable for the failure of capitalism?China , a communist country with a population of 150 crores, India, a socialist with 125 crores have survived the ongoing recession , which could not be withstood by Capitalist America! If that is so, in future, why should the rest of the world try to adopt capitalism?

Who is to be blamed for this malaise?

Why should the so called educated financial professionals from US universities attempt to migrate to communist and socialist countries?

Then Jihadism! Why first of all it surfaced?Yesterday it was Iraq, then Afghan, now Pakistan, tomorrow may be Iran!What is the common thread?Is not the muslim community as a whole that is perceived to be jeopardized by the American?Why should Indian embassy in Afghan be attacked, second time, yesterday ?Is it not because of our diplomacy getting closer to US to strengthen our relationship?Or by US towards India!

8 years have since passed after 9/11. America is otherwise calm!But what about eastern countries, via middle east?That means , US has adroitly exported their sin to these countries!Is it not?

Who is responsible for all the mess?
 
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Dear narayanee Ji,

I have deleted the Tamil portion of your post here for space saving and since my response is going to be in English in 'blue':

KRSJi, today the world has started acknowledging communism or socialism, disregarding capitalism.Why?
Which nations in the world have started 'acknowledging' communism and socialism, 'disregarding capitalism'? Your supposition is wrong. In fact the Communist China and Russia and the Socialist India have seen the failures with their systems and have been moving steadily towards Capitalism and free enterprise. So you are constructing a straw man here.
Who is answerable for the failure of capitalism?China , a communist country with a population of 150 crores, India, a socialist with 125 crores have survived the ongoing recession , which could not be withstood by Capitalist America! If that is so, in future, why should the rest of the world try to adopt capitalism?
Did I miss something as momentous as the 'failure of capitalism'? When and where did it fail? In the USA, the economic cycle soured as the Govt. failed to regulate some important aspects of the economy due to political reasons. Nothing to do with Capitalism. As the saying goes, when America sneezes, the world will catch cold. China and India were affected, but not by as much, because of their growth rates fueled by capitalistic businesses.

Free enterprise system is the only system in the history of human race is shown to consistently create wealth. No other system even comes close. Please read the history on the evolution of economic/social systems.

Who is to be blamed for this malaise?
Failure of businesses is inherent in the capitalistic system in free markets. That is the strength of the system. Your assumption here is again wrong. 'Malaise', by definition is a 'lingering malady'. No one is saying that the economy in the US is going to be down for a long period of time - thanks mainly to the capitalistic system.

Why should the so called educated financial professionals from US universities attempt to migrate to communist and socialist countries?
In capitalism, people, goods and services flow to places where there is large growth - because of business opportunities. This is why.

Then Jihadism! Why first of all it surfaced?Yesterday it was Iraq, then Afghan, now Pakistan, tomorrow may be Iran!What is the common thread?Is not the muslim community as a whole that is perceived to be jeopardized by the American?Why should Indian embassy in Afghan be attacked, second time, yesterday ?Is it not because of our diplomacy getting closer to US to strengthen our relationship?Or by US towards India!
Afghanistan over a long time been the 'influence' battleground between India and Pakistan (please read the Afghanistan history since 1947). Nothing to do with the USA.

Jihadism surfaced mainly because the fundamentalist islamic movements around the world gained followings in their respective countries because of the bad socialistic and corrupt capitalistic dictatorships that did not raise the standards of their people economically.

So, the Jihadi movement was born to fashion a pan islamic arc starting from Spain and all the way down to South East Asia and install a Caliphite to go back to the glory days of Islam. Again, nothing to do with USA.

8 years have since passed after 9/11. America is otherwise calm!But what about eastern countries, via middle east?That means , US has adroitly exported their sin to these countries!Is it not?
What sins you are talking about that was 'exported'? America is protecting her citizens safety. If you look at country by country where problems surface, you will see a local reason for their problems. Name me one country, any such country, we can have lengthy discussions about that specific country. Every country is different. To blame america for the world's problems is illogical.

Who is responsible for all the mess?
I know who IS NOT wholly responsible - that is USA.
Regards,
KRS
 
to Kunjuppuji and Krsji, Sorry for delay in my reply due to some ungent meetings, 1,I have Praised sri Krsji who stands his views and I like his reply as Be a ROman In rome theory. 2 )Last 45 years I am having contacts with US both in my official level and my personal relatives, I replied my own experence and observation only. But a country having double standreds is all ways danger. I am also against the Noble prize to Obama.Since he is not at all kick started his peace process any were in the world, just speaking is not going to help. America is always stands with Pak. s.r.k.
 
Dear KRSji,

I know this argument can go in circles so I will put my final comments in maroon and will not respond any further than this.

Both are based on 'no war at any cost' crowd. To them any war is immoral. Every foreign decision made by the USA is based on 'zionist' views. This is ridiculous. You need to understand that there is a huge 'intellectual' block in America, who think that Capitalism is wrong, America's sole aim is to 'colonize' the world, and this crowd more and more views communism, socialism and jihadism as perfectly okay instruments to bring about total chaqnge in the society. You can see that they have been drumming up before the Iraq war that Bush wanted to break up Iraq! Not only Bush rejected the breaking up of Iraq, this idea was vociferously promoted by none other than the current VP, the foreign policy star for the left, Senator Joe Biden.
If I were you, I would read both sides of the argument - not just a one sided opinions expressed without foundation at places like Vijayavani.

The other side of the argument comes only on mainstream media which I don't believe. I prefer to get news on private forums and blogs like these. I think these alternative channels of news arose because a lot of good, credible news does not come from the mainstream media these days.

Sir, as a member of the NPT regime, Iran would not allow full access to IAEA. Why? They have started a new reactor in secrecy without telling anyone, in particular the UN. Why? These are not the imaginations of the US/Israel alone.

Even if Iran has got a clandestine nuclear program going, just like you saying that Jews are feeling paranoid about their safety will it not equally apply to Iran that they feel paranoid about their safety from the Jews. Now my entire question is about the role of USA in this. If the USA has to behave in the role of a superpower, instead of taking sides with Israel, it should try and resolve the conflict between Iran and Israel. If in the aftermath of Obama winning the Nobel, he suddenly sees himself as a peace messiah and dons that role, I still will have some respect for USA.

Go back and read the resolutions passed in the UN about WMD in Iraq. They did not comply with the chemical destruction regime - they are the only modern country who used the WMD(chemical) against their own people (Kurds). They tried to completely wipe out the Shia people who lived in the marshes in Southern Iraq. UN has a security council where there is a veto power vested to each permanent member. So, when UN passes a resolution, it means that the world opinion is behind it. Who is then 'shameless'? 'Shameless' about throwing out a regime which consistently violated the surrender agreement and the UN mandates? Please read the reports from Hans Bliz and El Baradei about Iraq's WMD regime. How can one argue then that they did not have WMD? This is pure fantasy.

Sir, in your previous arguments you were saying that if USA acts for its own self interests there is nothing wrong. I can still go for that argument but since when USA became bothered about Saddam bombing its Kurdish citizens? Veto power and all is quite fine on paper but when Bush stated that the other countries are either with it or against it on war, did they have any choice? And where on earth did all the WMD go in Iraq? The CIA with its massive intelligence could not prove the presence of WMD either before or after the war.


[/QUOTE]When you use words like 'ethnic cleansing' and genocide to describe Israel's military actions in Gaza against those who make rockets and toss them indiscriminately against Israeli population, I have to assume that you do not understand the definitions of these words very well.
How can a multi ethnic and diverse democracy like Israel where 20% of the population is Arab, with almost 80% muslim ane bedouin and 10% Christian, which has declared in it's constitution equal protection and rights to ALL it's citizens? The supreme court of Israel consistently backed up this equal right clause and the Arabs and especially the muslims amongst them stand for elections and get elected to the Knesset. Does this sound like a country bent on Arab genocide and 'ethnic cleansing'? Israel has a policy to punish those who do her harm and they do this, because the Arabs understand only the language of power and strength. And then they hide amongst the civilians, which is, by the way, is against the international law. So, when some civilians invariably die due to collateral damage, everyone accuses Israel of 'genocide'. Come on - how about these Palestinian Arabs tossing rockets against the Israelis where sometimes they explode in schools? How about them blowing themselves up in crowds during intifada? That is not 'genocide' in your book?

Please again, if you are getting information about Israel from any news/TV outlets starting with 'Al', aka Al Jazeera, I would totally count on getting 100% fabricated, one sided info about Israel.[/QUOTE]

I don't watch Al Jazira. Again the reports I read are all published in Gulf newspapers no doubt but reproduced pieces of Western journalists from newspapers like The Telegraph or The Guardian. Of course, it is very easy to dismiss all these reports as rubbish on a collective basis. Similarly, I can also dismiss the sources of news you get about Israel as rubbish.


Sir, the headache of Pakistan for the US is that it is almost a failed state. Americans are very worried about the N bomb and material falling in to the hands of the islamic nuts. If they do, that will have great implications for the world (especially India). So they do not have much options in Pakistan, except to back the military the only half decent institution in Pakistan. This is why they are spending the money. They probably banked on Benazir, but then you know what happened. Again, your assumptions about USA/Israel 'nexus' is wrong. USA follows her own ineterests when it comes to Pakistan. Nothing else.

I have nothing more to add than what I have stated before.


You are obviously fed a one sided story, because you live in a gulf country. Israel's strikes are after she is attacked by these nuts.

I doubt it. Israel's attacks on these colonies are continuous and not after some attacks by these "nuts". And unfortunately it is the civilian population which is paying the price. And what does it tell us. The children of today's slain civilians are probably going to become tomorrow's terrorists and continue to haunt them. So where is the end to all this?



This is where you are wrong - both Syria and Iran have proxies in lebanon. Egypt allows illegal smuggling of weapons in to Gaza through tunnels. Jordan, though not threatening, has a huge Palestinian refugee population. Given the history of the jewish people they have every right to be 'paranoid'. I do not think that any of us who haven't walked in their shoes can preach to them about how to defend themselves.

If they are practicing a covert war, isn't Israel practicing a overt war with the help of USA? So where is the end?


Again, your inference is wrong. They both are very strong allies, scratching each other's backs on mutual interests.

If both of us are able to reach this conclusion, I am happy because that is what it exactly is. It is just like a commercial transaction but on a huge scale with very high stakes. My comment is not to put the USA on a saintly pedestal that it is doing all this for the good of the world. In fact, my opinion is it is achieving exactly the opposite. At least during the Cold War, we had these two huge powers keeping a check on each other with potential conflicts well under control. Now it is like a wild elephant gone berserk. Everyone can see that it has actually become more unsafe than it was before.
 
Dear sri anadb Ji,

Yes, these will be my last words in our conversation also. Let me sum up:

1. USA and Israel are democracies and nowadays, it is starnge that in the left (controlling certain media) defending oneself is described as arrogance, genocide etc.

2. Regarding the Palestinians, they continue their own peoples misery by not recognizing Israel's right to exist and encouraging throwing rockets indiscriminately against the Israely civilians. They then hide behind civilians that cause damage to their own people. All this because some people make money from UN.

3. On one hand one can not say that US is acting unilaterally and when pointed out about unanimous resolutions passed in UN SC, then say that they do not matter!

4. Regarding Iran, the current Mullahs are not inclined to settle for any peace with Israel and USA. Please read the Ahmadi vision of this crowd running Iran today. It is a renegade regime.

5. World is not a benign place. There is probably only one 'good' power left. I am surprised that you do not see it this way. The only answer is you are reading too many stories from the left. Please try to think in balance - but it is your choice. If you want to continue to believe in one sided ideology, who can stop you? But then, please recognize that you views are not balanced and are full of erroneous conclusions.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Sir,

Your response has forced me to reply though I don't want to make it lengthy. I may be reading lot of left stories but the same goes for you as well. You could be reading a lot of right wing, neo-con propaganda. :lol: In the end, I think that both of us should be in balance. Also to put matters in perspective, I admire America and its people a lot. What I do hate is its political establishment which has started resembling the Indian one of late. The Bush regime with its neo-con hawks was full of spin stories. I know you admire Bush a lot but for me that was the era spelling the beginning of instability throughout the world.
 
Dear anandb Ji Sir,

FYI. I read the following news outlets to get news and opinions: New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Christian Science Monitor, Economic Times, Time, (some times Newsweek). I also read the quarterly 'Foreign Policy' booklet published by Harvard University's FP Institute. In addition I usually watch Public Channel TV, ABC, CNN, Fox and BBC. I tend to put a lot of trust in the coverage of both WSJ and ET more than others as they tend to speak from a neutral perspective.

I do not read any blogs for news and opinions (I follow our own TB blog for Moderation purposes).

So I don't know which one you would term as some 'neo-con' propaganda. (By the way, this term while in vogue at the time of Iraq invasion has not at all been heard since then).

I have no problem if you think that the Palestinian people are oppressed. The only difference between you and me is that you think that a democracy like Israel and USA do that and in my opinion, it is the Arab States and the leadership of these people who are totally responsible for their condition today. But then again, any data about why Israel is acting the way they do will not sway your 'opinion' because you dismiss the other information as 'neo-con'.

You also think that Iran is 'innocent'. Almost all observers in the world do not agree with your assessment. Only a very small number of people in the world think that Iran is using their nuclear program solely for 'peaceful purposes'. So, you seem to conveniently forget that they are the source of destabilizing the middle east and again blame it on USA and Israel. (By the way you also seem to forget that Iran's current regime in the long run is totally against India's interest - please read their Ahmadi doctrine of the current regime). World history since 1900s dictate that if an oppressive fascist regime (like Iran today) goes unchecked, the future is bleak for the entire world. You seem to not understand this.

Finally, it is very fashionable for people to say - 'I like the American people, but I do not like the American regime'. This is bunk, because in foreign policy, Americans always back up the administration - as long as the policy bears fruit. Even today, Americans do not think that the Iraq war was 'immoral' - they backed the war initially with quite a majority. Their support of the war went down only after the results went south, due to the ineptness of Rummsfeld - and this is a topic by itself - and has really has come back after the success of the surge. In other words, American people always have supported wars that serve the county's interest, as long as they do not drag out.

Also I do admire Bush's foreign policies. I did not like his domestic policies. 9/11 happened in his watch. And America during his watch has not been attacked. Most neutral observers give him credit for this.

I fail to see also the similarities between India and USA in their foreign policies. I guess you are against all 'secular' governments' foregn policies.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sir,

Your response has forced me to reply though I don't want to make it lengthy. I may be reading lot of left stories but the same goes for you as well. You could be reading a lot of right wing, neo-con propaganda. :lol: In the end, I think that both of us should be in balance. Also to put matters in perspective, I admire America and its people a lot. What I do hate is its political establishment which has started resembling the Indian one of late. The Bush regime with its neo-con hawks was full of spin stories. I know you admire Bush a lot but for me that was the era spelling the beginning of instability throughout the world.
 
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Interesting analysis in STRATFOR

NOBEL GEOPOLITICS

By George Friedman
U.S. President Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize last week. Alfred Nobel, the inventor of dynamite, established the prize, which was to be awarded to the person who has accomplished “the most or the best work for fraternity among nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the promotion of peace congresses.” The mechanism for awarding the peace prize is very different from the other Nobel categories. Academic bodies, such as the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, decide who wins the other prizes. Alfred Nobel’s will stated, however, that a committee of five selected by the Norwegian legislature, or Storting, should award the peace prize.
Related Series
• Special Series: Obama’s Foreign Policy Landscape
The committee that awarded the peace price to Obama consists of chairman Thorbjorn Jagland, president of the Storting and former Labor Party prime minister and foreign minister of Norway; Kaci Kullmann Five, a former member of the Storting and president of the Conservative Party; Sissel Marie Ronbeck, a former Social Democratic member of the Storting; Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, a former member of the Storting and current senior adviser to the Progress Party; and Agot Valle, a current member of the Storting and spokeswoman on foreign affairs for the Socialist Left Party.
The peace prize committee is therefore a committee of politicians, some present members of parliament, some former members of parliament. Three come from the left (Jagland, Ronbeck and Valle). Two come from the right (Kullman and Ytterhorn). It is reasonable to say that the peace prize committee faithfully reproduces the full spectrum of Norwegian politics.
A Frequently Startling Prize
Prize recipients frequently have proved startling. For example, the first U.S. president to receive the prize was Theodore Roosevelt, who received it in 1906 for helping negotiate peace between Japan and Russia. Roosevelt genuinely sought peace, but ultimately because of American fears that an unbridled Japan would threaten U.S. interests in the Pacific. He sought peace to ensure that Japan would not eliminate Russian power in the Pacific and not hold Port Arthur or any of the other prizes of the Russo-Japanese War. To achieve this peace, he implied that the United States might intervene against Japan.
In brokering negotiations to try to block Japan from exploiting its victory over the Russians, Roosevelt was engaged in pure power politics. The Japanese were in fact quite bitter at the American intervention. (For their part, the Russians were preoccupied with domestic unrest.) But a treaty emerged from the talks, and peace prevailed. Though preserving a balance of power in the Pacific motivated Roosevelt, the Nobel committee didn’t seem to care. And given that Alfred Nobel didn’t provide much guidance about his intentions for the prize, choosing Roosevelt was as reasonable as the choices for most Nobel Peace Prizes.
In recent years, the awards have gone to political dissidents the committee approved of, such as the Dalai Lama and Lech Walesa, or people supporting causes it agreed with, such as Al Gore. Others were peacemakers in the Theodore Roosevelt mode, such as Le Duc Tho and Henry Kissinger for working toward peace in Vietnam and Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin for moving toward peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.
Two things must be remembered about the Nobel Peace Prize. The first is that Nobel was never clear about his intentions for it. The second is his decision to have it awarded by politicians from — and we hope the Norwegians will accept our advance apologies — a marginal country relative to the international system. This is not meant as a criticism of Norway, a country we have enjoyed in the past, but the Norwegians sometimes have an idiosyncratic way of viewing the world.
Therefore, the award to Obama was neither more or less odd than some of the previous awards made by five Norwegian politicians no one outside of Norway had ever heard of. But his win does give us an opportunity to consider an important question, namely, why Europeans generally think so highly of Obama.
Obama and the Europeans
Let’s begin by being careful with the term European. Eastern Europeans and Russians — all Europeans — do not think very highly of him. The British are reserved on the subject. But on the whole, other Europeans west of the former Soviet satellites and south and east of the English Channel think extremely well of him, and the Norwegians are reflecting this admiration. It is important to understand why they do.
The Europeans experienced catastrophes during the 20th century. Two world wars slaughtered generations of Europeans and shattered Europe’s economy. Just after the war, much of Europe maintained standards of living not far above that of the Third World. In a sense, Europe lost everything — millions of lives, empires, even sovereignty as the United States and the Soviet Union occupied and competed in Europe. The catastrophe of the 20th century defines Europe, and what the Europeans want to get away from.
The Cold War gave Europe the opportunity to recover economically, but only in the context of occupation and the threat of war between the Soviets and Americans. A half century of Soviet occupation seared Eastern European souls. During that time, the rest of Europe lived in a paradox of growing prosperity and the apparent imminence of another war. The Europeans were not in control of whether the war would come, or where or how it would be fought. There are therefore two Europes. One, the Europe that was first occupied by Nazi Germany and then by the Soviet Union still lives in the shadow of the dual catastrophes. The other, larger Europe, lives in the shadow of the United States.
Between 1945 and 1991, Western Europe lived in a confrontation with the Soviets. The Europeans lived in dread of Soviet occupation, and though tempted, never capitulated to the Soviets. That meant that the Europeans were forced to depend on the United States for their defense and economic stability, and were therefore subject to America’s will. How the Americans and Russians viewed each other would determine whether war would break out, not what the Europeans thought.
Every aggressive action by the United States, however trivial, was magnified a hundredfold in European minds, as they considered fearfully how the Soviets would respond. In fact, the Americans were much more restrained during the Cold War than Europeans at the time thought. Looking back, the U.S. position in Europe itself was quite passive. But the European terror was that some action in the rest of the world — Cuba, the Middle East, Vietnam — would cause the Soviets to respond in Europe, costing them everything they had built up.
In the European mind, the Americans prior to 1945 were liberators. After 1945 they were protectors, but protectors who could not be trusted to avoid triggering another war through recklessness or carelessness. The theme dominating European thinking about the United States was that the Americans were too immature, too mercurial and too powerful to really be trusted. From an American point of view, these were the same Europeans who engaged in unparalleled savagery between 1914 and 1945 all on their own, and the period after 1945 — when the Americans dominated Europe — was far more peaceful and prosperous than the previous period. But the European conviction that the Europeans were the sophisticated statesmen and prudent calculators while the Americans were unsophisticated and imprudent did not require an empirical basis. It was built on another reality, which was that Europe had lost everything, including real control over its fate, and that trusting its protector to be cautious was difficult.
The Europeans loathed many presidents, e.g., Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan. Jimmy Carter was not respected. Two were liked: John F. Kennedy and Bill Clinton. Kennedy relieved them of the burden of Dwight D. Eisenhower and his dour Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, who was deeply distrusted. Clinton was liked for interesting reasons, and understanding this requires examining the post-Cold War era.
The United States and Europe After the Cold War
The year 1991 marked the end of the Cold War. For the first time since 1914, Europeans were prosperous, secure and recovering their sovereignty. The United States wanted little from the Europeans, something that delighted the Europeans. It was a rare historical moment in which the alliance existed in some institutional sense, but not in any major active form. The Balkans had to be dealt with, but those were the Balkans — not an area of major concern.
Europe could finally relax. Another world war would not erase its prosperity, and they were free from active American domination. They could shape their institutions, and they would. It was the perfect time for them, one they thought would last forever.
For the United States, 9/11 changed all that. The Europeans had deep sympathy for the United States post-Sept. 11, sympathy that was on the whole genuine. But the Europeans also believed that former U.S. President George W. Bush had overreacted to the attacks, threatening to unleash a reign of terror on them, engaging in unnecessary wars and above all not consulting them. The last claim was not altogether true: Bush frequently consulted the Europeans, but they frequently said no to his administration’s requests. The Europeans were appalled that Bush continued his policies in spite of their objections; they felt they were being dragged back into a Cold War-type situation for trivial reasons.
The Cold War revolved around Soviet domination of Europe. In the end, whatever the risks, the Cold War was worth the risk and the pain of U.S. domination. But to Europeans, the jihadist threat simply didn’t require the effort the United States was prepared to put into it. The United States seemed unsophisticated and reckless, like cowboys.
The older European view of the United States re-emerged, as did the old fear. Throughout the Cold War, the European fear was that a U.S. miscalculation would drag the Europeans into another catastrophic war. Bush’s approach to the jihadist war terrified them and deepened their resentment. Their hard-earned prosperity was in jeopardy again because of the Americans, this time for what the Europeans saw as an insufficient reason. The Americans were once again seen as overreacting, Europe’s greatest Cold War-era dread.
For Europe, prosperity had become an end in itself. It is ironic that the Europeans regard the Americans as obsessed with money when it is the Europeans who put economic considerations over all other things. But the Europeans mean something different when they talk about money. For the Europeans, money isn’t about piling it higher and higher. Instead, money is about security. Their economic goal is not to become wealthy but to be comfortable. Today’s Europeans value economic comfort above all other considerations. After Sept. 11, the United States seemed willing to take chances with the Europeans’ comfortable economic condition that the Europeans themselves didn’t want to take. They loathed George W. Bush for doing so.
Conversely, they love Obama because he took office promising to consult with them. They understood this promise in two ways. One was that in consulting the Europeans, Obama would give them veto power. Second, they understood him as being a president like Kennedy, namely, as one unwilling to take imprudent risks. How they remember Kennedy that way given the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis and the coup against Diem in Vietnam is hard to fathom, but of course, many Americans remember him the same way. The Europeans compare Obama to an imaginary Kennedy, but what they really think is that he is another Clinton.
Clinton was Clinton because of the times he lived in and not because of his nature: The collapse of the Soviet Union created a peaceful interregnum in which Clinton didn’t need to make demands on Europe’s comfortable prosperity. George W. Bush lived in a different world, and that caused him to resume taking risks and making demands.
Obama does not live in the 1990s. He is facing Afghanistan, Iran and a range of other crisis up to and including a rising Russia that looks uncannily similar to the old Soviet Union. It is difficult to imagine how he can face these risks without taking actions that will be counter to the European wish to be allowed to remain comfortable, and worse, without ignoring the European desire to avoid what they will see as unreasonable U.S. demands. In fact, U.S.-German relations already are not particularly good on Obama’s watch. Obama has asked for troops in Afghanistan and been turned down, and has continued to call for NATO expansion, which the Germans don’t want.
The Norwegian politicians gave their prize to Obama because they believed that he would leave Europeans in their comfortable prosperity without making unreasonable demands. That is their definition of peace, and Obama seemed to promise that. The Norwegians on the prize committee seem unaware of the course U.S.-German relations have taken, or of Afghanistan and Iran. Alternatively, perhaps they believe Obama can navigate those waters without resorting to war. In that case, it is difficult to imagine what they make of the recent talks with Iran or planning on Afghanistan.
The Norwegians awarded the Nobel Peace Prize to the president of their dreams, not the president who is dealing with Iran and Afghanistan. Obama is not a free actor. He is trapped by the reality he has found himself in, and that reality will push him far away from the Norwegian fantasy. In the end, the United States is the United States — and that is Europe’s nightmare, because the United States is not obsessed with maintaining Europe’s comfortable prosperity. The United States cannot afford to be, and in the end, neither can President Obama, Nobel Peace Prize or not.
 
interesting news.

though may not a good one. hopefully, our TB kids do not forsake US.

i do not mean it from a pro american viewpoint, as much as the opportunities, the assistantships and above all the quality of eduction - i think the u.s. is still top notch.

i do not know much about australia.

perhaps what attracts indian students there is the weather and visa offer.

it is more processing to get the immigrant status in the u.s. though here too it is achievable, as is proved by the thousands every year who get it.

singapore is too small a place to accommodate the thousands of indian students. i cannot think of any other english speaking country barring u.k. and canada, and here too the admission is saturated.

maybe the drop in numbers, is more a reflection of the economic climate? or population drop ?
 
It is definitely the economic climate; many Indian students, fearing that they will not get jobs (or part-time jobs during studying), are backing out of looking at US education for higher studies. The US universities are also feeling the pinch and the number of TA/GA/RA and fellowships have gone down.

interesting news.

though may not a good one. hopefully, our TB kids do not forsake US.

i do not mean it from a pro american viewpoint, as much as the opportunities, the assistantships and above all the quality of eduction - i think the u.s. is still top notch.

i do not know much about australia.

perhaps what attracts indian students there is the weather and visa offer.

it is more processing to get the immigrant status in the u.s. though here too it is achievable, as is proved by the thousands every year who get it.

singapore is too small a place to accommodate the thousands of indian students. i cannot think of any other english speaking country barring u.k. and canada, and here too the admission is saturated.

maybe the drop in numbers, is more a reflection of the economic climate? or population drop ?
 
Still USA, Canada, Australia/Newzealand, Gulf coutries are the best options for our youngsters. According to Mckensey report, US economy is likely to revive from 2012.

European Union (Other than UK) is planning to give resident permit shortly as they face shortage of high end technical manpower. Europe has excellent social security structure. Post graduate education in Germany is totally government funded and there is no tuition fee. They give work permit to earn for the living. Students should consider that option also. Post graduation can be done with English language.

Singapore has one problem. They will give Permanent resident status and later citizenship. But the next generation boys have to do two year compulsory national service (Military) after the age of 18. Girls are exempted. Otherwise it is a wonderful place except that owning a car is very costly. Public transport is excellent. Tamil is the official language and public places will have Tamil name boards also. Singapore scores very high except the national service obligation.

Finally getting out of India is the best option for our youngsters.

All the best
 
Still USA, Canada, Australia/Newzealand, Gulf coutries are the best options for our youngsters. According to Mckensey report, US economy is likely to revive from 2012.

European Union (Other than UK) is planning to give resident permit shortly as they face shortage of high end technical manpower. Europe has excellent social security structure. Post graduate education in Germany is totally government funded and there is no tuition fee. They give work permit to earn for the living. Students should consider that option also. Post graduation can be done with English language.

Singapore has one problem. They will give Permanent resident status and later citizenship. But the next generation boys have to do two year compulsory national service (Military) after the age of 18. Girls are exempted. Otherwise it is a wonderful place except that owning a car is very costly. Public transport is excellent. Tamil is the official language and public places will have Tamil name boards also. Singapore scores very high except the national service obligation.

Finally getting out of India is the best option for our youngsters.

All the best

venkat,

we seem to be on a duet this morning on several topics :)

i agree with you 100% re at this juncture of India, our TB youth are better off emigrating.

the gufl countries are great places to make some money and to bring up the children till high school. after that the choice has to be made between the west or india for college education.

we now have almost continuous flow from our community to the u.s. since late 1950s. i think i can safely say, that atleast one member in every TB family is abroad.

i know of relatives, who while working in gulf or s'pore, secured their immigrant status in canada, came here, checked out and rejected canada.

i have several relatives in s'pore. those with the boys, are just completing the first wave of military service. all in all, there appears to be a positive aspect to the service ie it makes a 'man' out of a previous wimp.

my nephews, wrung out of the s'pore military establishment, have lost their thoppais, smartened up both in stature and fashion, attained self confidence and above all are openly interested in girls :)

sure enough there is a loss of 2 prime years.. but with life expectancy to reach 90+, 2 years may not be such a big deal (?).

i am sure relieved that my children are brought up abroad. for purely selfish reasons. my own social philosophy would be at loggerheads with my TB family and peers.

outside, in tamil nadu, the children would feel all the heat of a brahmin heritage, even though their father has denied it. the ancestors' sins appear to still have a long standing debits for many many years to come.
 
Kunjuppu ji,

My views are in blue


venkat,

we seem to be on a duet this morning on several topics :)

i agree with you 100% re at this juncture of India, our TB youth are better off emigrating.

the gufl countries are great places to make some money and to bring up the children till high school. after that the choice has to be made between the west or india for college education.

Dubai knowledge village has excellent colleges now.

Dubai Knowledge Village

BITS Dubai | Home

Universities from Uk, Australia, India have shops in the knowledge village. BITS, Pilani (One of the best instituions belonging to Birla group has a centre at Dubai)

London Business School and SP Jain, Mumbai has campuses at Dubai.

Higher education is not a problem in Dubai nowadays
.

we now have almost continuous flow from our community to the u.s. since late 1950s. i think i can safely say, that atleast one member in every TB family is abroad.

i know of relatives, who while working in gulf or s'pore, secured their immigrant status in canada, came here, checked out and rejected canada.

i have several relatives in s'pore. those with the boys, are just completing the first wave of military service. all in all, there appears to be a positive aspect to the service ie it makes a 'man' out of a previous wimp.

my nephews, wrung out of the s'pore military establishment, have lost their thoppais, smartened up both in stature and fashion, attained self confidence and above all are openly interested in girls :)

sure enough there is a loss of 2 prime years.. but with life expectancy to reach 90+, 2 years may not be such a big deal (?).

Singapore is the mixture of Indian culture and western discipline. I have visited USA, Europe and Singapore.

I like Germany very much.

But Singapore is really wonderful. One can enjoy speaking in our mother tongue, enjoy our food every where, almost our climate and at the same time you can enjoy the cleanliness, discipline and the systems working perfectly or I would say better than western world.


i am sure relieved that my children are brought up abroad. for purely selfish reasons. my own social philosophy would be at loggerheads with my TB family and peers.

outside, in tamil nadu, the children would feel all the heat of a brahmin heritage, even though their father has denied it. the ancestors' sins appear to still have a long standing debits for many many years to come.

We have migrated from agraharams to cosmopolitan cities. Why not migrate to multi cultural society.

All the best
 
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Mr. Venkataramaniji is partly right about Dubai schools and colleges. As I have been living in this part of the world for a donkey number of years let me add a few thoughts. A lot of these institutions have come up and no doubt they offer quality education but when it comes to cutting edge education parents and their wards still prefer the West and to some extent India. I think India teaches survival skills like none other something the Dubai bred children need to learn a lot. The comforting thing is Indian children even from the Gulf adapt well. There was this friend's son (born/brought up in Gulf) who joined REC Trichy and was explaining a nightmare scenario of dilapidated accommodation, bad student to toilet ratio and broken furniture (he and his parents cleaned the dorm room themselves before he joined) but was still loving it because the quality of teaching is very good. Still, compared to the scene five years ago where it was mandatory for children to go out and study, the situation in Dubai is much better now. This place has got the means to create good infrastructure but what they need is quality teaching staff.
 
இன்று அமெரிக்க வெள்ளை மாளிகையில், ஒபாமா வேத மந்திரங்கள் முழங்க,, விளக்கேற்றி தீபாவளி கொண்டாடினாராம்.இது போல் எந்த அமெரிக்க ஜனாதிபதியும் பிற மதத்துப் பண்டிகைகளைக் கொண்டாடியது இல்லையாம்.அதாவது, அங்கீகரித்தது இல்லை என்பது கரு!

இந்தியா என்றால், ஜாதிச் சண்டை, மதச் சண்டை , வெட்டு குத்து, கலவரம் என்ற சான்றிதழ் இந்த மேதகு பிரகஸ்பதி அமெரிக்காவும், அதன் எடுபிடிகளும் வழங்கியிருந்தாலும்,அங்கே எங்கள் கருணாநிதி, ஒரு ஹிந்துவாக இருந்தாலும், ரம்ஜான் கஞ்சியை உறிஞ்சிக் கொண்டே, ஹிந்து மதத்தைக் கொச்சைப்படுத்திய வரலாறு ஏராளம்.சோனியா கூட சமீபத்தில், ராவணலீலாவில் பங்கு கொண்டு, ராமர், லெட்சுமணராக வந்த குழந்தைகளுக்கு மரியாதை செலுத்தினார்.மன்மோகன் சிங்கும் அது போல் செய்திருக்கிறார்.நமது உள்ளூர் அரசியல்வாதிகளும் அவ்வப்போதெல்லாம், கிருஸ்துமஸ் ரம்ஜான் அன்று தசாவதாரம் எடுப்பதெல்லாம் சர்வ சாதரணம்.அது போல் நடக்கவில்லை என்றால் தான் செய்தி!

ஆனால், மதச்சார்பின்மை, மனித உரிமை, கருத்துச் சுதந்திரக் கோமான், அமெரிக்காவில், கிருஸ்துவ நிகழ்ச்சிகளைத் தவிர, வேறு எந்த மதத்தின் நிகழ்ச்சிகளையும், பண்டிகைகளையும் ஒரு ஜனாதிபதி அளவில்,இது வரை அங்கீகரிக்கவில்லை என்பது, ஒபாமா தீபாவளி கொண்டாடியதில் கண்கூடு!

உபதேசம் ஊருக்குத் தானடி பெண்ணே, உனக்கும் எனக்கும் இல்லையடி என்பது தானே, இந்தச் சகுனியின் அடிப்படை சித்தாந்தம்!,


I say a news piece saying that, Obama celebrated Diwali , amidst chanting of vedas..I also understand, no sitting president of US, before Obama, had ever recognised other religions festivals like Diwali..

India, said to be known for caste, religious clashes, arson and certified by the rt H'ble americans,and their sycophants ,is just like that practicing this.Even our Karunanithi, a hindu used to participate in Ramjan related functions but simultaneously mudslinging the hinduism, or Sonia or Manmohan honouring the raman lakshmanan avathars during ravana leela, are quite common.In India. It is news only when it is not done.

But America, said to be practicing equality in all spheres, do not generally recognise other religions's sentiments, save Obama.

These guys are experts in practicing the secularism, equality more in breach than in practice . After all their advises are meant for others..less privileged but not for them.

May be!!
 
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