Sankararaman murder case - Kanchi Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswati acquitted

[kunjuppu]

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Mr Asirvadam - Could you kindly share if you are a Hindu just so we know a bit of your background?

Thanks

tks, asirvadam, has identified himself previously here, as a christian, married to a tambram lady.

 

[Vaagmi]

1. The seers or the Matam do not owe any explanation to anyone beyond what they presented to the court of law. For those who revere him nothing has changed. For those that dont this verdict has not changed anything. There will always be those that would want to nail a public figure. Such is life. Best is to ignore those people in my view

2. Yes

2b) The public here at large is corrupt and/or promote one of the most corrupt systems of life in the world. They do not deserve any explanation. If the Pope was arrested on Christmas eve without due process there will be Christians of all denomination that will demand proper accountability of the law enforcement team. In this instance mainly non Hindu leaders registered proper protests days after the incident.

How a person is living up to the ideals of a Sannyasi role is not something that can be judged by people from outside based on what they appear to do. The private jet may hold a big value for a Samsari and may mean nothing to a Sannyasi except as another means of transportation. What may appear strange to a Samsari may not mean anything to a true Sannyasi. So all I say is that there will be always people doing the judging and reinforcing their opinion of the seer. The best thing for the Matam to do is to ignore all such opinions and comments. I personally do not know the details, nor do I know all the activities of the Matam etc. I do not go about judging and if others want to judge the public figure let them


Finally let the state order a new investigation preferably by a non-corrupt organization if such an organization could be found in India

tks,

You can hold on to your views. No problem.

You have said this:"Finally let the state order a new investigation preferably by a non-corrupt organization if such an organization could be found in India".

That is a heavily loaded statement. That would prompt only one reply. That is this: There is no such non-corrupt organization in India and so there is no need for this investigation afresh". Every one can go their way happy that nothing has really happened chanting Jaya jaya sankara, hara hara sankara.

Any way I have no stake. So I am not bothered. Thanks.

 

[tks]

tks, asirvadam, has identified himself previously here, as a christian, married to a tambram lady.

Thanks, K

 

[tks]

tks,

.
.
.
That is this: There is no such non-corrupt organization in India and so there is no need for this investigation afresh". Every one can go their way happy that nothing has really happened chanting Jaya jaya sankara, hara hara sankara.

Any way I have no stake. So I am not bothered. Thanks.

There is nothing to be happy about an unsolved murder case ...

 

[Nara]

....In the end I sincerely believe that the world appears cynical if we are so - this is not an attack but something to reflect on in matters like this

It ain't so just because you say so, is it??? tks, you are saying I am cynical and adding this is not an attack. Please don't go there, it is the starting point of a slippery slope. Take a look at auh's response post #192, he/she is holding my feet to fire without making one remark about me the person, I appreciate that, that is the way to do it.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

It appears that many who have been raising questions have not been following the case much and are just going with news paper reports and unfavorable blogs. Perhaps it will help to read the full high court judgment if and when available. Or one may choose to consider others not sharing their concern as blind (but take offense on being called "cynical") and be happy with oneself!

 

[sangom]

It appears that many who have been raising questions have not been following the case much and are just going with news paper reports and unfavorable blogs. Perhaps it will help to read the full high court judgment if and when available. Or one may choose to consider others not sharing their concern as blind (but take offense on being called "cynical") and be happy with oneself!

Which high court please?

 

[Nara]

Dear sir,The crux of the matter is that the investigation had taken off on a single lead without eliminating the alternatives which is the characteristic of an unbiased probe. This, in my view, undermines the whole exercise. I am sure you would agree.

Dear auh, couple of points,

[1] You have a valid point about ICICI bank and money payment. I am satisfied with your answer. The rest are kind of weak, I think. When there is strong motive and opportunity pointing clearly towards the seer it is not unreasonable for the police to follow this one lead more vigorously, and even exclusively. Just because it seems all too easy does not make it invalid, surely . The blog you have cited is obviously not unbiased (a double negative for you ). I can cite several blogs that argue the other side, and they may be equally biased towards the other side.

[2] I am going to make a general comment, not directed at you auh, it is easy for those who are relieved by the verdict to say due judicial process was followed and a learned Judge has given the verdict. To them, raising the open questions that still remain is speculative gossip free of evidence. But, how much confidence is the justice system in India is entitled to in the minds of common people? Here I give you a comment that was made earlier by tks:

Finally let the state order a new investigation preferably by a non-corrupt organization if such an organization could be found in India

The system is corrupt and everyone knows it. Even Supreme Court Chief Justice P. Sathasivam thinks so. Here is what he says about corruption in the judiciary in this interview.

I should fairly admit that the judiciary is not untouched by corruption. When we take the oath as judge, we swear to be fair and impartial in all our judicial functions. However, on some occasions in the past, few judges have wilfully dishonoured the oath by adopting to corrupt practices. The solution for eliminating this disorder lies in the hands of the litigants. The litigants must take the responsibility for bringing into light such occurrence by making a grievance petition before the Chief Justice of respective High Courts and also to the Chief Justice of India. If a prima facie case is made out through the preliminary enquiry, then the judge should not feel hesitant to adopt the prescribed procedure under the mandate of Constitution.​

Sadly, he places the responsibility upon the litigants. How could a poor widow fight back?

The rich and the powerful always get away. That is why people are unable to simply accept the verdict. If Tarun Tejpal is able to get away on technicalities would these learned people be equally willing to give him the stamp of "innocent"? Up to this point all we have is he-said/she-said with no forensic evidence. Why is their a clamour to punish him right now, forget about trial or due process, let us just hang him from the nearest tree. Please note, I am persuaded by the victim and I hope the prosecution is not as inept (or corrupt?) as in the Sankararaman case and delivers justice.

 

[Nara]

It appears that many who have been raising questions have not been following the case much and are just going with news paper reports and unfavorable blogs. Perhaps it will help to read the full high court judgment if and when available. Or one may choose to consider others not sharing their concern as blind (but take offense on being called "cynical") and be happy with oneself!

Oh KB, you love me don't you, you can't help yourself but to read every word I write and look through it with a fine tooth comb to see on which word you can comment on.

I am happy to have to you as another dear brother.

lots of love to you, my dear brother KB

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Not only that. The Aacharyaas innocence would have been proved beyond doubt. Further, it may be funny question, but a question it is: Whether Sankarraman was killed or he is alive.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Oh KB, you love me don't you, you can't help yourself but to read every word I write and look through it with a fine tooth comb to see on which word you can comment on.
I am happy to have to you as another dear brother.
lots of love to you, my dear brother KB

Dear Nara,

All I am saying is please wait for the court judgment to be available to the public which may answer most of your questions. Had you read the supreme court judgment that granted bail, you would have already known about the falsification of bank account.

You do not have to consider me as your brother to have a decent conversation. Just practice what you preach. We will be fine!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Which high court please?

OK! Pondicherry Sessions court that acquitted all the accused. Reading the judgment copy could help understand why the court did not consider the validity of the questions raised here.

 

[Nara]

.... Just practice what you preach. We will be fine!

Another swipe from my dear brother KB, so predictable. I preach love for all, and I shall practice it as you command, lots of love to you dear KB ..... even if you keep on pissing on me like a baby pissing on a loving brother ....

 

[tks]

It ain't so just because you say so, is it??? tks, you are saying I am cynical and adding this is not an attack. Please don't go there, it is the starting point of a slippery slope. Take a look at auh's response post #192, he/she is holding my feet to fire without making one remark about me the person, I appreciate that, that is the way to do it.

Nara - A larger point indeed that is not really a slippery slope.
In Jury selection here in the USA both parties tend to assess our attitudes since the world appears as we tend to be,
We all have all human characteristic including being cynical, critical, generous, loving and many more such attributes.

We dont remain liberal or cynical or whatever all the time but some of the time.

Based on how we are we tend to see the world. This applies to all human beings - that is my point.

It was not aimed at you though I can see how my words may have led to you interpret that way.

Regards

 

[tks]

Dear auh, couple of points,

.
.
.


But, how much confidence is the justice system in India is entitled to in the minds of common people? Here I give you a comment that was made earlier by tks:

The system is corrupt and everyone knows it. Even Supreme Court Chief Justice P. Sathasivam thinks so. Here is what he says about corruption in the judiciary in this interview.

I should fairly admit that the judiciary is not untouched by corruption. When we take the oath as judge, we swear to be fair and impartial in all our judicial functions. However, on some occasions in the past, few judges have wilfully dishonoured the oath by adopting to corrupt practices. The solution for eliminating this disorder lies in the hands of the litigants. The litigants must take the responsibility for bringing into light such occurrence by making a grievance petition before the Chief Justice of respective High Courts and also to the Chief Justice of India. If a prima facie case is made out through the preliminary enquiry, then the judge should not feel hesitant to adopt the prescribed procedure under the mandate of Constitution.​

Sadly, he places the responsibility upon the litigants. How could a poor widow fight back?

The rich and the powerful always get away. That is why people are unable to simply accept the verdict. If Tarun Tejpal is able to get away on technicalities would these learned people be equally willing to give him the stamp of "innocent"? Up to this point all we have is he-said/she-said with no forensic evidence. Why is their a clamour to punish him right now, forget about trial or due process, let us just hang him from the nearest tree. Please note, I am persuaded by the victim and I hope the prosecution is not as inept (or corrupt?) as in the Sankararaman case and delivers justice.

Nara - Please do not twist my words beyond what I have stated.

Let me repeat - you along with everyone here want justice served. There is not single member (and not just you) who want the murderers caught and punished. Seers want the same thing too.

The state government and entire institution is corrupt. There are posts after posts including eloquent explanations by Sri Auh (and I am paraphrasing) as to how focusing on one one high profile target without due process of investigation has not served justice. You may have hanged the Seers already in your mind with whatever 'evidence' there is and hence may be thinking that they got away and the poor victim has no recourse.

You are entitled to your point of view.

The seers cannot do anything about this though if I were their advocate I would counsel them to use money to investigate with independent means to find the truth.

 

[auh]

...I can cite several blogs that argue the other side, and they may be equally biased towards the other side.

I dont endorse the blog, but only that the contents pertaining to this particular case which could perhaps stand an unbiased verification (RTI).

But, how much confidence is the justice system in India is entitled to in the minds of common people? ...The system is corrupt and everyone knows it. Even Supreme Court Chief Justice P. Sathasivam thinks so...

If this is a problem, it is a issue for everyone and not only for the family of Sankararaman.

...How could a poor widow fight back?

It never was a poor widow's case from the beginning. There is more to it than meets the eye.

The rich and the powerful always get away. That is why people are unable to simply accept the verdict.... Please note, I am persuaded by the victim and I hope the prosecution is not as inept (or corrupt?) as in the Sankararaman case and delivers justice.

I too empathise with the victim (any victim, for that matter) and can imagine the agony caused by unnatural forces. But let it not guide me to victimise another innocent...

Regards,

 

[Nara]

....I too empathise with the victim (any victim, for that matter) and can imagine the agony caused by unnatural forces. But let it not guide me to victimise another innocent...

auh, we are back to where we started, with so many open questions I don't think demanding answers from the seers amounts to "victimise another innocent". Of course, now that they have been cleared by the court they don't have to answer to anybody. That would be alright if these are private citizens, but they are public figures who wield enormous political, social, and economic power. So, they cannot be deemed to be innocent as long as important questions remain unanswered.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

...even if you keep on pissing on me ....

Your anger prevents you from seeing your own hypocrisy. Next time you rant about "civility" people cannot help but chuckle. LOL!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The seers cannot do anything about this though if I were their advocate I would counsel them to use money to investigate with independent means to find the truth.

I do not think this is a wise advice. The seers or the Mutt do not have the legal authority to investigate. It is better to put money and efforts into social projects for the poor and needy as you had mentioned before!

 

[Nara]

Your anger prevents you from seeing your own hypocrisy. Next time you rant about "civility" people cannot help but chuckle. LOL!

Even when I send love your way you see anger in it. No KB, I am not angry at all, I mean it, it is not a rant, what I preach is universal love and I certainly like to practice it, no hypocrisy, cross my heart and hope to die.

with all sincerity, lots of love to you my dear brother KB ....

 

[கால பைரவன்]

It never was a poor widow's case from the beginning.

Somehow this point is overlooked. The argument of "rich and powerful getting away" has no merit when the other party is the all powerful government! The poor widow and the rest of Sankararaman's family have been used as pawns and that is quite sad.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Even when I send love your way you see anger in it. No KB, I am not angry at all, I mean it, it is not a rant, what I preach is universal love and I certainly like to practice it, no hypocrisy, cross my heart and hope to die.

with all sincerity, lots of love to you my dear brother KB ....

That is not the hypocrisy I am talking about. You have problems when people use the word "cynical" but you have no issue in calling others blind, pissing etc etc. That is the hypocrisy I am talking about.

 

[kunjuppu]

Somehow this point is overlooked. The argument of "rich and powerful getting away" has no merit when the other party is the all powerful government! The poor widow and the rest of Sankararaman's family have been used as pawns and that is quite sad.

KB,

can you pls shed some light as to why the all powerful government would wish to facilitate the killing of Sankararaman in order to malign the good name of kanchi mutt? there is a rhyme and reason for everything. what did kanchi do, so that a person needed to get killed in broad daylight and a whole slew of people were accused for it. is it a conspiracy plot? thanks.

 

[Nara]

That is not the hypocrisy I am talking about. You have problems when people use the word "cynical" but you have no issue in calling others blind, pissing etc etc. That is the hypocrisy I am talking about.

Cynical, blind, pissing -- is this is all you see? My dear brother KB, don't you see I was only saying you were letting your anger blind you, not that you are blind. I was only saying you are pissing on me and that is alright, I will accept it as a baby pissing on a loving brother. About cynicism, I was only telling tks to not go there as that could be a slippery slope and he has since clarified.

Let go my dear brother, we don't have to see eye-to-eye to be friends. You want to say I am a hypocrite, alright, go ahead and get it out of your system, call me a good for nothing hypocrite of all hypocrites and everyone in this forum knows that for a fact.

After that, let us be friends.

with tons and tons of love to my dear brother KB ......

 

[கால பைரவன்]

KB,

can you pls shed some light as to why the all powerful government would wish to facilitate the killing of Sankararaman in order to malign the good name of kanchi mutt? there is a rhyme and reason for everything. what did kanchi do, so that a person needed to get killed in broad daylight and a whole slew of people were accused for it. is it a conspiracy plot? thanks.

Kunjuppu,

Please note that I am only commenting based on how the investigation was done and how the case was argued. I have not speculated anything about who or which agency actually killed Sankararaman. Naturally I can't!