Sankararaman murder case - Kanchi Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswati acquitted

[Nara]

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.....I find you adopt a vacillating stand sometimes requiring "perception" to have an upper hand when you press home a point which has no legal sanctity and when others point out "perception: you want to apply the rigors of scientific approach.

[...snip....]

So playing on the words of suspicion, residual effects of suspicion, needles of suspicion, burden of suspicion etc, etc, by whatever name you call them are of little value. As per the Law he is as capable as he was before the charge and as pristine as he was before the accusation.

Narayan, I made a clear distinction between court of law and public opinion. In fact I said in an earlier post that the state appealing an acquittal is quite odd, probably amounts to double jeopardy. Perhaps this is because there are no jury trials in India any more, still it sounds very strange. But all that is legal procedure with entirely different standards.

My comments are about public opinion and the cloud that still hangs firmly over the seers. Please take these into consideration before passing judgment like this. I hope you discuss that instead of dwelling on something that I acknowledged right from the beginning.

 

[kunjuppu]

to view something completely different..

Kanimozhi, Raja, Dayalu Ammal are all going to be found innocent re their involvement in the 2G spectrum. Hopefully everyone here, who respects the judgement of law, will have the same attitude then.

... and furthermore, JJ is going to be found innocent of any financial maladmins. Again let us all be grateful to the indian judicial system eh!!

 

[auh]

Dear sir,

auh, please note, the court has acquitted the seers because the state did not prove their case. The standard in a court of law for conviction is, I believe, please correct me if I am wrong, the accusations must be proved beyond reasonable doubt. So, all that we can logically infer from the verdict is some reasonable doubt exists. Your assertion that there is no evidence for guilt is going too far, especially considering so many open questions still exist that link the seers to the case.

Let me add on my layman's observation to this sentence (blue font) - "the accusations must be proved beyond reasonable doubt, by evidences and not by mere speculation"

We can logically infer that

1) There is no reason in the doubt,
2) There is reason in the doubt but not proved in a court of law.

We can have reasonable doubts (RD); in fact, many of them:

RD1 - A certain political bigwig in a party has a score to settle with the matam, and hence all this is but a vendetta game
RD2 - An anti hindu outfit has got a golden duck in the form of this case and sees a potential downward swing for the morale of the hindus if the matam dragged to court. Even if they are not found guilty, they can ensure that enough dirt is raked up to sow seeds of doubt in the fertile grounds of idle imagination among the gullible.
RD3 - Groups within the matam are the actual conspirators as a result of which the Seers are doubted.

As we see presence of RDs by themselves do not lend credence to a thought process unless it is provable with clinching evidences. So I dont think that existence of reasonable doubts should cast aspersions on the Matam/Seers.

I don't think a court acquittal and guilty are mutually exclusive.

That may very well be the case, but pray tell me what other body is capable of delivering justice if you seem to think that courts are incapable.

...There is a distinction between court and public opinion. Public has a right to disagree with the court verdict. They can't do much about it, but they don't have to accept the verdict, they can disagree and be outraged with the verdict.

Yes, I agree. But public opinion is easily formed and dismissed. They are the mob - easily (mis)led by emotions.

I am really surprised that the sishyas have rallied around these two seers who have actually put the institution through so much ignominy. Why can't they demand the appointment of a new seer and these two to step aside? Turn a new leaf, build anew? The mindset is to deify these people and hero worship them. They can do no wrong. Like Nixon claimed, if the president does it, it means it is not illegal. It is this attitude that puts these two individual seers above the institution.

Now you are off the track. We can have all this discussion if the Seers are proven guilty, not based on mere public opinion.

To be sure I have no tears to spare for the institution. My sympathy is for the common bhaktha who murmurs shankara, shankara at the sight of these seers. The seers have betrayed such common ordinary sishyas. Are they entitled to be considered gurus, let alone jagat gurus. But the Hindu mindset is to look at these seers as Adi Shankara incarnate.

This is your personal opinion and not backed by facts or evidence, and hence not much room for discussion.

Regards,

 

[kunjuppu]

... and you thought all this was over...

A Sessions Court on Friday issued summons to five persons in a case relating to assault on Mandaveli S.Radhakrishnan. Kanchi Sankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswati is also facing the charges the case.

Mr. Radhakrishnan, his wife and an attendant were attacked by a gang in his house on September 20, 2002.

In 2005, the Foreshore Estate Police filed a charge sheet against eleven persons, including Jayendra Saraswati, for offences under sections 120-B (criminal conspiracy), 450(house-trespass in order to commit offence), 326(voluntarily causing grievous hurt by dangerous weapons or means) and 307(attempt to murder) read with 37(co- operation by doing one of several acts constituting an offence) of Indian Penal Code.

Court issues fresh summons to five persons in assault case

 

[Nara]

.... So I dont think that existence of reasonable doubts should cast aspersions on the Matam/Seers.

Auh, what you state as RD are pure speculations. Equating them to the real open questions I listed in post #111 -- these are not speculative -- that point to the seers, and rejecting them all in one fell sweep, reveals a certain bias, whether such bias is real or not.

That may very well be the case, but pray tell me what other body is capable of delivering justice if you seem to think that courts are incapable.

I agree that justice can be delivered only in a court of law if it functions according to the letter and spirit of the law, in an impartial way and with due diligence and speed. It is also clear, at least to me, that this prosecution and court failed to deliver justice to the memory of Sankararaman.

Yes, I agree. But public opinion is easily formed and dismissed. They are the mob - easily (mis)led by emotions.

Please, by public opinion I do not mean mob opinion. I am not talking of marauding mob whipped up to a frenzy with emotional pitch. I am talking about well informed section of the general public who has taken the interest to study the case and try to present their views. It is unreasonable to ask them to keep quiet just because a court has acquitted the accused, that too because key witnesses recanted their testimony in suspicious ways, e.g. widow says she changed her testimony because of threats.

Now you are off the track. We can have all this discussion if the Seers are proven guilty, not based on mere public opinion.

Yes, this point is a tangential one. It really does not matter to me. As Sangom observed, the sishayas with their blind devotion do not care for niceties such as Caesar's wife must be above suspicion. But, still, it seems to me, when there is serious and well founded suspicion, not "mere public opinion" as you dismissively state, their continued leadership will be a drag on the Matham. I do realize it is none of my business who the head of the Matham is.

 

[Asirvadam]

Is Jayendra Saraswathi absolutely innocent regarding this murder?

Does he know absolutely nothing about the murder, who murdered and who planned the murder?

Is Jayendra Saraswathi 100% innocent and 0% guilty? If the answer is Yes, he is worthy to continue to head the mutt and worthy of religous honor.

 

[sarang]

"I do realize it is none of my business who the head of the Matham is."

Spark of wisdom!!!​

 

[vgane]

Is Jayendra Saraswathi absolutely innocent regarding this murder?

Does he know absolutely nothing about the murder, who murdered and who planned the murder?

Is Jayendra Saraswathi 100% innocent and 0% guilty? If the answer is Yes, he is worthy to continue to head the mutt and worthy of religous honor.

We can only go by the Rule of law...H.H has been exonerated in court of law..Are you not aware of scales of justice..H.H is innocent in all truth & fairness

 

[mkrishna100]

Is Jayendra Saraswathi absolutely innocent regarding this murder?

Does he know absolutely nothing about the murder, who murdered and who planned the murder?

Is Jayendra Saraswathi 100% innocent and 0% guilty? If the answer is Yes, he is worthy to continue to head the mutt and worthy of religous honor.

From whom to you expect answers to the above questions ?
The Acharyaras have denied their involvement .The courts have acquitted them of all the charges . The followers of Kanchi Mutt are happy that the Acharyars have been cleared of the charges and a section of them also go to the extent of even saying that people who farmed charges against them must openly apologize .
Sankararaman's son is not happy with the verdict so are others who have no affinity with the Mutt or the Achrayas .They feel that the entire trial was a farce . They want the case to be handed over to CBI for an impartial probe or at least the Government must go for an appeal to show its sincerity in this case . The Government is yet to openly talk about this case and its future course of action . Neither is the Chief Opponent DMK opening its mouth on the same .Right now only some DK and other small anti Hindu outfits are openly protesting against the verdict .
Right now DMK/AIADMK are not very much interested in this case and hence I very much doubt whether the Government will go for an appeal or handover the case to CBI for a retrial . In case they decide to go for an appeal or want the CBI to conduct a retrial of this case I have no objection to the same .
People like us can endlessly debate for /against the Acharayas in this case but it will have no legal impact on the outcome of the case whose verdict has already been given .
So decide for yourself whose answer will convince you most .

 

[sarang]

Both mk and jj will not do anything that is seen as patently anti-hindu as it will harm their prospects a lot.

 

[vgane]

JJ has to be bothered about this one..A pro LTTE Catholic leader against whom FBI has issued an arrest warrant

Swamy urges Jaya to take action against ?LTTE operator Gaspar Raj?

 

[tks]

Is Jayendra Saraswathi absolutely innocent regarding this murder?

Does he know absolutely nothing about the murder, who murdered and who planned the murder?

Is Jayendra Saraswathi 100% innocent and 0% guilty? If the answer is Yes, he is worthy to continue to head the mutt and worthy of religous honor.

Mr Asirvadam - Could you kindly share if you are a Hindu just so we know a bit of your background?

Thanks

 

[sathya_9]

much water has flown on this issue by analysing the activities of mutt. .The court has given the judgment on the facts of evidences and material available before it. How far it is within law to discuss this issue when court has decided it the same. Only way is to prefer an appeal by those affected. public opinion and media cannot infuse new thought and comment.

there are two sect of persons.one is conservative and progressive. If Hinduism is to spread we cannot be complecent only with chanting mantras and doing just sandhyavandanam and homa. we have to peform also towards social cause like a missionary and that needs money. We hve to flexible. and that is what the prsent matadibati is doing blending acharam,anushtanam, with social cause.

I just want to ask ones thing to all, when we follow those in politics whose character is itself is openly witnessed and who speak blatant lie, and does not even sacrifice a micropoint of their comforts for selfish ends, can we have a right to analyse a saint who does penance and probagate the hindu religion.

kindly think before you become self criticq

sathyanarayanan
9822262492

 

[sathya_9]

helo friends

i have read the arguments for and against the mutt.

I would say that the present matadhibadi is moving with the needs of the time. when pope does it we appreaciate and when our hindu leader does it we criticise.

the present day needs of spiritualism cannot be compared to yesteryears. the spiritualism is ones side and money is needed for propagating social cause.

Adya Shankara, set out pada yatra on a mission of spreading Hindu religion. That was opposed by those hardheaded prsons who never wanted progressive thought.

The present day see jayendra swamigal is blending religion, acharam, anushtanam with social cause. We dont just spread our religion just by dooing bajan, chanting mantras, and performng homam and nithya karama.

WE reach peopole only if we involve in social cause and that is what the seer is doing in the interest of the coomunity and the hinduism.

A progressives thught always meet oposition and that history has many anectodes.


adv. sathyanarayanan

09822252492 pune.

 

[tks]

This report, if true, is intriguing to me in many levels.

1) First the optics, right after the verdict, the victim's son aghast at the outcome, and the seer off on a private jet. The powerlessness of the victim's son and the power of the seer was in sharp relief. I felt intrigued by it.

When I was growing up the heads of the Mathams used to either walk or be carried in planquin. As times changed the Matam heads didn't find it hard to change with it and adopt new technologies, the mode of transportation being just one example. But somehow, they are unwilling to change some of the old practices that do not have any particular socially redeeming value. In this twenty first century we have caste-based segregation in a school that the founders say is "Inspired by the philosophy of His Holiness, Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi Swamigal, the 68th acharya of Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam".

Welcome to Vidyamandir - Educate-Enlighten-Empower

2) The eligibility criteria for admission to their Veda Patashala includes -- "Admissions are open to all brahmin boys between the age of 7 years and 11 years." I find clinging to jAti discrimination in who can study the vedas but readily adopt modern technology in other aspects of their religious life quite intriguing.

Point 1 continued )Finally, even in the U.S. only the super rich have private jet. In poor India to have ready access to private jet is to have the richest of the rich and the powerful of the powerful at your command. Even though he is a sanyasi, one who has renounced everything in this world, he can yet command so much power and influence. This is indicative of how Brahmins wielded power through the centuries even while the spectrum of Brahmin families included some who were relatively poor at the bottom end. We see all this right in front of our eyes, yet there are some who insist Brahmins never had any power, it is all the upper caste NBs, that is quite intriguing.

I just numbered the points to respond

1) The optics is in the eye of the beholder. I for one think one is innocent unless proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt. So I do not see any connection. Finding the true murderer may not have happened which is sad but this has nothing to do with the Seer. If some people have convicted him already based on so called evidence that the state did not prove in 9 years then the optics will be intriguing and different. But then who cares? There will always be people who are not fair minded in the world in my view.

In any case the Matam is not for you and so opinion of people like you and I who are not active supporters of the Matam or its head is irrelevant in any case.

If a Sannyasi has renounced per tradition then the use of private Jet does not have special value that may be in the mind of a Samsari . The head of the Mutt may have power but that sense of power could have no power on him. That is the most likely possibility and unless there are other issues use of private jet or car or whatever is not a big deal.

2. The Matam is not breaking any known law. It is a private institution supported by private donors and so it is not anyone's business as to what they do.

In the end I sincerely believe that the world appears cynical if we are so - this is not an attack but something to reflect on in matters like this

 

[Brahmanyan]

A judicial verdict releasing all the 23 people accused has been arrived at by the learned Judge after the due process of legal procedures. Hon. Judge has given reasons for releasing all the accused in his detailed verdict.This is a serious criminal case. It is for the prosecution to prove their charges beyond doubt, which is not done in this case. Speculative gossip on the verdict without proper evidence is not correct.

Yes, some one/people have murdered a man in day light in the Temple premises. The culprits should be caught and punished. The Police and investigative agencies should find who they are. Judiciary does not function and give a verdict on public opinion or media judgements. They have to get proper evidence to punish the culprits and prove it in the court of law.

 

[auh]

Dear sir,

Auh, what you state as RD are pure speculations. Equating them to the real open questions I listed in post #111 -- these are not speculative -- that point to the seers, and rejecting them all in one fell sweep, reveals a certain bias, whether such bias is real or not.

The crux of the matter is that the investigation had taken off on a single lead without eliminating the alternatives which is the characteristic of an unbiased probe. This, in my view, undermines the whole exercise. I am sure you would agree. Hence you see my RDs as mere speculation.

I have listed your real RD below to see what they are worth for:

Q1: Why would five people come forward on their own accord and falsely confess to the murder? - Valid question. Does this not raise suspicion that there is something foul at work here? A man who had openly poured vitriol on the Matam is murdered; a group of people confess, and the link is too easily traced to the Seers. It all seems too easy to be taken at face value. Surely.

Q2: Were the false-confessors properly interrogated to ascertain who instigated them to confess? - It is obvious that the Govt. has been lackadaisical in conducting the investigations after it was too happy to pronounce the Seer guilty (accused no. 1). Wonder why?

Q3: There was a writer who made accusations of sexual nature who later died of heart attack at a relatively young age. Was the complaint and writer's death investigated? Was she in any way connected to the murder of sankararaman? - What if the investigation should reveal that there was no such incident? Strange, it seems, that all such allegations never materialize legally. But what they certainly do is to taint the accused in the eyes of the public. This could very well be orchestrated to condemn the Seer when a case is already on. The immediate reaction of simpletons would be - "Look at the Seer, a murder, conspiracy and now sexual complaint. Surely out of these, one must be true for there cannot be smoke without fire.

Q4: What about the money taken out of the ICICI bank, was it properly accounted for? - FYI, it seems that there was no money taken out of ICICI bank and apart from such verbal allegation from the police, it has not been proved. See this :

Concerning payment for the crime, on 3 January 2005 the Supreme Court asked the Prosecution to produce evidence of withdrawls of money from the Matham’s ICICI bank account. (The lower courts had apparently satisfied themselves simply with the word of the Police about all money transactions.) It transpired that the Matham had no account at the ICICI bank at all! The prosecution then claimed that the money had come from the sale of a piece of land belonging to the Matham. The Police claimed that Sri Jayendra Saraswati had kept the money in his room and later given it to the assassins. Investigation showed that the Matham had indeed sold a piece of land but that the money had been placed in the Indian Bank account of the Matham and was still there in full. On January 10th the Supreme Court concluded that the Prosecution had failed to produce evidence of any financial transaction between the Shankaracharya and the alleged assailants.

Q5: The widow of the victim has claimed her retraction was because of threats. Who did she receive such threats from? This must be of great significance. Why was this not properly investigated? - Yes, this is true. I watched the victim's son, on a talk show, say that they were threatened. Nothing more. This line has to be investigated, but ipso facto there is nothing to shift the blame on the Seers.

Q6: It also seems she is now ready to change her testimony once again during the appeal process if proper protection is provided, what is this all about? Why should anyone believe somebody who keeps changing her testimony repeatedly? - Yes, the son said the same. Why did not the State Govt. which took speedy action against the Seer fail to protect the witnesses. Strange indeed. The fear migh probably be genuine, but it has to be investigated. Also it could be a ploy to extract some financial gain.

Besides, the Govt. appears to have frivolously thrown accusations on the Seer without adequate proof. See below:

Determined to get the two Shankaracharyas out of the way and seize control of the Matham, the Tamil Nadu authorities tried a different strategy. Under the so-called Goondas Act, a person who has already been charged with three crimes can be detained for a year without eligibility for bail. Overstretching this law for their own purposes, the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister and Police have dug up two older cases of assault and battery and are trying to foist them upon Sri Jayendra Saraswati. During the bail hearings the judge’s reaction was as follows:
In the first case (Radhakrishnan accuses Jayendra Saraswati and alleged co-assailants of assault with intention to kill two years ago), this is what Justice M. Thanikachalam of the High Court in Madras had to say to the Prosecuting Attorney: “Why wasn’t the investigation conducted for the past two years? What are the intentions of the Government?...What have you been doing the last two years?...Does your case diary show the investigation was not pursued because of want of materials?” The Prosecutor admitted “some slacking off” and said that thanks to the recent murder case (in which the Shankaracharyas are the accused!), the police had at last found the weapon (a knife) used against Mr. Radhakrishnan two years earlier. The judge snapped back: “You found the weapon after two years – the Court should believe this? Where is your forensic report?”
In the second case (complaint registered on 13th November 2004 by a certain Mr. Madhavan, accusing Sri Jayendra Saraswati and alleged co-assailants of having conspired the assault on his person which allegedly took place on 8th August 2004), the same judge wrote: “Considering the facts of the case, as well as the inordinate delay (of more than three months) in preferring the complaint, and considering the towering fact that at the earliest opportunity, the complainant reported that he sustained injuries only in a road accident, I am of the undoubted view that this case must be a foisted one.” (Madras High Court Judgment of 28/01/05 available in Kanchi Digest 1 at kanchi-sathya.org - information on the kanchi seer, latest news on the the seer trial, facts about the kanchi mutt :: media ::.)

Does it not strike you that all this contrived effort to bend backwards is part of a much greater design to harvest in a barren land?


Pls refer http://www.freewebs.com/victorymean...17988869-the-crucial-facts-of-the-kanchi-case

 

[Vaagmi]

post #179:

1) The optics is in the eye of the beholder. I for one think one is innocent unless proven guilty beyond a shadow of doubt. So I do not see any connection. Finding the true murderer may not have happened which is sad but this has nothing to do with the Seer. If some people have convicted him already based on so called evidence that the state did not prove in 9 years then the optics will be intriguing and different. But then who cares? There will always be people who are not fair minded in the world in my view.

It is not that the police caught hold of some one who was standing before the deity praying in the Varadharaja Perumal temple on the fateful day and charged him with murder. Nor is it that there was some one in far away California who conspired to kill Sankararaman. On reasonable grounds of doubt the police arrested the person in question. He did not prove in the court of law that he was no where near Kanchi and was far away in Timbuctoo herding the cattles. Neither did he provide any alibi that he was far away from India. Yet the case has been thrown out on technicalities. The witnesses became hostile, records were shown to have been manipulated etc., and the judge found his task an impossible one. So he rightly threw it out.

This may leave the person accused free from the clutches of the law. But he has to still explain the doubtful circumstances which led the police to him. Let us hope such an explanation comes forth particularly because the person charged is a revered public figure.

In any case the Matam is not for you and so opinion of people like you and I who are not active supporters of the Matam or its head is irrelevant in any case.

That makes the whole thread irrelevant.

If a Sannyasi has renounced per tradition then the use of private Jet does not have special value that may be in the mind of a Samsari . The head of the Mutt may have power but that sense of power could have no power on him. That is the most likely possibility and unless there are other issues use of private jet or car or whatever is not a big deal.

It does become a matter of special value because a sanyasi renounces everything to accept a simple life free of luxury and opulance. A visit to a temple need be such an urgent pressing engagement to use a private jet upto Tuticorin airport, and then the car journey from there. What is the urgency? To pray for the welfare of the humanity? A public figure has to always account for his actions. Whether the sense of power has power on an individual or not will depend on whether he has the power or not in the first place. Why acquire that power in the first place(while you can live without it) and then say that the power has no power on me? And want me believe it?

2. The Matam is not breaking any known law. It is a private institution supported by private donors and so it is not anyone's business as to what they do. In the end I sincerely believe that the world appears cynical if we are so - this is not an attack but something to reflect on in matters like this

Till yesterday there was a suspicion that laws were broken and that is why all this happened. If the true culprits had been found, if the witnesses were not asked to turn hostile under duress (as claimed by one of them), if the entire process of investigation has remained an enigma with many missing pages we could gone home with the satisfaction that our acharya was unnecessarily harassed. But unfortunately that will be possible only if exploanations come forth and a real investigation takes place.

post#180:

A judicial verdict releasing all the 23 people accused has been arrived at by the learned Judge after the due process of legal procedures. Hon. Judge has given reasons for releasing all the accused in his detailed verdict.This is a serious criminal case. It is for the prosecution to prove their charges beyond doubt, which is not done in this case. Speculative gossip on the verdict without proper evidence is not correct.

Due process of law was done only in the court. The due process of enquiry, the due process of law relating to prosecution etc were given a go by. The judge has reasons no doubt but that is no reason for satisfaction to an impartial observer. Prosecution, if failed miserably as it appears to be the case, there is every reason to order a reinquiry by another agency.

Yes, some one/people have murdered a man in day light in the Temple premises. The culprits should be caught and punished. The Police and investigative agencies should find who they are. Judiciary does not function and give a verdict on public opinion or media judgements. They have to get proper evidence to punish the culprits and prove it in the court of law.

So a CBI enquiry is called for.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

i have not seen any evidence for such a view. If you have, kindly furnish.
Afaik smartha sampradaya is what people adhering to one of the
many "smrithi" texts followed in their life style. In that way srivaishnavas
also follow either of their two smrithis - paancharaatra and vaikhaanasa.

Most of the hindu customs and conventions are practised by heresay - periava sonna.


I have not come across any scriptural edict saying that smarthas should not
worship krishna or vishnu; nor that smarthas must worship only shiva.
Kindly furnish references to support your observations.

I never said that smarthas should not worship godmen like krishna or rama. What

i said was that the presiding deity is lord shiva.

The namboodiri migration is hidden in the dim past of hindu religion which has
very poor historical data. I do not know whether they now follow the same
sub-caste system as their original folks may now be doing. After all,
the sub-caste phenomenon has not been monolithic and it has undergone
changes too, in the course of history.

Since namboodri has very poor historical data, the same is applied to various

sub sects. However, tamil iyers with various sub sects have matrimonial alliance

with palghat iyers who has similar sub sects, but not with namboodri brahmins.

Namboodiri is a title bestowed upon the immigrant priestly class of people
by the ruling clans of ancient kerala who had under them,only small principalities,
less than the area of some present-day districts. We have similar sounding
caste names like embranthiri, bhattathiri, nambiathiri, saamoothiri, erlathiri, etc.
These are names as valid as iyer or iyengar.

There is a wide cultural difference between tamil nadu and kerala, including among

brahmins.


Shri chandru, i find you are under some very wrong notions about many
topics relating to hinduism, brahmins, saivism and vaiishnavism, etc. Adi sankara
who lived, according to the kanchi mutt geneology, durng the 6th. Century b.c.,
established mutts during his short life span of 32 years so that his advaitha
vedanta could be spread all over the sub-continent.

Wikipedia has two difference dates of adi sankara's date of birth.

One 788–820 ce per sringeri math.

another 509 - 477 bce as per govardhan and dwarka mathas.

Many historians however believe he belonged to 788 - 820 ce.

Advaitha vedanta forms part of what is known as uttara meemaamsa, which is
accepted by the smartha brahmins as valid. Hence, naturally smartha brahmins
became followers of sankara mutt.

Per wikipedia:

There is however some contradiction. Sankara considered himself to be incarnation of lord shiva. But advaitha philosophy is not a saiva sect.

Though advaita is non sectarian, contemporary sankaracharayas have more influence

on saiva communities and smarthas, possibly due to wearing 'vibuthi'.

If you belong to some stridently saivite group from among smartha brahmins,
that is perfectly ok, but kindly do not try to enforce your world view on others.
The world is too large and varied and i feel you may not find unadulterated saivite
smarthas easily.

The above clearly indicates sankaracharayas are totally dependent on smarthas

for survival.

Anyway, it will help the members here a lot if you can let us know your sub-caste,
gothram, the soothra which you follow, your poorveekam and whether worship of
vishnu & his avatars are a strict no-no for you and your people.

I belonged to a sub sect which is very popular in thanjavur district and the

gothra involves following the sampradaya twice.


I don't think the highlighted observation is true. I can say about shringeri mutt.
There the pontiff will not see or give teertham to any widow who has not done
"mundan" of her head and is not covered with a single piece of cloth. That is all.
This is due to their strict adherence to the very smrithis which gives rise to even
the adjective smartha. Apart from the pontiff who is supposed to follow strictly
such rules, i have not heard that widows - irrespective of their dress or hair -
are debarred from entry into the sarada temple or the public spaces of the mutt.

Smrithis and sampradaya should be for all, without any discrimination or exemption.

Kanchi senior acharya also very scrupulously followed this rule of "mottai paatti" rule.

Sringeri mutt must have its own thinking and should not follow kanchi mutt.


There is no compulsion on smartha sampradaya tabras to adhere strictly to
saivite principles, as of today. Saivism is followed mostly in the 17 aadheenams
in tn.

It is not correct. Saivism is being followed throughout the world without much

difference. Linga worship is there everywhere; not like vaishava tradition; perumal

worship in tamil nadu, rama and krishna worship in west and north. Saivism has more

consistency. Aadheenams are one of the so many saivite institutions; it preaches in

tamil.


The sankara mutts were established by adisankara for disseminating his advaitha
vedanta and not to propagate smartha principles. I agree that the sankara mutts
have miserably failed to stick to the advaitha philosophy strictly. Even so, they have
been able to attract very large following and in that way, the sankara mutts have become
important in so far as hindus are concerned.

Advtiha is a philosophy and not religion. Saivism is a religion. Majority of the

smartha principles has root in saivism.


If the sankara mutts had indeed functioned as centres for disseminating advaitha philosophy,
they would not have idol worship of any kind including siva worship. But as centres of religious
learning, they could and probably should encourage people to study the various hindu scriptures
including vaishnavite, saivite and veera saivite, imo.

though adi sankara amalgamated five different worships into one,

advaitha philosophy does not discuss about various forms of hinduism.

To conclude:

Adi sankara acted like saibabas.

In one of his debates, after defeating mandana mishra, to answer his wife's

question on sex between men and women, adi sankara used the art of leaving

from one body and entering another body and finally completed the debate.

Is it possible for a human being to leave from one body and enter into

another body. Interestingly, adi sankara died at the age of 32.

Ndtv sometime back telecast a clipping showing srigeri sanyasi walking in

the temple with wooden shoes.


S chandrasekaran

 

[sarang]

CBI! God forbid. Soniaji will decide the outcome, based on the coalition partner's bargaining power.

So a CBI enquiry is called for.

 

[lviswanathan42]

Tamilnadu may not appeal to higher court

 

[zebra16]

So a CBI enquiry is called for.

A few days before at message # 129 this is what you had said :

I too would welcome a fresh investigation into the murder by a totally impartial agency. We can handover the investigation to the Nagaland police which comprises of Christian officers. If found sufficient reason for another case to be filed, the case should be filed in the Nagaland Court so that there will be no partiality. Or better still we can file this case in England after asking the Scotland yard to conduct the investigation. LOL.

Have you scaled down your demand or expectation?

 

[tks]

post #179:



1. It is not that the police caught hold of some one who was standing before the deity praying in the Varadharaja Perumal temple on the fateful day and charged him with murder. Nor is it that there was some one in far away California who conspired to kill Sankararaman. On reasonable grounds of doubt the police arrested the person in question. He did not prove in the court of law that he was no where near Kanchi and was far away in Timbuctoo herding the cattles. Neither did he provide any alibi that he was far away from India. Yet the case has been thrown out on technicalities. The witnesses became hostile, records were shown to have been manipulated etc., and the judge found his task an impossible one. So he rightly threw it out.

This may leave the person accused free from the clutches of the law. But he has to still explain the doubtful circumstances which led the police to him. Let us hope such an explanation comes forth particularly because the person charged is a revered public figure.



2. That makes the whole thread irrelevant.



2 b). It does become a matter of special value because a sanyasi renounces everything to accept a simple life free of luxury and opulance. A visit to a temple need be such an urgent pressing engagement to use a private jet upto Tuticorin airport, and then the car journey from there. What is the urgency? To pray for the welfare of the humanity? A public figure has to always account for his actions. Whether the sense of power has power on an individual or not will depend on whether he has the power or not in the first place. Why acquire that power in the first place(while you can live without it) and then say that the power has no power on me? And want me believe it?



3. Till yesterday there was a suspicion that laws were broken and that is why all this happened. If the true culprits had been found, if the witnesses were not asked to turn hostile under duress (as claimed by one of them), if the entire process of investigation has remained an enigma with many missing pages we could gone home with the satisfaction that our acharya was unnecessarily harassed. But unfortunately that will be possible only if exploanations come forth and a real investigation takes place.

post#180:

[/COLOR]

Due process of law was done only in the court. The due process of enquiry, the due process of law relating to prosecution etc were given a go by. The judge has reasons no doubt but that is no reason for satisfaction to an impartial observer. Prosecution, if failed miserably as it appears to be the case, there is every reason to order a reinquiry by another agency.



So a CBI enquiry is called for.

1. The seers or the Matam do not owe any explanation to anyone beyond what they presented to the court of law. For those who revere him nothing has changed. For those that dont this verdict has not changed anything. There will always be those that would want to nail a public figure. Such is life. Best is to ignore those people in my view

2. Yes

2b) The public here at large is corrupt and/or promote one of the most corrupt systems of life in the world. They do not deserve any explanation. If the Pope was arrested on Christmas eve without due process there will be Christians of all denomination that will demand proper accountability of the law enforcement team. In this instance mainly non Hindu leaders registered proper protests days after the incident.

How a person is living up to the ideals of a Sannyasi role is not something that can be judged by people from outside based on what they appear to do. The private jet may hold a big value for a Samsari and may mean nothing to a Sannyasi except as another means of transportation. What may appear strange to a Samsari may not mean anything to a true Sannyasi. So all I say is that there will be always people doing the judging and reinforcing their opinion of the seer. The best thing for the Matam to do is to ignore all such opinions and comments. I personally do not know the details, nor do I know all the activities of the Matam etc. I do not go about judging and if others want to judge the public figure let them


Finally let the state order a new investigation preferably by a non-corrupt organization if such an organization could be found in India

 

[kannanpadmanabhan]

A Sessions Court on Friday issued summons to five persons in a case relating to assault on Mandaveli S.Radhakrishnan. Kanchi Sankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswati is also facing the charges the case.

Mr. Radhakrishnan, his wife and an attendant were attacked by a gang in his house on September 20, 2002.

In 2005, the Foreshore Estate Police filed a charge sheet against eleven persons, including Jayendra Saraswati, for offences under sections 120-B (criminal conspiracy), 450(house-trespass in order to commit offence), 326(voluntarily causing grievous hurt by dangerous weapons or means) and 307(attempt to murder) read with 37(co- operation by doing one of several acts constituting an offence) of Indian Penal Code.

Court issues fresh summons to five persons in assault case

This is the reason why acquittal by Puduchery court may not be a total clean chit. There seems to have been a concerted attempt to attack persons who were creating lot of noise and controvery about the Mutt affairs.

Shankarraman was murdered in 2004
Auditor Radhakrishnan was assaulted even in 2002
Madhavan ( Name right?) was assaulted during the same years

We hear persons arguing that Some powerful persons wanted to frame the seers and they were the ones who sent the killers to Varadaraja temple to kill Shankararaman.
Even if this were to be true, why then did Auditor Radhakrishnan get murderously assaulted even in 2002. In 2002 there was no conflict of the seers with the powerful persons and in fact the seers were riding high in power and popilarity in 2002
It is beyond doubt that Radhakrishnan was assaulted and that he also had serious differences with the seers.
It was also true that characters like Appu were visiting the Mutt during these years

This requires lot of explaining certainly.
WHether or not the seers planned the assault or the murder, it seems highly probable that someone close to the Mutt and who was upset with the "enemies" wanted to attack or murder them
WHo in the mutt or close to the mutt planned these attacks needs to be brought to light.
It doest look like somebody close to the mutt did have a role in these attacks
Explaining away 2002 attack as an outside job just does not seem probable

 

[kunjuppu]

Both mk and jj will not do anything that is seen as patently anti-hindu as it will harm their prospects a lot.

i think in tamil nadu the mutt is viewed as a brahmin organization, by and large. so i do not believe there will be any political fallout for either parties within the state.

the issue may pressures from outside the state. the mutt has strong connections, i suspect and there is always the need to give and take when dealing with many issues including 2G, CBI, sand mafia and what not

tamil hinduism is extremely saivite with murugan as the tamil God. nobody even at the height of the DK shenanigans, touched a murugan temple or edifice. it was only after rama they went.

so, the tamil hindus would probably shrug away any action. even now there is very little goodwill from what i see, and mostly there is a feeling that due to the connections, the mutt got away scot free. that is general opinion of tamil NB blogs. and a fair number of north indian blogs (B & NB).