Spiritual Frauds

[RVR]

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Observations of Madras Highcourt

Honorable Madras High Court has just refused to transfer the Nityananda case to CBI at this point of time since Karnataka police is investigating the case.

http://expressbuzz.com/cities/chennai/godman-case-hc-rejects-plea-for-cbi-probe/164955.html

The honorable Judge has clearly stated that there is a need for a thorough inquiry by CBI but at this point of time refused to transfer the case to CBI from Karnataka police. If the investigating agency in Karnataka fails to do its duty, then the court may order transfer of case to CBI.

Following observations of the Honorable Judge is very clear about the views of the court.

" The judge observed that it was unfortunate that in spite of teachings by great leaders, the followers of fraudulent godman continued to be in their sway. Awareness programmes must be conducted by the government agencies so that the frauds and the blacksheep could be identified. The religious feelings of the devotees, including that of the petitioner, was wounded and huge amounts had allegedly been collected in Tamil Nadu and other places through misrepresentation and fraud. Under such circumstances, a detailed inquiry by a central agency was required, the judge observed.However, since the investigation was pending before a special agency at Karnataka and when nothing had been alleged against the agency there, “I do not find any merit to transfer the investigation of the case to the CBI,’’ the judge said and dismissed the petition"

All the best

 

[C RAVI]

ganja smoking sadhus dime a dozen in haridwar rishikesh benares etc in thiruvannamalai swami surat kumar used to be smoking charminar ciggies,and the smoke smell will never be like regualr tobacco,a different pleasant smell,is this the one you are asking? ravi saar

Aamaam saar aamaam...ganja smoking sadhus/Aghoraas in haridwar rishikesh are considered to be the most potential ganja trading agents..

These sadhus/aghoraas are left free to smoke ganja and eat human flesh by administrative and law enforcement agencies, as they are considered to be a totally different category people who live on their own belief and systems.

The local administrative authorities, law enforcement agencies, aghoraas and ganja traders are all hand-in-glow to help each other for their own benefits. These ganja smoking and flesh eating aghoraas, though don’t require money, may get something else to fulfill themselves.

 

[nachi naga]

ghoram and aghoram ,vesham and veshamam.numbo naadu oru vichithra naadu.dharmam numbho munnore gallukku migavum niraiaagha pagathu arivu valarthiaay koduthathunaalo enbho,ippozhudu naam idai ellam paarthu kondu irukkinrome.tobacco is injurious to health,is printed on products.if the goverment is really compassionate,they will not allow tobacco to grow in india,instead its left to individual self to ascertain,whats good or whats bad for him/her.

kudi kudyayai kedukkum.manufacturers are left alone,sellers are left alone,but the consumer,when he consumes as he/she pleases,promptly for jay walking or crossing the threshold limit,is thrown in the cell.ha haa ,thats the ways rulers retard the populace thinking.that is why India will never progress exponentially,but progress like koorma avaataram.

 

[nachi naga]

YouTube - Ashramite Experiences

 

[Nara]

Some introspection please

Fraud is deliberate deception for personal gain, a truly terrible and despicable act -- nobody will hesitate to condemn it, without any reservation or hedging.

But, what about a system that promotes superstition and hero-worship, and also prepares the masses to be easily duped by unscrupulous pretenders? Even within the last couple of days I have seen several posts here praising this very system that is at least an unwitting accessory to this fraud.

• One poster adoringly cited the case of a couple of old Brahmin ladies, caught in mass-hysteria of the moment, asking for forgiveness from the lord for the wild shaking the idol was being subjected to. These two deluded ladies (they were supposed to be Brahmin ladies, but that, I would argue, is immaterial, even NB ladies are equally susceptible to such delusions) are supposed to be the examples of exalted souls for the rest of us to emulate!!
• Another poster even has several threads exclusively for materials gathered from elsewhere that extols hallucinations and mindless hero-worship. One example of this is the projection of acharya on a refrigerator by an individual who is convinced the acharya lived long enough for him to complete recitation of some manthra for some personal gain or satisfaction.
• The next is about a question on Varnashrama. Having seen the unvarnished misery this system has produced one would expect a clear and unambiguous repudiation of it from a much revered acharya such as the one cited. It was disappointing that this acharya was concerned about his words getting media play and tamely suggested that the only solution is for each man to realize his true nature.

People in positions of power and influence must show the way, lead the ordinary people in a direction where they are not so easily defrauded by charlatans. Yet, they do the opposite. They promote superstition, tell endless number of tall stories about “spiritual masters” designed to dull any rational impulse, acquiesce to hero-worship, pass up the chance to repudiate vile practices, etc. etc., and then wonder why people fall for spiritual frauds.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

Dear nara,
I hold your views in utter contempt,not you as a person.so here it goes,

Fraud is deliberate deception for personal gain, a truly terrible and despicable act -- nobody will hesitate to condemn it, without any reservation or hedging.

true,provided fraud is proved in a court of law that a fraud has been committed.media conducting trial,is as good a fraud on gullible too,or no?

But, what about a system that promotes superstition and hero-worship, and also prepares the masses to be easily duped by unscrupulous pretenders? Even within the last couple of days I have seen several posts here praising this very system that is at least an unwitting accessory to this fraud.

i agree with you,since you sound anguished about the state of affairs, american presidents have been conducting themselves in the past,such hero-worship perpetuating a fraud,especially in Iraq.your's is a religio-politico fraud,that your country has masterfully have become adept,by sheer brute force and deception.

One poster adoringly cited the case of a couple of old Brahmin ladies, caught in mass-hysteria of the moment, asking for forgiveness from the lord for the wild shaking the idol was being subjected to. These two deluded ladies (they were supposed to be Brahmin ladies, but that, I would argue, is immaterial, even NB ladies are equally susceptible to such delusions) are supposed to be the examples of exalted souls for the rest of us to emulate!!

Delusion for unnatural is agnostic/atheist perception .agnostic/atheist will even question his/her mom, who his/her father is.

Another poster even has several threads exclusively for materials gathered from elsewhere that extols hallucinations and mindless hero-worship. One example of this is the projection of acharya on a refrigerator by an individual who is convinced the acharya lived long enough for him to complete recitation of some manthra for some personal gain or satisfaction.

having understood a view upheld by you,its not surprising for you to utter such garbage here,unless untill its a vaishnava sampradaya,for which your views have a soft corner,i wonder who is deluded here,gasp!

The next is about a question on Varnashrama. Having seen the unvarnished misery this system has produced one would expect a clear and unambiguous repudiation of it from a much revered acharya such as the one cited. It was disappointing that this acharya was concerned about his words getting media play and tamely suggested that the only solution is for each man to realize his true nature.

true nature,science terms it as self-esteem.old wine in a new bottle.

People in positions of power and influence must show the way, lead the ordinary people in a direction where they are not so easily defrauded by charlatans. Yet, they do the opposite. They promote superstition, tell endless number of tall stories about “spiritual masters” designed to dull any rational impulse, acquiesce to hero-worship, pass up the chance to repudiate vile practices, etc. etc., and then wonder why people fall for spiritual frauds.
Cheers!

we are seeing a role model in your views,as to how you have influenced your president from 2000-2008.By sheer grace of god,a decent president is in power,hopefully will undo the terrible atrocities committed by his precedesesor,especially in financial reforms,war,womens pay etc.if we are susceptible to frauds,are you suggesting americans do not fall prey to christian religious frauds,professorial frauds in colleges,i suppose american's are absolutely rationalistic in their country and do not have vile practices,that we need to hear a sermon from,of all the people in earth today,snicker snicker.

try sermonising or pontificating your views to common man in america,you will start looking for your mama!and start to learn life all over again.

 

[RVR]

Nityanandan arrested

Swami Nityananda arrested in Himachal - Yahoo! India News

All the best

 

[sapthajihva]

Hello Shri Nara,

...... but that, I would argue, is immaterial, even NB ladies are equally susceptible to such delusions) are supposed to be the examples of exalted souls for the rest of us to emulate!!

Taking a leaf out of your own postings, your observation about it being a delusion notwithstanding - where would we then talk about the exalted brahmins, if not in a brahmin forum?

Another poster even has several threads exclusively for materials gathered from elsewhere that extols hallucinations and mindless hero-worship. ............

Hero worship of exalted individuals and who are sathvic in nature will promote the good nature of those who listen to/read it. It is better than hero-worship of any cine star or politician.

It was disappointing that this acharya was concerned about his words getting media play and tamely suggested that the only solution is for each man to realize his true nature.
...............

That, IMO, is the correct answer. It is left to each individual to realize the way out for him. Shastras and Gurus are guides, if one desires so.

Regards,

 

[Nara]

.....- where would we then talk about the exalted brahmins, if not in a brahmin forum?

Dear Saptha, I have no problem extolling exalted brahmins, by all means. But, I think in most of these cases the exalted brahmins were more like great people first and I like to stop with that. If others want to color them with caste and perhaps shine in reflected glory, it is their prerogative.

In the other thread I commented only upon a clearly untrue claim, namely, before the British the caste system was not an oppressive one. This claim is patently and utterly false and can be seen as such even from the religious texts accepted and revered by Brahmins.

My comments in this thread are made in the context of the so called spiritual frauds. Here, I am expressing my opinion that the broader Hindu tradition of adoringly elevating every superstition and projecting abject hero-worship as the mark of ultimate spiritual refinement, unwittingly prepares the masses to fall for these spiritual frauds.

I have seen this type of hero-worship, first hand. I have seen Acharya himself telling people very sternly not to do it. Yet, in their zeal to be more humble and free of ego than anyone else, they overdo this, as if it is a competition for who will unquestioningly believe even the tallest of tall stories.

Hero worship of cine stars is bad, bad for the individual, bad for the society, we are in agreement there. Similarly, elevating deluded ladies and self-absorbed people seeing acharya in refrigerators as heroes worthy of our adoration is not constructive. I have no problem respecting great acharyas and great scholars, I do that myself even if I don't agree with them 100%.

Each man has to realize his true self is a tautology, it is not an answer to the question that was supposed to have been asked. IMO, great people have great responsibility to guide the society. I think in this instance an otherwise great person fell short, and for that, my feeling is one of disappointment, that is all.

Saptha, I hope I have stated my stance clearly, Cheers!

 

[sapthajihva]

Yes, Shri Nara, you have very clearly made your point...

As is my wont, I have some comments to your reply...

...This claim is patently and utterly false and can be seen as such even from the religious texts accepted and revered by Brahmins.

I beg to differ; but let me not repeat myself here.

Also, you are contradicting your own stance here; by seeing them as brahmins (or casteists) who oppressed, instead of seeing them as simply oppressive minded-individuals! Is it not?

...my opinion that the broader Hindu tradition of adoringly elevating every superstition and projecting abject hero-worship as the mark of ultimate spiritual refinement, unwittingly prepares the masses to fall for these spiritual frauds.

You may be somewhat mistaken here. Hindu tradition never elevates mindless superstition and makes the masses prey to it. On the contrary, the shastras clearly indicate/direct people to act with clarity and with knowledge. It is the fault of the masses, that they, ignoring the dictates of the shastras, blindly believe in anyone who might offer them a materialistic solution.

...IMO, great people have great responsibility to guide the society...

Yes, a society which accords a great man the attention his words deserve...

Regards,

 

[Nara]

....Also, you are contradicting your own stance here; by seeing them as brahmins (or casteists) who oppressed, instead of seeing them as simply oppressive minded-individuals! Is it not?

Dear Saptha, I think I understand what you are saying. I agree there are good brahmins going about their business, doing their nithya karma as ordained etc. But where we differ is the fact, and I say fact advisedly, these otherwise good and kind hearted brahmins, and I know many of them and respect them, act quite offensively in the name of caste. The principles of caste system make them act that way, not because they are somehow flawed. The flaw is in the system.

You are seeing the caste system from the duties ordained, and that is commendable. But, it does not stop with that, it enjoins people to act in an oppressive way. I hate to name names, but I know of a great and respected scholar from Thiruvinnagaram (i.e. Oppliyappan Kovil) who has written volumes of scholarly books, who refused to enter Oppliyappan Kovil after Dalits were permitted to enter the temple way back some 60 or so years ago. I have the highest of respect and regard for this gentlemen, who is no more now, who lived a life of absolute fidelity to shashthras, and that made him act in this way.

cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

ayyangars by nature are deluded lot,as they seem to think exclusive species,even in a brahmin community.among the ayyangars the vadagalai and thengalai,issue even goes to how the elephant should be wearing a namam! and the new juicy bit i heard now is,that even in komanam wearing style and kudumis are an issue among the exclusive ayyangar brahmin community.dalits are human and i protest to even call people as dalits.they shud be called just as lord krishna has said,shudra - period.

 

[sapthajihva]

Morning (by my time...!) Shri Nara,

I think I understand what you are saying. I agree there are good brahmins....

Apologies for being ambiguous, if it was. The point I was actually trying to convey is that:

-> When we talk about exalted individuals, you stress that you see them as just good humans; no more.

-> When there is talk about ill-treatment, you take the name of caste or the system as being the cause.

It should be that in both the cases above, it is caste (or the system) which makes them good/bad, or it is the human nature which is good/bad. You cannot say, that they are good human beings and bad casteists.

Do you agree to this?

Regards,

 

[nachi naga]

Morning (by my time...!) Shri Nara,

Apologies for being ambiguous, if it was. The point I was actually trying to convey is that:

-> When we talk about exalted individuals, you stress that you see them as just good humans; no more.

-> When there is talk about ill-treatment, you take the name of caste or the system as being the cause.

It should be that in both the cases above, it is caste (or the system) which makes them good/bad, or it is the human nature which is good/bad. You cannot say, that they are good human beings and bad casteists.

Do you agree to this?

Regards,

finally sapthajihva,you have written what i wanted to convey to nara,rather eloquently.of course knowing him as much as i do from the writings he posted in the forum,i doubt it will get registered in his brain!!!!:second:

 

[nachi naga]

Nityanandan arrested

Swami Nityananda arrested in Himachal - Yahoo! India News

All the best

i am reminded of his holinesses jayendra saraswathi & vijendrar sarswathi,being arrested and put in jail,and the case is till going on pondichery.what a tragedy hindu guru's are subjected to torture and the lord rama's birth place is still mired in controversy owing wakf board's interference.similiarly the sikh's were turmoiled,with golden temple,being subjected to military intervention,but NOT a single Christian Missionary is pulled up for sexual abuse to minor's with pedophile activities,or the ........never mind,all spiritual people are etting maligned n a nutshell,by asura kunjus..

 

[RVR]

i am reminded of his holinesses jayendra saraswathi & vijendrar sarswathi,being arrested and put in jail,and the case is till going on pondichery.what a tragedy hindu guru's are subjected to torture and the lord rama's birth place is still mired in controversy owing wakf board's interference.similiarly the sikh's were turmoiled,with golden temple,being subjected to military intervention,but NOT a single Christian Missionary is pulled up for sexual abuse to minor's with pedophile activities,or the ........never mind,all spiritual people are etting maligned n a nutshell,by asura kunjus..

Please don't compare Kanchi Acharyas with self appointed God men like Nityananda, Puttabarthi Saibaba etc.

Kanchi Mutt is a traditional mutt with a long history. Nobody can become even obtain `sanyas' from Kanchi mutt just like that. One of my own relative present `Mettur swamigal' has to wait for almost twenty years to obtain `Sanyas' from Paramacharyal. Restrictions inside the mutt are very strict that even the inmates of the mutt other than Acharyas have to keep certain discipline.

Even the Junior Acharya will always be with his Senior and will not do anything without the knowledge of his Senior.

In the case of Nityanandan and others it is totally different. Nobody knows who is their Guru. It is a great surprise that he gives `sanyas' to both boys and girls instantaneously. My own relative whom we rescued from the so called ashram got sanyas instantenously. Now the boy (25 years approx) is returning to normal life slowly. Unfortunately two years of his productive life is wasted and we are trying to place him in a job with great difficulty.

Kanchi Acharyas faced the law of the land courageously and are coming out with flying colours. One of my own good friend is appearing for Kanchi Acharyas in Puducherry court and I know the full details of the vendetta done by JJ to the Acharyas. But Nityananda was hiding in Himachal Pradesh preventing arrest and the Police were forced to find out his hidings and arrest him.

Please don't compare both the incidents.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Morning (by my time...!)

Dear Saptha, Good morning to you, by my time

It should be that in both the cases above, it is caste (or the system) which makes them good/bad, or it is the human nature which is good/bad. You cannot say, that they are good human beings and bad casteists.

IMO, this is a superficial equivalency. If the bad a man does has a particular rationale, it is not automatic that all his other actions also stem from the same rationale. For example, a Muslim man can be compassionate because he is kind hearted, but may act abominably because of Sharia -- two different basis.

An individual is impelled by a wide array of forces. Even for those for whom caste plays an immense motivating factor for their actions, it is not the only force. Connection between actions and underlying motivation can be made only if it is reasonable.

When a devout and scholarly person refuses to go to the temple he loved all his life because of Dalit temple entry, we can easily see the connection between this act and the underlying motivation of caste. The same cannot said when a couple of compassionate people, who happened to be born Brahmins helped BRA. When they helped this Dalit get an education they were actually going against the caste system.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

Please don't compare Kanchi Acharyas with self appointed God men like Nityananda, Puttabarthi Saibaba etc.

Kanchi Mutt is a traditional mutt with a long history. Nobody can become even obtain `sanyas' from Kanchi mutt just like that. One of my own relative present `Mettur swamigal' has to wait for almost twenty years to obtain `Sanyas' from Paramacharyal. Restrictions inside the mutt are very strict that even the inmates of the mutt other than Acharyas have to keep certain discipline.

Even the Junior Acharya will always be with his Senior and will not do anything without the knowledge of his Senior.

In the case of Nityanandan and others it is totally different. Nobody knows who is their Guru. It is a great surprise that he gives `sanyas' to both boys and girls instantaneously. My own relative whom we rescued from the so called ashram got sanyas instantenously. Now the boy (25 years approx) is returning to normal life slowly. Unfortunately two years of his productive life is wasted and we are trying to place him in a job with great difficulty.

Kanchi Acharyas faced the law of the land courageously and are coming out with flying colours. One of my own good friend is appearing for Kanchi Acharyas in Puducherry court and I know the full details of the vendetta done by JJ to the Acharyas. But Nityananda was hiding in Himachal Pradesh preventing arrest and the Police were forced to find out his hidings and arrest him.

Please don't compare both the incidents.

All the best

rvr

i know kanchi acharyal is innocent too.you are right i ought not to compare,as you rightly said,adi-shankara as kula guru,they do have a sampradayam,even the controversy about kanchi existance is now,cleared,thnx to mahaswamigals relentless impeccable stature.

self-proclaimed,is not a reason to dis-believe genuine spirituality.if one were to think,adi-shankara,went and accepted acharya gauda pada,untill he mastered,but generally we attribute adi-shankara the lineage for advaitham,even though advaitham existed long before adi-shankara.

sir,nithyananda swamiji may be innocent,we shud not summarily pronounce this,based on media coverage,especially when tricknology can be a cause.in fact usa flag was wavering on moon landing video,and how that is possible,when there is no gravity there?or wind?so tricknology can be done everyhere,isn't it?

its your opinion as against mine,regarding parthi sathya sai baba.in fact the miracles baba has done is mind boggling,but,for me his prema sathya ananda dharma shanthi ahimsa,is the essence of bhagvan sathya sai baba.he is my mother and father,so please do not insult my parents in the forum.i respect your views about dis-respecting baba,let's agree to dis-agree on this,and leave it there.

the police have arrested,true.it's unfortunate,that swami ji did not go to police station himself and surrender,as this would have made him respectable as far as public relations are concerned.but if his life is in danger,i think he did the right thing.one never knows about mob fury,i myself wont take chance with that.

 

[renuka]

Dear all...

i was reading Taittiriya Upanishad today and i came across a commentary from Yajnavalkya...I cant remember word for word and the exact Stanza as the book is in my clinic..but now I will just share what I read from my memory...

It goes like this...

The Guru advises his students not to jump to conclusion too quickly when someone is accused of anything...He advises to handle such situation as how a council of learneds would do..
He also says that calling another sinner/guilty etc without further enquiry and evidence will cause the individual to partake some of the sin commited by the accused...


Ok after reading what i wrote above...Who wants to share " sins" with Nithyananda ?

 

[C RAVI]

It is really upsetting to note that, many a times in this Forum, the sensitivity of one's feelings and belief are over looked....We go over board to ridicule our own systems..

Bhagwan Sri Sathya Sai Baba is considered as "nada maadum daivam" by a large group of people and by many members of this forum...

If we stick on to the controversial discussions about the man in limelight, than we can avoid dragging in the other personalities and offend each other...

 

[RVR]

It is really upsetting to note that, many a times in this Forum, the sensitivity of one's feelings and belief are over looked....We go over board to ridicule our own systems..

Bhagwan Sri Sathya Sai Baba is considered as "nada maadum daivam" by a large group of people and by many members of this forum...

If we stick on to the controversial discussions about the man in limelight, than we can avoid dragging in the other personalities and offend each other...

Ravi,

I am voicing the concern of people who have been cheated by these God man. I shall take you to persons who have been cheated by the same God man whom you want me to avoid when you visit Chennai next time. They are all frightened and are even afraid to open their mouths.

My mission is to save people from such God men even at the risk of my life. Please understand my position.

My intention is not to insult anybody but save innocent people from these fraudulent God men.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Ravi,

I am voicing the concern of people who have been cheated by these God man. I shall take you to persons who have been cheated by the same God man whom you want me to avoid when you visit Chennai next time. They are all frightened and are even afraid to open their mouths.

My mission is to save people from such God men even at the risk of my life. Please understand my position.

My intention is not to insult anybody but save innocent people from these fraudulent God men.

All the best

Dear RVR anna...

i can take you to so many people who have realized divinity in human form called Sathya Sai Baba...

I myself can give you enough evidence and my personal experience..
Even though I did not need evidence to know Veda Purusha Sathya Sai Baba...so RVR anna..who is right..and who is wrong..

Those people in Chennai or me....?

I am not asking to prove or disprove here..
The point is anyone can say anything they want...Its all hearsay end of the day...

So we should be our own judge...you dont really need to put your life at stake to help the victims of fraud..

You sound like you wrote the famous Gita shloka

Yada Yada Hidharmasya..
Glanir Bhavati Bharata...

 

[nachi naga]

Dear RVR anna...

i can take you to so many people who have realized divinity in human form called Sathya Sai Baba...

I myself can give you enough evidence and my personal experience..
Even though I did not need evidence to know Veda Purusha Sathya Sai Baba...so RVR anna..who is right..and who is wrong..

Those people in Chennai or me....?

I am not asking to prove or disprove here..
The point is anyone can say anything they want...Its all heresay end of the day...

So we should be our own judge...you dont really need to put your life at stake to help the victims of fraud..

You sound like you wrote the famous Gita shloka

Yada Yada Hidharmasya..
Glanir Bhavati Bharata...

rofl lol ha ha :nod:

 

[RVR]

Regarding Puttabarthi Saibaba, there is enough material in the public domain.

Let us obtain original recordings from BBC and put it to test by independent scientific lab.

Let us go for independent verification in a reputed lab.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

Regarding Puttabarthi Saibaba, there is enough material in the public domain.

Let us obtain original recordings from BBC and put it to test by independent scientific lab.

Let us go for independent verification in a reputed lab.

All the best

who is there in london folks,to help rvr with his mission?

past prime ministers past presidents ministers humble citizens in all major metros and now recently in vist to new delhi and shimla by bhagavan sathya sai baba 185 countries devotees just not hindus but christians jews islam sikhs jains buddhists zorastrians etc.....bring it on sir,those who messed with bhagavan had to go and visit baba recently all madha adhpiathis were congregated like satchida nanda ganapathi swamigal udupi mahaswamigalu kanchi kamkoti peedhadhipadhi sringeri acharyal sent all ritviks for the yagna,dunno rvr which loka you are living,but then even you behaving like this is bhagavans leela only,otherwise you will be chanting with us bolo sairam sathya sairam