Sri KRS,
I never said that you are alone responsible for any of the actions done during the deletion of my postings. If you think that I am pin pointing you, then it is your problem.
Oh, please do not make this worse. So, are you saying that Sri Praveen Ji and/or Sri Silverfox Ji along with me or individually have 'vested interests'? I would think that they would react the same way I have reacted. Worse than making some wild allegation is not to take ownership of it once said. I have responded, so it is not my problem anymore.
I have fought the administration of this forum as a whole and has nothing personal against anybody.
We have started recording minutes of swayamvaram organisers meetings and the decisions are being taken collectively.
Finally Sri Silverfox intervened and restored my right of expression. Even though he conveyed the message, I feel that it is the collective decision of the forum administrators and not his own personal decision.
If you notice, subsequently also I never re-activated the spiritual fraud thread for long time. Now I am forced to activate due to Nityananda affair in which one boy of my own family circle is also missing.
Your statements above sir are simply contradictory. If Sri Silverfox told you to go ahead, why all these machinations about keeping on blaming some censorship? If you assumed that it was a collective decision, why keep on fretting about your words about Sri Saibaba being edited out, especially when you knew that I quit being a moderator? Seems to me that you were playing offense as defense to set up yourself to say whatever you want on this topic.
Dr Sundaram seems to be a follower of Nityananda. When he wanted some answers to his queries, I restrained my self answering, stating that due to some problems I cannot answer in this forum. He also graciously accepted my reply and the matter is closed. My answer was not intended to provoke anybody. If you get provoked by my answer, then it is your problem and not mine.
To be perfectly honest, I do not get provoked by many subjects especially this one on a personal basis. I care less about Godmen and so what you say does not matter to me. My concern was always about the feelings of our membership at large, because this topic directly strikes against their faith in their chosen Gurus. In the absence of any definitive proofs, throwing around words like 'fraudulent' etc, about a person so many revere, is bound to hurt the deep divine feelings in these folks. Does not matter whether you and I think that this person is a fraud. No one can prove or disprove it over discussions in this forum. This is my opinion. This is why when a long standing member expressed his positive opinions about Kalki Bhagawan, I shut up, even though I questioned his practice of charging money for dharshan. My stance was about only to safeguard the interests of this Forum as a moderator.
Whatever Video link I gave was broad cast by BBC only. BBC is not a dubious news channel. If the followers of the God man were offended, they could have taken action against BBC.
Earlier episode involving Sieco watch company and the same God man was published by Illustrated Weekly of India, a Times of India group publication. Again Times of India is a most reputed news paper group in India.
These are anecdotal and perhaps well known to the followers, along with other allegations. My point is not about the Godman, but rather about the deep feelings of the followers, who have invested in following such a divinity as they see fit. I can not simply say that millions of such folks are stupid and foolish. Nor am I certain about the authenticity of such Godmen. But I know that I am not going to protect all who fall prey to any such frauds. If you think otherwise, you have every right to follow your conscience and fight. What all I asked you as a moderator was not to use this forum to do such fights because it is contrary to the interests of this Forum, same as when I told you to not to disparage the Kanchi Periaval.
When BBC started abusing Kanchi mutt, they took action against them and BBC apologized and withdrew the article. This is available in the following weblink of Kanchi mutt on 10.3.2006
kanchi-sathya.org - information on the kanchi seer, latest news on the the seer trial, facts about the kanchi mutt :: today's update :
I know this intimately, because I was one of the five people spread around the globe who formed a team to fight BBC. As a team, we hired a famous lawyer in London. BBC backed down. But we were lucky because of a few crucial mistakes made by BBC. It is not easy to do such battles. In fact, ours is one of a very few success stories on lawsuits against BBC. And the costs involved are enormous. It is not always easy to take on the media giants anywhere in the world.
:
Why not the God man or his followers take up with BBC to withdraw the video or article if they are sure that it is doctored. Instead of refuting me, they can take up the matter with BBC.
In the absence of any action against the media in the above cases, I presume that media is correct.
Again, your presumption may not be correct. There are many things involved in not filing a suit, including getting the assent of the Godman to pursue a law suit. A 'no permission' should not always be interpreted as a sign of guilt - it may be tied with other, perfectly understandable reasons. Believe me, I know, because we went through it in the Kanchi case.
I am follower of Kanchi mutt and I have criticized the present Acharya, which you have to appreciate. I always believe that no body is above board and all the public figure should be subject to criticism. I toned down my criticism after your request but still I earnestly feel administration of the Kanchi mutt has to improve and more transparency is brought to the system so that no body criticize it in the future.
I have been communicating the same message through private channels.
Nobody in India could be compared with Mahatma Gandhi. Mahatma Gandhi is the father of the Nation. One of the members whom this forum administration banned and again re-instated, criticized Mahatma Gandhi. Another member Narayanee also criticized Mahatma Gandhi but her postings were deleted. I have nothing against Mahakavi Bharathi but just to praise Mahakavi Bharathi if some body wants to criticize Mahatma Gandhi, then it is not correct. If they want to praise Bharathi, let them do so.
I have been living in USA most of my adult life and the first amendment (freedom os speech) is taken very seriously. American flag can be burned without any legal consequences as a protest, hate speech against any groups are allowed. But even here there are some restrictions to such free speech under certain circunstances. Vulgarity can be tailored to the standards of each local community, so free expression can be curtailed on that basis. If you threaten the life of the President, even without intent, you can be arrested.
Your Indian Government and society have different standards - Rushdie's work was benned to 'not to hurt the sentiments' of a particular community and M.F. Hussain is living abroad to escape the arrest based on his so called vulgar portrayals of Hindu Gods. Do you agree with these stances?
This is why I am confused. Do you mean to say that any speech should be allowed but for crticizing Gandhi Ji, because he was unique? Why can I not criticize him (for example his stance to pacify the Ali brothers that led to the Moplah uprising) and say for example I prefer Sri Bose's approach over his? The reason for you to put him in such a special position is that you revere him as a person largely responsible for our independence and so hold a special space for him in your heart, as many of us do, in the secular arena. Then, why can you not understand and empathize with the followers of various Gurus (which is a special aspect of our religion) who hold their Gurus with deeper spiritual affection?
By the way, Sow. Narayanee was banned by Sri Kunjuppu Ji, because she made some very vulgar statements supporting the assasination of Gandhi Ji. That, in my opinion was the right thing to do.
Probably you and I studied physics under the same teachers. I stopped my science education with basic degree and continued some other subject for higher education. But you did post graduation in physics from the same institution and surely you must be more knowledgeable then me in Science subjects.
Is it possible to create anything out of thin air? If so, should we accept it without verification ? When one gentlemen Ramar Pillai claimed that he has discovered auto fuel from specific plants, entire country was thrilled and celebrated. But science community of IIT Madras requested him to demonstrate the same in fraud proof conditions and he miserably failed. About a decade back there was high talk about Ramar Pillai but no body seems to remember him now. I am a believer in God and at the same time I am a believer in Science also.
Sir, I have pursued Physics as a student for a long time in my younger life, especially Theoretical Physics. Science, can not answer many fundamental questions. And I believe that it never will. Because we are part of the same closed system that we are observing, from the system's pov, one can never know what lies outside the system through the same means we try to understand the system we are part of. There have been 'magical' things that has happened to me in my life that I still can not explain by logic. So, I believe in magic. Our religion says that 90% of the reality is unmanifest. There are things that we do not and can not know through our senses alone. Of course there are frauds. But not all 'miracles' are frauds, in my opinion. I just can not personally think that we know everything that can be explained through our current state of reality explained by science. However, within the known realm of science and logic, I apply those principles primarily in my life where they are valid. I just do not think that they explain the spiritual and the primordal conditions of men to me.
If any body claims that he has super natural powers, I request him to demonstrate the same in a fraud proof condition before neutral scientific community. Dr Abraham Kovoor, a renowned rationalist, offered Rs. 1 lakh award in the seventies when each US $ was less than Rs.10 conversion rate. Today I am converting the same into present US $ rate and willing to offer Rs.5 lakhs for anybody proving his super natural powers before selected scientific audience under fraud proof condition.
My above offer is open during my life time and any body interested can take up the challenge and write to me. Let anybody interested, deposit the cost of testing in the institution which I specify and conduct the test. If he succeeds, I shall reimburse cost of testing also along with the award. If the person fails in his effort, then he has to openly admit that he was been indulging in fraudulent activities at the appropriate forums and also pay damages. The damages will go to charitable institutions which I specify.
Instead of wasting time in discussions and debates, let the followers of God man claiming super natural powers, bring their Guru before scientific community for verification. If they are not willing to do so, then let them not talk about him in this forum at least.
Good sentiment, but a wasted one. This will never be proven and will never happen, given the mysteries of the Universe that we do not know and never will.
All the best
