Tamil Brahmins marriage

[valli]

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In most of the weddings, one simple fact gets overlooked by almost everybody. That is, during every wedding, groom is the hero and the bride is the heroine. Since it is the ceremony of their union, a wedding should be conducted in the way the bride and groom like to have it. In most of the weddings, if the elders of the groom and the bride are richer and more influential than the 'Vadhyar', then the wedding takes place as the 'elders' desire; if the 'vadhyar' is more influential, then the 'vadhyar' set the rules and bully others to follow.

If the rituals are not forced, then we may say they are done in good humor...lucky few may even have that! If we are to enjoy watching the wedding photographs at a later date, then it should have taken place as we desire it to take place. I don't think we can 'enjoy' watching our going through meaningless rituals. (How many of us 'viewed' Arundhathi star in the bright morning daylight?).

Very well said! I was about to type something along those lines!

I remember couple of my girl friends saying that they do not like to look at their marriage photos and video since it brings back all the bad memories of how the parents and elders of the boy's side bullied the girl's parents and their relatives.

Also one of the girl told that she took out her anger on her husband about how he stood close mouthed and acted like a dummy during a certain incident where her parents were insulted, as soon as she entered the first night room!! It was only after the boy apologised profoundly and sincerely that the first night took place!

Regards

 

[kunjuppu]

Also one of the girl told that she took out her anger on her husband about how he stood close mouthed and acted like a dummy during a certain incident where her parents were insulted, as soon as she entered the first night room!! It was only after the boy apologised profoundly and sincerely that the first night took place!

Regards

dear valli,

i really wonder in the previous generation and beyond, when the grooms' side ruled supreme, how long before the bride asserted herself.

i have found that the girls of those days, got back at their husbands and eventually the in-laws. after all, as per your example, the bride controlled the events from the first night onwards, and it was a rare tambram ammanji who could stand up to an assertive woman.

in those days, it was indeed a lucky fil or mil, where the dil genuinely loved the inlaws. this probably happened because the girl was brought up that way, ie to respect the pugundha veedu, and hence thanks to this programming, conformed outwardly to the duties and rules of the new household. quite different feelings during thalaiyanai mandhiram time.

in as many cases, i have observed, the girl used to by virtue of knack, slowly chip away the mother's influence from the son, till finally the mother found holding an empty bag. more so, if the dil was employed, and the family depended on the dil's income.

nowadays, the tables have turned for the better. i read the sort of pathetic appeals in this forum, for relatives of boys seeking girls - suspecting that this is probably a last resort, having exhausted all the matrimony sites, and a post here, done, out of anger or despair.

re first night celebrations, for the past few weddings we have attended in chennai, the bride & groom, professed they were too tired after all the tamasha of the wedding day, to pull up their energies and their interest in making love. for that matter, to these, it was not a novelty. it is something they had done before, but the sweetness now lay, in that it is legally and communaly sanctioned

wishing you the best....

 

[renuka]

I wonder whats the % of those who really have a "1st night" in the real sense.
I feel the % is very small for someone to be totally "inexperienced".
I think at least most girls/boys would be at least 1st or 2nd base before marriage.
I wont be surprised if some are 3rd base or even a Home Run.

 

[sangom]

I wonder whats the % of those who really have a "1st night" in the real sense.
I feel the % is very small for someone to be totally "inexperienced".
I think at least most girls/boys would be at least 1st or 2nd base before marriage.
I wont be surprised if some are 3rd base or even a Home Run.

I think it depends, at least in the present times, on what age they get married and the type of opportunities they had earlier - like place and timing of work, type of job, whether they lived with extra-careful parents/guardians or away from such, etc.

 

[Yamaka]

I think it depends, at least in the present times, on what age they get married and the type of opportunities they had earlier - like place and timing of work, type of job, whether they lived with extra-careful parents/guardians or away from such, etc.

On this very interesting and delicate, but important topic, what we did is quite "unbelievable":

As I wrote earlier, mine was an IR marriage without the support of families on both sides.. We know each other very well for three years, and we BOTH decided very early on "no physical fun - SEX- till officially married" and we never tried to violate that oath.

We carried the oath to our "first night" which turned out to be a "bloody night", and were comfortable only on the "fourth night"!

Disclosure: I am an Atheist, but I have my own laws of life!

ROFL.. then LOL.

 

[valli]

Dear Members and Shri Yamaka

We carried the oath to our "first night" which turned out to be a "bloody night",

Now I am going to carry on my thread to another level!

I just wonder how many unmarried men out there in this forum and in India in general know about the real truth about the 'bloody (first) night'???

Alright, let me be outright about this, there does not necessarily need to be a bloody (first) night!

Hymen does rupture when the girl is very active i.e. a. rides bicycle during her periods b. performs strenous activities during her periods like - sports, dance etc.

I have one close cousin who was doing both i.e. riding bicycle and dancing during her periods! Very luckily she did not have any painful periods and that added to it!

But the sad side is that her husband not seeing what he expected to see i.e. blood, literally tortured her for many many years even after having a beautiful child!

It makes me think that we need to have 'sex education' compulsory in India!!!

P.S. Shri Yamaka though I have quoted your words it is absolutely nothing to do about you or your wonderful post! I enjoy reading your posts

 

[amala]

I would have thought everyone knew about this hymen thing by now. And also another thing to note is that there are some girls born without a hymen even. So you cannot rupture what wasn't there in the first place!

 

[renuka]

I would have thought everyone knew about this hymen thing by now. And also another thing to note is that there are some girls born without a hymen even. So you cannot rupture what wasn't there in the first place!

Anyway most men are the least bothered these days for this unless he is a Vampire!!

I remember having a patient who was not a virgin and so so worried that her future husband would find out and she was so scared.
I gave her tips how to preform a Kegels (voluntary contraction of the pubcoccygeus muscle..for those who wonder whats this muscle...when you urinate next..try to stop urinating midway..that muscle you use is the pubococcygeus)..Ok now back to the story..I told her do that for the first few days while intercourse and dont allow anything to happen and also hold the breath and he will surely think "Wow this must have been some No entry zone".

She is happily married now with a few children..he never found out.

 

[kunjuppu]

renus,

i am not so sure about the need 'to show blood' disappearing.

i have read that the #1 cosmetic surgery in paris, is for arab women to restore their hymen, and it is very important to prove the sign of rupture and ensuing blood in the sheets, the day after the wedding, to relatives and friends.

i know this is the practice in arab villages, but it appears to have crept into their new socities in europe too.

i do not know if in india such blatant display is prevalent. if it be so, i can see a surge in demand for 'restore of hymen' surgeries.

ofcourse in the west, nobody cares. which i think, is the best attitude.

 

[sangom]

Dear Members and Shri Yamaka



Now I am going to carry on my thread to another level!

I just wonder how many unmarried men out there in this forum and in India in general know about the real truth about the 'bloody (first) night'???

Alright, let me be outright about this, there does not necessarily need to be a bloody (first) night!

Hymen does rupture when the girl is very active i.e. a. rides bicycle during her periods b. performs strenous activities during her periods like - sports, dance etc.

I have one close cousin who was doing both i.e. riding bicycle and dancing during her periods! Very luckily she did not have any painful periods and that added to it!

But the sad side is that her husband not seeing what he expected to see i.e. blood, literally tortured her for many many years even after having a beautiful child!

It makes me think that we need to have 'sex education' compulsory in India!!!

P.S. Shri Yamaka though I have quoted your words it is absolutely nothing to do about you or your wonderful post! I enjoy reading your posts

The idea of hymen or kanyaa charma, imo, was somewhat known to our ancients also. In some parts of India, it is a custom (perhaps even today) to confirm the virginity of the bride by examining the bed (by specified elders of the groom's family) on morning after the first night. If my info. is correct this is widely prevalent among the Rajput clans.

So, like most everything else, the society has utilised the rupture of the hymen also as an instrument to torture innocent girls, I believe!

 

[renuka]

renus,

i am not so sure about the need 'to show blood' disappearing.

i have read that the #1 cosmetic surgery in paris, is for arab women to restore their hymen, and it is very important to prove the sign of rupture and ensuing blood in the sheets, the day after the wedding, to relatives and friends.

i know this is the practice in arab villages, but it appears to have crept into their new socities in europe too.

i do not know if in india such blatant display is prevalent. if it be so, i can see a surge in demand for 'restore of hymen' surgeries.

ofcourse in the west, nobody cares. which i think, is the best attitude.

Sometimes I wonder we Asians tend to judge someone's purity physically but westerners judge people based on purity of heart.

 

[kunjuppu]

Sometimes I wonder we Asians tend to judge someone's purity physically but westerners judge people based on purity of heart.

renus,

i would not go that far, re judging purity 'levels'.

i have found that in the west, sex is considered a mutually consented activity between two folks. while there may be feelings attached to it, sex by itself is not defined as an act to be solely conducted within the confines of a marriage. it is a more casual attitude, which is different to the eastern countries.

just different.

that is all. no more. no less. i think so.

there can be pros and cons to both.. and it is upto each of us, as to what we are comfortable to practise.

 

[renuka]

renus,

i would not go that far, re judging purity 'levels'.

i have found that in the west, sex is considered a mutually consented activity between two folks. while there may be feelings attached to it, sex by itself is not defined as an act to be solely conducted within the confines of a marriage. it is a more casual attitude, which is different to the eastern countries.

just different.

that is all. no more. no less. i think so.

there can be pros and cons to both.. and it is upto each of us, as to what we are comfortable to practise.

fair enough.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Members and Shri Yamaka



Now I am going to carry on my thread to another level!

I just wonder how many unmarried men out there in this forum and in India in general know about the real truth about the 'bloody (first) night'???

Alright, let me be outright about this, there does not necessarily need to be a bloody (first) night!

Hymen does rupture when the girl is very active i.e. a. rides bicycle during her periods b. performs strenous activities during her periods like - sports, dance etc.

I have one close cousin who was doing both i.e. riding bicycle and dancing during her periods! Very luckily she did not have any painful periods and that added to it!

But the sad side is that her husband not seeing what he expected to see i.e. blood, literally tortured her for many many years even after having a beautiful child!

It makes me think that we need to have 'sex education' compulsory in India!!!

P.S. Shri Yamaka though I have quoted your words it is absolutely nothing to do about you or your wonderful post! I enjoy reading your posts

Dear Valli:

Fine.. no problem.

I knew at age 28 all about hymen and its "natural rupture or decay" in active, athletic women etc.. I also know that good number of men don't know lot of this!

In our case, we didn't expect a "bloody show", but it happened and she said it's hurting.

I felt extremely very bad, then she told me "It's not your problem; it's mine, my membrane turned out to be tough!"

Yes, many men don't realize lots of this issues: some women will have very tender membrane and others much tougher ones.

Some men want to see a "bloody show", they may be disappointed.. all part of some sort of Superstition, IMO.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

"i have found that in the west, sex is considered a mutually consented activity between two folks. while there may be feelings attached to it, sex by itself is not defined as an act to be solely conducted within the confines of a marriage. it is a more casual attitude, which is different to the eastern countries."post 62.

K:

When I went to Madurai for my college studies in 1967 (I was 16 year old village kid), I happened to see my first English movie there: the title was Sex & Your Body or some such thing.. it dealt with various sexually transmitted diseases and how one would lose the health etc.

After seeing the movie in that tender age, I left the theater very frightened. I mumbled to myself "Man.. I should never have sex outside the marriage".

That stayed with me till today!

Strange!

 

[Yamaka]

On Men, Women and Sexuality: An impression

When it comes to sex, most men are very selfish and possibly very ignorant! LOL.

When I read scientific literature on human sexuality, I get this:

Most men (nearly 90%) get their "O" and sexual satisfaction very easily in about 5-10 min, while most women don't get it in that short time.

Most women after sex say "Is that all? I didn't get any satisfaction in this!" Because they did not get their "O".

Men's neuro-circuitry relating to visuals, sexual impulse and need for sex is quite simple and straight forward, whereas women's circuitry is very very complex.

Here is an Experiment -

1. Men are shown some adult movie, most men say "Oh, I am aroused and I am going to get "O" soon". This is corroborated positively with probes attached to their sex organ.

2. Women see similar movie, some say they are aroused, but the probes attached to their organ do not corroborate. In some, the probes say one thing and women feel differently.

Why is this complexity? Only Nature knows.

Most men get what they want in about 5 min and leave their partner in unsatisfied "limbo".

This is one reason that some Love Marriages end in failure!

(Arranged Marriages it gets lot more complicated).

What else is new here?!

 

[amala]

I would also go so far as to say that in the West sexual compatibility in a relationship is of utmost importance and most Western people (unless they are very staunch Chrisitians) would definitely want to have sex and no way would want a virgin bride/groom for the sole reason they are afraid after commitment what if the sex is not good/bad. So sex and sexual compatibility is a very important and many times deciding factor in relationships in the West.

PS: People are sexual at a very young age here and so they have started giving the cervical cancer jabs to girls here in schools from 9 years old.

 

[renuka]

Dear Yamaka,

You wrote :

After seeing the movie in that tender age, I left the theater very frightened. I mumbled to myself "Man.. I should never have sex outside the marriage".

That stayed with me till today!

Strange!

LOL!!! You should thank the director of the movie!!

 

[kaartikn]

I have 100% acknowledgment to the points raised. We lived in a different era where we find this rituals very awkward when a situation comes like this. I believe we have to take a conscious call on this kind of matter when we think & live in a different age.

 

[kunjuppu]

....Some men want to see a "bloody show", they may be disappointed.. all part of some sort of Superstition, IMO.

Cheers.

Y,

this is not superstition. this is cultural. in many societies it is imperative that the girl is not only a virgin, but proved a virgin to the near and dear, at the time of marriage.

since it is awkward to ask for viriginity tests before marriage, the proof is looked for after the cake is eaten.

incidentally, as late as 20 years ago for sure, britain used to conduct virginity tests for what they suspected spurious cases of illegal immigration - mostly from south asia - where there is a marriage of convenience on paper, supported by a fat fee, for a certificate of marriage of a girl, usually from a punjabi village of india or pak, or from some town in b'desh. once the girl gets her papers, she makes may to get her family in britain.

south asians appear still to have a love for britain so much that they would do anything to go and settle there

 

[Servall]

Oh Boy...I didnt have a clue my mere mention of the word 'First Night' will trigger so much conversation 'into' the topic!!

I will not get into the details or comment what has been so far on the topic. But there is some magic in the moment. In my case I did know my wife prior to wedding, but to this day she tells me that she wouldnt have missed it for the world. Yes you are tired, and not feeling upto it and so on.

But I will tell you, the ambience, the expectation, and what needs to be done are all things that one needs to experience. I can still smell the aging mallippoo and the gentle sweat that almost made me faint, and honestly there has been no perfume invented to beat that fragrance!!!...here is the lyrics to the song that we love so much as the FN song..quickly looked through Youtube for a link, could not find it.....

Chithirai maadha nilavinilE
thendral veesum iravinilE
uthami oruthi vizhithirundhaal
aval uravuku oruvan kaathirundhaan
Chithirai maadha nilavinilE..

Paalum pazamum irunthathangE
padukkaiyum virippum kidandhathangE
pasiyum kalaippum irukkavillai
paavaiyum avanum urangavillai
Chithirai maadha nilavinilE..

Kadhaigal sonnan kEttirundhaal
kanirasam thandhaan thiruppikkondaal
malarE maniyE endrellaam
vaarthaigal sonnaan sirithukkondaal

pEsinaan avalO pEsavillai
paarthaan avalO paarkkavillai
aasaiyaai ezhundhu kai pidithaan
appuram nadanthadhu ninavil illai
Chithirai maadha nilavinilE

thendral veesum iravinilE
uthami oruthi vizhithirundhaal
aval uravuku oruvan kaathirundhaan !
Thulasi Maadam

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Servall, Greetings.

It seems, someone else liked that song from 'Thulasimaadam' too! Here is the audio of that song..... PoW 771-970 (Mar 2009-Dec 2009) - Page 33

சித்திரை மாத நிலவினிலே
தென்றல் வீசும் இரவினிலே
உத்தமி ஒருத்தி விழித்திருந்தாள்
அவள் உறவுக்கு ஒருவன் காத்திருந்தான்
சித்திரை மாத நிலவினிலே.....

பாலும் ப‌ழ‌மும் இருந்த‌த‌ங்கே
படுக்கையும் விரிப்பும் கிடந்த‌த‌ங்கே
பாலும் ப‌ழ‌மும் இருந்த‌த‌ங்கே
படுக்கையும் விரிப்பும் கிடந்த‌த‌ங்கே
ப‌சியும் க‌ளைப்பும் இருக்க‌வில்லை
ப‌சியும் க‌ளைப்பும் இருக்க‌வில்லை
பாவையும் அவ‌னும் உற‌ங்க‌வில்லை
சித்திரை மாத நிலவினிலே...

க‌தைக‌ள் சொன்னான் கேட்டிருந்தாள்
கனிரசம் தந்தான் திரும்பிக் கொண்டாள்
மலரே மணியே என்றெல்லாம்
வார்த்தைகள் சொன்னான்
சிரித்துக் கொண்டாள்
பேசினான் ! அவ‌ளோ பேச‌வில்லை
பார்த்தான் ! அவ‌ளோ பார்க்க‌வில்லை
பேசினான் அவ‌ளோ பேச‌வில்லை !
பார்த்தான் அவ‌ளோ பார்க்க‌வில்லை !
ஆசையாய் எழுந்து கை பிடித்தான்
அப்புற‌ம் ந‌ட‌ந்த‌து நினைவில் இல்லை !

சித்திரை மாத நிலவினிலே
தென்றல் வீசும் இரவினிலே
உத்தமி ஒருத்தி விழித்திருந்தாள்
அவள் உறவுக்கு ஒருவன் காத்திருந்தான் !

Very nice song! Thank you!

Cheers!

 

[valli]

Dear members

Alright, much has been discussed about tamil brahmin marriage and the inconvenience of the girl sitting on her father's lap and so on!

Now, I want to know about the convenience/inconveniene of boys regarding the 'Mapillai ayaizhppu'! Those who experienced it - did you like it? Did you guys feel embarressed? What was/is your opinion?

What about the future grooms' view?

Kind regards

 

[renuka]

Dear members

Alright, much has been discussed about tamil brahmin marriage and the inconvenience of the girl sitting on her father's lap and so on!

Now, I want to know about the convenience/inconveniene of boys regarding the 'Mapillai ayaizhppu'! Those who experienced it - did you like it? Did you guys feel embarressed? What was/is your opinion?

What about the future grooms' view?

Kind regards

Can anyone tell me whats 'Mapillai ayaizhppu'!

BTW I was thinking did the tradition of the bride sitting on fathers lap come becos of child marriages of yesteryears(so a child is lovingly held by father and thus prevented from running around and playing at the wedding)?

Correct me if wrong.

 

[valli]

Alright Renu

I am sure that your questions will be answered soon!

I am going to be naughty in my own thread! I have got so much hooked to this song in the recent past and it is really, really lovely!!! Thanks to Kunjuppu for introducing me to this song!

So here goes the song from the move 'Vaagai Sooda Vaa' - Vaagai Sooda Vaa-Sara Sara Saara Kathu HQ Video Song - YouTube

Love