I think that it is right Renu, as far as I know! But are the brides any more children to be sat on the dad's lap?
In regads to your question regarding the 'mappilai azhaippu' - I will answer tomorrow if there is no other member answering to this!
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Tamil Brahmins marriage
- Thread starter valli
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I think that it is right Renu, as far as I know! But are the brides any more children to be sat on the dad's lap?
In regads to your question regarding the 'mappilai azhaippu' - I will answer tomorrow if there is no other member answering to this!
valli,
50 years ago, when children were aplenty, jaanavaasam or mappillai azhaippu was a big thamasha looked forward by one and all.
to narrate from 'washingtonil thirumanam', the main ingredients were an open car, nadaswaram, lots of bejewelled women carrying fruits and goodies, sombre men discussing in whispers whatever, lots of kids running about, squishing the groom, who used to sit like a dressed up doll in the back of the car, crowded by the kids, and the petromax lamps carryied by nari kuravas, followed by the barking dogs.
it was a must, that every once ina while a toddler would be thrust on his lap, who would sqeal and howl, and invariable one of them would wet the new mapillai suit, and in rare cases even stain it with their business. all in good fun and tolerated those times.
it was more a procession for the public. traffic would stop, people would ogle, and make discrete enquiries as to who and whereabouts of the mapillai. by the time i married, this practice was on the wane, and for moi, it was a quick private trip to a temple near the would be inlaw's house, a quick prayer and back to the mandapam for food.
in recent marriages, this has been shelved in india.
but in toronto, we have adopted the north indian baraat with gusto. on wedding morning, the bridegroom arrives to the mandapam perched uncertainly on a goda, with a sardar doing the bhangra beat, the more energetic mamis and mamas doing the 'light bulb', if they can muster up the energy early morning
go with the flow, i say
50 years ago, when children were aplenty, jaanavaasam or mappillai azhaippu was a big thamasha looked forward by one and all.
to narrate from 'washingtonil thirumanam', the main ingredients were an open car, nadaswaram, lots of bejewelled women carrying fruits and goodies, sombre men discussing in whispers whatever, lots of kids running about, squishing the groom, who used to sit like a dressed up doll in the back of the car, crowded by the kids, and the petromax lamps carryied by nari kuravas, followed by the barking dogs.
it was a must, that every once ina while a toddler would be thrust on his lap, who would sqeal and howl, and invariable one of them would wet the new mapillai suit, and in rare cases even stain it with their business. all in good fun and tolerated those times.
it was more a procession for the public. traffic would stop, people would ogle, and make discrete enquiries as to who and whereabouts of the mapillai. by the time i married, this practice was on the wane, and for moi, it was a quick private trip to a temple near the would be inlaw's house, a quick prayer and back to the mandapam for food.
in recent marriages, this has been shelved in india.
but in toronto, we have adopted the north indian baraat with gusto. on wedding morning, the bridegroom arrives to the mandapam perched uncertainly on a goda, with a sardar doing the bhangra beat, the more energetic mamis and mamas doing the 'light bulb', if they can muster up the energy early morning
go with the flow, i say
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Would there be anything wrong with the groom sitting in his mom's lap as well? I think the brides wouldn't take that one lying down! (figuratively speaking).
Ok personally speaking I just love this whole custom/idea of sitting on my dad's lap during thali kattu. Its the most special and unique thing and very intimate. This is the sole reason why I love the tambrahm style wedding. In fact i had decided years ago i want to sit on my dad's lap, whoever I marry, even if he isn't tb because i love this custom. This is probably the 1st and last chance i ever have of sitting on my dad's lap. We haven't done that since we were what? 11 perhaps....so yeah i don't care what anyone says. I shall insist on this
Having said that, of course it is upto the father/daughter to decide on this if one is too frail and the other weighty or something.
PS: This definitely beats the Telugu custom of having to put the bride in a basket or pot or some such and all her mamas (mother's brothers or cousin brothers) have to carry her to the mandapam. Probably in case she does a runner!
but in toronto, we have adopted the north indian baraat with gusto. on wedding morning, the bridegroom arrives to the mandapam perched uncertainly on a goda, with a sardar doing the bhangra beat, the more energetic mamis and mamas doing the 'light bulb', if they can muster up the energy early morning
go with the flow, i say
So a Tambram on a ghoda? Really? I am quite impressed by Toronto!
Chain around the neck, ring around the toe, iron bangle around the hand (in some cultures), all one and the same. All variations of the handcuff, that's all!
Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.
Mostly, Tamil Brahmin weddings are conducted by the bride's family. So, they also act as hosts to the groom family. Usually, the groom & his family goes to the nearest temple (just a psychologically auspicious venue) and proceeds to the wedding venue from there. Well, majority of the boys travel the short distance in a rented covertible car; I have seen grooms going in cycle-rickshaw. ( I got married in my own village. I walked. I didn't know the benefits of walking! It was great!). At the wedding venue, the groom gets received by the bride. That is known as 'mapillai azhaippu'.
Cheers!
renuka
Well-known member
Thanks Raghy dear,
You know out here its different..when I got married..the guys side will come take the girl to the marriage hall and the guy comes himself in a car for the wedding.
The groom is not received by the girls side..he comes there on his own before the bride comes cos in Malaysia Non Brahmin marriage all the expenses for the marriage is by the groom side only.
Only the engagement is by the girls side.
So in Malaysia if you have many sons there goes all your money!!!
Sowwbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.
In Tamil Nadu too, amoung NBs, it is customary for the groom side to foot the expenses for the wedding. In those marriages, it would be 'penn azhaippu' on the eve of the wedding.
Cheers!
raghy,
from what i know and hear, this situation does not exist anymore.
already in 60s, with the start of spread of knowledge base away from tambram/pillai/mudaliar to other castes,during the initial transformation stages, the prospect of an urban educated groom became an attractive proposition.
the law of supply and demand stepped in, and very soon, the concept of dowry from the girls and the girls' side footing the wedding expenses made its ugly inauguration.
nowadays with aplenty of male graduates, and female NBs still lagging behind their 'upper caste' sisters in education, job skills, career paths and (rural girls' parents) status sybol of படிச்ச மாப்பிள்ளை, the boys demand, (& GET), dowries running into tens of lakhs of rupees.
many a times, it is not so blatantly termed as dowry. it could be setting up a medical practice, and if he is a specialist, investing in expensive equipments such as xray or scanning or blood test labs and such like.
which is why, when these guys fall in love and marry upper caste girls, for them a trophy wife, these poor girls are constantly harassed by the boy's family. because these u.c. girls come with no dowry or support from their parents, and the boys' parents feel 'deprived' of a good chunk of money, gold and other luxuries.
on occassions, the boys, due to constant family badgering, fall into the trap laid by the parents, and end up harassing the girls, forcing them to abandon their 'love', divorce. and then end up marrying their own caste, for a fat dowry and community acceptance.
interestingly, the case of prashant, the actor, a mudaliar, is a case worth mentioning here. the knowledge is public, for those following movie news. prashant, at the height of his career, got into an arranged marriage, with a rural girl. the price of marrying this country bumpkin, was tons of gold (believe me, it was easier to measure as fraction of ton, than in numbers of sovereigns.).
the facts are a bit hazy here. apparently the girl had someone else in mind, and it was discovered after the marriage, that she was indeed carrying a baby. prashant denied parenthood to the baby, divorced. which the wife objected, even though she went back to her parents. with the baby, but without the dowry. thanks to the influence of prashant family (father thiagarajan is himself prominent in tamil filmdom) there is no more news of the eventual settlement.
there is a huge commercial building near arcot road bearing prashant's name.
unfortunately, all this negative publicity, sank prashant's career. he of jeans and such great hits, was subsidized by his dad into making a third rate flop 'ponnar sankar' produced and directed by dad, after 5 years of no movies. poor guy. or was it greed on dad's part.
i dont know. but a sad story nevertheless.
btw, indian penal law makes demand of dowry a crime. though giving of it is not. so in many cases, i have heard, as an insurance policy, bride's family pays the dowry, but publicly announces it and has sufficient proof of the giving, so that in any future situations, the girl always has an upper hand. after all, it is her word of mouth evidence against the spouse. and the law, these days in india, on domestic cases, swings towards the woman.
jai mata! jai பெண்ணினம்
renuka
Well-known member
Hey Kunjs,
You know that Prashanth case..it was Thiagarajan who wanted a "homely" looking girl for his son and did not want anyone from the film world and he married this rather matronly looking rich female who was actually married before to someone else by registered marriage.
She had ditched her 1st hubby when they had some misunderstanding..thats the story and BTW the child is Prashants not the 1st husbands.
So Prashant got the marriage annulled cos it was not valid anymore.
So remember "homely" looks can be like still water run deep but dont know why people still like "homely" looks so much like how many guys are crazy for actress Devayani for the same reason but I feel she doesnt have good features at all.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Kunjs,
You know..I see the trend catching up among NB here also who prefer to marry their own caste so that they can get a dowry and dont mind marrying a girl with much lesser education compared to them.
Thank God I am mixed caste so that all these rules wont apply for me.
My dad always says that the best gift he gave me is making me a doctor so that I dont have to depend on anyone for sustenance in my life in case marriage doesnt turn so well and he can be in peace that his daughter is not at the mercy of anyone.
You know..I see the trend catching up among NB here also who prefer to marry their own caste so that they can get a dowry and dont mind marrying a girl with much lesser education compared to them.
Thank God I am mixed caste so that all these rules wont apply for me.
My dad always says that the best gift he gave me is making me a doctor so that I dont have to depend on anyone for sustenance in my life in case marriage doesnt turn so well and he can be in peace that his daughter is not at the mercy of anyone.
Dear Sri.Kunjuppu, Greetings.
As far as I remember, dowry system existed amoung NBs as early as 1970s. I observed few Mudaliar sections and Nadar sections demanded and received huge dowry payments, many times more than brahmins. It had nothing to do with groom's education levels. In 2004 when I visited my village, my lower jaw just hung open when I heard our village ensnared a CBSC English medium higher secondary school; plus an Engineering college (quite a decent one at that. They have an affliation with one of the prestegious universities in Australia). Simple looking children have become Engineers! Girls study well too. I met my old classmate, a dobby (வண்ணாத்தி ) in 2010. She was still continuing the same profession; her daughter was studying in the local Engineering college.
But, as of today, only the groom families spend for the wedding. There is no change in that. It is a prestige issue for them.
I don't know about this. May be, you know of few cases. But, I know few cases otherwise. My own niece married IC; I noticed, she is treated well by her mother-in-law. I know of few other cases too. I can not judge from one Prasanth example. I have other examples that show otherwise.
Cheers!
As far as I remember, dowry system existed amoung NBs as early as 1970s. I observed few Mudaliar sections and Nadar sections demanded and received huge dowry payments, many times more than brahmins. It had nothing to do with groom's education levels. In 2004 when I visited my village, my lower jaw just hung open when I heard our village ensnared a CBSC English medium higher secondary school; plus an Engineering college (quite a decent one at that. They have an affliation with one of the prestegious universities in Australia). Simple looking children have become Engineers! Girls study well too. I met my old classmate, a dobby (வண்ணாத்தி ) in 2010. She was still continuing the same profession; her daughter was studying in the local Engineering college.
But, as of today, only the groom families spend for the wedding. There is no change in that. It is a prestige issue for them.
I don't know about this. May be, you know of few cases. But, I know few cases otherwise. My own niece married IC; I noticed, she is treated well by her mother-in-law. I know of few other cases too. I can not judge from one Prasanth example. I have other examples that show otherwise.
Cheers!
Sowbagyavathy Valli, Greetings.
What is inconvenient in 'mapillai azhaippu'? It's all fun. I enjoyed it. Actually, it was a bonus for me! Our wedding took place in a large house in our own street. The temple is at the end of the street. I offered to walk from the temple to the wedding venue (but, I didn't know I had to stop at all the houses, only about 8 though). I was just wearing a simple 'veshti' and a sleeveless shirt, with the inevitable garland. Surprise awaited me at the first house; I was asked to stand on a மணை, my feet were washed, nalangu was applied with the song 'சீதா கல்யாண வைபோகமே....'! It happened at every house! At the bride's home, besides nalangu and a song, ஆரத்தி was done. The same thing happened at my home too. Then I went to the wedding venue, received by the girl who is my wife for the last 30 plus years. I enjoyed it.
Let's hear the future groom's views now!
Cheers!
Dear Raghy Anna
When I wrote it, all I had in my mind was the 'mappillai azhappu' i.e. the procession in the car! All the marriages I have attended (of my cousins, I have 17 totally) the 'mappillai azhappu' was always the procession of the groom sitting in the car and little children also being sat on either side of him!
When my girl cousin was married off the groom refused the above procession and told our side to select a temple as close as possible to the mandapam. The girl's family made a special request that at least the groom sit in the decorated car and pose just in front of the mandapam instead of having the procession. So the groom walked from the temple and just sat in the car and posed for the photo and the girl was also made to sit next to him in the car!
Another male cousin of mine refused the car concept totally! So it was a walk from the temple.
Nice to hear that you had good fun and enjoyed your 'mappillai azhappu'!
Kind regards
When I wrote it, all I had in my mind was the 'mappillai azhappu' i.e. the procession in the car! All the marriages I have attended (of my cousins, I have 17 totally) the 'mappillai azhappu' was always the procession of the groom sitting in the car and little children also being sat on either side of him!
When my girl cousin was married off the groom refused the above procession and told our side to select a temple as close as possible to the mandapam. The girl's family made a special request that at least the groom sit in the decorated car and pose just in front of the mandapam instead of having the procession. So the groom walked from the temple and just sat in the car and posed for the photo and the girl was also made to sit next to him in the car!
Another male cousin of mine refused the car concept totally! So it was a walk from the temple.
Nice to hear that you had good fun and enjoyed your 'mappillai azhappu'!
Kind regards
Dear Kunjuppu Ji,
The info about Prashant the actor was interesting. Am told his ex-wife (named grihalakshmi incidentally) is no rural girl, her family has plenty of rural properties and very very wealthy....her uncle is a well established doctor in chennai city....had heard this divorce story aplenty.
Rumors go that grihalakshmi was in love before marriage and married the guy (venu) in 1998. The guy was a cheat, and so they seperated ways.
Much later in 2005 she agreed to marry prashanth. By this time she was seperated from her first husband for quite a long time; and she was definitely not pregnant with his child.
The child's father is prashant indeed. Which is why prashant complained that he is not allowed to see his son. Came across this -- Dailynews - My wife is already married
Now the whole point is Prashant himself has had a string of ladies in his life. What he himself was upto is pretty much whispered about. But the society practices double standards of nailing a lady for her one single past affair.
Rumours go that grihalakshmi despite bringing a fat dowry was harassed for more. There were also MIL DIL problems.
I suppose some MILs overlook all the deficiencies in her son, but are sadists when it comes to taunting and harassing the DIL.
Prashant is the only son, he has a sister. The receipe for trouble was all there.
Probably grihalakshmi realised what matters to prashant and his family was her money.
She probably realised after 2 failed weddings and a son in hand she is never going to get married ever again. Nothing prevents prashant from marrying again.
The lady rightfully demanded alimony of one lakh a month for herself and her son's future. But then Prashant said he wants to reunite with his wife !! and the alimony amount became a contested issue.
As for prashant's future, there is no audience waiting for him...Kollywood has moved on to making technically advanced movies these days..
The man probably has to thank his parents for his failed film career and his failed wedding. ...Anyways, prashant's family is quite wealthy, and i suppose business, real estate investments, etc are always available..
Btw, i thot grihalakshmi is pretty, her pix.....everyone is beautiful in their own right. Asian features does not make anyone less beautiful...
Anyways, i suppose beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder...if one likes an other person, the other person will automatically look beautiful. The sense of 'attraction' to me depends on past life vasanas.
If one does not like an other person, then even aishwarya rai wud look ordinary or ugly. Which is why possibly we see so many negative comments on the looks of beautiful women like aishwarya rai, vidya balan, preity zinta, etc...
The info about Prashant the actor was interesting. Am told his ex-wife (named grihalakshmi incidentally) is no rural girl, her family has plenty of rural properties and very very wealthy....her uncle is a well established doctor in chennai city....had heard this divorce story aplenty.
Rumors go that grihalakshmi was in love before marriage and married the guy (venu) in 1998. The guy was a cheat, and so they seperated ways.
Much later in 2005 she agreed to marry prashanth. By this time she was seperated from her first husband for quite a long time; and she was definitely not pregnant with his child.
The child's father is prashant indeed. Which is why prashant complained that he is not allowed to see his son. Came across this -- Dailynews - My wife is already married
Now the whole point is Prashant himself has had a string of ladies in his life. What he himself was upto is pretty much whispered about. But the society practices double standards of nailing a lady for her one single past affair.
Rumours go that grihalakshmi despite bringing a fat dowry was harassed for more. There were also MIL DIL problems.
I suppose some MILs overlook all the deficiencies in her son, but are sadists when it comes to taunting and harassing the DIL.
Prashant is the only son, he has a sister. The receipe for trouble was all there.
Probably grihalakshmi realised what matters to prashant and his family was her money.
She probably realised after 2 failed weddings and a son in hand she is never going to get married ever again. Nothing prevents prashant from marrying again.
The lady rightfully demanded alimony of one lakh a month for herself and her son's future. But then Prashant said he wants to reunite with his wife !! and the alimony amount became a contested issue.
As for prashant's future, there is no audience waiting for him...Kollywood has moved on to making technically advanced movies these days..
The man probably has to thank his parents for his failed film career and his failed wedding. ...Anyways, prashant's family is quite wealthy, and i suppose business, real estate investments, etc are always available..
Btw, i thot grihalakshmi is pretty, her pix.....everyone is beautiful in their own right. Asian features does not make anyone less beautiful...
Anyways, i suppose beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder...if one likes an other person, the other person will automatically look beautiful. The sense of 'attraction' to me depends on past life vasanas.
If one does not like an other person, then even aishwarya rai wud look ordinary or ugly. Which is why possibly we see so many negative comments on the looks of beautiful women like aishwarya rai, vidya balan, preity zinta, etc...
Valli dear, imagine the inconvenience those days when there was no car and the poor groom had to break his back on a horse or even an elephant...i heard rumors of men being too sore to perform the first night...also heard that long term horse riding makes a man go kaput down there (damages testicles i hear, which was the top reason for impotence those days)...i suppose women have had it easy in this matter, they just need to sit pretty and wait for the groom to arrive.
sangom
0
Happy,
horse-back "mappillai azhaippu" (MA) has come from Rajputs I think. None of the ordinary hindus of Kerala used horses; of course, elephants were used in the procession by the royalty and such-like but the groom was either in a palnquin or a throne carried by bearers just as idols are taken around in utsavams.
Only when motor car came the tabras took to it in an eager way.
BTW, I did not want MA, nalanku, etc., and our marriage went off without those, 47 years ago.
Dear Sir,
I don't know about Kerala but i think groom on horse back was quite common in southern india across various communities. I had a kallar friend whose groom came on horse back. I also heard a kallar groom came for his wedding sitting on a elephant about 15 years back in his village. Among telugu NBs, grooms on horseback was fairly common in the past am told, which is why grooms wear their wedding dhoti parted between the legs like this to be able to sit on a horse.
Am told horse was the only means of transport for tax collectors back then. As such men generally used horses. Women ofcourse were doomed to bullock carts. When cars came, the horse was seen as poor man's transport. Somehow cars became the must-haves for mappilai azaipu. Families still using the horse in the 60s and 70s were seen as backward. Not many could afford a motor car back then.
Regards.
In olden days, the boys side should offer every thing to get a girl in marriage. But poor Brahmins had nothing except perhaps the darbhai, not even umi, varatti requirements for doing yagnya. Continued for centuries the tabras have not known what to give up and what to hold on. Conveniently they have given up yagnyas, etc. but hold on to milking the girl's side. Particularly the maamis with 'rmkv' sarees, etc. pretend to be poor to milk the other side!
Our marriages have lost their significance and marriages are places where people show their strengths - jewellery wise.
One more opportunity for people to just waste food and wash off their hands.
Also these have become big places for gossip. A and b are married for 4 years and still they have no children. I am sure he or she has a problem.
One more opportunity for people to just waste food and wash off their hands.
Also these have become big places for gossip. A and b are married for 4 years and still they have no children. I am sure he or she has a problem.
sangom
0
The site exotic india art has been unavailable for a long time here. How did you get to view it?
sangom
0
Shri iyya,
The amount spent on saris for near and not-so-near females in a typical tabra marriage is horrible I will say. And invariably there are complaints, both generally - quality not good, weaving not excellent, not pure silk and ultimately a few pieces remain "not taken" by any of the intended women, because களர் நன்னா இல்லெ, எங்கிட்டெ இந்த களர்லெ நிறைய இருக்கு, எனக்கு சேராது and such like reasons. These sarees go to some undeserving people or are simply "lifted" also sometimes, if the concerned people are not very attentive!
You have said "the boys side should offer every thing to get a girl in marriage"; are you sure? I have heard only of kanyaa sulkam.
Dear Sir, i typed wedding dhoti on google and got the website. Found from mom that though they could not really afford to rent a car for mapilai azaipu still they wud do it as the system was catching up on everyone. People who could not afford to rent a car either walked or went on a horse (walking was more preferred by the 70s)....i really admire you for doing away with mapilai azaipu so long back, did you skip on dowry and demand for jewels also?
sangom
0
My wife is my uncle's daughter (my mother's first cousin's daughter). We knew one another from childhood. Dowry was, therefore, not even considered. But my uncle, fil, spent a good amount on the marriage, because of the practice then of relatives coming at least a week or ten days prior to marriage, as also the very large number of invitees he had to have for various compulsions.
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