The defeat and retreat of Hinduism

[vgane]

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How the Northern part of India despite being ravaged by the marauding Arabs and Turks from Central Asia who plundered and ravaged the country side, had its soul stood like a firm rock is espoused by Jethmalini in this riveting article

The defeat and retreat of Hinduism

 

[sangom]

How the Northern part of India despite being ravaged by the marauding Arabs and Turks from Central Asia who plundered and ravaged the country side, had its soul stood like a firm rock is espoused by Jethmalini in this riveting article

The defeat and retreat of Hinduism

Dear Shri Gane,

I do not get the impression that the said article espouses "how...had its soul stood like a firm rock", etc. It is a mixed message that I get and the most pointed one is that the Mughal attempt to synthesize Islam and Hinduism did not succeed. Why? The credit or the blame for this could be on either party, but as Muslims were the conquerors, I don't think the resistance of the hindus would have counted much vis a vis the intransigence of the Muslim ulema.

 

[krish44]

Dear Shri Gane,

I do not get the impression that the said article espouses "how...had its soul stood like a firm rock", etc. It is a mixed message that I get and the most pointed one is that the Mughal attempt to synthesize Islam and Hinduism did not succeed. Why? The credit or the blame for this could be on either party, but as Muslims were the conquerors, I don't think the resistance of the hindus would have counted much vis a vis the intransigence of the Muslim ulema.

akbar trying Dineelahi combining hindu and muslim faiths had no takers in both faiths . sufi islam bridged the gap somewhat. muslim is an intolerant religion. hindus without giving up their religion survived so long itself is a tribute to their religion and their practioners

 

[renuka]

Hinduism will always rule India..Indians love Hinduism cos that is the only religion which preaches inequality to its own followers.

Divide and Rule is the name of the game...thy game is Hinduism!LOL

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Shri Gane,

I do not get the impression that the said article espouses "how...had its soul stood like a firm rock", etc. It is a mixed message that I get and the most pointed one is that the Mughal attempt to synthesize Islam and Hinduism did not succeed. Why? The credit or the blame for this could be on either party, but as Muslims were the conquerors, I don't think the resistance of the hindus would have counted much vis a vis the intransigence of the Muslim ulema.

Dear Sir,

My father used to say I have two granduncles going by the names of V R Krishna Iyer and V R Lakshminarayana Iyer. They espoused their agnosticism/ atheism rather vocally, and were and are still well respected to this day. Many Keralites, including Pattars, revere them and the ideologies they espouse. Acc. them, Hinduism is certainly in terminal decline, and individual cults led by living and not-so-living 'gurus' are replacing organized Hinduism.

I don't shed tears for this state of Hinduism, I only wish these 'gurus' will disappear and society will automatically purge itself of ills such as casteism, religion and so on.

 

[biswa]

Hinduism will always rule India..Indians love Hinduism cos that is the only religion which preaches inequality to its own followers.

Divide and Rule is the name of the game...thy game is Hinduism!LOL

Renukaji, I think I have to respectfully disagree on this assumption. Hinduism is not a monolithic homogeneous religion. It is practiced differently in different places and itself has undergone a sea change in the last 50 years. People at least in metropolitan areas dont take the caste issue for granted. Nobody in Mumbai will ask your caste as long as you can "show them the money" and when people do Vinayaka Puja at home, they do it themselves to the best of their ability.

I think casteism is a social structure rather than a religious structure. Even French and Russian feudal society had several distinct social classes. As regards Hinduism now it exists in two distinct forms: blatant idolatry (the madness you see in temples) and philosophy (in Geeta study groups, and in this forum)

 

[biswa]

Well written article by Ram Jethmalani no doubt. Thanks vgane.

 

[vgane]

Dear Shri Gane,

I do not get the impression that the said article espouses "how...had its soul stood like a firm rock", etc. It is a mixed message that I get and the most pointed one is that the Mughal attempt to synthesize Islam and Hinduism did not succeed. Why? The credit or the blame for this could be on either party, but as Muslims were the conquerors, I don't think the resistance of the hindus would have counted much vis a vis the intransigence of the Muslim ulema.

It stood like a rock because of the Kshatriyas, the warrior caste

However what is intriguing is that the same Islam could do a mass conversion starting from Saudi Arabia to Iran, Iraq and the whole of Middle East including Afghanistan and most of Pakistan...Does it mean the natives were very docile to the marauding invaders...What happened to the fighting spirit..Or is it that conversion happened there with least resistance...Not much is known

 

[tks]

Hinduism will always rule India..Indians love Hinduism cos that is the only religion which preaches inequality to its own followers.

Divide and Rule is the name of the game...thy game is Hinduism!LOL

Dr Renu - I am sort of surprised by your comment and take it to mean that you are undergoing a personal revolution in your thinking

 

[renuka]

Renukaji, I think I have to respectfully disagree on this assumption. Hinduism is not a monolithic homogeneous religion. It is practiced differently in different places and itself has undergone a sea change in the last 50 years. People at least in metropolitan areas dont take the caste issue for granted. Nobody in Mumbai will ask your caste as long as you can "show them the money" and when people do Vinayaka Puja at home, they do it themselves to the best of their ability.

I think casteism is a social structure rather than a religious structure. Even French and Russian feudal society had several distinct social classes. As regards Hinduism now it exists in two distinct forms: blatant idolatry (the madness you see in temples) and philosophy (in Geeta study groups, and in this forum)

Biswa ji,

I get your point..but I feel the present day religious practice is a Spiritual Orgy where anything and everything is welcomed into religion..including carbon dated cultural practices.

Somehow I feel the more a person follows religion the more he/she becomes a hypocrite.
Yesterday I was taking a drive through town and saw some clinics owned by Indian doctors had Ponggal decorations outside and I was thinking that these clinics are the same clinics that conduct illegal abortions!LOL

So you see religion and culture does not shape a person's intellect in anyway..in fact it helps mask our wrong deeds. Religion is nothing but a mask that hides our nature from the whole world.

The first human that walked this earth in stone age needed no God.He relied fully on himself and his instincts.

Animals do not pray yet they lead lives that does not transgress the laws of Nature.

Humans have a God yet they do not measure up to even a Dog.

 

[renuka]

Dr Renu - I am sort of surprised by your comment and take it to mean that you are undergoing a personal revolution in your thinking

Dear TKS ji,

I have been doing a lot of thinking of late..the more I read the more I find discrepancy.
In a way I am glad that I studied Sanskrit so that I can read stuff in original text and make my conclusions instead of reading some translation.

Right now all I can feel is Religion is a bunch of lies written by man.

Man made God..man drew God in his own image and made up some story that God made humans in His Image.

The only person who had the guts the speak the truth was none other than Lord Buddha and His disciples decided to call it a religion but I am pretty sure Lord Buddha would have never had the idea of starting anything new.

I somehow feel any self respecting person would not hang around being a Hindu too long..it is totally not worth it...not that any other religion is actually better!LOL

It is better just being our own selves..no God..no Manangatti.

Just be ourselves..we would find our own way.

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

I have been doing a lot of thinking of late..the more I read the more I find discrepancy.
In a way I am glad that I studied Sanskrit so that I can read stuff in original text and make my conclusions instead of reading some translation.

Right now all I can feel is Religion is a bunch of lies written by man.

Man made God..man drew God in his own image and made up some story that God made humans in His Image.

The only person who had the guts the speak the truth was none other than Lord Buddha and His disciples decided to call it a religion but I am pretty sure Lord Buddha would have never and the idea of starting anything new.

I somehow fee any self respecting person would not hang around being a Hindu too long..it is totally not worth it.

It is better just being our own selves..no God..no Manangatti.

Just be ourselves..we would find our own way.

I hope you discover whatever that makes sense!

If anyone say anything else it at this point it would come across as meaningless and yet another manipulation.

I am guessing what you may be getting rid of is the notion of God that you and perhaps most people are raised with .. In an interesting manner actually that is a significantly positive thing in my view


All the best ...

 

[rhsarma]

If hinduism has to withstand modern day attack from the materialistic western world the hindus have to re-read the scrptures and imbibe the spirit of them.Further our education system has to include Gita in our carriculam

 

[sravna]

Dear TKS ji,

I have been doing a lot of thinking of late..the more I read the more I find discrepancy.
In a way I am glad that I studied Sanskrit so that I can read stuff in original text and make my conclusions instead of reading some translation.

Right now all I can feel is Religion is a bunch of lies written by man.

Man made God..man drew God in his own image and made up some story that God made humans in His Image.

The only person who had the guts the speak the truth was none other than Lord Buddha and His disciples decided to call it a religion but I am pretty sure Lord Buddha would have never and the idea of starting anything new.

I somehow fee any self respecting person would not hang around being a Hindu too long..it is totally not worth it.

It is better just being our own selves..no God..no Manangatti.

Just be ourselves..we would find our own way.

Dear Renuka,

What happened? How can such a staunch believer turn a non believer so fast?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

What happened? How can such a staunch believer turn a non believer so fast?

Dear Sravna,


An Atheist denies God..an Agnostic doubts God..I am not denying or doubting anything here and neither am I professing anything here.

I just want to be myself. I dont think being one's ownself can go wrong isnt it? Being one's ownself is not = to a Non Believer.

A Non Believer denies.

A person who is himself/herself is just Being and Becoming.

 

[Nara]

....I somehow fee any self respecting person would not hang around being a Hindu too long..it is totally not worth it...not that any other religion is actually better!LOL....

Your somehow feeling is spot on. Your comment on Gauthama Buddha as well.

In my humble opinion, we need to keep an open mind to any and all thoughts. and we need to apply all the faculties available to us and make as best a sense as we can of all the data we are taking in, and then finally we need to have the guts to follow what makes sense.

There will be a lot of people who will try to derail you. They will employ all kinds of tactics, they will mock you, they will scare you, they will say you will grow out of it as if being rational is a fad. I have seen all this. My recommendation for what it is worth is, follow your intellectual curiosity and never feel you have to toe the popular line, or be part of the majority. Truth is much more satisfying than being part of the majority. Being true to yourself makes you much happier than being true to falsity.

Best wishes for an intellectually satisfying and exhilarating your journey ...

 

[Vaagmi]

Renuka,

You have just started your journey. The first mile stone is still far away. From what you are now you will reach a stage where you will speak/write less and experience more. Till then copy and preserve this message of yours. When you read it then please share your feelings with us. That will be interesting. Till then...... good luck in the treasure hunting.

 

[renuka]

There will be a lot of people who will try to derail you. They will employ all kinds of tactics, they will mock you, they will scare you, they will say you will grow out of it as if being rational is a fad.

Yup you are right!

My husband suspects I am possessed by some evil spirit..my sons thinks I could be a spawn of Satan! My mum thinks I have gone mad..so far only my dad hasn't said anything.

But I am confident no one can derail me cos I am driving the train now..I am not a passenger or some person trying to cross the tracks..so others better stay clear..I might run them over!LOL

Actually I am not influencing anyone to be like me..its is just that others have a tough time accepting the fact that I want to be myself. I am enjoying this freedom...but whatever said and done I would still to be grateful to all religious text for being the launching pad for me to think like this.

May be that's the biggest secret of religion.

 

[biswa]

You are right Vaagmi. Once one has reached that place, one will not feel like dueling in the forum about every contrary point of view. I feel Renukaji may not be far from that point.

 

[renuka]

You are right Vaagmi. Once one has reached that place, one will not feel like dueling in the forum about every contrary point of view. I feel Renukaji may not be far from that point.

Dear Biswa,

Forum is the only platform where we can write what we like and have a bunch of people responding to it or falling for it!LOL

BTW I am not planning to be a realized soul etc.. I just want to break FREE!

Enjoy this song:

[video=youtube_share;o-Zo4AVL7AE]http://youtu.be/o-Zo4AVL7AE[/video]

 

[கால பைரவன்]

...but I am pretty sure Lord Buddha would have never had the idea of starting anything new.

Perhaps, but without his "disciples" people today would not know anything about Buddha or his philosophy. So it is unintelligent to discount the importance of the system (i.e. religion) which helped preserve what one considers the "truth".

I somehow feel any self respecting person would not hang around being a Hindu too long..it is totally not worth it...

To each his own, but it is indeed a pity if people find it possible to respect themselves only by denouncing others.

 

[renuka]

Perhaps, but without his "disciples" people today would not know anything about Buddha or his philosophy. So it is unintelligent to discount the importance of the system (i.e. religion) which helped preserve what one considers the "truth".




To each his own, but it is indeed a pity if people find it possible to respect themselves only by denouncing others.

Previously I used to wonder why Dr Ambedkar made such a drastic move by denouncing Hinduism and embracing Buddhism..now I totally understand what would have gone through his mind.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Previously I used to wonder why Dr Ambedkar made such a drastic move by denouncing Hinduism and embracing Buddhism..now I totally understand what would have gone through his mind.

Dear Doctor,

Any organized religion is the Opium of the People, acc. Marx. Godless China has done extremely well on all parameters. India, with it's billion and a half 'Gods', has done badly on most counts. I was never religious to begin with, but now I've realized any form of organized religion is a hoax designed to extract money from the gullible masses. As I always maintain, show me just one person who's really seen "God".

 

[tks]

Dear Doctor,

Any organized religion is the Opium of the People, acc. Marx. Godless China has done extremely well on all parameters. India, with it's billion and a half 'Gods', has done badly on most counts. I was never religious to begin with, but now I've realized any form of organized religion is a hoax designed to extract money from the gullible masses. As I always maintain, show me just one person who's really seen "God".

Religious traditions are all human conceived .. If the traditions and practices are aligned with universal principles then it will survive the test of time as a practice. Here definition of Principles are best described by Steven Covey in his book 'Principle Centered Leadership'. Most often the 'masses' do not have to understand the underpinning principles that gave rise to a given tradition. In reality though it is rare in most religions to find its leaders understanding the intent of a practice.

For example from little I know of Christianity - Jesus may have said with conviction about showing the other cheek ... actually that is based on very deep insights in my view but may not be so to the practitioners who have made the religion exclusive with their theology. Christmas all over the world is about making profits by selling useless things to guilt ridden people.

Hindus have Krishna temple all over with devotees moved by Bhagavatam etc. But very rarely Krishna temple teach Bhagavad Gita and its application to one's life since Sri Krishna's 'name to fame' is largely due to existence of teachings in Bhagavad Gita.
Many temple management and 'devotees' do Adharmic acts.

Religion can have positive effects - it all depends on the individual. Great many useful thoughts are preserved over centuries like Sri KB observed very wisely in my view.

Now regarding your question - 'who has really seen God' .. My answer is why care about that when the definition of that God itself is unclear. I can tell you that all definitions that people of any and all religion can come up with do not exist except in the mind of an individual.

There are deeper answers but first the questions have to get refined .. It is easy to either follow a tradition or just question it all.. To even make a small next step requires much more effort ...

 

[renuka]

Dear Doctor,

Any organized religion is the Opium of the People, acc. Marx. Godless China has done extremely well on all parameters. India, with it's billion and a half 'Gods', has done badly on most counts. I was never religious to begin with, but now I've realized any form of organized religion is a hoax designed to extract money from the gullible masses. As I always maintain, show me just one person who's really seen "God".

Dear Ash,

I have no problems if someone says they had seen God.

But what really matters is testing our own selves.

Letting go of the God concept is a test for our own selves.

Can we live as a Niraashraya?( a person who does not depend on anything?)

Believing in the the God concept is a pillar of support..can we manage without the God concept?

It can be scary to even think of it..its like a child learning how to walk and lets go of any support to try stand on his/her feet.

If we do not falter and take the first bold step how can we even know anything?

Giving up the God Concept is not being a Non Believer or being arrogant....its all about being brave to face everything that comes our way totally on our own.

Total freedom can actually be scary..but no harm tasting it.