try think brahmins

[kasi]

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dear cravi & shri revathi,

thankyou for your response, actually i invited women to post their views in this post because, i want to know what is their views in this problem of lack of unity, eogisms among brahmins. why this problem is growing more day by day between us because it is not more in our previous century,where more than 5 to 6 children will be there for a family. and they all will be united.

what is the solution and how we can make it? for that we required views and help from all sides.

as i said in my previous post our community or any other community can withstand if only the basic needs are fulfilled.

 

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

I heard that the unhelpful and egotistic attitude of brahmins towards their community members is due to brahma-RShi VishvAmitra's shApam--curse. Anyone has any idea about the reference?

 

[sangom]

dear cravi & shri revathi,

thankyou for your response, actually i invited women to post their views in this post because, i want to know what is their views in this problem of lack of unity, eogisms among brahmins. why this problem is growing more day by day between us because it is not more in our previous century,where more than 5 to 6 children will be there for a family. and they all will be united.

what is the solution and how we can make it? for that we required views and help from all sides.

as i said in my previous post our community or any other community can withstand if only the basic needs are fulfilled.

Shri Kasi,

I am now 70 years and, as far as I can recollect, there was more cohesion among the brahmins I knew because many were just above subsistence level then. Secondly, the fence of sub-caste acted both as a divisive factor when viewed from the totality of the brahmins but it also served, to some extent at least, as a uniting factor. Of course, even in those days, there were a few rich people among the brahmins - they belonged to different sub-castes - but they kept aloof from others of their own sub-caste group as also from one another because there was great rivalry as to who was the richest in the village and who should be honoured first in the community functions etc.

After Independence, the condition of the brahmin community started improving and a sizeable percentage among them graduated from the subsistence level to the surplus (or at the least, no-debt levels). Along with this gradual increase in material well-being, there also grew selfishness, the tendency to make the best for oneself and for one's immediate family (wife & children) and increased preference for "privacy" which is a pseudonym for hiding one's actual financial position (read prosperity) from one's immediate relatives so that none will approach for any financial aid.

This "look after yourself" has, IMHO, deep roots in our religion and philosophy. You may recall the 'svargArOhaNa' of the pANDavas; yudhishThira was able to ascend to the heaven in his earthly body because, he was unconcerned about his brothers or their (common) wife. But all others perished because they did show some consideration for others.

Again, what does our philosophy say?

yāvadvittōpārjana-saktaḥ
tāvannija-parivārō raktaḥ|
paścājjīvati jarjaradēhē
vārtāṃ kō'pi na pṛcchati gēhē||

yāvat pavanō nivasati dēhē
tāvat pṛcchati kuśalaṃ gēhē |
gatavati vāyau dēhāpāyē
bhāryā bibhyati tasmin kāyē ||

kā tē kāntā kastē putraḥ
saṃsārō'yamatīva vicitraḥ|
kasya tvaṃ kaḥ kuta āyātaḥ
tattvaṃ cintaya tadiha bhrātaḥ||

All such advices produce an impulse of extreme self-centredness in people.

The lack of unity etc., has definitely increased with rising prosperity of brahmins and, even if, by chance there is a marked downfall in the fortunes of the brahmin community, I do not think the disunity and self-centredness will not decrease, IMHO.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Kasi,

I am now 70 years and, as far as I can recollect, there was more cohesion among the brahmins I knew because many were just above subsistence level then. Secondly, the fence of sub-caste acted both as a divisive factor when viewed from the totality of the brahmins but it also served, to some extent at least, as a uniting factor. Of course, even in those days, there were a few rich people among the brahmins - they belonged to different sub-castes - but they kept aloof from others of their own sub-caste group as also from one another because there was great rivalry as to who was the richest in the village and who should be honoured first in the community functions etc.

After Independence, the condition of the brahmin community started improving and a sizeable percentage among them graduated from the subsistence level to the surplus (or at the least, no-debt levels). Along with this gradual increase in material well-being, there also grew selfishness, the tendency to make the best for oneself and for one's immediate family (wife & children) and increased preference for "privacy" which is a pseudonym for hiding one's actual financial position (read prosperity) from one's immediate relatives so that none will approach for any financial aid.

This "look after yourself" has, IMHO, deep roots in our religion and philosophy. You may recall the 'svargArOhaNa' of the pANDavas; yudhishThira was able to ascend to the heaven in his earthly body because, he was unconcerned about his brothers or their (common) wife. But all others perished because they did show some consideration for others.

Well defined Sri Sanjom...


All such advices produce an impulse of extreme self-centredness in people.

The lack of unity etc., has definitely increased with rising prosperity of brahmins and, even if, by chance there is a marked downfall in the fortunes of the brahmin community, I do not think the disunity and self-centredness will not decrease, IMHO.

I second your thoughts Sri Sangom...

Since Brahmins are extremely vulnerable in India, especially in Tamil Nadu, I have a deep rooted concern for the families who genuinely requires some support. For which I could just imagine of having local area level Brahmin Associations (for every communal area) to channelize unity, support (of any kind), and some activities that can help the present and new generation brahmin boys and girls to hold on some traditions and values that are exclusive to we brahmins along with veda parayanams/discourses etc..

In my previous post #81, by highlighting support to poor and suffering families in villages, I was not administering any kind of standardization (as a trust), for brahmins to stay united and supportive.. As I have suggested in my previous posts (and above), I was suggesting that such villages, suburbs should also be encouraged with the ideas of establishing local brahmin association to have the sense of togetherness, unity and support as possible.

Other than this, I personally can't think of any alternatives, for this issue to be resolved.

 

[C RAVI]

dear cravi & shri revathi,

thankyou for your response, actually i invited women to post their views in this post because, i want to know what is their views in this problem of lack of unity, eogisms among brahmins. why this problem is growing more day by day between us because it is not more in our previous century,where more than 5 to 6 children will be there for a family. and they all will be united.

what is the solution and how we can make it? for that we required views and help from all sides.

as i said in my previous post our community or any other community can withstand if only the basic needs are fulfilled.

Dear Kasi,

I do understand your concerns and I share the same botheration s.

Though I have excluded the interference of any Trust in this issue, very clearly in my posts (any trust can not be banked upon for such issues. We all know what a Trust is meant for and whats its limitations), I feel that, its been ignored to grasp and were contradicted, highlighting the valid human psychology with substantial examples, I admitted to have learned something and put an end to my thoughts towards this issue. Sometimes we need to follow "agreeing to disagreeing" and keep all happy here.

 

[C RAVI]

namaste everyone.

I heard that the unhelpful and egotistic attitude of brahmins towards their community members is due to brahma-RShi VishvAmitra's shApam--curse. Anyone has any idea about the reference?

Sri Saidevo,

You are right. But I really don't have any idea about the reference to this Brahma Rishi - Vishvamitra's curse to Brahmin community.

When I was a kid, I got to hear my grandpa saying this while he was chatting with some one. After I grow, I started pondering, why we, as like all other humans in this era can't take some initiative to over come this curse and can grow in unity. Having this much of pondering, I feel that the saying "Where there is a will there is a way" would be applicable only on a personal level and would make no sense on social levels.

 

[Raji Ram]

Shri Ravi

..............

I have seen in my life those instances where my relatives/far off relatives who were helped by my father (inspite of his meagre salary) do not even care to make a phone call.They were helped just because they were Brahmins (inspite of knowing their Gunams) and they do not care now.

This is my personal opinion ...

Regards
Revathi

Dear Revathi,

The previous generation was going out of the way to help the down trodden in their circle, without expecting anything in return from them.

My father who was a medical practitioner in a small village, used to bring the sick relatives and treat them at home, in spite of having young children (we are five). And my mother prepared special diet for them! As you say, not many are grateful!

The best philosophy in life is taught to me by my better half....

Give financial or moral support to anyone IF YOU CAN. Never expect anything in RETURN!

This seems to work out well, to lead a peaceful life. eace:

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Revathi,

The previous generation was going out of the way to help the down trodden in their circle, without expecting anything in return from them.

My father who was a medical practitioner in a small village, used to bring the sick relatives and treat them at home, in spite of having young children (we are five). And my mother prepared special diet for them! As you say, not many are grateful!

The best philosophy in life is taught to me by my better half....

Give financial or moral support to anyone IF YOU CAN. Never expect anything in RETURN!

This seems to work out well, to lead a peaceful life. eace:

Regards,
Raji Ram

Smt Raji Ram,

Thank you for highlighting the moral of the concept. What I ignored to administer, you have not. For every good doing, there would be a mix of good & bad responses to face. For few ungrateful people, its not wise to ignore all in common. Though as humans we get offended by few, we should carry more values to our attitude and compassion and can be happy with even a single person expressing gratitude.

Its an era of high competition, mechanical life & quick to do demands. In our brahmin society, since we could cope with the present challenges, we are losing any sentimental attachment to any sort of relationships and ignoring to look back our self and being considerate to others surrounding us. Other than ego, pride and sense of looking down our own people, we are now seem to be determined to be happy to see how high are we than the others.

Unless we shed such mind set and try to consider others as our own struggling family members, we can never achieve the sense of unity and compassion towards each other.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I agree with the views expressed by Kasi and others in this thread. In fact, I thought these things are there only in my family but I now understand that it is prevalent in other families too. Vedas and other sacred Hindu texts (for example, Garuda Purana) prescribe strict rules for brahmins. We can not expect to command respect just because we have a thread across our chest. We need to be above board. A brahmin ditching a fellow brahmin for Rs.100/day is not unique however to us. It is "Indian culture". Yes. We all know what Indians did to V.O.Chidambaram's initiative of swadeshi ship.

Loka samasta sukhino bavantu.

 

[Raji Ram]

Many persons expect the people they have helped financially, even if they are their own siblings, to honour them as if they are next to God!

This attitude makes them boast to everyone about their help.

Only if nothing is expected in return for the help rendered, this behaviour will stop!

Raji Ram

 

[sangom]

Since Brahmins are extremely vulnerable in India, especially in Tamil Nadu, I have a deep rooted concern for the families who genuinely requires some support. For which I could just imagine of having local area level Brahmin Associations (for every communal area) to channelize unity, support (of any kind), and some activities that can help the present and new generation brahmin boys and girls to hold on some traditions and values that are exclusive to we brahmins along with veda parayanams/discourses etc..

In my previous post #81, by highlighting support to poor and suffering families in villages, I was not administering any kind of standardization (as a trust), for brahmins to stay united and supportive.. As I have suggested in my previous posts (and above), I was suggesting that such villages, suburbs should also be encouraged with the ideas of establishing local brahmin association to have the sense of togetherness, unity and support as possible.

Other than this, I personally can't think of any alternatives, for this issue to be resolved.

Dear Shri Ravi,

The implementation of your ideas is the difficult part, in my view. I find, from my limited knowledge of our brahmin community, that even the poorer among them have a high sense of honour and do not usually go outside their small circle of acquaintances to share their problems and request financial help. At the same time if they do get some assistance from some charitable sources with a repayment condition, they are, more often than not, defaulters. The mindset is perhaps still oriented towards the old-world customs when rich people used to give "daanam" without expecting anything (not exactly, anything other than the "punyam").

Thus helping the not-so-fortunate brahmins is a tricky task. Perhaps that is why Sow. Raji Ram's husband has followed the principle of expecting nothing in return, even a sense of gratitude.

 

[kasi]

Many persons expect the people they have helped financially, even if they are their own siblings, to honour them as if they are next to God!

This attitude makes them boast to everyone about their help.

Only if nothing is expected in return for the help rendered, this behaviour will stop!

Raji Ram

shri raji ramji,

i will not accept this point, every person will have his good and bad time, surely he need help from another person. first he will go to blood relations(siblings,other relations) for help and then only he will go to his friends. its not wrong in expecting help from them. an individual human is always dependent to another person only.

thats our wish whether we need that help or not its our choice. 70% of the people is required another pesons help.

 

[ganeshrev]

Many persons expect the people they have helped financially, even if they are their own siblings, to honour them as if they are next to God!

This attitude makes them boast to everyone about their help.

Only if nothing is expected in return for the help rendered, this behaviour will stop!

Raji Ram

Madam

I have to disagree with this .Here in my case and few others I have seen, the expectation is not to get treated as god. A few words over phone, inquiring about the family is all we need- especially when some body is getting older, the expectation is to get some human contact occasionally.

By god's grace , as far as I know, money is not a problem among most of my relatives and no expectations are there from Money front . But a few words of enquiry will have a good impact.Ignoring a person hurts.

Regards
Revathi

 

[ganeshrev]

dear cravi & shri revathi,

thankyou for your response, actually i invited women to post their views in this post because, i want to know what is their views in this problem of lack of unity, eogisms among brahmins. why this problem is growing more day by day between us because it is not more in our previous century,where more than 5 to 6 children will be there for a family. and they all will be united.

what is the solution and how we can make it? for that we required views and help from all sides.

as i said in my previous post our community or any other community can withstand if only the basic needs are fulfilled.

Shri Kasi,

I know a relative of mine with 4 brothers and 3 sisters. Among them, all except the last is well placed in jobs with sambalams and Kimbalams. The last brother is not so- he has three daughters and a railway job and is away in the north india. The brothers inherited the land and the relatively poorer person was actually cheated - which I think he does not know till now - because he is in north.All of them are now elderly and the poor brother who is the last in the verge of retirement and five years back his wife had breast cancer. None of the brothers helped him - You know how costly the treatment is! the first daughter was in marriageable age and the two two were in plus two and engg college.

Forget Monetary help, not even an enquiry about the difficulties he is facing - Afraid he may ask for money!(his second cousins which includes our family and parent's sibleings helped him finally and from our interactions, we know that he is hurt).The other brothers who are wealthy - know all slokas, go to Kasi and rameswaram every Diwali, do their Mother's and Father's Thevasam in a grand way, boast of how they follow vedas in their life,Do Sandhi both times of the day,Chant Sashti kavasam and what not - But cannot even reach out to their own sibling!

This is what we are today.You are right that instances are more in which other communities help each other - I know when my friend's brother who is a NB and who is a doctor married his mama's daughter though they were of lower economic status and helped the whole family to come up.....I am not saying all of them are nobel- but in my life I have seen NBs better than B in this respect.

So this is one example of the behaviour among brothers and do you think unity will be there with more brothers and sisters?

So please thank god that some NBs came for help to you in your time of need and do not expect any thing from B just because they are B! Request you also to be of help when you can - irrespective of whether the needy is a B or NB!

Regards
Revathi

 

[Raji Ram]

Madam

I have to disagree with this .Here in my case and few others I have seen, the expectation is not to get treated as god. A few words over phone, inquiring about the family is all we need- especially when some body is getting older, the expectation is to get some human contact occasionally.

By god's grace , as far as I know, money is not a problem among most of my relatives and no expectations are there from Money front . But a few words of enquiry will have a good impact.Ignoring a person hurts.

Regards
Revathi

Dear Revathi,

'Since money is not a problem among most of your relatives', you expect only phone calls! Get in touch with a few, who help monetarily...... Then you will know their reactions!

Have you not seen the address in BOLD letters, even on the donated tube lights, in temples? Such is human nature, though there are a few exceptions.

Regards
Raji Ram

 

[ganeshrev]

Dear Revathi,

'Since money is not a problem among most of your relatives', you expect only phone calls! Get in touch with a few, who help monetarily...... Then you will know their reactions!

Have you not seen the address in BOLD letters, even on the donated tube lights, in temples? Such is human nature, though there are a few exceptions.

Regards
Raji Ram

Actually my father does that too without expectations, but always a one way traffic madam..You won tbelieve this - My father has every one of our first and second line of relatives' Bday, Weddingday and other important occasions and he gives a call. They are all over India and the world ! His philosophy is simple, today technology is cheaper and why not make some body happy out of this!

But younger generation (including me) do not reciprocate this....

This is the reality among TB

 

[kasi]

dear shri revathi,

Shri Kasi,

I know a relative of mine with 4 brothers and 3 sisters. Among them, all except the last is well placed in jobs with sambalams and Kimbalams. The last brother is not so- he has three daughters and a railway job and is away in the north india. The brothers inherited the land and the relatively poorer person was actually cheated - which I think he does not know till now - because he is in north.All of them are now elderly and the poor brother who is the last in the verge of retirement and five years back his wife had breast cancer. None of the brothers helped him - You know how costly the treatment is! the first daughter was in marriageable age and the two two were in plus two and engg college.

Forget Monetary help, not even an enquiry about the difficulties he is facing - Afraid he may ask for money!(his second cousins which includes our family and parent's sibleings helped him finally and from our interactions, we know that he is hurt).The other brothers who are wealthy - know all slokas, go to Kasi and rameswaram every Diwali, do their Mother's and Father's Thevasam in a grand way, boast of how they follow vedas in their life,Do Sandhi both times of the day,Chant Sashti kavasam and what not - But cannot even reach out to their own sibling!

This is what we are today.You are right that instances are more in which other communities help each other - I know when my friend's brother who is a NB and who is a doctor married his mama's daughter though they were of lower economic status and helped the whole family to come up.....I am not saying all of them are nobel- but in my life I have seen NBs better than B in this respect.

So this is one example of the behaviour among brothers and do you think unity will be there with more brothers and sisters?

So please thank god that some NBs came for help to you in your time of need and do not expect any thing from B just because they are B! Request you also to be of help when you can - irrespective of whether the needy is a B or NB!

Regards
Revathi

thanks for sharing, this is the real face of happening in brahmin community today, but most of them did not agree with that if you say so.
its too bad what that brothers have done? they are not even human beings its no use on reading 4 vedas, mantras, upanishads etc..

i think all know brahmin is a level (nilai) not a caste, it is to serve the people to attain god. in this century we cannot do like what it has been told, minimum we should be human beings, as you mentioned about that nb doctor actually hatsoff to him. they are in unity in other community this is what i want to mention when i started the thread.

non brahmins are having lot of respect regarding Brahmin's, i have lot of nb friends i stayed in their houses also. they know better than us what we like and what we do.

regards,

kasi

 

[sangom]

Shri Kasi,

I know a relative of mine with 4 brothers and 3 sisters. Among them, all except the last is well placed in jobs with sambalams and Kimbalams. The last brother is not so- he has three daughters and a railway job and is away in the north india. The brothers inherited the land and the relatively poorer person was actually cheated - which I think he does not know till now - because he is in north.All of them are now elderly and the poor brother who is the last in the verge of retirement and five years back his wife had breast cancer. None of the brothers helped him - You know how costly the treatment is! the first daughter was in marriageable age and the two two were in plus two and engg college.

Forget Monetary help, not even an enquiry about the difficulties he is facing - Afraid he may ask for money!(his second cousins which includes our family and parent's sibleings helped him finally and from our interactions, we know that he is hurt).The other brothers who are wealthy - know all slokas, go to Kasi and rameswaram every Diwali, do their Mother's and Father's Thevasam in a grand way, boast of how they follow vedas in their life,Do Sandhi both times of the day,Chant Sashti kavasam and what not - But cannot even reach out to their own sibling!

This is what we are today.You are right that instances are more in which other communities help each other - I know when my friend's brother who is a NB and who is a doctor married his mama's daughter though they were of lower economic status and helped the whole family to come up.....I am not saying all of them are nobel- but in my life I have seen NBs better than B in this respect.

So this is one example of the behaviour among brothers and do you think unity will be there with more brothers and sisters?

So please thank god that some NBs came for help to you in your time of need and do not expect any thing from B just because they are B! Request you also to be of help when you can - irrespective of whether the needy is a B or NB!

Regards
Revathi

Sow Revathi,

Almost similar experiences are there in other families also. In most cases the inconvenient truths are kept hidden from publicity but some people of course come to know.

My colleague (a tambram, of course) the eldest son, was taking care of his widowed mother; in fact his father died when he had just got a job and it was he who educated and brought up his siblings. The younger brothers, in the guise of keeping mother with them, made her sign cheques and took away whatever money she had and then left her to the eldest brother's care. She died one or two years back, the brothers came for the rites but on the day after the grahayajnam - after the younger brothers had left - the elder brother gets a lawyer notice alleging that he had unlawfully taken possession of the small street house which stood in the (deceased) mother's name and why criminal action should not be initiated against him! The poor soul that he is, he was completely shaken. It was his neighbours who came to know of these developments who told him that he can either fight and get his lawful share, but God knows when a judgement would come, or just keep silent if he is not interested in any of the property. In fact the house property stood in the mother's name but this seems to be (to me) a ruse to deprive the eldest brother of his share; as they say "mootha puLLai aSaDu" always!

Most probably the brothers will now come every year for thevasam so that they don't have to spend on that and at the same time make a show of brotherly affection.

On a different angle, it is the many instances like this - there are many - which makes me doubt the validity of Richard Dawkins' theory of gene survival, etc. (to which Nara refers often).

 

[Nara]

...On a different angle, it is the many instances like this - there are many - which makes me doubt the validity of Richard Dawkins' theory of gene survival, etc. (to which Nara refers often).

Dear Shri Sangom, a proper understanding of what RD is saying will clearly show that these instances of sibling rivalry you cite, only strengthens RD's presentations -- what you refer to as "theory of gene survival". To doubt it betrays misunderstanding. I have already answered your questions. Unfortunately, you seem to not accept my explanations but are not giving any reasons why. So, I am unable to provide any further input on this matter.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom, a proper understanding of what RD is saying will clearly show that these instances of sibling rivalry you cite, only strengthens RD's presentations -- what you refer to as "theory of gene survival". To doubt it betrays misunderstanding. I have already answered your questions. Unfortunately, you seem to not accept my explanations but are not giving any reasons why. So, I am unable to provide any further input on this matter.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Nara,

May be that I am not able to articulate my doubt clearly. I will try.

I presume that you made a statement that love between siblings (brother to brother, brother to sister, etc., ) arise due to the fact that such love will enable the survival and passing on of the gene. It was also stated that a brother's love for the sister enables her to find a suitable mate in life.

If these be true, how do we explain the antagonism, enmity, etc., which has the effect of destroying or at least stymying of the progress of the sibling/s? Should it not be that the affection between siblings does not turn into open hostility, at least? How do we explain these developments in the light of the gene survival hypothesis? This is my basic doubt.

I request you to clarify, for my guidance.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

Most of the human beings expect appreciation for everything. Please do not discriminate any one caste from the other! Very few persons are virtuous in any community.

I have traveled several times by bus during my college days, for about six years. Never have I missed at least one conversation in which some lady will describe the way she helped her family (especially, her in-laws), in a loud voice, to whoever is sitting next to her, whether known or unknown!

This has been my experience in this world.........

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[pannvalan]

I feel the title "Intra-familial Relationships" will be more appropriate for this subject.

1. Yes, I agree with some points mentioned by Kasi herein.

2. In many families, depending on one's earning capacity, how much he spends for other members of the family, his social standing (status, reputation
and ability to influence others in the society) and only lastly, his emotional bond and solidarity with other members of the family decide the
strength and health of the relationships others have with him and the respect/importance given to him within the family. ('He' includes 'She' too
here) .

But, please remember, I said only many families, not all the families where these things happen. Hence, please don't generalize.

Alright, how to tackle these in one's real life?

1. More than anything else, emotional bond and support are the most important things we expect within the family unit. If that is not forthcoming
to the desired level, there is no need to feel get disappointed. We may get these, perhaps to a higher degree, outside our family. But, right
kind of people shall be approached. They could be friends. colleagues, neighbours or even some poor people who have no expectations from us.

2. We have to introspect where we failed in our role. We may have to increase the frequency and level of our interaction with others in the family.
We could have failed to meet others' similar expectations adequately.

3. We must try to overcome our limitations in showering unreserved love on others. If this can be achieved, it will compensate more than adequately
all other shortcomings.

4. We need not fulfill all the aspirations of others in the family. But, we must be fair, equitable and transparent in our thought and action. That is
sufficient.

5. We need not justify each and every action of ours, but owe at least simple explanation for some of our important decisions or actions.

6. Once in a while, we must compromise on our stand and accommodate others' viewpoints and follow their suggestions. No ego conflict shall enter
this area.

7. While it is important to know what others in the family think about us, we shall not unduly bother ourselves about what others say.

8. We shall be true to our own conscience and if we follow this, we are not answerable to anyone else.

9. We must be realistic and practical and need not be very serious in each and every matter. In the sense, we must learn to ignore certain trivial
issues happening within the family and shall not blow them out of proportion.

10.Finally, we shall learn to lower our expectations and demands from others. If we are successful in this, we will have no disappointment and any
complaints.

 

[C RAVI]

I feel the title "Intra-familial Relationships" will be more appropriate for this subject.

1. Yes, I agree with some points mentioned by Kasi herein.

2. In many families, depending on one's earning capacity, how much he spends for other members of the family, his social standing (status, reputation
and ability to influence others in the society) and only lastly, his emotional bond and solidarity with other members of the family decide the
strength and health of the relationships others have with him and the respect/importance given to him within the family. ('He' includes 'She' too
here) .

But, please remember, I said only many families, not all the families where these things happen. Hence, please don't generalize.

Alright, how to tackle these in one's real life?

1. More than anything else, emotional bond and support are the most important things we expect within the family unit. If that is not forthcoming
to the desired level, there is no need to feel get disappointed. We may get these, perhaps to a higher degree, outside our family. But, right
kind of people shall be approached. They could be friends. colleagues, neighbours or even some poor people who have no expectations from us.

2. We have to introspect where we failed in our role. We may have to increase the frequency and level of our interaction with others in the family.
We could have failed to meet others' similar expectations adequately.

3. We must try to overcome our limitations in showering unreserved love on others. If this can be achieved, it will compensate more than adequately
all other shortcomings.

4. We need not fulfill all the aspirations of others in the family. But, we must be fair, equitable and transparent in our thought and action. That is
sufficient.

5. We need not justify each and every action of ours, but owe at least simple explanation for some of our important decisions or actions.

6. Once in a while, we must compromise on our stand and accommodate others' viewpoints and follow their suggestions. No ego conflict shall enter
this area.

7. While it is important to know what others in the family think about us, we shall not unduly bother ourselves about what others say.

8. We shall be true to our own conscience and if we follow this, we are not answerable to anyone else.

9. We must be realistic and practical and need not be very serious in each and every matter. In the sense, we must learn to ignore certain trivial
issues happening within the family and shall not blow them out of proportion.

10.Finally, we shall learn to lower our expectations and demands from others. If we are successful in this, we will have no disappointment and any
complaints.

Perfect notes, Sri Pannvalan...

Thank you for your valuable guidance. The above are the most important qualities one should have and make others in the family to understand and follow. This would help sustaining cordial relationship and healthy atmosphere in the family.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Nara,

May be that I am not able to articulate my doubt clearly. I will try.

I presume that you made a statement that love between siblings (brother to brother, brother to sister, etc., ) arise due to the fact that such love will enable the survival and passing on of the gene. It was also stated that a brother's love for the sister enables her to find a suitable mate in life.

If these be true, how do we explain the antagonism, enmity, etc., which has the effect of destroying or at least stymying of the progress of the sibling/s? Should it not be that the affection between siblings does not turn into open hostility, at least? How do we explain these developments in the light of the gene survival hypothesis? This is my basic doubt.

I request you to clarify, for my guidance.

Sri Sangom ji,

I had the same doubt as yours. But, I considered the citing - "a brother's love for the sister enables her to find a suitable mate in life" is a mere example of the genes motive of survival and passing on.

Though you have requested Sri Nara with your example, to clarify your doubts on RD's theory of gene survival, I would like to discuss with you, if not mistaken by you and Sri Nara, as how the same theory can be considered ambiguous, considering the sense of hatred or selfishness of a person (openly or through hidden agenda) towards his/her own siblings, other relatives and outsiders, IMHO.


1) Though the parents are fair minded and make attempts to instill love between the siblings, we can find absolute different motive, hypocritical tendencies and selfishness between the siblings, that gets developed at least at a particular point of time.

2) In many families we find Dayaadi fighting more intense and nasty than with other distant relatives or even outsiders

3) A brother's love for the sister can not necessarily enable her to find a suitable mate in life...This, IMHO is highly speculative/irrelevant. A love towards sisters/brothers can only assure love in return in some way and still can not assure consistency.

There are many instances that can expose the uncertainty and confusions in the motives of the genes for survival and passing on.

The love towards family members or to any one in common, can be considered as the genes motive of survival only in the terms of requirements, to be considerate towards others and be considered by others in return, so that the gene can have easy access to fulfill its desires. The genes have a differential predominant motive to find its way towards accomplishment, in general, in any sort of relationships.


Considerations towards own family member, relatives, outsiders and the tendencies to receive in return some way, is the only focus of the genes to keep surviving and passing on. These considerations and gains in return can be due to (with a) predominant motive of the genes as what to give and receive and the ways and means to accomplish.

This is how we can find multiple personalities in each individual. These multiple personalities are the predominant motives (that distinguishes with the acquired qualities of the genes of the parents) of the genes, that helps an individual to apply unique strategy of accomplishments through one self and others, in a different relationships.

With my limited understanding, I could only derive a conclusion to myself that, genes have their own inborn predominant motives & qualities other than the mixtures (through passing on), in order to attain accomplishments of some sort, through some ways & means.

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri Sangom, I have already given answers to this apparent dichotomy -- love on the one hand and selfish dayati fights on the other. I am giving you links to three posts where I addressed all these questions.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/5386-america-today-12.html#post64091

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/5386-america-today-13.html#post64200

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/5386-america-today-14.html#post64314

Since I have already answered your objections there is nothing new due from my side. Please tell me what is lacking in my answers. Simply repeating Dayatis fight won't do, as I have already given explanations for it that not only fit very well with RD's Selfish Gene hypothesis, but strengthen it.

May be I am mistaken, but I get a feeling you are determined to have this doubt.

Cheers!