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Vaishnava Paribaashai - Ayengar dialect of Tamil

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ykrrajan

ykrrajan

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Hi Everybody,

After a long time (around 2.5 years) , I am back to the forum. As told by me before, I have prepared a booklet for speaking Brahmin Tamil (Ayengar dialect. The reason is that I am not that much familiar with Ayer dialect and their special words. So I have restricted myself to Ayengar dialect only. My apologies pls.)

I am planning to release the pdf on the month of Shraavanam (Aaavani) after corrections and proof reading. The size of the pdf is around 15MB. It contains அக்ஷரங்கள் ( Letters ), விசேஷணம் வார்த்தைகள் ( Adjectives ), நாமம் வார்த்தைகள் ( Nouns ), பிரதிப்பெயர் வார்த்தைகள் ( Pronouns ), க்ரியா வார்த்தைகள் ( Verbs ), க்ரியா காலங்கள் ( Tenses ), பேச்சு வழக்கு வார்த்தைகள் ( Colloquial words ), சிறிய வாக்கியங்கள் ( Simple sentences ), சம்பாஷணைகள் ( Conversations ), வழக்கத்தில் இருக்கும் சமஸ்க்ருத/பிறமொழி வார்த்தைகள் ( Commonly used Sanskrit/Foreign words ), Twin Words (இரட்டைக்கிளவி )சமஸ்க்ருத வார்த்தைகளின் தொகுப்பு ( Glossary of Sanskrit words - Thanks to Smt Visalakshi Ramani for her tremendous effort) and commonly used provisions, recipes,....... .

I don't know exactly the maximum size allowable for attachment here. If attachment is not possible, how to send it to you all ? This remains a major concern as I am not able to send PM to get the emailids. Pls provide ur suggestions.

As this is my maiden attempt, I request your contribution in correcting my flaws and mistakes, suggestions and addition of new words in the effort. This would enable to refine the booklet into a better version than that of the previous one. I also request my fellow forum users to provide input on the the differing Ayer / Ayengar words so that I can combine the together to make it as a Single Booklet for Tamil Brahmin dialect.


Thanks and Regards,

Kannan Rangarajan
 
dear Mr. ykrrajan,

long time ... no see! :welcome:

I am glad you have successfully completed the project taken by you two years ago.

You may just post the work here in a thread rather than send it to individual members by P.M.

The forum has a larger audience and I am sure those who are interested will visit any thread, in any section, under any heading to read it. :)

In case you need to refer to my Sanskrit Tamil dictionary, you are welcome to use this link

Sanskrit to Tamil Dictionary - Visalakshi Ramani

The 4200 words are arranged in alphabetical order and all the words are tabulated in an index.

Each page has 20 words with meanings. It will be easier to locate a specific word here rather than search for it in all the 210 posts sprawled over 21 forum pages.

Good luck to you in your efforts sir! :thumb:
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
dear Mr. ykrrajan,

long time ... no see! :welcome:

I am glad you have successfully completed the project taken by you two years ago.

You may just post the work here in a thread rather than send it to individual members by P.M.

The forum has a larger audience and I am sure those who are interested will visit any thread, in any section, under any heading to read it. :)

In case you need to refer to my Sanskrit Tamil dictionary, you are welcome to use this link

Sanskrit to Tamil Dictionary - Visalakshi Ramani

The 4200 words are arranged in alphabetical order and all the words are tabulated in an index.

Each page has 20 words with meanings. It will be easier to locate a specific word here rather than search for it in all the 210 posts sprawled over 21 forum pages.

Good luck to you in your efforts sir! :thumb:
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot Madam for your suggestion.

In fact there were lot of hurdles, pauses and fullstops during this project. Anyway completed the same at last.

I have already included your set of Sanskrit words in the booklet. many Many thanks for your wonderful effort.

I will upload the pdf in this thread itself. Wat is the maximum size that can be uploaded here. Do u have any idea ?

Thanks again for your compliments.
 
VRji.
I see it for the first time. Excellent. I will visit that page more often. Thank you very much.

Visalakshi Ramani said:
In case you need to refer to my Sanskrit Tamil dictionary, you are welcome to use this link

Sanskrit to Tamil Dictionary - Visalakshi Ramani

The 4200 words are arranged in alphabetical order and all the words are tabulated in an index.

Each page has 20 words with meanings. It will be easier to locate a specific word here rather than search for it in all the 210 posts sprawled over 21 forum pages.

Good luck to you in your efforts sir! :thumb:
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the flier. Will you be highlighting variations between vadagalai and thengali paribhashai.

ykrrajan said:
Hi Everybody,

After a long time (around 2.5 years) , I am back to the forum. As told by me before, I have prepared a booklet for speaking Brahmin Tamil (Ayengar dialect. The reason is that I am not that much familiar with Ayer dialect and their special words. So I have restricted myself to Ayengar dialect only. My apologies pls.)

I am planning to release the pdf on the month of Shraavanam (Aaavani) after corrections and proof reading. The size of the pdf is around 15MB. It contains அக்ஷரங்கள் ( Letters ), விசேஷணம் வார்த்தைகள் ( Adjectives ), நாமம் வார்த்தைகள் ( Nouns ), பிரதிப்பெயர் வார்த்தைகள் ( Pronouns ), க்ரியா வார்த்தைகள் ( Verbs ), க்ரியா காலங்கள் ( Tenses ), பேச்சு வழக்கு வார்த்தைகள் ( Colloquial words ), சிறிய வாக்கியங்கள் ( Simple sentences ), சம்பாஷணைகள் ( Conversations ), வழக்கத்தில் இருக்கும் சமஸ்க்ருத/பிறமொழி வார்த்தைகள் ( Commonly used Sanskrit/Foreign words ), Twin Words (இரட்டைக்கிளவி )சமஸ்க்ருத வார்த்தைகளின் தொகுப்பு ( Glossary of Sanskrit words - Thanks to Smt Visalakshi Ramani for her tremendous effort) and commonly used provisions, recipes,....... .

I don't know exactly the maximum size allowable for attachment here. If attachment is not possible, how to send it to you all ? This remains a major concern as I am not able to send PM to get the emailids. Pls provide ur suggestions.

As this is my maiden attempt, I request your contribution in correcting my flaws and mistakes, suggestions and addition of new words in the effort. This would enable to refine the booklet into a better version than that of the previous one. I also request my fellow forum users to provide input on the the differing Ayer / Ayengar words so that I can combine the together to make it as a Single Booklet for Tamil Brahmin dialect.


Thanks and Regards,

Kannan Rangarajan
Click to expand...
 
sarang said:
Thanks for the flier. Will you be highlighting variations between vadagalai and thengali paribhashai.
Click to expand...


As far as my knowledge goes I do not see any difference any difference in the vadagalai and thengalai paribhashai. If you know them, pls go ahead and highlight the same. Always it would be nice to learn new things.
 
Hi VR Madam,

Is it possible to get Old Tamil Words which has the Grantha Letters and Sanskrit derived words. Right now in the booklet I have around 1000-1200 words of that kind which are being used colloquially e.g ஜாஸ்தி, ஜாக்கிரதை, அனுஜன். I looked in the Dictionary but most of them have been modified with its equivalent Tamil words e.g. விஷயம் being modified விடயம்.

I would like consolidate as much words as possible. Is it possible to get any online source for such type of Old Tamil words using Grantha letters or derived from sanskrit.
 
Dear rajan,

If you want to use the tamilised grantha letters like ஜ, ஷ, க்ஷ,ஸ, ஸ்ரீ etc you can use the unicode fonts used by a simple but excellent tamil software Azhagi+ which is freely downloadable from azhagi.com. If you want the original grantha lipi itself I do not know whether these are available at all. Moreover who will understand that lipi if you put it up in the net? Thanks.
 
Vaagmi said:
Dear rajan,

If you want to use the tamilised grantha letters like ஜ, ஷ, க்ஷ,ஸ, ஸ்ரீ etc you can use the unicode fonts used by a simple but excellent tamil software Azhagi+ which is freely downloadable from azhagi.com. If you want the original grantha lipi itself I do not know whether these are available at all. Moreover who will understand that lipi if you put it up in the net? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi Vaagmi,

Thanks for the post.

I think you have misunderstood my need. I was asking for the list of words which have Grantham letters as quoted in my message earlier.

I have consolidated a significant amount of words derived from Sanskrit and Grantham letter words and am looking to add on to that collections.

I was making a request for the contributions on this from all the readers.
 
dear Mr. Kannan,

The words which use Sanskrit alphabets is called as மணிப்ரவாளச் சொற்கள்.

I am sure you can locate them using a suitable search engine.

I think you already have a collection of 1000words.

Better to use the Tamil letters along with these letter
ஜ, ஜ்ஜ, ச', ஷ, ஸ, ஹ, க்ஷ, த்ர, க்ஞ etc.

If you are going to post using the original grantha lipi
99% of the people (including me)
will not derive any benefit form your posts.
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
dear Mr. Kannan,

The words which use Sanskrit alphabets is called as மணிப்ரவாளச் சொற்கள்.

I am sure you can locate them using a suitable search engine.

I think you already have a collection of 1000words.

Better to use the Tamil letters along with these letter
ஜ, ஜ்ஜ, ச', ஷ, ஸ, ஹ, க்ஷ, த்ர, க்ஞ etc.

If you are going to post using the original grantha lipi
99% of the people (including me)
will not derive any benefit form your posts.
Click to expand...

Hi VR Madam,

Thanks for the reply.

I was just asking for the vocabulary of Tamil words using Grantham letters and Sanskrit words used in Tamil.

I was no where mentioning about Grantham Lipi. There seems to be some misconception about my earlier post.

I was just looking for the source where I could find those words.
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
dear Mr. Kannan,

The words which use Sanskrit alphabets is called as மணிப்ரவாளச் சொற்கள்.

I am sure you can locate them using a suitable search engine.

I think you already have a collection of 1000words.

Better to use the Tamil letters along with these letter
ஜ, ஜ்ஜ, ச', ஷ, ஸ, ஹ, க்ஷ, த்ர, க்ஞ etc.

If you are going to post using the original grantha lipi
99% of the people (including me)
will not derive any benefit form your posts.
Click to expand...

Madam,

If you permit me I would like to add this:

The words which are drawn from sanskrit are not called மணிப்ரவாளச் சொற்கள். மணி and ப்ரவாளம் being the names of two of the navratnas நடை is what is called மணிப்ரவாள நடை. In this நடை the tamil and sanskrit words are used beautifully in a seamless way. The sanskrit words as well as the tamil words are either மணி or ப்ரவாளம். The combination of these two makes it a beautiful necklace. Thanks.
 
Hi VR Madam,

Is it மணிப்ரவளம் or மணிப்ரவாளம். Some sites mention the earlier and some later.

Don't know which is the correct one. Can u enlighten on this.
 
Yes dear Mr/ Ms. Vaagmi,

I stand corrected. The two languages Tamil and Sanskrit are the two ratnams
and their combination without hurting the style or causing hurdles is called as
the manippravaaLa nadai.

Manipravalam was a literary style used in medieval liturgical texts in South India, which used an admixture of Tamil (early Malayalam of Kerala) and Sanskrit.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-India.2C_1965_pp._35-37-1[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-New_York.2C_Springer-2[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-gov-3[/SUP] Manipravalam is termed a mixture of Sanskrit and Tamil.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-New_York.2C_Springer-2[/SUP]Tamil language was the language of the region, part of Tamilakam, at the time of Manipravalam's genesis and use and its introduction caused a significant transition of Malayalam from Tamil in Kerala.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-India.2C_1965_pp._35-37-1[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-4[/SUP][SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-5[/SUP] Mani-pravalam literally means ruby-coral, where Mani means ruby in Tamil while Pravalam means Coral in Sanskrit.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-6[/SUP]Malayalam is referred to as ruby and Sanskrit as coral.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipravalam#cite_note-gov-3[/SUP]This was prevalent in Vaishnavite religious literature in Tamil Nadu and literary works in Kerala.

Courtesy Wikipedia

Manipravalam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
ykrrajan said:
Hi VR Madam,

Is it மணிப்ரவளம் or மணிப்ரவாளம். Some sites mention the earlier and some later.

Don't know which is the correct one. Can u enlighten on this.
Click to expand...

dear Mr. Kannan,
The ambiguity rises since we use only one vowel even for the dheerga aksharam.
If I remember correctly it is maNip pravaala nadai.
I hope you will find what you are looking for! :)
 

Dear Prof Vaagmi Sir,

மணிப்ரவாளச் சொல் என்பது வட மொழியிலிருந்து தமிழுக்கு எடுத்த சொல்.

உதாரணமாக பாலபிஷேகம் (பால் - தமிழ்; அபிஷேகம் - வடமொழி)

மணிப்ரவாள நடை என்பது தமிழ்ச் சொற்களுடன் வடமொழிச் சொற்களையும் இணைத்து வழங்கும் நடை.

இன்னிசைப் பாடல்கள் பல இவ்விதமானவை.

உதாரணமாக, பெரியசாமி தூரனின் சுத்த ஸாவேரி ராகப் பாடலின் பல்லவி:

தாயே த்ரிபுர ஸுந்தரி உமா மஹேச்'வரி
ச்'யாமளே சௌந்தரி தாளிணை மலரே சரணம்.
 
Raji Ram said:

Dear Prof Vaagmi Sir,

மணிப்ரவாளச் சொல் என்பது வட மொழியிலிருந்து தமிழுக்கு எடுத்த சொல்.

உதாரணமாக பாலபிஷேகம் (பால் - தமிழ்; அபிஷேகம் - வடமொழி)

மணிப்ரவாள நடை என்பது தமிழ்ச் சொற்களுடன் வடமொழிச் சொற்களையும் இணைத்து வழங்கும் நடை.

இன்னிசைப் பாடல்கள் பல இவ்விதமானவை.

உதாரணமாக, பெரியசாமி தூரனின் சுத்த ஸாவேரி ராகப் பாடலின் பல்லவி:

தாயே த்ரிபுர ஸுந்தரி உமா மஹேச்'வரி
ச்'யாமளே சௌந்தரி தாளிணை மலரே சரணம்.
Click to expand...

Yes very true. Thank you.
 
dear prof. Vaagmi,

I stand corrected one more time.

But I like being 'rapped by the hand that wears a diamond ring'! :)

kuttup pattaalum mothirak kaaiyale thane kuttuppatten!!! :moony:

I do not have either the time or inclination to go through the profiles of member. :ranger:

So kindly excuse my NOT recognizing you!

I though I need NOT explain this slip... however I have done it now.

with warm regards, :pray2:
V.R.
 
Madam,

No need for all this naichyAnusanthAnam. I am an ordinary soul. I am rather embarrassed.

Here is an example of மணிப்ரவாள நடை:

Taken from PeriyavAchchAn Pillai’s vyAkyanam for Thirumalai by Thondaradipodi Alwaar.

பாசுரம்: திருமாலை 2ஆம் பாட்டு.

பச்சைமா மலைபோல் மேனிப் பவளவாய்க் கமலச்செங்கண்
அச்சுதா! அமரர் ஏரே! ஆயர்தம் கொழுந்தேயென்னும்
இச்சுவை தவிர யான் போய்இந்திரலோகமாளும்
அச்சுவை பெரினும் வேண்டேன் அரங்கமாநகருளானே

வ்யாக்யானம் அவதாரிகை மணிப்ரவாள நடையில்:

திருநாமத்தினுடைய பாவநத்வமும் அது கற்கையாலே தமக்குப்பிறந்த ராஜகுலமும் சொல்லிற்றுக்கீழ்; இதில் திருநாமத்தினுடைய போக்யதையைசொல்லுகிறது. ஆனால் பின்னை போக்யதையைச்சொல்லி பாவநத்வத்தைச்சொன்னாலோ? என்னில் பயம் போனாலிறே ரஸ்யதையிலே இழிவது: ஜ்வரம் அனுவர்த்தியாநிற்க, பால் ரஸிக்குமோ? முன்பு பாபத்தைக் கூடுபூரித்து யமபீதனாயிருக்கிறவனுக்கு அந்த பயம் நிவ்ருத்தமானாலல்லாது போக்யதையிலே நெஞ்சு செல்லாதிறே. (யந்நாமஸங்கீர்த்தநதோ மஹாபயாத் விமோக்ஷமாப்நோதி ந ஸம்சயம் நர:) என்று ருஷிகள் திருநாமம் பயநிவ்ருத்திக்கு ஹேதுவாகச்சொல்லுவார்கள்: ஆழ்வார்கள் “பிழைப்பில் பெரும் பெயரே பேசி” என்று போக்யதா ப்ரகர்ஷத்தைச் சொல்லுவார்கள். இத்திருநாமம்தான் ப்ரயோஜநாந்தரபரர்க்கு ப்ரயோஜநத்தைக்கொடுக்கும்: உபாயாந்தர நிஷ்டருக்குபாவநமாயிருக்கும்.ப்ரபந்நர்க்குப் தேஹயாத்ராசேஷமாயிருக்கும்...............
 
dear Sir,

"eppothum mEn makkaL mEn makkaLe!" :thumb:

We are all ordinary souls trying to do extraordinary things
to the extent possible, within our limitations. :ballchain:

I think my so called poems also qualify to be branded as MaNi pravaaLam
since I never hesitate to use a Sanskrit word or alphabet - if I find it necessary. :)
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
dear Sir,

"eppothum mEn makkaL mEn makkaLe!" :thumb:

We are all ordinary souls trying to do extraordinary things
to the extent possible, within our limitations. :ballchain:

I think my so called poems also qualify to be branded as MaNi pravaaLam
since I never hesitate to use a Sanskrit word or alphabet - if I find it necessary. :)
Click to expand...

I have not read your poems. I must do that sometime. Using well understood common words from other languages in poetry is a well known technique used by many including Late Vaali. Only required discipline is that it should not sound contrived. It should naturally go with the flow of the syntax and the language of the poetry without attracting attention to its 'distinctness'. If it does, it will be an avoidable distraction. Thank you.
 
Visalakshi Ramani said:
............ I do not have either the time or inclination to go through the profiles of member. .....
Click to expand...
Dear Sis,

Just reading the first few posts of any member will tell us who the member is!

FYI, Sri. Vaagmi is a Physics Prof based in Chennai.

P.S: It is always better to know to whom we are talking (typing) to! :)
 
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