We are born in brahmin caste but can we call as real brahmins?

[P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN]

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Friends,

In Bhagavat Geetha Lord says "brAnhaNakshathriyaviSAM SUdrANAM cha paraM thapa, karmANi pravi .bhakthAni swabhAva
prabhavairguNAI: " This means we are divided as Brahman, Khathriya, Vaisya and Shudra as per our SWABHAAVA in GUNA THRAYA. A brahmin is categorised so as per his saathvik nature. Are we satvik. Think!.

That is the reason why I told that we are not real brahmins but born in brahmin castes only.

Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

 

[renuka]

Dear Sir,

I am not a Brahmin by birth but to me I feel everyone is born with an admixture of all 3 Gunas in varying proportions.

Our Gunas are also as fickle as the waves in the ocean and changes tide from time to time depending on the surrounding.

No one is 100% Sattva, 100% Rajas or 100% Tamas.

As far as I know a Brahmin is supposed to be predominantly Sattva with traces of Raja and Tamas.

So it is not possible to be 100% Sattva.

No where does it describe that a Brahmin needs to be 100% Sattva.

The word PREDOMINANT is used..which translates as "being mainly composed of"

The knower of Brahman is not 100% Sattva too cos the knower of Brahman is supposed to be beyond Gunas(GunAtitah).

So technically a 100% of anything does not exists.


BTW what is the need to deny yourself your birth right??

Why do you need to say that majority are namesake brahmins??

By denying your birth right Brahmin status nothing is going to change..economically or politically.

Best is to just sit back and enjoy life by doing good and being good for human life is precious.

 

[sravna]

Friends,

In Bhagavat Geetha Lord says "brAnhaNakshathriyaviSAM SUdrANAM cha paraM thapa, karmANi pravi .bhakthAni swabhAva
prabhavairguNAI: " This means we are divided as Brahman, Khathriya, Vaisya and Shudra as per our SWABHAAVA in GUNA THRAYA. A brahmin is categorised so as per his saathvik nature. Are we satvik. Think!.

That is the reason why I told that we are not real brahmins but born in brahmin castes only.

Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

I quote from Wikipedia what it means to be sattvic:

"A person or creature can be called sāttvika if the creature has predominantly sāttvika tendencies. The name "sathvik" implies one who is divine, pure, and spiritual.
Sāttvika individuals always work for the welfare of the world. They are hardworking, alert, generous. They live life moderately, and have good memory and concentration. Sattvic qualities include leading a chaste life, eating moderately, using precise language and speaking truths palatably. A sattvic individual speaks compliments and avoids vulgar or insulting language, is never jealous, and is unaffected by greed and selfishness. Such an individual is confident and experiences abundance. It is not in the nature of a sattvic individual to cheat or mislead others. A sattvic person will show what is and describe destinations, but then allow others to choose for themselves. A sattvic person does not allow evil tendencies to enter his or her mind but supports an inner paradise that broadcasts out to the world; he or she will have keen interest in improving spiritual knowledge and will spend time worshiping divinity or meditating and, in an extreme state, may even perform penance or uninterrupted meditation. A sattvic individual can be recognized if their mind, speech and actions synchronize: manasa, vacha, karmana are the three Sanskrit words used to describe such a state.
Some of the people considered by Hindus to be sāttvika are:

• Holy men and bhaktas like Tulsidas, Tyagaraja, Dnyaneshwar, Tukaram
• Ancient rishis like Vashishta, Kashyapa
• Modern day sages like Ramana Maharshi, Aurobindo, Vivekananda
• Divine beings in the heavens
• Some flora and fauna like lotus (symbolizes purity), cow (symbolizes the earth mother) "

So it seems it is not really easy to be totally sattvic. But I would say that in most of the brahmins sattvic qualities predominate. It might have been overshadowed by pragmatism but given the right conditions it will reemerge.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri. Sravna, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #3. It is an egoistic message.

The Wiki reference to 'Satvic' is only an opinion, not a gospel.

We are born as human beings, behave likea human being and die as a human being. Only trouble is, we tend to forget that very soon in our life. We take the luxuries earned by our parents or forefathers as our 'blessings' for our 'poorva janma punyas'. That's when our ego and heavy headed attitude starts... some where in our very young age itself.

Why should anyone think Satvic Guna is superior to Tamasa guna in anyway? Kindly think about it, please? Who are we to decide?

I don't think I know 'life' very well. Last night I was watching a programme in Australian Broad Casting Corporation ( ABC). When the speakers were introduced, I thought I mis-heard one lady's profession.. Subject was about feminism. Participants consisted of a political figure, an editor for well known newspaper like Sydney Morning Herald.... amoung them one lady was a 'sex worker'. We are we to say which profession is superior or inferior?

'Using precise language!'... do you mean to say, we can't find a 'nice person' amoung 'Chennai Tamizh' speaking persons? Why do you say it is not easy to be 'satvic' as if to be 'satvic' is the best?

If we go by the caste, I personally know a lot of brahmin caste persons who were/are less than human-beings, leave alone having any good qualities. When I noticed you 'award' persons of brahmin caste to have predominantly 'satvic qualities' I can't help it but point out that message is egoistic.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

It is worthwhile to ponder over

how many of us are real human beings first...

considering the basic qualities required to

think, talk, act, behave and live like human beings.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Become a human first before becoming

a Brahmin/ Brahman or any other man!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Unfortunately as per the definition in the O.P my ancestors that is my Pravara rishis would not qualify as Brahmins. Bargava or Parasurama was not sattvic. He killed generations of Kshatriyas. The entire Bhrigu clan of Brahmins would be disqualified as they were the fighting Brahmins. Dronacharya, Chanakya would be among the hordes of Brahmins who would be disqualified. I am happy to join my pravara Rishis. If Parasurama was a Brahmin, then I am one.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Raghy,

What is sattvic is definitely not an opinion but has been said to be the attributes of a person whom we consider nice. If you read the definition of sattvic you will see all the good qualities one can aspire to possess and there is nothing wrong in preferring it to other dispositions. I am sure you wouldn't say that supporting good qualities is being prejudiced. I do not support the view that being born in a brahmin family guarantees sattvic nature and not being born in a brahmin family denies sattvic nature.

The point I want to make is that being sattvic is being intrinsically good and why would we want to deny that and worse still discourage that? I would be really happy if anyone would want to turn in to a sattvic person. The more the sattvic persons in the world the better place the world would be.

 

[P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN]

Dear Sirs and Smt Renuka,

Except Sri SRAVANA all of you are wrong 100% . "Satvic nature is serinity, self-mastery, religious, purity, patience, uprightness, learning and to know the truth of things which be". Never make it part but SATVIC NATURE is whole.This is what is required quality of a brahmin. NANDANAR was made to take bath in AGNI and taken on a chariot by brahmins to LORD NATARAJA TEMPLE at THILLAI where he joined Lord. This is because he had SATVIC NATURE. Although he was a PARAYA by cast he had SATVIC NATURE which mde him equal to Brahmin.
I saw the post by NACHINARKINIYAN. I hold our ancesstors responsible for changing caste system as a brahmin's son born to a brahmin lady should be a brahmin.This is absolutely wrong. Lord Himself has said this "karmANi pravibhakthAni" . Bhagavat Gita MOKSHA YOGA Chapot 18 Sloka 42 refers.

Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Renuka Mam, Your posting is excellent! I really appreciate such postingsand cherish the words 'doing good and being good for human life is precious'

 

[sarang]

Why agonize? One born of brahmin parents is a brahmin. Like one becomes a doctor or a lawyer by getting a degree from any college or university, even lumumba university of russia. To become a good, ethical and conscientious doctor or lawyer is upto him, by his behaviour and doing. Even a bad and inefficient doctor is not disqualified unless he is dangerous.

It is left to each one of us to become good brahmins, respect traditions and practices, nurture and preserve whatever we can. As long as we don't have a complex, mind our business, support brahmin related activities, and voice our protest when brahmins' interests are harmed, we are doing fine.

I do not find any conflict in spending some time in following my sampradaya, nitya karmas, and attending to other world activities - work, travel, social mixing, and the lot.

I follow sadhu Vaswani's words - stop complaining, start practicing.

Brahmins is varna and not caste. Trigunas are found in everyone; brahmins are not necessarily more satvik than others. I, for my part, would like to welcome those who are mentally tuned to brahminical values, to the brahmin fold.

Friends,

In Bhagavat Geetha Lord says "brAnhaNakshathriyaviSAM SUdrANAM cha paraM thapa, karmANi pravi .bhakthAni swabhAva
prabhavairguNAI: " This means we are divided as Brahman, Khathriya, Vaisya and Shudra as per our SWABHAAVA in GUNA THRAYA. A brahmin is categorised so as per his saathvik nature. Are we satvik. Think!.

That is the reason why I told that we are not real brahmins but born in brahmin castes only.

Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

 

[palindrome]

Are we satvik.

There is no such thing as Satvik. Humans could not have survived if they were Satvik. Before the advent of agriculture, humans had to hunt or fish. Humans adapted to food as available in climates all across the world. Those who could not battle animals and weather, perished.

The entire human population cannot be divided into 3 gunas. Such a concept is too simplistic -- perhaps the outcome of philosophical yet simple minds; who were not aware of biological complexity underlying human nature and behavior.

 

[sravna]

There is no such thing as Satvik. Humans could not have survived if they were Satvik. Before the advent of agriculture, humans had to hunt or fish. Humans adapted to food as available in climates all across the world. Those who could not battle animals and weather, perished.

The entire human population cannot be divided into 3 gunas. Such a concept is too simplistic -- perhaps the outcome of philosophical yet simple minds; who were not aware of biological complexity underlying human nature and behavior.

Yes humans could not have survived if they had started with satvik qualities. But satvik qualities are the need of the hour now. Given the devastation humans are capable of inflicting with their destructive weapons, humans would now be a lot safer if they can keep the aggressive tendencies in check. The fruits of all the advances made in science and technology, can only be enduringly enjoyed when satvik qualities guide the world. We do not have to fight with animals now but with animal tendencies.

 

[palindrome]

Yes humans could not have survived if they had started with satvik qualities. But satvik qualities are the need of the hour now. Given the devastation humans are capable of inflicting with their destructive weapons, humans would now be a lot safer if they can keep the aggressive tendencies in check. The fruits of all the advances made in science and technology, can only be enduringly enjoyed when satvik qualities guide the world. We do not have to fight with animals now but with animal tendencies.

Humans could not have survived without compassion and care either (especially care for the young). Humane qualities are also inherent in people; irrespective of country, boundaries, etc. This is aside from the concept of Satvik. The terms Sattva (pure) and Satvik; and the context in which they are used in sanskrit literature, can get contentious.

 

[biswa]

Friends,

In Bhagavat Geetha Lord says "brAnhaNakshathriyaviSAM SUdrANAM cha paraM thapa, karmANi pravi .bhakthAni swabhAva
prabhavairguNAI: " This means we are divided as Brahman, Khathriya, Vaisya and Shudra as per our SWABHAAVA in GUNA THRAYA. A brahmin is categorised so as per his saathvik nature. Are we satvik. Think!.

That is the reason why I told that we are not real brahmins but born in brahmin castes only.

Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

Good question. I think the gunas are more the qualities of an individual than an entire group of people who lay claim to some societal label.

Does a Brahmin have to be born in what is currently defined as the political boundaries of India? Why can't an African man also be sattvik? If somebody like Nelson Mandela exhibits sattvik qualities (though he may not be vegetarian), would he be accepted into the fold? Do not the truths of the Bhagavat Geeta apply to the entire world?

The problem with the original question is that other castes can ask it as well. Then most Kshatriyas will be thinking that they are not exhibiting warrior qualities and may be they have to kill some people to justify their caste.

 

[C RAVI]

Qualified doctors are expected to perform good for taking care of patients well

Qualified lawyers are expected to be competent enough to get justice to his/her client

Qualified teacher is expected to well educate students and be an example of good virtue.


Personal of Armed Forces are expected to be courageous and strong to fight against enemies and safeguard the Nation.


Fishermen are expected to be skilled enough to fish out sufficiently to meed the demands.

etc..etc..etc...


In all the above, there is a respect, recognition and reward depending on how well a person performs.


As well, there will be blames, criticism and even legal cases against the fraudulent/erring individuals into specific activity.


Since the mixture of all the gunas are the inherent nature of the humans and all has its significance to mean a human and human life, no one would be spared with legal consequences or disciplinary actions if found guilty of wrong doing, doing something against the ethics of their profession and something that causes troubles in the society.

Likewise, irrespective of Birth Caste of an individual no one would be spared and let go Scott free, having done something seriously wrong.



A Judge would not be considered wrong/doing sin by rewarding Capital Punishment as per the law of the land to a convicted guilty. A hunter who hunts animals as the only source to fill his family's stomach and for livelihood can not be considered doing wrong. A soldier killing his armed enemy (a fellow human being) is not considered wrong etc.etc.



Anything that is done against one's conscious, against justice, against true need of protection and needs can not qualify one to be on spiritual plane.

And this applies to folks from any caste and creed.


Brahmins by Birth are expected to be much spiritually inclined by avoiding non.veg food, alcohol and narcotics and thus expected to have Sattvik guna predominantly. When a Brahmin by birth is not into this specification, he/she is subjected to question - ARE YOU A REAL BRAHMIN??!??

And, YES such a question makes sense!!

As Shri Sravna has stated, for the existence of a healthy and prosperous Nation/Society Sattvik guna of the humans are the must.

That need not mean that such sattvik humans would be useless to protect their nation, safeguard their interest and live in solidarity, irrespective of the caste and creed they belong to. All that needed among humans is virtue, unity and compassion that can not be attained unless people have that pure and righteous Sattvik guna predominantly.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Try to harm a calf and watch how ferocious the cow - its satvik mother - becomes!
There is more courage in Tolerance, in Silence and in Ahimsa than in
Intolerance, Vociferous shouting and Himsa.
Every living thing wants to protect itself and survive.
But that does not justify its turning dangerous to the others.

 

[renuka]

Brahmins is varna and not caste. Trigunas are found in everyone; brahmins are not necessarily more satvik than others. I, for my part, would like to welcome those who are mentally tuned to brahminical values, to the brahmin fold.

Dear Sarang Ji,

This I really cannot understand?? What is the need to welcome other individuals into the Brahmin fold?

Isn't that an insult to others that others can not exists being good in their own community?

Not everyone might take being welcomed into the Brahmin fold as a compliment..in fact you yourself said that Brahmins are not necessarily more Sattvik than others.

I feel let everyone be themselves..no need to welcome anyone anywhere..as long each human leads a Sattvik life it is more that enough.

After all Lord Krishna does tell to Arjuna that it is better to do one's own Dharma poorly then to do someone else's Dharma well.

 

[P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN]

Dear friends,

I do not like to comment in what you write. However, satvic nature as I have learnt is having a nature as given in the text. When we brahmins interpret every thing to our needs of the day, you may interpret it as you feel. As I have written to one member ' Old order changes yielding place to new.' I also add that we conveniently ignore certain customs and rules.

Regards and NAMASKARAMS,

P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN

 

[sarang]

I do not want to split hair. It is left to the individual; if one wants to become a brahmin and accepted and identified as one, why stop him? There is no compulsion or pressure.

There are countless puranic instances where people get births in different varnas or animals or other beings, in previous or succeeding janmas.

If welcoming is objectionable to you, I am prepared to change to 'no objection'. Some words are very potent.

Dear Sarang Ji,

This I really cannot understand?? What is the need to welcome other individuals into the Brahmin fold?

Isn't that an insult to others that others can not exists being good in their own community?

Not everyone might take being welcomed into the Brahmin fold as a compliment..in fact you yourself said that Brahmins are not necessarily more Sattvik than others.

I feel let everyone be themselves..no need to welcome anyone anywhere..as long each human leads a Sattvik life it is more that enough.

After all Lord Krishna does tell to Arjuna that it is better to do one's own Dharma poorly then to do someone else's Dharma well.

 

[renuka]

I do not want to split hair. It is left to the individual; if one wants to become a brahmin and accepted and identified as one, why stop him? There is no compulsion or pressure.

There are countless puranic instances where people get births in different varnas or animals or other beings, in previous or succeeding janmas.

If welcoming is objectionable to you, I am prepared to change to 'no objection'. Some words are very potent.

Dear Sarang Ji,

Yes..you are right...a host can say Swagatam(Welcome) but it is up to the guest to decide to enter or not.

I still don't get it..why does one need to become a Brahmin if he is not born into a Brahmin Varna?

Going by that can other Varna's too welcome other Varna's to join them?

For example a farmer(Vaisya) welcomes other Varna's(Brahmins,Kshatriyas and Sudras) who have farming skills to join them in partnership for the propagation of the farming culture and officially declare them Vaishyas??

Does this help in anyway to realize God??

So same way..welcoming anyone into any fold be it Brahmana,Kshatriya,Vaisya or Sudra fold has no added value or no loss either.

there is a purpose why everyone of us is born into a community or religion.

Our Karma has 'chosen" the life best suited to us.

Going by that...what is best for us does not necessarily translate as superior or inferior.

It is deemed appropriate.

God has made us to realize Him with the means He has given us.

There is no need to cross over to any community and religion just to realize God.

God is to be realized on our own accord if we really ponder over it.

Even Lord Krishna had said that only Self can uplift Self.

The "Self" Lord Krisha meant does not denote one's community or lifestyle.

Self is being our Inner Self.

Welcoming anyone to any fold does not aid in realizing God..it might just add on the the number of tags and baggage one might need to discard.

We need to respect everyone in his own right..be it from a pauper to a prince.

People need to be valued on the basis of individual merit.

One does not really need to look far to try to realize God..all he has to do is look within..something all of us do but never realize....many track up jungles and hills to get a glimpse of their Ishta Devata's idol but the moment they stand in front of idol they close their eyes and pray.

That is just a normal human reflex to show that God is within.

So as I said earlier...let everyone be themselves..their Inner Self... for Thou is Verily That(Tat Tvam Asi)

 

[sarang]

Without going into the merits or demerits or wider issues, let me add this.

In our village-town of 20K population, a new doctor - a tambram married to a nb started practice. Even though the couple were the couple were initially kept at a distance, there was a gradual acceptance by the brahmin community (the profession perhaps helped); the lady was invited for family religious functions and she became a full brahmin in dress, behaviour and everything else. The assimilation and acceptance was complete; the couple and their children were treated as brahmins by most of the population (b and nb). There was another case of a madwa brahmin lady marrying a nb, parents of a yahoo gita group member; the girl's family accepted the couple, but the boy's side did not. The man too gradually changed to live like a brahmin.

Apart from the gunas, there are anushtanams which keep the tradition alive. A person who wants to become a brahmin, may start with the anushtanams. Esoteric 'tat twam asi' is a different matter.

By the way, our acharyas urge us to keep our eyes open when in front of the murti, and drink in His form, beauty, ornaments, dress and everything one sees and feels.

 

[sangom]

Yes humans could not have survived if they had started with satvik qualities. But satvik qualities are the need of the hour now. Given the devastation humans are capable of inflicting with their destructive weapons, humans would now be a lot safer if they can keep the aggressive tendencies in check. The fruits of all the advances made in science and technology, can only be enduringly enjoyed when satvik qualities guide the world. We do not have to fight with animals now but with animal tendencies.

Dear Shri Sravna,

Does devastation because of destructive weapons, necessarily mean a bad thing in human evolution and the pure shadow play that is this world? If so, how do you justify Krishna urging Arjuna to start a highly destructive war?

 

[renuka]

Without going into the merits or demerits or wider issues, let me add this.

In our village-town of 20K population, a new doctor - a tambram married to a nb started practice. Even though the couple were the couple were initially kept at a distance, there was a gradual acceptance by the brahmin community (the profession perhaps helped); the lady was invited for family religious functions and she became a full brahmin in dress, behaviour and everything else. The assimilation and acceptance was complete; the couple and their children were treated as brahmins by most of the population (b and nb). There was another case of a madwa brahmin lady marrying a nb, parents of a yahoo gita group member; the girl's family accepted the couple, but the boy's side did not. The man too gradually changed to live like a brahmin.

Apart from the gunas, there are anushtanams which keep the tradition alive. A person who wants to become a brahmin, may start with the anushtanams. Esoteric 'tat twam asi' is a different matter.

By the way, our acharyas urge us to keep our eyes open when in front of the murti, and drink in His form, beauty, ornaments, dress and everything one sees and feels.

Dear Sarang ji,

The examples you have given just stressed upon acceptance by inlaws in an intercaste marriage....that is change of lifestyle..and as I said again and again..that has no added value or loss to our spiritual journey.

Those are just mundane day to day "club" requirements..that is for someone to join a club one needs to fulfill certain criteria.

Out here to join the Royal Selangor Club one needs to be of a certain social standing.

So like wise..acceptance by inlaws is like joining a club..some clubs process the application form early and some process the application form later or some delete the application form itself.

So you see spirituality is not about joining a Varna Club..its about how to get into God's Club!

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

God is not only the epitome of intelligence, He is also the epitome of valour and the epitome of prosperity. More importantly He is the saviour of all. As you rightly say, no group is superior to any other group but each is characterized by excess of some godly qualities and lack of some other godly qualities. The world as a stage has been set for interactions and learning from one another. So I think it should be welcome if one group wants to acquire the qualities it lacks by learning from the other groups. So a brahmin can learn something from a vaishya just as a kshatriya can learn something from a brahmin.