Our issue is varna club. Who is talking about lions or rotary or free masons? They too need some qualifications for entry and most important - acceptance.
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We are born in brahmin caste but can we call as real brahmins?
- Thread starter P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN
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renuka
Well-known member
Dear Sravna,
Yes you are right..anyone can learn anything from anyone.
Knowledge is Power and has no boundaries and no Varna.
But there is no need to cross over into any Varna to acquire knowledge.
None of us became Greeks or waited to be accepted into the Greek fold to take the Hippocratic Oath!LOL
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renuka
Well-known member
Exactly!
Who needs a club and a board of directors to determine who is deemed fit or unfit?
That only holds good for the mundane world.
The OP is about Sattva Guna..when we are talking Sattva Guna it is one step away from the state of Nirguna....we eventually need to discard bodily identification..so why add on a new identification?
renuka
Well-known member
Personally I feel only the acceptance by God (not that He rejects!) is what really matters.
By saying we are accept and approve or welcome someone into our fold..that makes it sounds that it is the end point and there is nothing above us.
We can never say that we approve or accept anyone in the technical sense for there is no difference at the Atmic level.
Only one body can accept or reject another body..Atma neither accepts nor rejects for the Atma is ever pure and beyond duality of acceptance and rejection.
By saying we are accept and approve or welcome someone into our fold..that makes it sounds that it is the end point and there is nothing above us.
We can never say that we approve or accept anyone in the technical sense for there is no difference at the Atmic level.
Only one body can accept or reject another body..Atma neither accepts nor rejects for the Atma is ever pure and beyond duality of acceptance and rejection.
sravna
Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,
Krishna's urging Arjuna to fight was not because of the whim of Krishna but because a deadend was reached. The problem I wanted to point out is that destructive weapons in the hands of insane people might bring about the end of the world for absolutely no real reason or no fault of others.
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C RAVI
0
As long as you are living a mundane life as a human you are bound to carry identifications, right from birth till death. You like it not!!
Whatever identifications you carry, carry them with your conscious understanding and sensibility in them. And, ensure that does not create issues with others carrying different identifications.
Open your heart and mind to include others and be inclusive as long as the inclusiveness does not conflict your inner self and does not derail you from your virtue and spirituality.
Whatever identifications you carry, carry them with your conscious understanding and sensibility in them. And, ensure that does not create issues with others carrying different identifications.
Open your heart and mind to include others and be inclusive as long as the inclusiveness does not conflict your inner self and does not derail you from your virtue and spirituality.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Ravi,
If what you say is true...then why we hear the laments of lack of brides for grooms in Forum?
If accepting anyone whose Gunas match our mental make up was so easy..there would be no bachelor lamenting in this forum.
Acceptance is not as easily practiced as it is preached.
Everyone of us have some amount of reservation for full acceptance.
For example some would never considered marriage with a person of a different religion even if he was matching in mental make up cos of an unseen fear that "what if he suddenly turns fanatical and forces his religion on us?"
So you see 100% acceptance is not possible.
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Ravana and many others had destructive weapons. And they were eliminated. That is why it is essential for us, sanatana dharmists, to seek, locate and destroy such people before the initiate any damage.
Now, both US/south korea and north korea have nuclear weapons within hand throw distance. US is clever; only north and south koreans will suffer death and destruction; US will only watch the fun.
Now, both US/south korea and north korea have nuclear weapons within hand throw distance. US is clever; only north and south koreans will suffer death and destruction; US will only watch the fun.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Sarang ji,
???
Now Sanathana Dharmist have to seek,locate and destroy??
That is the work of the Kshatriya Guna(the present day personnel in the armed forces).
But I am curious to know how civilian Sanathana Dharmist are going to do this job?
Are they going to be armed with weapons or try to preach peace "Gangnam Style"(since the talk is all about Korea now!LOL)
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You have given some answers in your posts - what krishna said in gita. Since we live in an age when only kshatriyas have to fight and protect the righteous, it becomes the job of one who joins defense forces or conscripted. There is no confusion. Rest of the population provides material and moral support.
Anyway my post was in response to Shri Sravana's observation on insane people acquiring destructive weapons. We have one close by and another in the making.
Anyway my post was in response to Shri Sravana's observation on insane people acquiring destructive weapons. We have one close by and another in the making.
V
V.Balasubramani
Guest
Sir, The thread is that in Bhagavat Geetha Lord says "brAnhaNakshathriyaviSAM SUdrANAM cha paraM thapa, karmANi pravi .bhakthAni swabhAvaprabhavairguNAI: " This means we are divided as Brahman, Khathriya, Vaisya and Shudra as per our SWABHAAVA in GUNA THRAYA. A brahmin is categorised so as per his saathvik nature. Are we satvik. Think!.IMHO Mahabharatha took place in Dvapara Yugam I believe. And we are now in Kali Yuga, no doubt!!The constitution of India drafted by the great leaders which came into force in 1950 has seen more than ninty changes so far. Things are changing Boss!! Lot of things have changed from our forefathers to our generation, the way of living,thinking, style, food, cloth, etc etc. We don't go to vedhapadasala? How many of us knows the preachings of vedas? What is the duty prescribed in the Veda for Brahmin?. How many of us stick to this? Are we adhereing to the Vedas way of living? So, be good and do good. Live, let live.Om Shanthi
sangom
0
Dear Shri Sravna,
It appears to you now (at the present time, that is) that the destructive weapons are possessed by "insane people" and so you are worried that they may bring about the end of the world for "absolutely no real reason or no fault of others". But we should concede that such "insane" people do run their country well enough and, in addition, they have been able to create and possess the destructive weapons which can bring about " the end of the world". How insane people can achieve such feats?
What difference is there between your today's insane people and those in our epics who were supposed to have performed Thapas and pleased this god or that and got extremely deadly weapons? Were those people also not insane to use such weapons, disregarding the welfare of the world? Did not the war engineered by krishna put an end to a "yuga" itself and made a new beginning or new creation, necessary? Viewed from this pov, I find no difference between the Mahabharata times and today.
Coming to brass tacks, I don't think there will be a war (much less a nuclear war) between the two Koreas. What might happen is N. Korea testing ICBMs against the US, a matter in which China may be very greatly interested! It is very likely that China has supplied these ICBMs also.
tbs
0
hi sir
US is clever;....i dont think so....but China is clever....supplying north korea....want to become mediator.....by threatening
south korea by north korea....just mocking only...so that more bargaining in sanctions.....easy barking method to ease
sanctions against north korea....nobody wants destruction....already had korean wars....i think China is behaving like this...
குழந்தையே கிள்ளி விட்டு .....தொட்டிலெயும் ஆட்டி விடற மாதிரி....
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sravna
Well-known member
Dear Shri Sravna,
It appears to you now (at the present time, that is) that the destructive weapons are possessed by "insane people" and so you are worried that they may bring about the end of the world for "absolutely no real reason or no fault of others". But we should concede that such "insane" people do run their country well enough and, in addition, they have been able to create and possess the destructive weapons which can bring about " the end of the world". How insane people can achieve such feats?
What difference is there between your today's insane people and those in our epics who were supposed to have performed Thapas and pleased this god or that and got extremely deadly weapons? Were those people also not insane to use such weapons, disregarding the welfare of the world? Did not the war engineered by krishna put an end to a "yuga" itself and made a new beginning or new creation, necessary? Viewed from this pov, I find no difference between the Mahabharata times and today.
Coming to brass tacks, I don't think there will be a war (much less a nuclear war) between the two Koreas. What might happen is N. Korea testing ICBMs against the US, a matter in which China may be very greatly interested! It is very likely that China has supplied these ICBMs also.
Dear Shri Sangom,
I am not talking about capabilities when I say "insane". A megalomaniac may be very intelligent but his ambitions are insane. Kindly tell me whether you would treat a murder done in self defence and that which would be considered an offence, as the same? I think the objective matters. Krishna's objective was to make dharma prevail but that is definitely not the case with today's ego driven world.
India always friendly to pakistan
A secret US diplomatic cable released by the whistleblower website WikiLeaks has claimed that the former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi after the success of its first nuclear test in 1974 had written a letter to her Pakistani counterpart Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto offering to share nuclear technology if proper conditions for trust were charted. But Mrs Gandhi’s offer was rejected by Bhutto.
The cables also say Indira Gandhi was evasive about nuclear weaponisation. The cables quote her as saying, “If our scientists have the basic know-how, without which they couldn’t have done this, then any government could have directed them to make a bomb if they had so desired.”
A secret US diplomatic cable released by the whistleblower website WikiLeaks has claimed that the former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi after the success of its first nuclear test in 1974 had written a letter to her Pakistani counterpart Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto offering to share nuclear technology if proper conditions for trust were charted. But Mrs Gandhi’s offer was rejected by Bhutto.
The cables also say Indira Gandhi was evasive about nuclear weaponisation. The cables quote her as saying, “If our scientists have the basic know-how, without which they couldn’t have done this, then any government could have directed them to make a bomb if they had so desired.”
Sangom in post #36:
In the highly nuanced international diplomatic language, the firing of ICBM at US will be interpreted as an attack on that country and N.Korea will be wiped out from the face of the earth even if the ICBMs were not nuclear tipped. China knows this and so will not allow NK to go that far. It is all Sabre rattling that is going on now and it will end soon with some placatory statements from both sides and each claiming victory. China knows the Lakshman Rekha which it will not cross. The lakshman rekha is there in the matter of Taiwan and it is there in the matter of SK too. China will never dare to disturb the status quo forcibly neither in Taiwan nor in the Korean peninsula.
Cheers.
In the highly nuanced international diplomatic language, the firing of ICBM at US will be interpreted as an attack on that country and N.Korea will be wiped out from the face of the earth even if the ICBMs were not nuclear tipped. China knows this and so will not allow NK to go that far. It is all Sabre rattling that is going on now and it will end soon with some placatory statements from both sides and each claiming victory. China knows the Lakshman Rekha which it will not cross. The lakshman rekha is there in the matter of Taiwan and it is there in the matter of SK too. China will never dare to disturb the status quo forcibly neither in Taiwan nor in the Korean peninsula.
Cheers.
S
Sastri
Guest
Why has the discussion digressed from the Title of the Thread?
I am putting this down here believing that it will add value to the discussion at hand:
Dividing life into sacred and secular, work and worship, the active life and the contemplative life is artificial and a waste of time. Aspirants who look upon their prayer time as sacred and all other time as secular only practice self-deception. What they accomplish during prayer and meditation is negated by what they do at other times. The art of karma yoga is to integrate our whole life by spiritualizing all our duties. The duty of one person need not be the duty of another since the inner disposition of the one is different from the other. The soldier who abandons his duties and impulsively takes up the contemplative life of an ascetic becomes a misfit and a false ascetic who suppresses the outgoing senses without first conquering internal desires. He is a hypocrite. Bhagavad-Gita exhorts:
Better is one’s own dharma, though imperfectly performed, than the dharma of another well performed. Better is death in the doing of one’s own dharma; the dharma of another is fraught with peril.
Mature living is integrated. All the priorities of life should be subordinated to one single goal. The most worthy and mature goal of life is God-realization.
Mature living involves even-mindedness in pain and pleasure.
Mature living is neither aggressive nor defensive.
Mature living is spontaneous and authentic, conscious and creative, free from any dependence.
Mature living is sAtvika living. sAtvika living is marked by balance, efficiency and joy. Our inner disposition consists of our moods, temperament, instincts and desires, which unconsciously impel us to act in certain ways. This inner disposition though inherited to a certain extent , is constantly altered by our actions and choices. Any action that is consciously done today becomes an unconscious impulse tomorrow; any mood or desire that is allowed to be repeated becomes part of our character/values system.
Bhagavad Gita (BG) describes in general three types of inner dispositions: rajasika (adolescent), tamasika(infantile) and sAtvika(mature).
Rajasika persons are generally restless and adolescent like. They are full of ambitions, concerned with gain and loss,beset with innumerable anxieties, and bound by a hundred ties of hopes and expectations. They are usually under the control of fluctuating emotions and moods. They tend to make decisions before deliberating to regret it later. In their spiritual quest too rajasika persons seek fulfillment of their desires. They are most interested in artha and kama.
Tamasika living is generally delusional and infantile. A tamasic disposition is dull, brooding and inactive. Tamasic individuals drift aimlessly and procrastinate endlessly. Their spiritual practices are sometimes based on occultism or dognmatism.
sAtvika individuals are free from egotism and utilitarian motives, even minded under all circumstances, endowed with efficiency, enthusiasm and discrimination. Such persons are guided by an illumined budhdhi or intellect which sees persons and things in un ity. For such individuals all other goals are subordinated to the goal of god realization.
BG extols the cultivation of sAtvika attitude towards action.
Brahmins because of their genetic make up are programmed to be sAtvik most of the time. Cultivating a sAtvik attitude becomes easier for a Brahmin for this reason. A Brahmin, under the control of his gunas, if allows himself to deviate from the path of sAtvika living which is natural to him as a swadharma, he alone will be responsible for that and that self-mutilation can not be blamed on any one else.
Brahmins genetic make up has its origins in centuries of discipline and the resultant cultural impact on the genes. When there is an intercaste/inter race marriage it becomes a compromise in which the genes are remixed and put back by a few centuries as far as the genetic make up is concerned.
Disclaimer: Please note that the word Brahmin used here indicates only the name of a social grouping. No higer/lower or superior/inferior connotations are indicated. All Atmas are equal but they are created/endowed with differently. So it is my view that caste atrocities and discriminations are the handiwork of the political class.
Cheers.
Dividing life into sacred and secular, work and worship, the active life and the contemplative life is artificial and a waste of time. Aspirants who look upon their prayer time as sacred and all other time as secular only practice self-deception. What they accomplish during prayer and meditation is negated by what they do at other times. The art of karma yoga is to integrate our whole life by spiritualizing all our duties. The duty of one person need not be the duty of another since the inner disposition of the one is different from the other. The soldier who abandons his duties and impulsively takes up the contemplative life of an ascetic becomes a misfit and a false ascetic who suppresses the outgoing senses without first conquering internal desires. He is a hypocrite. Bhagavad-Gita exhorts:
Better is one’s own dharma, though imperfectly performed, than the dharma of another well performed. Better is death in the doing of one’s own dharma; the dharma of another is fraught with peril.
Mature living is integrated. All the priorities of life should be subordinated to one single goal. The most worthy and mature goal of life is God-realization.
Mature living involves even-mindedness in pain and pleasure.
Mature living is neither aggressive nor defensive.
Mature living is spontaneous and authentic, conscious and creative, free from any dependence.
Mature living is sAtvika living. sAtvika living is marked by balance, efficiency and joy. Our inner disposition consists of our moods, temperament, instincts and desires, which unconsciously impel us to act in certain ways. This inner disposition though inherited to a certain extent , is constantly altered by our actions and choices. Any action that is consciously done today becomes an unconscious impulse tomorrow; any mood or desire that is allowed to be repeated becomes part of our character/values system.
Bhagavad Gita (BG) describes in general three types of inner dispositions: rajasika (adolescent), tamasika(infantile) and sAtvika(mature).
Rajasika persons are generally restless and adolescent like. They are full of ambitions, concerned with gain and loss,beset with innumerable anxieties, and bound by a hundred ties of hopes and expectations. They are usually under the control of fluctuating emotions and moods. They tend to make decisions before deliberating to regret it later. In their spiritual quest too rajasika persons seek fulfillment of their desires. They are most interested in artha and kama.
Tamasika living is generally delusional and infantile. A tamasic disposition is dull, brooding and inactive. Tamasic individuals drift aimlessly and procrastinate endlessly. Their spiritual practices are sometimes based on occultism or dognmatism.
sAtvika individuals are free from egotism and utilitarian motives, even minded under all circumstances, endowed with efficiency, enthusiasm and discrimination. Such persons are guided by an illumined budhdhi or intellect which sees persons and things in un ity. For such individuals all other goals are subordinated to the goal of god realization.
BG extols the cultivation of sAtvika attitude towards action.
Brahmins because of their genetic make up are programmed to be sAtvik most of the time. Cultivating a sAtvik attitude becomes easier for a Brahmin for this reason. A Brahmin, under the control of his gunas, if allows himself to deviate from the path of sAtvika living which is natural to him as a swadharma, he alone will be responsible for that and that self-mutilation can not be blamed on any one else.
Brahmins genetic make up has its origins in centuries of discipline and the resultant cultural impact on the genes. When there is an intercaste/inter race marriage it becomes a compromise in which the genes are remixed and put back by a few centuries as far as the genetic make up is concerned.
Disclaimer: Please note that the word Brahmin used here indicates only the name of a social grouping. No higer/lower or superior/inferior connotations are indicated. All Atmas are equal but they are created/endowed with differently. So it is my view that caste atrocities and discriminations are the handiwork of the political class.
Cheers.
sangom
0
Dear Shri Sravna,
After the Kurukshetra war, what kind of dharma was prevailing? Only Parikshit lived and was given the throne but he also was adharmic and got cursed by a sage. He died of snake-bite, despite yet another dose of religious text in the form of Bhagavatham. This shows how ineffective such texts are entirely useless.
Even Krishna's own clan, the yadavas grew arrogant and wicked. They began to insult the sages. They began to think that they were unequalled in strength and that no one could check them. As a result they were cursed by a sage that the yadava clan itself would perish by the child born of Samba (krishna's son)'s garbha. A wooden pestle was born and it became the ultimate weapon of destruction for the whole yadu/vrishni clan. (I have left out details.)
Now, you think whether a person who cannot ensure the so-called "Dharma" within one's own household or clan could really have been able to make the Dharma prevail in the rest of the world? Don't you see that Vyasa himself has left enough evidence to show that Krishna was not establishing any Dharma but was only ensuring a war between the powerful kuru siblings which will completely exterminate them (the Kurus) so that the yadava clan would not have to fear any kingdoms more powerful than themselves? This exactly was what made the yadavas arrogant but no yadava was probably as gullible as Arjuna and that was why Krishna did not dare to boast of his superhuman ability to any one of them!
The religious believers still go on parroting whatever is told by religious preachers so that krishna will be god and people will contribute to religion and temples.
It is not enough to be born in a brahmin family to qualify as a Brahmin. One needs to practice his / her life like a brahmin does. If not, then we cannot call oursekves Brahmins. For example, whatever may be the stress, pressure, lack of time, one should be able to fine time to do Trikala Sandhya Vandanam. I urge all Fathers to practice this and preach their children to do this.
Sangom's post #43:
What Sravna meant is this:
I know the dynamics of exothermic reactions involving many chemicals. I also know the dynamics of the wave front that emanates from such reactions. I can use this knowledge to build a powerful bomb which can release a lot of destructive energy. I can teach this to many interested students and prepare a Taliban like group to be let loose in the midst of heavily populated cities. But I am not doing any of this because I am sAtvik. It is against my basic value system. There are others who do that because they are either rajasic or tamasic. The people who dropped the 'bomb' on the innocent population in Hiroshima were people with knowledge combined with rajasic qualities. That is an explosive mixture. Krishna took part in a war in which the evil had to be defeated. It is a different kettle altogether. I am not going into the details here.
Cheers.
.
What Sravna meant is this:
I know the dynamics of exothermic reactions involving many chemicals. I also know the dynamics of the wave front that emanates from such reactions. I can use this knowledge to build a powerful bomb which can release a lot of destructive energy. I can teach this to many interested students and prepare a Taliban like group to be let loose in the midst of heavily populated cities. But I am not doing any of this because I am sAtvik. It is against my basic value system. There are others who do that because they are either rajasic or tamasic. The people who dropped the 'bomb' on the innocent population in Hiroshima were people with knowledge combined with rajasic qualities. That is an explosive mixture. Krishna took part in a war in which the evil had to be defeated. It is a different kettle altogether. I am not going into the details here.
Cheers.
renuka
Well-known member
Sattvagunamayi is a better terminology I feel.
The soldiers from the land of the rising sun used to torture civilians during their reign in then Malaya(Malaysia).
They used to fling babies in the air and pierce them with their bayonets and tortured and beheaded countless civilians.
People who did not bow down to them when they walked were either beheaded or made to eat dog's fecal matter.
So I guess sometimes we reap what we sow.
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Temperate language is requested. EVR followers are in the minority and dare not throw insults even when majority are quiet. Anyway DK descendants have become bhaktimans and contribute to pujas, kumbhabhishekam and daily upkeep of various temples in the hope that that their parents and forefathers who were blasphemous will be relieved of their sins. I hope your future generations will do the same.
In war everyone becomes cranky. The japanese were very cruel to koreans and people of occupied territory. Aswattama too lost his head and killed the whole clan.
Only india was different. It treated well the 90000 pakistani prisoners of war and provided a safe passage to pakistan without getting anything in return; indian prisoners were never returned by pakistan.
Only india was different. It treated well the 90000 pakistani prisoners of war and provided a safe passage to pakistan without getting anything in return; indian prisoners were never returned by pakistan.
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