Wedding between Tamil Brahmin and Seer Karuneegar

[Raji Ram]

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......... Deiviga kadhal does not mean I see my wife only as a goddess. .......

Dear Sravna Sir,

It is mostly wanted in the other way!
Is it not said 'kaNavanE kaN kaNda deivam!' ?? :hail:

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


There is only one way to find out!LOL

Dear Renuka,

The other way is to use your mind to know the truth.

 

[Raji Ram]

Renu doesn't mean that, Sravna Sir! :lol:

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna Sir,

It is mostly wanted in the other way!
Is it not said 'kaNavanE kaN kaNda deivam!' ?? :hail:

Dear RRji,

The satisfactory solution is to have it both the ways.

 

[Raji Ram]

Some modern girls are very brave and check the compatibility in everything, before the wedding! :dizzy:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RRji,

The satisfactory solution is to have it both the ways.

ayyoo Sravna Sir!

appO nijamAna Swami kumbida nEramE irukkAdhE!!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

1. Why? :no idea: But why Maash wants to wear a madisAr saree when she knows very well that Hindu marriages are performed

as per the groom's side?

2. They can, ONLY if they arrange themselves and invite their parents for their wedding - be it in a wedding hall / registered office!

Dear RR ji,

Madisar is a method of tying a saree..so what is the objection to tie a saree anyway we like?

These days out here for pre wedding photo shoot..couple don various styles ..couple takes pic even in Madisar and Grammam(Village) style just for fun and also wearing clothes of other religions in their photo shoot.


Even when I got married..I tied this way for the wedding..(before I was given the main saree)

and then when I had to change into another saree I tied this way.

I tied the saree in 2 ways for the wedding.

 

[sarang]

Tide is turning or what? The parents must have married for love to go for intercaste marriage with or without the approval of their parents. The boy obviously does not want to chart his marital bliss on his own and expects parents to arrange the wedlock. Foreign qualifications, MNC and fat salary hasn't civilized him, it seems.

marriage of children become a big issue . communities of both parents do not like inter caste . My close relative a brahmin girl is unable to find a match from both her community and that of her NB husband . the boy is highly educated ,foreign qualified working in MNC with a fat salary .

 

[renuka]

Some modern girls are very brave and check the compatibility in everything, before the wedding! :dizzy:

Dear RR ji,

A test drive is not really required..one can feel it!

 

[sravna]

ayyoo Sravna Sir!

appO nijamAna Swami kumbida nEramE irukkAdhE!!

Dear RRji,

no problem. We know nijamana swami will not react.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

The other way is to use your mind to know the truth.

Yes Sravna...from the mental inputs hormones come into play.

Everything starts from the Mind...hence we are Manava(the ones with the mind).

 

[renuka]

Renu doesn't mean that, Sravna Sir! :lol:

Sravna has no idea what I have in mind!LOL

 

[sarang]

Recent rajani's daughter's wedding. He was in kannada style, lataji with iyengar madisar, the young couple in panchakatcham and madisar(not sure iyer or iyengar). From memory, will see the video if there is counter view.

Dear Renu,

1. Why? :no idea: But why Maash wants to wear a madisAr saree when she knows very well that Hindu marriages are performed

as per the groom's side?

2. They can, ONLY if they arrange themselves and invite their parents for their wedding - be it in a wedding hall / registered office!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

FYI, madisAr saree for the bride and panchakachcham for the groom are to be tied ONLY on the wedding day and not before that!

Elderly mAmis will help the bride and the sAsthigaL will help the groom (and take dhakshaNai for that service!).

But who cares for all these now a days? They consider it only as a costume! I felt really bad when some small kids tied the madisAr

and danced in a singing competition! And tiny tots wear panchakachcham type dhoti for fun!

See here:

Picture courtesy: Google images.

 

[krish44]

Hence there is a separate category as IC parents in '*******' matrimony charts !

RRJi
Thanks I am aware. only I do not want proliferation of castes. two are enough for one small family. no sense in adding more

these types of boys should exercise their brains and choice to find a suitable spouse . they can exhibit some of the enterprise shown by their parents when they married

intercaste. what is the point in getting foreign degrees if they are incapable to find a match for themselves? this can happen only in indian orthodox society.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Namaskaram to all!
I am tamil brahmin iyer girl. I like a guy who is not a brahmin. He belongs to a caste called the Karuneegar/Seer Karuneegar Pillai and he belongs to Janaka Maharishi gothram.

I read that Karuneegars are from Kayasthas lineage and that they belong to both brahmin and kshatriya varnas. So can I consider him as a brahmin. Will he be eligible to wear a poonal during our wedding?

I am usually not a person who is so much into castes but this would really help when I am talking to my parents regarding the same.

My mom says if I marry a person who is not a brahmin, I lose my brahmin status and that I am not even allowed to wear madissar ( which is one of my favorite attire ).

Any insights would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Maash

Dear "Maash",

Love and marriage are personal affairs of individuals. They have to decide on the pros and cons by themselves.
Seeking advice of others is purely academic.

Well, your mother is correct. Brahmins follow patriarchal lineage in our tradition and religious system. Thus
the caste of the wife loses its relevance when she marries a person of different caste. Children born out of
this wedlock will take after Father's Caste.

As for Seer Karuneegars, you are correct. They are known as Kayathas (Kayastha Brahmanas) who are considered Brahma-Kshatriyas in Northern India. They follow all Vedic traditions of Brahmins including "upanayanam". Professionally they are scribes and accountants or Kariyasthars of Governments.

Wishing you well,

Brahanmyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Maash]

Namaskaram to all!

I would first like to thank all those who replied for their valuable comments. It really means a lot to me.

I would also like to clarify one thing here. My guy does not really mind wearing a poonal or panchakacham and get married in our style. He love our style wedding and traditions and he knows how much I love them. His parents are also cool with it. Infact his mom would wear a madissar if I insist.

I wanted to get some insights on it as my mom said that I should not be wearing a madissar if I get married out of the caste. She also mentions that none of my relatives would include me in any of the auspicious things that we do like, pondugal or devasam and all. Eventhough I know for a fact that no one would do like that and I also will not care if people ignore me. It hurts a lot when my mom says such stuffs.

I am not able bear a few things that my mother sometimes says. I have asked her several times, whether that prestige was so important to her than what I want in life. She simply says, I dont want to put my family down for you. You need to give up is what she says. I just cannot take these anymore.

I need some suggestions to convince my mother and family without hurting them. Kindly help.

Also there is one more thing that needs clarification. It is whether my guy will be able to or eligible to wear poonal during our wedding. Can we do it without the poonal or if he wears a poonal how do things work from there? My mom asked 'avanala oru achamaneyam panna mudiyuma nu? ' He is even ready to learn all those. Where should we start? Please help.

And also he says that he will not stop me from following my rituals and culture. He says that he would love to be a part of the poojas and rituals that I perform.

Thanks in advance.

Regards
Maash

 

[[email protected]]

Dear Maash,

From your email, you are convinced with the person whom you want to marry (if your own belief and thoughts state that I shall get married to a confirmed brahmin only for all purposes, then the queries have validity). Secondly, if this query is only for the purposes of convincing the parents and taking them along and endorse your choice, that will be difficult only if your parents are adamant on a brahmin groom (which in this case, not going to happen) - the reason being in a case like this is, there is nothing called EQUIVALENT (may be Karuneegar pillai status is above brahminism - in such a case, the groom will be posting a query like this). In a word, if you are convinced, you should get married to him even if you have only a jeans & t shirt... But getting convinced is the only issue here hence LIFE DON'T END WITH A MARRIAGE...

 

[Maash]

Namaskaram to all!

I would first like to thank all those who replied for my query with their great thoughts. It really helped me a lot.

I would like to mention that there is absolutely no objection from my guy or his family to get married in our (tambrahm) style. He would wear a poonal and panchakacham also.

The question here is, now that he is okay to wear a poonal, what would be the procedure to get it done. Can he wear one right before the wedding and can he remove it afterwards (I know it is maha paavam to remove and wear poonal like that). But still if such a situation arises in the future, is it okay to do that. Please help.

I would also need some tips to convince my parents in a legitimate way. They should not think I am forcing them. They should understand that I have made the right choice. Why I am asking this is, some of you here would definitely be in my parents age and I would want to know what you would expect if your daughter runs into a similar situation and bring a non brahmin boy. This will really help me.

Thank you all again for all the help!

I truly appreciate!

Regards
Maash

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear "Maash",

Well, your mother is correct. Brahmins follow patriarchal lineage in our tradition and religious system. Thus
the caste of the wife loses its relevance when she marries a person of different caste. Children born out of
this wedlock will take after Father's Caste.

Not only in Brahmins, in all castes and religions it is only patriarchal system only. I think former US President Bill Clinton's (Protestant) daughter married a Jew. I think the marriage was performed per Jewish customs.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear all above veterens, Let me take this opportunity to objectively & critically analyse Basic & practical aspects involved in marrying Non- brahmin Boys. duly giving weight to the few who have given their thoughtful opinions above.
#2 ) Kuvalayavalli has almost given a judgement & encouraged outright , implying , given a chance all Brahmin girls can follow, ?
#3 )Older person Krish 44 has the practical experience himself & practically analised, with out unnecessarily encouraging marriage outside our race,causing Ill-will to parents & overall bad example to mother similar placed educated girls.
# 6 ) Jaykay/67 :- says righly that the kids would be badly affected & will not hesitate to point an ACCUSING finger oh the Mother.She may realise her FOLLy toolate & will there be a Remedy ? I say No
#8 0TKS:- Has talked both ways, stressing that, if Infatuation remains despite analzing & answering to yourself that I SHALL Marry him only ( I doubt / Infatuation created by the NB will vanish,only after starting the real life with both families & the Society, for couple of years.

My Considered thoughts after knowing a number of such cases in the last 5 to 7 years cases referred to my wife/ astrologer, is as follows :-
Young , intelligent, boistrous young girls, nay , Women,can think of avoiding such a situation before getting involved , duly thinking of parents & well-wishers.
What is thought as Love is not the Love we all understand for Long full life happiness .Sensual instict come up with the two guys (b & NB ) is maily sensual & if both live separatef for some time with no contacts would get the chance to realise the FOLLY or confirm LOVE
Sincerely,
Rishikesan ( A. Srinivasan)

 

[Vaagmi]

O.P by Maash.
Any insights would be very helpful.

I am tamil brahmin iyer girl. I like a guy who is not a brahmin. He belongs to a caste called the Karuneegar/Seer Karuneegar Pillai and he belongs to Janaka Maharishi gothram. I read that Karuneegars are from Kayasthas lineage and that they belong to both brahmin and kshatriya varnas. So can I consider him as a brahmin. Will he be eligible to wear a poonal during our wedding?

Why did you find out his caste in the first place? So he is tracing his ancestry to some Janaka Mahrshi of yore and that satisfies you because it rather balances the equation which somehow remains unbalanced in your heart of heart? A karuneegar will remain a karuneegar just as a Brahmin will remain ever a Brahmin (no superiority - inferiority binary here). Why bother about the lineage? Who said a poonal is equal to brahminhood? It is not. A poonal can be worn by anyone of the three castes in hindu religion.

I am usually not a person who is so much into castes but this would really help when I am talking to my parents regarding the same. My mom says if I marry a person who is not a brahmin, I lose my brahmin status and that I am not even allowed to wear madissar ( which is one of my favorite attire).

Dear young lady, you are confused because of the tyranny of the hormones and pheromones. Usually for a girl of your age, the values formed over a period of time from childhood to adulthood when you lived with your parents, relatives, elders and peers come to help in such times of extreme dilemma. Unfortunately it appears you are not fortunate to have such an “auto immune” system in place. Yes, if you marry as you plan, you would not be a Brahmin. You can wear any dress you want including any madisar-the iyer version, Iyengar version or any other version as madisar is only symbolic of a Brahmin married woman. There is no bar for anyother woman wearing it. And in the serious matter of marriage which you are toying with madisar is rather in the outermost shell of the periphery. Marriage and family are far more serious matters than a piece of cloth worn and discarded.

Now my suggestion would be:

1. When you go for an intercaste marriage you are taking a huge risk because you are ignoring several time tested principles and tradition. You are causing so much anxiety and pain to your near and dear ones. If marriage is for living together with a man and having a family with children, you do not know what kind of monsters you would be creating by your action because it is unfathomable depth and an unknown territory. Play safe. Have a detailed dialogue with your mother and father. Understand that they will suffer the pain silently and may go with your decision if you turn out to be adamant.
2. Think well and take advice from a close friend who has your welfare in her/his mind.
3. If after all this, you are still going to marry as you want, go ahead and do that. Brahmins can live as brahmins without you. If you ever regret your this decision, tell others in your friends circle not to follow your path. Best wishes.

My comments on other views expressed here will follow.

 

[Vaagmi]

Kuvalayavalli in #2

You are marrying a Human Being, a Man. You are not marrying a caste, tradition, religion etc.

Human being A (HB-A): Gets out of office. It is already late in the evening and it is dark. Gets into the car behind the wheels and starts for home. As it nears the home a cat darts across the road as seen in the beam of light. A thud and the HB-A applies the break, gets down and looks for the hurt cat. No cat is seen. HB-A gets behind the wheel again and drives home slowly and reaches home. Tells mother and father and feels sorry for the cat. Spends a sleepless night wondering what would have happened to that street cat.

Human being B (HB-B): It is a holiday and so our HB-B is at home. There are a few chickens chirruping and picking whatever worms they get and chasing each other and playing in the backyard of the house. HB-B watches the chickens and is lost in the playful antics of them. Our HB-B fetches some grains and feeds the chickens and derive satisfaction in the process. Now comes the command from the kitchen, “Oye HB-B!! get a chicken and bring it ready for cooking. It is getting late”. Our HB-B runs after one of the chicks and catches it, separates the life and body by a twist of the neck of the chick, defeathers it methodically in a machine and brings it to the kitchen and hands it over to mother. Sitting in the dinner table , the HB-B asks for the leg piece and relishes it too.

When a girl/boy marry she/he marries not only a human being but also a lot of baggage that comes with the human being and will have to live with it for the rest of the life because you do not marry every day. HB-A and HB-B are human beings alright but from different backgrounds with different baggage. There can be serious problem and life may become one unbearable hell if a mistake is committed in choosing the right HB with the right background and baggage. Religion, caste, tradition, values etc are names of baggage and background.

Talks about losing-brahmin-status do not make any sense.

It perhaps make sense to Maash.

 

[tks]

Dear all above veterens, Let me take this opportunity to objectively & critically analyse Basic & practical aspects involved in marrying Non- brahmin Boys. duly giving weight to the few who have given their thoughtful opinions above.
#2 ) Kuvalayavalli has almost given a judgement & encouraged outright , implying , given a chance all Brahmin girls can follow, ?
#3 )Older person Krish 44 has the practical experience himself & practically analised, with out unnecessarily encouraging marriage outside our race,causing Ill-will to parents & overall bad example to mother similar placed educated girls.
# 6 ) Jaykay/67 :- says righly that the kids would be badly affected & will not hesitate to point an ACCUSING finger oh the Mother.She may realise her FOLLy toolate & will there be a Remedy ? I say No
#8 0TKS:- Has talked both ways, stressing that, if Infatuation remains despite analzing & answering to yourself that I SHALL Marry him only ( I doubt / Infatuation created by the NB will vanish,only after starting the real life with both families & the Society, for couple of years.

My Considered thoughts after knowing a number of such cases in the last 5 to 7 years cases referred to my wife/ astrologer, is as follows :-
Young , intelligent, boistrous young girls, nay , Women,can think of avoiding such a situation before getting involved , duly thinking of parents & well-wishers.
What is thought as Love is not the Love we all understand for Long full life happiness .Sensual instict come up with the two guys (b & NB ) is maily sensual & if both live separatef for some time with no contacts would get the chance to realise the FOLLY or confirm LOVE
Sincerely,
Rishikesan ( A. Srinivasan)

Sri Srinivasan

It seems you have mischarecterized what I stated to the young lady who posed the question.

Best is to just state what you have in mind

 

[Vaagmi]

Krish44 in #3

my wifes colleague ,a UP kayasth married a tamil iyengar with all tamil iyengar rituals. both of them have been married 30 plus years. she wore madisar sree vaishnavite style and their children carry traditional iyengar names. I am an iyengar , my daughter married a telugu iyer she wears separate three thalis as per tradions of both tamil iyengar and telugu brahmins. in fact her neck is full of thaalis of various types. most ladies hang their thaalis on bed stand at home after marriage . how many wear it all the time. I am sure you would not wear madisar except at the time of marriage or a few special occasions at my sons wedding , the girls side wore madisar iyer style as they were iyers and my side iyengar style all these are not much relevant

All these instances are people lost to an alien way of living. They are unfortunate to have floundered and blundered their way into unknown territory. They need not be taken as bellwether and given respectability because Brahmins are not sheeps.